IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

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WB Staff
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IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by WB Staff »

It is being reported that the IGFA is now questioning the genetics of Nick Dulleck's world record spotted bass catch from New Bullards Bar Reservoir

http://lufkindailynews.com/sports/outdo ... 1b835.html
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Steve
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by Steve »

As well they should be. Ive never believed they were Spotted Bass. Have tissue samples from the Ferrante fish but problem is finding a geneticist that can find base samples of Alabama Bass, and the people that did the regional genetics work in the SouthEast that led to the elevation of the two subspecies to species seem disinterested.

Regardless, Dullecks fish is a world record, its just that nobody really knows which species.
Cooch

Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by Cooch »

I don't get it? IGFA only has a listing for one Spotted Bass, they don't show a record for each of the three sub-species mentioned. They also don't show different records for largemouth, ie: Northern vs Florida strain, just one record. Genetically speaking, is Perry's fish caught in Georgia during 1932, the same as the Japan caught bass by Kurita in 2009?

This whole Genetics thing, after the fact, opens a whole new can O worms, world wide, for ALL species of fish! I'm with Steve, Dulleck's fish is a world record, leave it at that!
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hydro
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by hydro »

It would be interesting to see how the genetics of large Spots from Pine Flat , New Melones , and Bullards Bar all compare ?
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Steve
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by Steve »

Cooch, this stuff can be complicated but heres a simplified version. Spotted Bass always had two subspecies, northern and Alabama. IFGA only recognizes records for species (to my knowledge). In 2013 AFS (American Fisheries Society) elevated the two spotted bass subspecies to species (based on genetic research). We now have Spotted Bass and Alabama Bass. However, the IGFA either was not aware of this or hasnt made the change yet (nor did the state of CA or probably any other state for that matter). In the meantime, Bullards starts kicking out WRs, and from day one Ive always believed they were Alabama Bass. But how do you prove this. Tissue samples of course, teasing through historical stocking records in CA good luck with that. So those fish caught and verified as WRs post 2013 could in fact be Alabama Bass not Spotted Bass. So at this point the IGFA and the CA record books could be wrong.

And further, the two subspecies of Largemouth Bass, northern and Florida, are likely to be elevated to species in the near future. We will then have a brand new species called Florida Bass. The other will just be Largemouth Bass. Many authors are already writing as though the change has already been made.
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by Larry Hemphill »

It seems that identifying separate species of certain bass would be difficult these days. There is too much inter-breeding. The only pure Florida strain largemouth I know of are found at Rancho Seco lake. Smallies and spots inter-breed at several lakes - clients and I have caught many at Lake Oroville. Then there is the 'Red Eye" smallie at Oroville. I believe the Alabama spotted bass was a smaller species than the larger ones we find in our California lakes. It doesn't seem that any of the giant spotted bass caught in many of our Nor Cal lakes would have any Alabama influence in their genetic makeup. Just some of my thoughts.
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by NoCAL »

For those who are interested, my father was the regional fisheries biologist in the Inland Empire when Alabama bass were first brought to CA. He got them off the plane and released them into Lake Perris. From there, they electroshocked fish which were relocated to Lake Mathews near Corona. He and other biologists would catch them on rod and reel from Mathews for transplanting to other CA lakes. The first being Millerton. These bass were known then as Alabama Spotted bass and are different genetically from the true Kentucky Spotted bass. Even though there was no DNA in those days, they specifically imported Alabama bass because of the potential for greater size than the Kentuckys. If anyone has any questions about the stocking and were each species went, let me know and I will ask him. He did read the article yesterday and his comment was "Don't need DNA just come ask me, I know what I put into each lake!"

NoCAL
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Steve
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by Steve »

Larry:

CA never received pure Florida strain bass, so the only thing any of us can ask ourselves about our Largemouth Bass these days is what percentage of the genetics is actually Florida strain. As it relates to Alabama vs Spotted Bass, Alabamas are the ones that get much bigger.

We could go back in time and look at the CA stocking records of both Alabama and Spotted Bass but that would be just a general indicator of what California may have received and where each may have been placed. Considering the time period when CA received each, I would question the purity of the original transplants. If we assume the original fish were pure, we still have the issue of biologists/fisherman moving fish around and hybridization. And so the only way to tell for sure what the genetic makeup of a particular lake is would be through genetic analysis. The other big question would be can we be certain that the CA stocking records, that should go back to the late 1930s, are complete and accurate.
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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by mark poulson »

NoCAL wrote:For those who are interested, my father was the regional fisheries biologist in the Inland Empire when Alabama bass were first brought to CA. He got them off the plane and released them into Lake Perris. From there, they electroshocked fish which were relocated to Lake Mathews near Corona. He and other biologists would catch them on rod and reel from Mathews for transplanting to other CA lakes. The first being Millerton. These bass were known then as Alabama Spotted bass and are different genetically from the true Kentucky Spotted bass. Even though there was no DNA in those days, they specifically imported Alabama bass because of the potential for greater size than the Kentuckys. If anyone has any questions about the stocking and were each species went, let me know and I will ask him. He did read the article yesterday and his comment was "Don't need DNA just come ask me, I know what I put into each lake!"

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Re: IGFA Questions Genetics of Newest World Record Spotted Bass

Post by vinny »

Millerton was a great fishery and then they put the spots in there. It isn't worth a damn now. They same thing goes for Pine Flat and Bass Lake.
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Alabamas they were!

Post by Larry Hemphill »

Sorry, my fingers were typing while my mind was in a fog. I was thinking about Kentuckys while I was writing Alabamas. My bad!
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