Outdoor Heritage Press Release Re: Closure

TheFLY · Post by **TheFLY** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:48 pm

For Immediate Release
December 21, 2012
Sacramento, California

From its launch thirteen months ago, Outdoor Heritage (OHI) was a bold experiment in western tournament fishing and a valiant effort at angler promotion and payback. Unfortunately, we have not been able to garner enough sponsor support to sustain the business model or a reasonably reduced version of that model.

The current economic situation, recent election, and regulatory environment have dissuaded boat, motor and industry-related sponsors from deepening their investments in California. Therefore, we will take the very best of what we have learned at OHI and apply it in our various fishing endeavors.

We thank the anglers who supported our efforts in this project and encourage them to support our other western circuits if tournament bass angling is to survive in the western United States. We also look forward to supporting the existing regional and national organizations that continue to operate in the West and hope there will be more to come. Full refunds of entry fees, deposits and memberships will be issued prior to Tuesday, January 15, 2013.

OUTDOOR HERITAGE, Inc.

For questions, email markham@outdoorheritageinc.com

Our website will be taken down in conjunction with this press release but we will keep the above email address operational until February 2013 to ensure there are no issues with angler refunds.

whazup · Post by **whazup** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:50 pm

Disappointing. Really looked forward to following this trail.

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:58 pm

Bummer! I was going to try and fish some of these.

Best of luck on other endeavors

davet. · Post by **davet.** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:37 pm

Yup, that sucks. This was the first circuit to pull me off the fence to start fishing Pro-Ams.
Sorry to see it end this early.

Randy Walker · Post by **Randy Walker** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:09 pm

That's really too bad! It was great that a group of folks came together for the idea... It really sounded like there was plenty of interest. Would have done BIG things for western anglers if it could have gone down liked designed.
Thanks for trying to bring something to the anglers ...

Never know what the future holds....

Randy

chrislaskowski · Post by **chrislaskowski** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:26 pm

I had already put all deposits in so guess I need to make some calls?

calfisher71 · Post by **calfisher71** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:57 pm

Bummed, eggs all in this basket....back to the board?

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:05 pm

I thought all the investors wrote big checks to fund the tour and get it through its first few years? Now it's canceled because a lack of sponsorship?

dbbasser · Post by **dbbasser** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:10 pm

Its a tough road right now, hopefully the other majors will bring more events to the West Side ! Nice try guys

Danny B

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:23 pm

LoL @ "Recent elections" had Mitt won 1st through 3rd would be fully rigged Ranger Boats?

They have enough pro staffers and advisory members to have 3 tournaments a week.

Tony

Rod Wynn · Post by **Rod Wynn** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:30 pm

N.A.R wrote:LoL @ "Recent elections"

SMH @ blaming the election...

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:44 pm

lol Tony, they would have given away five boats at each event!

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:13 pm

wow,
This is a suprise I was really looking forward to fishing these events. I too thought that the money was paid for the next few years "with better things to come" as we grow!!!! Shiat I figured with the site, advert, and tourny dates being drawn most of the big money was already spent and with the events coming up they would start to get some of the money back?
ahhhhhhh back to the drawing board

prob just a few opens again this year!!!!
L.S.

GKramer · Post by **GKramer** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:30 pm

Better to wait than have to explain a poor showing half way through the season. Not a lot of free money floating around out there. With Bassmaster Opens not likely until 2014 or later in the West (per latest from Jerry McKinnis) Everstarts get a pass for a year or two--if they can manage some decent fields.

Steve@BHQ · Post by **Steve@BHQ** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:34 pm

Too Bad. Sorry to hear the news.

TEAMDEADMONEY · Post by **TEAMDEADMONEY** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:00 pm

I think this does bite...however.. I applaud OH for nipping it in the bud completely instead of doing things half way...or less. I was planning on fishing them because everything about the events seemed to be a great idea.. Life goes on..

Pete

Revoke36 · Post by **Revoke36** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:30 pm

Damn, what a tease. I thought this was goin straight to the top. Bummer

GW · Post by GW » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:43 pm

At least they knew to pull the plug and had the balls to do it. There are other orgs out there on life support that dont know when to say when...

TheFLY · Post by **TheFLY** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:28 am

Ironically, published the very same day as OHI's announcement:

California encourages business flight

calwatchdog.com
Dec. 21, 2012
By Joseph Perkins

Employees at Chevron’s San Ramon corporate headquarters received an unexpected email yesterday. It notified them that a quarter of their jobs are being moved from California to Texas.

The oil giant, the Golden State’s largest corporation, offered no detailed explanation for the mass transfer. But I suspect it had something to do with California’s decidedly unfriendly business climate.

Indeed, Forbes magazine this month ranked California one of the 10 worst states for business based on six factors: business costs, labor supply, regulatory environment, current economic climate, growth prospects and quality of life.

“California is littered with problems,” the magazine decries.

It ranks last, Forbes noted, in Pollina Corporate Real Estate’s study of the states with the best financial incentive programs and state economic development efforts. Moody’s rates California’s bonds A1, the second lowest of any state. And a study by the Mercatus Center, “Freedom in the 50 States,” ranked California’s regulatory climate the fourth worst among the states.

Meanwhile, California has the fourth-highest tax burden, according to a study by the Tax Foundation. And energy costs here in the Golden State are 33 percent above the national average.

What amazes is that lawmakers in Sacramento don’t think the state’s business climate so bad. They actually think that California is a great state for business.

Chevron obviously disagrees. That’s why it’s transferring 800 jobs from San Ramon to Houston. And the oil giant’s move is no aberration. Corporations are fleeing California for states that don’t view big business as a necessary evil.

Leaving

Indeed, Forbes noted that Comcast shut down its Northern California call centers this year, citing “the high cost of doing business in California.” Some 1,000 workers lost their jobs.

It also mentioned Campbell’s Soup, which padlocked its Sacramento factory, displacing some 700 workers. The company decided to move production to Texas, North Carolina and even Ohio of all places.

That’s not to say there are no benefits to doing business in the Golden State. Indeed, Forbes lists several.

The state has a $2 trillion economy, the world’s ninth largest, which is projected to expand 3.6 percent annually over the next five years (Lord willing and the creek don’t rise).

Some 10 percent of the nation’s 1,000 largest public and private companies are based in California. And they are staffed at the highest levels by very well educated workers, many of whom are products of the state’s first-rate universities....

Full story: http://www.calwatchdog.com/2012/12/21/c ... ss-flight/

Steve@BHQ · Post by **Steve@BHQ** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:33 am

@Kent Brown, Ultimate Bass this morning. AMEN!!!
(Some of why I don't spend too much time on forums)

I did what I could to help them out over on BHQ. Had several looong calls with Gary & even met with several of the other guys for a couple hours one day about helping out etc. Myself and my buddy over @ RB Bass were the first two "Western" websites to promote the new circuit long before their website was even up, etc. We both had hi hopes for the circuit.

I think ALL OF US here in the west just need to WORK TOGETHER more, cross promote, and stop throwing stones "pot shots".

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:48 am

Sorry to hear it guys. Im sure its just a matter of time before this happens. Keep your head up.

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:10 pm

bummer guys..

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:36 pm

[quote="Steve@BHQ"]@Kent Brown, Ultimate Bass this morning. AMEN!!!
[i](Some of why I don't spend too much time on forums)[/i]

I think ALL OF US here in the west just need to WORK TOGETHER more, cross promote, and stop throwing stones "pot shots".[/quote]

Steve this last line is on target and one of the things wrong with the west.

I've had many calls with guys to discuss trying to get western guys together. The "throwing stones" as you call it does more damage to the west than most know. I travel a lot and I get the questions all the time....What's wrong with you western guys? Why all the negative comments and crap from the west? Do those guys even fish or just set on keyboards and bitc*? Why don't you support the circuits? Why? Why? This is not only from other anglers but sponsors as well. Sponsors we need here. If some of you guys only knew how we ( the west ) are perceived. If only ...the guys that claim to care about our sport or really want to fish ( being tournaments or fun ) had a clue about the damage they do ...just maybe they would wake up and quit some of this negativity. Western Bass is our most popular website here. ( All sponsors/companies will make a quick daily stop and scan forum boards ) Wayne has really did a great job of cleaning this site up and stopping trouble makers. We are much better than in the past...but our reputation is bad so it takes very little negativity and it's business as usual. Reputation!! The number of guys dragging us down is relatively small.....BUT, guys that do care will let the negative guys post, talk pure crap, talk pure lies, and stand idly by. In today's world no one wants to stick up for facts or what's right from wrong. It's easier to let them do their thing, not get involved. The only way the west will ever have a TOP LEVEL circuit is from some of our own western anglers/people getting the job done. I'll be there to help the next guy/group that gives it a go. I just hope there is a "NEXT".

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:34 pm

I agree to a point. That said Im a member of many out of state sides and its the same story. People bitch all over its no different.

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:01 pm

[quote="biteme"]I agree to a point. That said Im a member of many out of state sides and its the same story. People bitch all over its no different.[/quote]

Very true!! But, we are looked at differently in the west. That's the point I've tried to make. I agree there are idiots on all sites...ours just matter more

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:19 pm

Wow!

I say again WOW! Nothing against Heritage but tonight I decided to get some online time and I actually had an uneasy feeling that something already was up with the outdoor heritage. I was wondering when the "push" was going to take place , the excitement, the build up of a new circuit that would change everything etc.

I can only be responsible for myself...

California, maybe we need to just do old fashioned turkey shoots on a rotating basis at every lake we have. I realize this would be basic fishing 101 but really how many folks really in their heart enjoyed those comeraderie days?

Ten bucks, hundred bucks whatever people want. Go out and have fun! Forget the sponsor money and drinking the cool aid of fish catching stardom. Forget fishing on TV and one day being on magazine covers etc.

We saw the high water mark of BASS fishing and now reality has set in.

Maybe we all just forgot how to have fun.

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:55 pm

"Maybe we all just forgot how to have fun."

I think this hits it on the head. Bass fishing now seems to be tournament fishing. Tournaments are great, but sometimes I feel like the new comers to the sport see it as any dedicated hardcore bass fisherman has to fish tourneys.. but maybe thats true and Im way off in left field.. iunno

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:05 pm

Ceaser wrote:"Maybe we all just forgot how to have fun."

I think this hits it on the head. Bass fishing now seems to be tournament fishing. Tournaments are great, but sometimes I feel like the new comers to the sport see it as any dedicated hardcore bass fisherman has to fish tourneys.. but maybe thats true and Im way off in left field.. iunno

My first team pro/am I fished with a well known angler. I said let's go have some fun! He looked at me and told me " I don't fish for fun, this is work for me" he went on to talk about how he deserved the boat he got for free. He went on and on. That was my last pro/am I ever fished. I've pretty much sat on the sidelines from that day forward.
I never want to lose track of those days on the water. That first cast, the freash air, the sun coming up, all of it! All the reasons why I love to fish! If I do fish a tournament it just part of the fun for me.

When guys start NEEDING to win to pay bills or for their day of fishing. It's just not fun anymore.

bazs · Post by **bazs** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:53 am

It is too bad that we did not get a chance to see OH succeed, or draw small numbers. We will never know how it would of player out.
I think there would have been a lot of support from those who are already very active in tournaments and it would have also drawn in a lot of guys who were on the fence about getting envolved in tournaments.
I just hope that the sport grows out here. Personally I love tournaments and the intense competition that it envokes between MYSELF and THE FISH. I don't compete against the other guys! If we loose big tourneys out west all together a part of my life will be lost as well.
I understand not everyone shares this passion as many reading this do not want to compete on any level. But as someone who loves bass fishing I would hope all following this thread realize their actions on forums and FB and so on affect the growth of a sport that envolves both tournament and weekend anglers.
There is a lot to be said for those guys who are not interested in tournament fishing hurting its growth. As Gary mentions we in the west are viewed differntly and as bass fishermen, tournament angler or fun fisherman, growing the sport is important. Each negative rant detracts from that goal.
Please don't misconstrue my words to mean I am against non tournament anglers. I work hard each year doing seminars and appearances to share my insights and techniques to everyone who is willing to listen.
I love the sport and I love the battle between the fish and the fisherman that playes out on every cast. Throw in a hundred or so guys competing against the same fish that weekend and there is nothing better!!!!!

Thanks OH guys for trying, I am sad it didn't work out. I think we were so close to something great!
Tight lines,

Zack Thompson

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:42 am

I could handle this in a PM but would rather see open honest communicative responses.

So the question I have for sponsors and perceptions of California anglers is do they want folks to be honest to how they feel or do they want a good ole boy perception that sells products whether you believe in them or not?

I can say California is different, I would say Washington state is now very different since they passed the smoke law. My understanding is that federal dollar loss will "corral" Washington back into the fold.

I get offended watching a person scream when they catch a fish, he spawned a huge whackyness in the sport and that came from the east coast.

I get offended even watching the recent news on the school shootings, that happened on the other coast. It happens on the west coast as well.

What are we doing that offends sponsor's? Being honest? Saying that we dont like something?

Or is it that somes states and powers to be simply dont like the west coast for political values , race etc? What is the real truth?

Steve@BHQ · Post by **Steve@BHQ** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:54 am

Steve this last line is on target and one of the things wrong with the west.

Until I started working with anglers that either already fish back east, or guys who have moved out there to fish professionally, I didn't really have any idea of the perception. But I certainly do now! Especially when I hear it from different anglers fishing both tours, tackle companies & potential sponsors.

It's NO surprise to me BASS isn't out here, and I venture to say if FLW loses The National Guard as a sponsor they'll be gone too. They don't owe us anything, are private business's and can choose to do business when, where & how they want. I know a lot of guys probably don't want to hear this but it's the reality we find ourselves. If ya want to fish those tours MOVE or TRAVEL back there to do so.

So until another group gives it a try for this type of circuit, how about WE support the current circuits we do have?

kb · Post by kb » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:28 am

In order to do what OHI wanted to do and go in the direction they thought they needed to go to not only make a better tournament circuit here but also a different circuit. One that held professional events and weigh-ins, televise the final days of competition, offered the working guy an off limits to even the playing field and rewarded those guys that hooked it up and traveled to every event instead of sitting on their home lake and waiting for the tournaments to come to them they had to have the support of sponsors.

When it all began and up until just a very recent time they had committments from sponsors outside of the industry and within and when it came time to put the money on the line and yes this was after the election and with the threats of looming recession many of those companies started to pull back or pull out all together. Less than two months ago we were paying $4.50 a gallon for gas and not knowing where that was headed many companies had doubts that anglers would be able to travel and fish even if they wanted to.

Other than being on the advisory council I know very little of who those companies were and it really doesn't matter if they felt that the return on marketing monies spent in the West didn't match then they either pulled back or offered less than the OHI guys could accept and still follow their business plan. The fact that Gary has said that the negativity that went around didn't help in their search for sponsors I am sure is very true......are you guys saying that you never heard, read or even said "I don't know if that OHI circuit is going to happen"........If I am the only one that is that connected to what the fishermen were saying I should consider myself lucky! Well that talk is also spread to potential sponsors and supporters both small and large and doesn't help when before they ever get started they have to spend efforts and capitol on rumor control and damage!

I have seen it right here on this page and by guys that won't, have never and have no plans to fish at the level OHI was headed... IN NO WAY DO THE GUYS AT OHI OWE ANYONE A HUMBLE APOLOGY!!! What for? Because they had a vision and pulled together resources and contacts and tried to make it happen here in the West and after nearly a year of work they couldn't pull it together and in order to not lose more money chasing this thing they decided to stop before they got going. They are returning every dime to the anglers that signed up, joined and sent in deposits....there are only 5 guys that are going to lose money on OHI....Gary, Richard Dobyns, Tony Franceschi, Craig Gottwals, Jim Markham and Rod Lee the five that put in a great deal of work to give it a try....To them it isn't a joke they are bummed it didn't come together for the anglers here in the West.... Sorry guys but when I read the forums and see guys taking shots and in one case the guy still owes me a large amount of advertising money for his failed business and he is questioning how the OHI guys are doing it the hair on my neck goes up!!!

Sponsors are not sending money to the guys that are putting videos up on-line or pushing their sponsors on line......each and every one of us that do play this game for our living are no different than many industries we have taken cut's in pay, done more for less or lost some sponsors all together and many of us are trying to figure out ways to give more than we ever had just to retain the sponsors we have like on line videos, bass fishing classes and few more days of promotions and shows when we really wanted to be fishing or pre fishing.

For those of you that say you will still fish without the sponsors......there will be no tournament circuits to fish without the sponsors as long as the anglers demand 100% payback, permits, fees, insurance and online results and recognition that beats you home from the lake......There are plenty of those to fish already start signing up!

I personally don't think the five guys that put timeless hours into this whole thing owe us anything especially not an apology, explanation of what happened or the courtesy of listening to how we would have done it.......if you see those five guys thank them and wish them luck on the water as they are all planning on fishing more this year......

I am signed up for the Oroville Everstart so I hope to see some of you up there fishing with us!

Zack you are right on the money!!!!

kb

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:37 pm

Kent,

U said a lot! I agree that The OH guys have balls of steel trying to put this thing together.

What I dont get is that ANYONE would be suprised at the price of fuel or that there is a 'looming recession".

We always talk about growing the sport. The sport is growing at the entry level team tournament circuits. Cheap inexpensive fun.

Building confidence and having people believe in something is how you get people to fish OH or any other circuit. There will always be fence riders, who cares about them?

For the folks who cant see the rising fuel prices or looming recession I have a gem for ya. Either start building and investing in OUR COUNTRY or move over because our future is going to be remembering how it used to be... (the high water mark)

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:04 pm

Here is a post from another website. I simply copied it. Many of you know Tom Leogrande. He has a promotion company ( doing very well ) and helps a number of anglers on BASS and FLW. BUT, he's a western guy recently moved from CA to OR. He cares about the west!!

I'm posting this here because Tom passes a lot of info here and he says it well. It might matter to some of you.

TomLeogrande
Bassmaster

Offline

Posts: 3345

Re: Outdoor Heritage Press Release Re: Closure
« Reply #31 on: Today at 03:37:54 PM » Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's up everyone. I apologize for not spending more time on here and keeping up with my CalBassin.com friends. I've been pretty darn busy and just haven't been checking in as much as I'd like to. With that said - read about this and figured there would be a thread on the topic. I am kinda shocked at what I am reading. Here is my take - remember I had nothing to do with OHI, I wasn't on the advisory committee and other than a 2 or 3 minute call with Gary which was about something other than OHI, I haven't spoken to anyone involved. Make no mistake, I am not a Gary Dobyns apologist - he's a big boy and can take care of himself, but here's my take:

1 - I have spent the past 2 years travelling around the US working for anglers from all over. When the subject of the west comes up it gets ugly. I have shared some parts of conversations with BMX in the past. The high ups at both FLW and BASS aren't huge fans of the west. Let me assure you that if I had recorded 2 different conversations I have had with pretty much top FEW of each organization none of you would ever want to support either organization again. However, they are wrong and I hope they see it sometime. Once conversation took place on the ramp at Lake Guntersville and the other at a media even on the Alabama River.

As for the anglers, it's a similar sentiment. Anglers of all levels that I meet while on the road wonder what they heck is wrong with "California Anglers". Most of you are my friends, in fact I consider all of you my friends and I would do just about anything to help most of you on this board if I could. But, truth be told - we are a very misunderstood group. The two most prominent things people want to know about the west are - "what's wrong with the west coast" and "How do I throw one of those giant baits" Gary is not lying when he talks about this.

2 - Putting together a class tournament that OHI was attempting to do isn't cheap nor is it easy. The fact they even tried to do it was shocking to me. I know first hand how hard it is to try to make a differentce in tournaments, especially without external sponsor help. I am still paying my credit card payments on money I spent to make a lot less flashy CBC event. I could only imagine how much more I would owe if it wasn't for basically free help from Andy Mercado and many others. It would again go up, if we wanted to film and put the events on TV. Heck I used free internet and free streaming software to try and save money, didn't pay for any help at events,thanks to Andy's dedication to the sport and to help the CBC. Was this first class? No - but we did what we could and tried to offer the most for an affordable cost. Back to the point, to run what they were trying to do was gonna cost A LOT, A LOT MORE THAN most will imagine!!! That money has to come from somewhere. Which brings me to #3.

3 - If you don't think Obama's re-election matters to many businesses, you are mistaken. I have seen emails and heard second hand from MANY professional - TOP TIER, HOUSEHOLD NAMES, that their deals are being cut, or dropped altogether. Their reason, "Due to the Obama re-election" - using those words verbatim from at least one. Others stated it a little softer towards the President. Keep in mind, I am not political at all - Romney or Obama didn't matter to me. In fact, I think they both would have sucked - but it is what it is. It's a shame when the smartest and best leaders in our country would rather run a software company or other large business and we are left to two like Obama and Romney to run the best country in the world. But it's a what can it do for me world and you can't make tens of millions being a President.

While I think it stinks that the OHI isn't going to happen! I do think we better figure a way to get something in the west or we will be left to 20 hours of driving to get in a real pro-level tournament. Don't believe me, I don't care - I am just letting you know what I see. Even the orgs that do have events in the west get no support and no turnouts. Rumor has it, and I don't know this first hand, several of them are barely making it and are wanting to pull out. I have suggestions - but to be honest I'm tired of trying to change the game in the west. It's a lot easier to have a positive effect in the National scene, and that's really backwards... but again, it's the truth.

Next to lastly, If you don't think these forums and negative comments on them are bad for the sport, then you should rethink it. Posts that slam someone or something does nobody any good. At one time I thought these boards ran the sport in the west, but truth be told - they don't. They are fun, and they have allowed me to meet some great people, but you can't make a business by using these boards solely to get the word out. You also can't ruin a business solely by slamming it on these boards either. However, you can definitely taint the public perception to what we are out here in the west, and we've all (myself included) done a pretty darn good job of that.

Luckily, I have had the chance to meet quite a few of you and I know we are blessed with great people and great fisherman in the west and in California in particular, but the businesses and entities that could help our sport in the west don't have the luxury to spend the time up and down the state and meet and see that we are just like any other state - full of good guys (and gals) who love to fish.

Lastly, I'd like to say Merry Christmas to all of you and I am making my New Years Resolution to spend more time on here keeping up with all of you who I enjoy talking fishing with. Hope you all get to spend quality time with loved ones and share a few fishing stories over some eggnog or something stronger!

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:53 pm

Maybe someone can break down "what's wrong with the west coast" means?
What is it that they think of us? What stereotype do they have of us thats stopping them from coming here? I see guys like Ike, swindle on his off days and a whole list of others that do the sport a whole lot of harm when they get wrapped up. We just watched a angler throw a racial slur and get banned from BASS, he wasnt from the west. So what is it thats soo bad? I see guys like skeet, zain ect from Cali that do a whole lot of good for the sport.
Ive seen this site go from tons of members to not many posting. Back in the day yes there was drama here and there but it was always solved. Nothing more then what goes on with other sports.
Sorry if Im going on here guys but it pisses me off to see others use something so stupid as a scape goat. To stereotype all the west because of a few bad apples is just wrong!

ScottyJ · Post by **ScottyJ** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:11 pm

Gary Dobyns wrote: The high ups at both FLW and BASS aren't huge fans of the west. Let me assure you that if I had recorded 2 different conversations I have had with pretty much top FEW of each organization none of you would ever want to support either organization again.

What a can of worms this will open. Well Gary I urge you to contact Tom and post what exactly these upper FLW and BASS people have to say about us west coast anglers. There are a lot of "us" people who support and participate in their events and if they only think bad about us why would anyone want to give them money? Either Tom is trying to stir the $hit pot or is keeping some info he has heard from the horses mouth so to speak that us west coasters should hear.

Scott Johnson

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:54 pm

this trail not working out is a sad thing. I was looking forward to having both the teams and pro ams here on the west, I thought the model was outstanding. But the midwest and eastern side of the country has a view of whats wrong with california/the west reguardless of fishing. And the " both tournament and weekend anglers" comments... I dont understand this. I spend 3-5 days a week on the water 90% of the year, but I in no way consider myself a tournament angler or weekend fisherman. Ive been on the bass fishing grind non stop since I moved her is '97, from working at hogans in 2000 for minimum wage, to living on the water despite the hassels it throws into everyday life, i live this sport. but since I choose not to regularly compete in tournaments for a multitude of reasons, or because I am not actively promoting the growth of the sport, that makes me a bain or a stubbed toe for bass fishing in the west? I do not see how not growing tournament trails in the west is hurting bass fishing in general. In my short period of being a fanatic obsessed with the sport of bass fishing, i have seen the tournaments here go through ups and downs, orgs go under or make it, and this was going on before internet forums. Bass fishing has always been a soap opera, with interdrama and conflict, the internet just makes it more visable. I am all for a great tourney trail to start up here on the west and hold its own with the likes of BASS and FLW. but in general there are not many businesses that can find investors or are having good luck being successful in this state of the economy. Investors want to see a RETURN and profit on the money they give and in general its not there. Theres always fingers to be pointed, but the east views us westerners as weirdos that drink wheat grass and wear sandals all year under palm trees anyways. I know, my family is scattered thoughout the east coast, south and mid west. Us fishing for bass just fits into that perception. We are crazy for throwing huge baits.. yet they are following suit back east doing what we have been doing for decades. Theres nothing wrong with the westcoast bass fishermen... we are just that, westcoast bass fishermen. different in a lot more ways than one. Now the tournament scene here is not keeping pace and is nothing like it is back east, so maybe the right question to ask is "whats wrong with the west coast tournament scene?" "Why is the tournament scene not succeeding to the level that it is in the eastern US?" My main kinda point is that bass fishermen and tournament fishermen are part of the same group, but just because you are not a tournament guy does not make you a person that is not supporting bass fishing in general and not competing in tourneys does not make you a "weekend fisherman" or a fisherman that cares less about the sport in general. Competing in tourneys doesnt make you any better than the guy out there in a 12' aluminum with a trolling motor clamped to a block of wood on the bow.

rickyshabazz · Post by **rickyshabazz** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:32 am

Thanks to the Anglers who tried to make this work. I had time off and hotels booked to fish the Northern events.

It takes as much energy to stay positive as it does to be negative. See you all who really do this at Oroville for the FLW and the WON BASS. I hope BASS returns so that we have FLW and BASS. If not, we are still blessed to do what we LOVE!

Time to move on……See you all who really fish....catch me on the water!

blakebass21 · Post by **blakebass21** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:55 am

Bummer

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:48 pm

Competitive fishing is dying in the West. We have too many regulations to contend with that don't make sense, inspections, gas formulations, stickers etc..We also are losing fisherman for many reasons, guys who just don't fish anymore; see these results below and look at how many guys are around but don't compete.
http://www.bassmaster.com/tournaments/2 ... results/1/

We have too many orgs and not enough fishermen.

But the biggest problem is the cost. We talk about the economy all the time in regards gas prices and entry fees but we will go out and drop $400-500 on a rod and reel combo at the drop of a dime. Think about it this way; If you were 17 years old and wanting to get into fishing and were starting from scratch and you worked about 16 hours/week at $10/hr which is about the minimum wage. How would you do it? A couple of A-rigs, some flouro, a bag of plastics, and hooks and most of your paycheck is gone. Now throw in 5 decent combos at $150 each. Think of the amount of lures you have but narrow it down to what you really need and then add it all up. Now you are thinking of buying a boat and it goes up. A tournament ready boat that you can compete in?

My boat is 19.5ft with a 200 opti. I bought it new in 2005 for about 37k. The same boat with the same options today is about 47k. If I go one step up and get into a 20ft boat (new) its 50k (decent elctronics, dual axle trailer etc). The truth is that this is the market because we are willing to pay it. If we as a group said we will only pay x amount for a boat and nobody would pay a dime more then that would be the cost of boats, same for rods, reels and down the line. In short we are shooting ourselves in the foot by driving the market with our willingness to keep paying more and more. This is pricing out our next generation of fishermen and thus we are not filling the void left by people who get out of the sport or move up.

The end result is the failure or the inability to get a true local or regional pro/am circuit that will succeed. The numbers are not there and it is a price issue. I fish tournaments and I am in a club and I know firsthand the expenses it takes to fish tournaments regularly and I live a good distance from any decent water and I have somewhat higher costs to fish day in and day out. But it is not cheap all the way around some of it is out of our hands but some isn't. We do have say in this sport we are the market and we can have control over it if we choose to.

Sorry for the rant but I hated to see OHI die and not chime in a little.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:13 am

crawdaddy said "We have too many orgs and not enough fishermen.

That's the heart of the problem.
States like Texas have enough anglers to support lots of tournament trails.
The southeast and east coast have concentrations of people, and lots of anglers.
California is spread out, and we don't have the numbers to support lots of trails well.
And there are too many oranizations fighting for too few anglers. As long as this keeps up, there won't be a really successful tournament scene out here.
I know some orgs. are successful. But their fields are still smaller than they were ten years ago, and some of them are having trouble getting tournament directors to work for next to nothing.
Several years ago John Barron and Kent Brown discussed this at Anglers Marine Anaheim, and suggested that the CA orgs. needed to try and cooperate, having fewer tournaments, but more participation and better payouts for those events because of the bigger fields. None of the competing orgs. wanted to get involved with that effort down here in So Cal, and only a few did in No Cal.
Unless all the tournament organizations in CA get together and craft some kind of cooperative statewide strategy to make themselves really successful, the anglers here will be fighting over scraps.
No one wants to fish a 10 boat event.

TomL · Post by **TomL** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:22 pm

Scotty J -

In regards to your post copied below - I won't be sharing what was told to me. They were in private conversations and will remain that way. As I mentioned in my post, I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no agenda here, just wanted to share the fact that Gary's comments were right on about the way we west coasters are perceived nationally. If I wanted to stir the $hit pot as you put it - I would have brought this up a long time ago. The worst conversation was held at Lake Guntersville, during the tournament where the A-Rig blew up.

What a can of worms this will open. Well Gary I urge you to contact Tom and post what exactly these upper FLW and BASS people have to say about us west coast anglers. There are a lot of "us" people who support and participate in their events and if they only think bad about us why would anyone want to give them money? Either Tom is trying to stir the $hit pot or is keeping some info he has heard from the horses mouth so to speak that us west coasters should hear.

Scott Johnson

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:56 pm

Mark is right but it is also our the anglers fault also because if we would just stop fishing orgs that have low turnouts they would be forced to close it. I can't imagine them making much with the low turnouts.
It's up to us to figure out what circuits are already drawing decent numbers and add to it by becoming a part of it. Help it grow.
I notice that even with the smaller and larger events the winning weights are similar. So it's really not a advantage to fish smaller events and vie for smaller check and less places paid.
The truth is though we have been saying this for years. I have stop fishing tournament circuits and just jump in the fun ones here and there but I was going to jump in this and like others have said. I will just sit back and wait for something better IF it ever happens!

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:39 pm

TomL wrote:Scotty J -

In regards to your post copied below - I won't be sharing what was told to me. They were in private conversations and will remain that way. As I mentioned in my post, I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no agenda here, just wanted to share the fact that Gary's comments were right on about the way we west coasters are perceived nationally. If I wanted to stir the $hit pot as you put it - I would have brought this up a long time ago. The worst conversation was held at Lake Guntersville, during the tournament where the A-Rig blew up.

What a can of worms this will open. Well Gary I urge you to contact Tom and post what exactly these upper FLW and BASS people have to say about us west coast anglers. There are a lot of "us" people who support and participate in their events and if they only think bad about us why would anyone want to give them money? Either Tom is trying to stir the $hit pot or is keeping some info he has heard from the horses mouth so to speak that us west coasters should hear.

Scott Johnson

Tom,

Are these BASS/FLW officials referring to their experiences dealing with western anglers who fish (or aspire to fish) the higher level tours in the east? Or are they referring to customers who fish/support their lower level western events? Or is it their perception of all western bass fishermen in general?

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:51 pm

Tom,

Are these BASS/FLW officials referring to their experiences dealing with western anglers who fish (or aspire to fish) the higher level tours in the east? Or are they referring to customers who fish/support their lower level western events? Or is it their perception of all western bass fishermen in general?

I dont think these assumptions should have been brought up if no one can say what they are. Why stoke the fire if you cant explain what the problem is.
We see so much drama with these Anglers on TV and 99% of the drama involves the mid west or east coast guys. But some how the West coast guys are getting the blame for a circuit not working? Because for some reason sponsors dont want to support the West? Well call them out. I want to make sure I'M not supporting their products! The rest of us should follow that path and show what a impact we can have.

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:22 pm

biteme wrote:
Tom,

Are these BASS/FLW officials referring to their experiences dealing with western anglers who fish (or aspire to fish) the higher level tours in the east? Or are they referring to customers who fish/support their lower level western events? Or is it their perception of all western bass fishermen in general?
I dont think these assumptions should have been brought up if no one can say what they are. Why stoke the fire if you cant explain what the problem is.
We see so much drama with these Anglers on TV and 99% of the drama involves the mid west or east coast guys. But some how the West coast guys are getting the blame for a circuit not working? Because for some reason sponsors dont want to support the West? Well call them out. I want to make sure I'M not supporting their products! The rest of us should follow that path and show what a impact we can have.

Yep, why even bring it up then.

TomL · Post by **TomL** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:06 pm

FishforFood - They were referring to the western events as a whole not individuals.

Biteme - thanks for the perfect example! If you read the whole post that Gary copied over here from the other site - you will see that I laid out what the problems were.

If you want to know what they think - get on a plane and go ask them. My private conversations aren't meant for you or this board. Like I said, don't believe me if you don't want to, I don't care. But I was just giving my honest feedback from what I have heard and seen from other areas of the country.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:35 pm

TomL wrote:FishforFood - They were referring to the western events as a whole not individuals.

Biteme - thanks for the perfect example! If you read the whole post that Gary copied over here from the other site - you will see that I laid out what the problems were.

If you want to know what they think - get on a plane and go ask them. My private conversations aren't meant for you or this board. Like I said, don't believe me if you don't want to, I don't care. But I was just giving my honest feedback from what I have heard and seen from other areas of the country.

Lol perfect example? I thought your perfect example was blaming the Anglers? So your telling us that the reason we're a lost cause is because of whats said on a message board! Thats a good one! Would you like me to point you to other sites on the east coast that do the same???

Whatever guys play the blame game at the expense of the Anglers Im out.

Good luck and good fishing to you all.

TomL · Post by **TomL** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Biteme - I wasn't blaming anyone. In fact, I personally like just about everyone I have ever met on here and/or on the water in California, or anywhere for that matter. I was just relaying what the perception is! Since I have made 15 trips back east to tournaments and events over the past 12 months, I have seen and heard a lot. You can call it a blame game, call it misunderstood, call it myth or fable if you want. None of it matters to me, again I am just calling it the way I hear and see it. My personal opinion is we don't necessarily need one of the two big boys out here. We just need less of the smaller trails. But, my opinion isn't worth the time it took me to type this - and I type fast!

bassdaddy · Post by **bassdaddy** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:29 pm

Tom...I appreciate you taking the time to jump in and give us a unique perspective that I seriously doubt anyone else on this board could provide.
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