Jail time?

[DeltaBound]

this happened in Texas last year.....


http://cbs11tv.com/pets/fish.tale.lead.2.1632321.html


Kentucky...........


http://www.parislanding.com/bass_cheaters_63006.htm



You would think there will be a full investigation to include all of Mike's partners.

[DL]

This is California...if there is no way for the county or the state to generate revenue from a prosecution, they won't bother with it. I would be very suprised if anything else(other than what WON Bass is doing) comes out of this whole mess....

[bigdawg1584]

This did not happen in California. It happened in Neveda.

[DL]

This did not happen in California. It happened in Neveda.

I know..and I should have clarified that I am talking about the local So Cal guys that are looking to get him on charges he ripped them off. My sentiments are the same for the State of Nevada..plus it happened at a National Park. And for lack of a better term, the Feds have bigger fish to fry...

[Tin Can]

He didn't win anything at the tourney he was caught, so he's really not going to get in that much trouble. What can they get him for? Attempted theft and fraud?

[keithcant]

Not being a Nevada prosecutor....but, still I doubt Nev, nor the Fed's have a specific statute for Bass Tournament Cheating.

However, theft charges...or in The US Open situation attempted theft charges at best should be filed.

As a note to TDs....I suggest you allow things to play through to the point of completing the theft....i.e. paying the THIEF (cheater).

In most jurisdictions attempted crimes only carry 1/2 of the punishment of the completed crime. Bringing things to a close in the parking lot rather than after payment @ the Awards Banquet equated to assuring just an attempted theft rather than a full-fledged theft.

And just consider how 'sweet' and fullfilling ----needless to say --the message sent out if the cheater was paid and then simultaneously law enforcement made an on-the-spot arrest for Grand Theft (or however they would term it in nevada lingo)

As far as Felony or Misdemeanor handling will be based on the $$amt. involved as well as prior criminal record.

It looks like WON did a commendable job however taking a circumstantial case and then making it clear with admissions from the thief.
Just the inter-net jabbering has awoken many to cheating and a clearer realization that it is going on in the events we fish.
(I'd like to think for every one caught--a hundred more get scared away. However until a 'partner' is implicated....I would stay away from rumor-mongering and realized defamation can be a reality)

[TomAtkeson]

Damn, that guy from texas shoved a 1lb weight down that fishes throat!

[cib11b]

He didn't win anything at the tourney he was caught, so he's really not going to get in that much trouble. What can they get him for? Attempted theft and fraud?

CA laws are about the intent. The execusion are not always a need to convict.

[N.A.R]

Its only a few miles from Vegas, I am sure they deal with plenty of cheaters at the Casinos. This should go pretty smoothly......

[Greg_Cornish]

I bet sticking lead inside an animal is a crime in most states.

[RangerDude]

he may not see much if any jail time but the punishment will go on for years...... imagine his kids coming home and saying " dad the kids at school were calling you a cheater, thief, criminal " or walking through the grocery store/mall and hearing the whispers of " that's him the cheater ". Enduring years of embarrassment and ridicule.

[MikeSouza]

This guys fishing career is OVER to say the least. He was caught cheating and will pay for his actions. It may or may not result in fines/jail time, but his tournament days are over with. Robby Rose was caught in Texas sticking a weight in a fish. He got jail time, fines and will never fish another tournament under his "REAL" name again. The family of the cheaters will pay also.

[rmbumpus]

Western Outdoor News is a California based company. The suspect and the victim entered into a contract when the suspect entered the event by paying entry fees and agreed to the rules and acknowleged knowing the rules in California. Thus unless the suspect payed his entry in Nevada, California laws apply and he should be prosecuted in the California county in which Won Bass is located. This is especially true if done over the telephone. If either party is located in California.

The crime was completed when the fish were handed to the weigh master. For every crime there must be act and intent. That can be taken on face value in a simple case as this.

The following laws apply:

484. (a) Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry,
lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft. In
determining the value of the property obtained, for the purposes of
this section, the reasonable and fair market value shall be the test,
and in determining the value of services received the contract price
shall be the test. If there be no contract price, the reasonable and
going wage for the service rendered shall govern. For the purposes
of this section, any false or fraudulent representation or pretense
made shall be treated as continuing, so as to cover any money,
property or service received as a result thereof, and the complaint,
information or indictment may charge that the crime was committed on
any date during the particular period in question. The hiring of any
additional employee or employees without advising each of them of
every labor claim due and unpaid and every judgment that the employer
has been unable to meet shall be prima facie evidence of intent to
defraud

489. Grand theft is punishable as follows:
(a) When the grand theft involves the theft of a firearm, by
imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months, 2, or 3 years.
(b) In all other cases, by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year or in the state prison.

487. Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases:
(a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is
of a value exceeding four hundred dollars ($400) except as provided in subdivision (b).

[rmbumpus]

This also applies:
597. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (c) of this section or
Section 599c, every person who maliciously and intentionally maims,
mutilates, tortures, or wounds a living animal, or maliciously and
intentionally kills an animal, is guilty of an offense punishable by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by a fine of not more than
twenty thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and
imprisonment, or, alternatively, by imprisonment in a county jail for
not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than twenty
thousand dollars ($20,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

[Guest]

A good lawyer will get him probation no money change hands so all you have is cheating charge there not much he'll get for that its not like he killed somebody past tournaments winnings well be throwin out of court that will be automatic. If won bass wants too save them selfs alot of money and time in court they'll just make sure he banned for life. A real good lawer will just keep getting it postponed and causing wonbass to spend more money and time than its worth.

[snapitoff2002]

Eye for an Eye...

Stuff a lead weight down his throat, and see how he likes a hook in the gut? I'm still pissed about the fish themselves...

[Scott Robertson]

well i just hope whatever he gets is enough to detour other people from trying it, and that he never fishes another sanctioned tournament again. I have my own thoughts on what he should get but i am not the law or the courts. Lets hope they do their jobs. Scott

[WackySenko]

I like the idea that Snapitoff2002 has.
How does this look.

Fish: 4 pounds - Lead weight shoved down throat: 1 ounce
To make it equal
Mike: 200 pounds - Lead weight to shove down his throat: 4 Pounds +
Fish and Mike's weights are a guess, but it looks only fair.

[Phil Burgess]

someone find out if there are any ca. condors near the lakes he did this on............. oh fish and game could go wild............lol

[Bass Pro Shopper]

I'm sure there's an animal cruelty charge in here on top of anything else he's slapped with.

[davet.]

I like the idea that Snapitoff2002 has.
How does this look.

Fish: 4 pounds - Lead weight shoved down throat: 1 ounce
To make it equal
Mike: 200 pounds - Lead weight to shove down his throat: 4 Pounds +
Fish and Mike's weights are a guess, but it looks only fair.

If he does jail time, I'm sure his throat would easily accomodate a 4 pound weight in no time!!

[Nitro5150]

thats funny stuff.

[DanWarme]

I posted this on another thread but it applies here as well so I am reposting with some relevant additions and revisions to the current topic:


I am no lawyer, but I do know something about it and would like to clarify. There is a criminal matter and a civil matter.

For the criminal matter, which is what is being contemplated in this case, and to all potential cheaters out there, take note:
You can be charged with the crime of fraud for cheating in a fishing tournament. Anglers have been successfully prosecuted for doing so when they get caught and face possible jail or prison time. Anglers have been lead off the stage in handcuffs elswhere.

In this particular case, since Mike was DQ'd, he did not commit fraud as he never got any money or profited from his act. If it was WON"s intent to procecute this incident, they would have been far better served by letting Mike accept a check, and then the fraud would have been completed. Don't know where he was sitting in the standings. He may not have even been in the running for a check which would explain why WON called him out on it when they did, but would make the whole thing even more perplexing as to why cheat when you aren't even in the race. Like I said, I don't know where he was in the standings to explain why some things where done the way they were.

In this case, Mike may be able to be charged with the attempt to defraud. That will depend on Nevada State Law and the state prosecutors as to what charges can be brought for this incident. That is where the act occurred.

If the states are able to prove that cheating has gone on in other tournaments where money was collected by Mike, then the charge of fraud could be brought in any state that the tournament was held.

Again, these are criminal matters and the prosecution of it is done by the state itself, with government prosecutors (ie tax payers)footing the bill. They would however, need WON to press charges and agree to have officials testify. Defense attornies can drag it out, but the law will take its course and a verdict will get reached eventually.


For any other tournaments where cheating may have occured, it is a much different matter. Suspecting fraud, and proving it are 2 different things. Having poligraph tests to detect lying about a win is good enough for a tournament org to disallow a win or wipe out AOY awards. they are a private org, and are hopefully operating under the rules they have laid out. However, that is not enough to prove the matter in court to win a civil case where they are trying to re-coup monies awarded. To do that each Org would have to pay their own attornies to prosecute the matter. It can get expensive to do a civil court action for all concerned.

The fact that Mike entered a contract with WON in California has no relevance to the criminal charges. It does have relevance if WON wishes to pursue the matter in civil court. Criminal court will either be Nevada State court, or Federal court depending on the jurisdiction determination.

The major issue is if there was cheating involved in past events, Poligraph evidence would not be allowed in the court, so other evidence would be needed to bring charges for past events. That means eye witness testimony, or evidence given by one or more of the people involved. That would be required for either a civil or a criminal action to be successful. Very difficult to pull off.

I'm not saying that any of this has occurred in the past in this case. I would like to believe that Mike's past partners have not been involved in any cheating and that this is a first time thing for Mike as well. I don't know. None of us do. This is afterall, still America where you are not only presumed innocent until proven guilty, (even Mike), but also not pressumed guilty just because you are associated with someone who committed a criminal act. Think a lot of people have lost sight of that lately.

I mostly just want to point out, for anyone who may have similar thoughts about cheating in future tournaments; If you do cheat, you stand to loose a lot more than you think. Potential prison time is possible, along with loss of respect, past accomplishments, friendships, and losing what many of us hold very dear, the ability to go compete in any tournament, anywhere in the country. I have no doubt Mike will have a hard time even going up to Castaic to fun fish now without being called out or worse. Is any of that worth risking, just to do well or win a bass tournament?

[brambo0311]

If it happened in Nevada I'm sure there are some gambling laws that apply.

Plus about 10 thousand bass fisherman that want to club him like a baby seal.

[sro114]

A good lawyer will get him probation no money change hands so all you have is cheating charge there not much he'll get for that its not like he killed somebody past tournaments winnings well be throwin out of court that will be automatic. If won bass wants too save them selfs alot of money and time in court they'll just make sure he banned for life. A real good lawer will just keep getting it postponed and causing wonbass to spend more money and time than its worth.

I agree that he will not be prosecuted like a hardcore criminal, but he will still be prosecuted and with the coverage this is getting most prosecutors would be happy for the press.

While it will take up time for wonbass, the state will pay for the prosecution. I also believe wonbass will feel it is worth the effort to set an example for what they do to guys who cheat.

Just a sad deal and I think Rick Clunn had the easiest and best solution to the problem.