5 or 7?

5 fish or 7 fish that is the question

Poll ended at Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:45 pm

5 fish
62
60%
7 fish
42
40%
 
Total votes: 104

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Mike
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5 or 7?

Post by Mike »

Gary opened up the great debate over the 5 fish or 7 fish limit again. If you ask the tournament directors they will tell you that the fishermen want the 5 fish limit, and it helps with entrys. But, it seems everytime this subject comes up everyone says they would like it at 7 fish. So which is it?
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Mike
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Mike »

156 people looked at this poll and only 22 voted??? I guess no one cares.
Last edited by Mike on Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Guest »

Mike: maybe only the tournament guys have replied. remember, a guy who fishes just for the fun of fishing might not care about tournaments and therefor may not vote and statistically, there are far more non tournament bass fisherman that tournament ones.

korny
Rod Martin
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Rod Martin »

How do you know? Were they like me , looked at the poll then had to log in to vote. which now days requires that I log in twice. so I could have accounted for 3 or 4 hits on your poll.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Phil »

STRANGE, I SEE 45 VOTES SO FAR !!!!!!!!
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by RougeBass »

I voted for 5 and let me explian why and see what others thoughts are. I was at Berryessa when this "Cull" "No Cull" stuff was going on and I asked a Game Warden about it it. He gave me his thoughts and oppions on a few things but told me that in a tournament that had a 7 fish limit, it is against the law for one guy in the boat to catch more than five fish. And that each person in the boat must account for their own possesion. Basically said that if I had 5 fish in the boat and my partner and none, that I could cull my own five fish but I could not keep a sixth fish in the boat.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Phil »

BASICALLY THE REASON FOR TWO GUYS IN A BOAT. PRETTY MUCH (MOST) OF THE TIME THE OTHER PARTNER WILL CATCH A FISH OR TWO ???
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Lake »

Also keep in mind there are way more lurkers then ppl that actually post
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by RougeBass »

Ok Jigs i agree but what if your partner doesn't do you put that 6th fish in the live well?
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Phil »

HARD ONE HUH ?? I WAS IN THE SAME BOAT SATURDAY.....I WAS FISH LESS MY PARTNER CAUGHT 4, ME ZERO........WOULD WE HAVE STOPPED AT (5) ?? THE LIMIT WAS 7 FOR THE C&C TOURNAMENT ?

COULD'NT TELL YOU,,,,INSIDE ME WOULD SAY YES STOP AT 5, PARTNER DOES LIKE TO SHOW OFF SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN HARD DECISSION !!
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Bill K
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Bill K »

Now come on boys. All of you know you would keep fishing till 7 were in for the weigh-in. Heck I had to catch mine and Rougebass's more than once, to limit out.. HAR Har.. :lol: :lol: Bill K
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Phil »

I don't think i would do it on Almanor Bill !! I really hate abusing those beautiful Smallmouth up there. I remember those days I am from Cottonwood remember !!
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Bill K
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Bill K »

Jigs. When I fished 100% Bass, they never came to Almanor, so I have never fished a tourney that had a seven fish limit/weigh-in. All of them have been 5, except one Fed that we fished 4 due to that culling issue. Never would I abuse those s/m, they are super up here and so fun. Just wish this snow would stop and start to warm so they will move up and on. You know what I mean. I have 2 1/2 ft of new stuff last night and today, so all I have been doing is plowing snow. In fairness to Roughbass, I am just giving him a bad time. Bill K :lol: :lol:
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Cooch

So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by Cooch »

we see a 68% vote for 5 fish and 32% vote for 7 fish. So 39 anglers say they want 5 fish limits, I would like to hear why they would choose this number. I certainly can not swallow the fact presented by RougeBass, this was NEVER an issue in team tournaments up until last year when all this 4 fish limit bufaw came to pass. Certainly, as was proven by the Bass fishing community and their efforts in working "WITH" the DFG, this issue was resolved and some sort of ammends have been made for tournament fishing. I would like to think that the folks working our DFG at this time, realize the amount of revenue generated by tournaments, are to the point where it indeed is prudent that they work with us. They have shown a willingness ta do so. With this in mind, I don't buy using this as a reason why we should be fishing 5 fish limits in team events. How many wardens are really going to be able to police this guys? Let's be honest with ourselves, and look at reality, the state, does not have the capitol or resources to inforce this. It's gone on fer 20 years as an unwritten oversight by the department to allow us to do it this way. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to do the same thing for team events getting that limit set back to 7 fish. Now this, is only one guys reasoning. I certainly respect his opion, I just don't believe it's why the rest of em voted the way they have.

What about the rest of ya that voted for five? What other possible reason could you want a five fish limit versus seven, other than to feel in yer mind you'll be able to compete? I can certainly see where in lower level, start up, events such as the Hook(which is one of the few left with 7 fish limits), Future Pros or any of the other semi-pro type team events, where a 5 fish limit would be appropriate. But in the higher level events, like those put on by WON, ABA, Angler's Choice, National Bass West and 100% Bass, why wouldn't we want them to be the permier events that truely, and ultimately, test our skills against each other? Come on folks, get real here, Tournament bass fishing is about competing, not the tossing of the dice and hoping ta git lucky.

Ya know, one of the most valuable lessons I learned growing up as a kid was, to be able to compete and succeede, ya had to do so on the same level as the best. Otherwise, ya never got any better than what you were when ya started. I was a tall lanky white kid growing up in Richmond. I loved ta play basketball. And I used ta hang around with all my Richmond hill buddies playing ball at the local parks and after school. I got a rude awakening when I got to Jr. Highschool folks. It was a non-segragated school. They bussed half the kids from the flat lands of Richmond up to Adam's Jr. Highschool. I ran into a whole nother level of talent playing with these black kids. They manhandle me when I first started ta play with them. From that point on, I started to go to their play grounds ta play. I became a much better player and upon entering high school at John F. Kennedy, started at forward at every level I played until I blew my knee out in a game against Elk Grove and Bill Cartright at the Richmond Auditorium! It made me a far better player to suck it up and go play with these more talented kids.

My point here is, we can't be afraid to take it to the next level. It's the only way we're ever gonna become better at this. And if this doesn't git yer blood boiling ta think twice about it, just take a look at Ish, Fred, MikeR and Skeet! Ain't nothin' greater than believing in yerself and taking it to the next level!
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Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by Lake »

#1 reason. Its easier to carry 5 bags rather then 7
#2 reason. The extra 2 bags could be considered a poor use of our natural resources.

Ok seriously Cooch I voted for 5 and I know my reason's will cause debate but here ya go.

I am a if it isn't broke (and it isn't) don't mess with it. Most circuits are 5 fish and its fine as is.

Now for the debate part: My biggest reason is we want to be able to compete when I or my partner have to fish alone. Things happen, schedules conflict we wouldn't feel as encouraged to fish the event if I was at a 2 fish disadvantage. There are also the times when you just want to show up and throw your money in and spin the wheel hoping to get lucky and do well fishing alone. It could be because you were on fish the day before or just have a feeling. Either way if it were 7 I wouldn't do this. I also believe the TD's encourage guys like me to show up alone and donate therefore creating a larger field.
Cooch

Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by Cooch »

I am a if it isn't broke (and it isn't) don't mess with it. Most circuits are 5 fish and its fine as is.
It was 7 fish events fer 20 years, and 10 before that, We DO AGREE, why fix something that ain't broken?

As fe part two, these are team events, if ya wanna fish alone, in todays world of bass events, we got a lot of 1 day Pro-Ams! Secondly, why should I, and the rest of the field for that matter, be at a disadvantage because a few guys can't git their team partner to commit to every event?
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Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by RougeBass »

Cooch the bottom line for me is I'm going to fish regardless if its a 2 fish limit or a 10 fish limit. But i do disagree with this:

"How many wardens are really going to be able to police this guys? Let's be honest with ourselves, and look at reality, the state, does not have the capitol or resources to inforce this."

Just because the state does not have the resources to inforce any law on the books doesn't give anyone a right to disregard them.

I'm not saying I won't fish a tournament with a 7 fish limit but if I have the only 5 fish in the boat. I will be thinking very hard about what i'm going to do with that 6th fish. And let me tell you why. There is a ton (And I mean a ton) of Fish & Game regulations that are Misdemeanors not infractions. And for some of us a midemeanors convictions would cause us a great hardship with our employers. But will i be out there fishing you bet.

And if you have ever had to fish with Bill K. he might not look very big but he gets heavy real fast when you have to carry him all day!!!!! HAR!
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Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by Lake »

dood
How do you figuer a team of 2 anglers fishing for 5 fish has a disadvantage against a guy fishing by himself for 5 fish?

It was 10 fish then 7 and now 5. Why did it change in the first place? Like we said if it aint broke?


Great discussion
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Tobe
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Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by Tobe »

Five fish or seven fish, it doesn’t really matter as long as everyone else is playing the same game, however adding two more fish to the limits would only create a "fishing chicken" mentality in a lot of anglers.

Finding and catching tournament size fish is unarguably more of a challenge than finding a couple of rats to fill your bag!

As far as a seven fish limit being more competitive, I would have to disagree, every bass tournament I have ever competed in was won by anglers catching the heaviest bag, thus having the quality (larger) fish.

I am still trying to figure out where Cooch is coming from by being at a disadvantage fishing against a one stick team , if my partner and I get beat by a guy fishing solo I would say what a stud !

So would adding those two extra fish give guys that have a hard time getting on bigger fish a better chance to compete? I think so.

I also put my money where my mouth is, I have donated quite a lot to those guys on quality fish.
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Rod Martin
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Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by Rod Martin »

Cooch I voted for 5, because I dont want 7 really big fish stuffed in a 5 fish livewell :cry: With all those swimbaiters catching 15lbers, we need to go to 5 fish limits untill boats have larger live wells :lol: I would hate to see a Ranger show up at weigh in and not be able to get the fish out of the livewell. Har.
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Re: So, a little less han 24 hours into this Poll......

Post by NaCl »

A 7 fish limit punishes a solo team member TWICE!

First, he's only got one rod going against every other team's 2 rods. That's a major handicap all by itsself.

Second, the solo team angler has a 2 fish penalty for the day that is very difficult to overcome.

The combination of penalties almost guarantees he is just "donating" his hard earned dollars. With a 5 fish limit, there's an outside chance the solo team member could get a check and decent points.

Lesser reasons are:

1. Conservation - we all know a lot of guys do NOT take care of their fish. Seven fish limits expose 40% more bass to the damage done by a day's handling.

2. Predation - all the meat fishermen know where the big tournaments are held. It is common for them to move in for several days after a weigh-in to catch the crap outta the released fish. A 5-fish tourny creel avoids exposing 40% more fish to predation.

3. Old Equipment - Many boats used in team events are older. Some are well maintained, others are not. The more fish we expose to weak or faulty livewell systems, the more will die.

4. Faster weighins - Fewer fish to manage means faster weigh-ins....less stress on the fish.

5. A 7-fish limit puts greater emphasis on numbers, rather than than quality. A 5-fish limit shifts greater emphasis on quality in order to overcome some lucky guy's big kicker fish. How many times does the winning team NOT have the big fish for the day? Its quite common. Those winning teams WERE able to find much better overall quality. That is truly a bass fishing accomplishment.

On the "positive" side, a 7 fish limit would discourage solo anglers. In turn, this might reduce the probability of someone cheating. What if the same guy won three tournies in a row fishing solo? There's a good chance he might become suspected of cheating...EVEN if he was NOT cheating! Of course, back in the "good ol days", team circuits had a threat of polygraph tests to prevent cheating. Besides, a 7-fish limit does nothing to prevent a team of two close friends who are crooks from caging fish or fishing in restricted areas.

In balance, the 5 fish limit is more attractive to the majority of anglers for many reasons. This CUSTOMER demand is why team circuits changed. As Whoopie Goldberg said it in Sister Act, its all bout "puttin butts in the seat". Its good for business!

Just my personal opinion.

.....NaCl
Cooch

Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by Cooch »

Some of you seem to overlook the fact it was 7 fish for so many years long before this change was made. Was it broken then? It's not like we're going from 5 fish, which has been the norm for ages and asking to increase it to 7. That is a false belief! It was 7 fish limits long before orgs started to drop their limits to five.

And the reason that most of them have given us to support that rule change, was so that anglers who had a team member drop out, bail, work, illness or whatever, could fish for the same limit as the rest of the teams. And there in lies the penalty. It's a team event, not a solo event! 90, two men teams fished for 7 bass, if you had a player not be able to make it, you could only fish for 5 bass, one team is affected. Then somewhere along the line, someone comes up with the bright idea to now drop it to 5 fish, so that that one team per event can compete. To me guys, that's a lame excuse to make it easy for one team versus the other 89. This is why it's called "Team tournaments"! In the good ole days of hard knocks bass fishing, we sucked it up and took our lumps with 5 fish against the rest of the field baggin 7 and took it like a man. Today's bass anglers are soft and will tend to whine about such things. They don't like ta travel, they can't compete against the locals. They want 5 fish cause they can't compete with 7 if they don't have a full team. The guys a guide, he shouldn't be allowed to fish with a kid. I could go on and on, too many anglers today are soft.

Tobe, it does matter, and we've been over this a dozen times. I'm on solid 3 pound fish, I weigh five fer 15 pounds. They guy in boat number 10, he's catching and culling through 2 pounders, 3 minutes before weigh-in he pops an 8 pounder outside the 5mph zone and weighs in 16 pounds ta beat me. That's a lucky bite dude, and we see it happen all the time. Yet if it's a 7 fish limit, my sack of 3 pounders goes 21 pounds, his sack of six 2s and that 8 go 20 pounds. That lucky last minute bight doesn't beat me and my skill of locating overall better quality fish prevails. A whole bunch of anglers "fish chicken" by nature, I don't believe going from 5 to 7 increases that thought process. And I certainly don't see where a guy who is struggling to catch quality fish, has any advantage because of 2 additional fish. If the team is only catching 2 pounders, four more pounds ain't gonna help em, versus the guy who's catch 3s and 4s. Yet if that's the way ya think, sounds like reason enough ta vote fer 7 fish limits, right?

Mr. Martin, you actually bring up a very good point few folks here have thought about. But lets be real here fer a second. How many 15 pounders have you seen weighed in, in a tournament the last 10 years? The numbers for this instance is very remote, much less anyone catching 2, 3 or 4 of them, that size. It's extremely rare to see two fish over 10, much less 7. You have a valid concern in regards to the size of livewells if this should ever happen. I will say though, I believe todays livewells are much large than they have ever been. Over the last 5 years, the boat manufactures have ndeed increased the sizes of livewells. In March of 2003, I and a client brought 7 bass to Big Break in my Stratos, that weighed over 68 pounds total, amazingly, those fish had plenty of room. The chances of what you described happening though, are so remote, I couldn't even phathom the odds. And the odds of that certainly don't warrent, in my mind, dropping the limit to 5 or preventing it from going back to 7. Excellent point though!

RougeBass, I'm not condoning or encouraging guys to break the Fish and Game laws. The laws as they are written, are vague at best in this area. And as I mentioned before, the bass communiting worked with the CDFG, to git written into law, wording and waiviers that allow us to fish in tournaments and not be breaking the law. No reason we can't pursue this same avenue, we're already half way there. If I'm not mistaken, it's now okay for anglers to continue to fish when they have a five fish limit, why would it be any different with 7? They allow us t fish lakes with slot limits by giving us waiviers to do so within the tournament permits. To me, this is a non issue now. Or have I missed something here?

Lake, we STILL agree, this IS a great discussion. Far more entertaining than why that numbnut called my ALL In A/K with his 8/9 offsuit! HAR! HAR! HAR!
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Mike
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by Mike »

I gotta agree with ya Cooch. But, you see the poll? Since the first hour it went up, the % have stayed the same 2 to 1 people perfer a 5 fish limit and I'll tell you why. Most tournament fishermen (68%) fish tournaments for fun, and "hope" to get lucky and get a check. Those are the guys voting for the 5 fish limit. The other (32%) of the guys are fishing tournaments to make money and take it very serious. They are the ones voting for the 7 fish limit. It seems to be two very different thought processes. One is to pre-fish, try to get on the best quality fish, the other is to just go fishing, have fun, and "try" to get a lucky bite.

I would like to have a choice. It sucks that all of the tournaments have gone to 5 fish. Except for some of the amature curcits, which if not open to everyone.
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by Phil »

WELL, WE'RE CHANGING OURS BACK TO (7) FISH. MAKES IT MORE COMPETITIVE AGAINST THE SWIMBAIT FISHERMAN THAT GETS ONE OR TWO FISH AND THE TEAM THAT GETS (7) FISH LIMIT..I.E. LAST YEAR 5 ----FISH LIMIT CAME IN WITH 10 TO 12 LBS.........2 --SWIM BAIT FISH CAME IN ONLY,.---WEIGHING 12 LBS .....ALTHOUGH WINNING TEAM DID COME IN WITH 4 FISH WEIGHING 28 LBS..YET STILL THE TEAM THAT WEIGHS A FULL LIMIT OF 7 WILL BE HIGHER UP IN THE PAYBACK WE BELIEVE.................IF I AM WRONG THEN WE WILL LEAVE IT ALONE AT (5) FISH LIMIT.................PROOF ????

JIGS
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by FATGUY »

morning guys.. both sides make good points but for me ... heck i'm out there for fun and a chance ( lucky) to learn and maybe wina few bucks.. the higher the limit the less chance the average guy has to cash against studs like cooch.. barrack and the studs.. i'll bet more guys are out there in my situation than in coochs.. put on some 7 fish limit touneys and some fives and i would think the fives would out draw the sevens.... if the main object is to let the studs win more then if we went to 9 we would be even at a bigger disadvantage.. coochs reasoning about why help the few at the expense of the many ?? i don't agree because the higher limit hurts more of the average guys that it does the studs and once again i believe there are more average guys than studs...hey cooch when we go out i hope we can both be studs... keep lines wet !!
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Phil »

STRANGE IS'NT IT COOCH...........SEEMS WITH ALL THE INFO COMING IN, MIGHT AS WELL MAKE IT A ONE FISH LIMIT OR DROP TO A THREE FISH LIMIT AND MAYBE THE NOVICE WILL HAVE JUST AS MUCH CHANGE AS THE "STUD" ?? CONFUSSES ME BUT THEN I'M NEW AT THIS GAME JUST STARTED IT ALL ?? ALMOST LIKE NO ONE WANT'S TO PAY THEIR DUES, THE DRIFT IS THAT A GUY STARTING TOMORROW, WANT'S TO BE AS GOOD AS DOBYN'S; REESE; BARACK; MARTENS; KLIEN; THOMAS, "TOMORROW " ALSO.....SO I GUESS OUR THOUGHTS OF ANYONE CAN GO OUT AND GET LUCKY AND TOSS A SWIMBAIT AND MAYBE CATCH A 11 LBR. BUT IT MAY TAKE TALLENT TO CATCH (7) FISH ?? THAT THOUGHT IS NOT FAIR (?) TO THE BEGINNERS...............CONFUSSES ME ???

CYA (SUBJECT DROPPED)!!

JIGS
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by mac (Doyle McEwen) »

Hey Mike, I am one of those that voted for 7, and in no way am I a "bass catching stud"..I voted for seven because I believe in a team format, the limit should be larger than the 1 man limit..In all honesty I don't know why it isn't ten..After all you have two persons in the boat and both should be allowed to weigh in legal limits..

I cannot figure why everyone thinks it is more fair to allow just one limit when two persons are fishing..

mac
Take a kid fishing, and don't forget about us older kids either..
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Mike
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by Mike »

I'm all for 10 too Mac. Two guys in a "team" they each should be able to catch "their" limit and the combined weight should win! Sounds good to me! :wink:
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by RougeBass »

I'm all for that to Mike and Mac. But honestly what do you do if you, yourself have the first 5 fish in the boat and you catch the sixth by law you can not 6 fish your your possesion, also by law you can not catch fish for someone else. Just wondering????
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by FATGUY »

everybody knows that answer they keep fishing.
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Tobe
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by Tobe »

I am just not seeing this theory of seven fish limits benefiting the “seriousâ€
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Rob T
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I voted for 7...

Post by Rob T »

and have cashed checks on five fish limit tourneys. I'm a weekend wannabe, but am willing to put in my time and money (and have done so), since at the end of the day when I fish tourneys it's not to hope I'm luckier than the other guy, it's to prove (at least for that one day) that I'm better than the other guy, and the competition focus for me ultimately is to become a better, not luckier fisherman. Now, this is just my view and goals, and I'm not passing judgement on other's views.

Good luck, and God Bless,

Rob T
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Re: I voted for 7...

Post by FATGUY »

ok all i was trying to say about 7 fish being more benefit to the studs ??? example... if i was to fish 20 days in a row against say cooch when we had a one fish limit. i might beat him once or twice.. make the limt 10 and i probably could fish forever and never beat him .. thats just my example as why a stud like cooch would benefit more than a smalll not too good stick like me... and he deserves the benifit as he puts in a lot more work and skills than most of us.. just my .02... boy i hope the rain holds off saturday at berryessa bob
Cooch

Hey Mike, check out the poll now!

Post by Cooch »

It's 3-2, seems after this discussion and the various views, some minds are thinkin bout this!

Here's my point guys, and this goes out to all those who keep saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". It was originally 7 fish limit for teams for eons. Back then, IT, was NEVER broken. Then, out of no-where, orgs began to drop to five telling us, the vast majority of their anglers want a 5 fish limit! Personally, I think that's a bunch of crock, just look at the numbers in this unscientific poll here? Certainly, a 3-2 vote is not the vast majority, so why was it ever changed in the first place?

Simple answer, to put butts in the seats, or so the orgs thought. Lord knows, ya can go look at all the results of the past 4 years, there ain't nobody putting more butts in the seats, much less because they dropped to a 5 fish limit! Seems to me, the last org ta drop was 100%, they certainly don't have the numbers in the seat that they had the last 5 year when it was a 7 fish limit.

I don't believe any of us can dispute, the fact that it is more challenging to catch 7 vs 5 in a day. You can look back over results of the past years, in events where there is a 7 fish limit, typically only 50% of the field on most days are capable of catching a limit. Certainly there are those of us who like to fish for fun, but the bottom line is this is aa competition where we're fishing for money purses. We should have in place rules that truely test our skills against each other.
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Re: Hey Mike, check out the poll now!

Post by JT-Madera »

OK!!

Cooch, you changed my vote! I have fished tournaments for twenty years. When we first started team tournaments the limit was 7 and we cashed a lot of checks, a lot!! Then I changed partners, my new partner told me up front that there might be times that he would not be able to fish..no problem....ya right..

The first time he didn't make it there was a real tough bite, the kind of bite I live for!!!! You guessed it, I caught five good ones and four other teams had seven....Their seven dinks took me out of the money, i made up my mind to lobby the tournament director to change the limit to five, just in case my partner missed another tournament...He never missed a tournament after that, however,we started cashing fewer checks!!! It made it too easy for teams to compete!!!!!

A seven fish limit rewards teams for their commitment and ability to catch fish...A five fish limit rewards teams who aren't committed and I still havn't seen an increase in turnout....

Korny, has increased the payback, now I need a team partner committed to excellence to take advantage of it... Maybe Korny will go back to seven and make it easier on us old guys to cash a check...

{my old partner started duck hunting and you know how that ruins a guy, something about blowing cwackers out of the sky and standing in a cold wet blind.}

Give me a cold wet boat sticking little green fish anyday,,,har, har...

JT-Madera

My old partner is a great stick and reliable friend and I am just funning with him,,,,,Damn ducks,,, he he....
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Re: Hey Mike, check out the poll now!

Post by bassindon69 »

I have not voted but I would say 5 Because I can not fit 7 in the wells these days LOL!!!I could not hold 3 at over 35 lbs. I did always like the double weigh ins (5 & 5) in the night tourneys. It seemed to make it tougher for many to get 10 fish. But there has been 2 times in a tourneys now that I had to give up fishing time to make sure I get the fish out of the live wells. It is just to crowded with 7 fish and that is with only 30+ limits. You show me a boat that can hold a 7 fish limit over 50 to 60 lbs and I would say 7 fish limit is ok. Till then keep it at 5. More and more big sacks are being brought to the scales. It would be a shame to kill some big fish just to weigh them in for a check, at any lake. Sure a 7 fish limit tests the skills but lets not push the limits of what the live wells can hold.

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Mike
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Re: Hey Mike, check out the poll now!

Post by Mike »

I dont buy the livewell as being a issue here. Look at the some of the weights in the last bass tournament that Ish won. He was catching 25-30 pound limits and his am was catching fish too. So Ish had to put his fish in one side of his livewell in a 19' Ranger. I didn't hear about any dead fish. So I think a team can fit 7 with no problem.
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I agree, the livewell argument doesn't hold water!

Post by Rob T »

HAR! But seriously folks, the livewell/aerator systems, along with the catch and release additives one can use now versus years back when we had 7 fish limits are superior overall today in most modern boats.

Good luck,
and God Bless,

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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Lugnut »

I voted for 7 and here is a couple reasons why.

First of all it is harder for two people to catch 7 fish then to catch 5. I know it is not always a problem with the quality of todays tournament anglers, but we typically (I know not always) see the numbers of limits drop each day at tournaments held on the local lakes. I would think these qaulity tournament anglers would want a 7 fish limit to give them an advantage.

Second thing is I like to see the BIG weights and with 7 fish the chances are higher.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Tobe »

Hey Cooch,

Maybe you have a point, I am trying to understand it but I cannot.

Who will benefit from this seven fish limit because the teams I keep seeing bringing home checks are the teams with the outstanding anglers not the lucky ones, where are these lucky anglers you speak of?

My point is this, if you are one of those teams usually cashing the checks, why in the world would you want a change, are you saying these teams will find it hard to catch 2 more fish?

As far as you claiming it is harder to catch seven than five I will agree with you, however you must be talking about average size fish (2-3.5lbs)
Will you agree that going for 5-6 bites all day to get the big bag is much harder? These are the bags that pick up the checks.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just cannot grasp this seven fish benefits the better anglers theory.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by vinnybass »

After reading this thread I think I'd rather fish for seven too. Even though my partner & I only get a check once in a while I'd still rather have the extra weight since a couple more fish on Mead could really make a difference. I've only fished tourneys for two years so I never knew anything but a five fish limit, but I'd like to give it (seven) a go.

There is one thing though, after we've caught three or four each & culled a few fish I have no idea which ones in the livewell belong to whom. I guess we'd have to keep them separate to keep track of personal limits & cull accordingly.

Here's another point: Assume angler "A" has five fish with the smallest being a two pounder. Angler "B" has just caught his third fish, with the smallest one being under two. Do they cull the two pounder so "A" can still fish (legally) & keep the smaller fish? Or does "A" stop fishing so they can keep the two pounder? Or do they ignore the personal limit & both keep fishing (and culling) no matter if all seven they weigh-in were caught by one guy?

Does this make sense or have I missed something?
Anyway, I think I'd still like seven.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by RougeBass »

Well a waiver indicating that possesion would be for the "Team" would solve all issues with that.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by FATGUY »

i just have trouble believing anyone quits fishing if he had five and his partner had none.. as far as the argument " i like the bigger weight totals" ?? thats just a macho push out my chest thing and we all like that ..
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by vinnybass »

RougeBass wrote:Well a waiver indicating that possesion would be for the "Team" would solve all issues with that.
Yup
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by vinnybass »

BOB G wrote:i just have trouble believing anyone quits fishing if he had five and his partner had none.. as far as the argument " i like the bigger weight totals" ?? thats just a macho push out my chest thing and we all like that ..
Yup
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This whole thread is laughable!

Post by NaCl »

This whole discussion revolves around the "unfairness" of some solo angler beating the field because he lucked into a large kicker fish.

Well, that solo slob is already fishing with a 50% handicap....1 pole against everybody else's 2 poles! Isn't that enough of a handicap? Some people advocate a FURTHER handicap for him with a 2-fish penalty!!! Talk about chicken. I can't believe anyboldy would be so afraid of a solo angler that they would want to heap an extra 2-fish penalty on him. Good Lord, if that guy patterns quality fish to win, MORE POWER TO HIM! He overcame 2:1 odds...he's a stud! If he just lucks into a huge kicker, MORE POWER TO HIM...he enjoyed one of those rare moments when fishin luck was on his side! Either way, I'm gonna congratulate him. I;m not gonna whine about if only I had two more fish than him.

The other argument FOR a 7-fish limit is that it might force solo anglers to skip the event. Some say this will reduce cheating. That's a bunch of crap! During my 20 years of tournament fishing, EVERY cheater I've heard of getting caught WAS a team! Shasta, Clearlake....it was always two guys! Not some solo guy sneaking off to his fish traps. That's just plain paranoid. And, if you REALLY want to eliminate cheaters, bring back the polygraph tests for the first 2 or three teams! They worked. Back during the Record Bee events on Clearlake, one of the first place teams took their polygraph test. The first member of the team passed quickly. The other guy failed initially. Things looked bad for that team. Turns out the second guy was embarrassed that his partner had caught all their fish and he lied about having caught some of their winning weight. The polygraph test was applied a second time and the guy fessed up to not catching any of their limit. They got a huge check for first place and almost lost it BECAUSE of a simple lie. I became a believer in these tests when I saw that happen.

I personally don't make my decisions based on whether its a 5 or 7 fish team circuit. I'm fishing for the enjoyment of the tournament. It's far more important to me how well the events are run. What is the overall payback....like the impressive 100% Bass cash payouts or the Anglers Choice three-boat TOC. I'd fish Korny's circuit with a 7-fish limit before I'd fish the Joe-Blow 5-fish circuit with an 80% payback AFTER deducting expenses (ends up being 60-70% actual payout). But, if Korny's offering a 5-fish limit, so much the better! And, for the guys who are always whining about turnout, that 2-fish penalty for a solo angler, might just keep a few boats off the water when the ovarall payback could have been bigger.

As far as the livewell capacity argument, it IS valid! Sure, Ish had a monster limit in his 19' boat with no lost fish. He's also got a brand new, state-of-the-art livewell system in that boat. MANY team participants are driving older boats, sometimes in great condition and sometimes not. Add to that, the obvious poor care that a lot of team anglers provide for fish and, if you increase the team limit by 40%, then the number of dead fish will increase by 40%. I can't support that. Especially when the principle argument is just to give an even bigger advantage to those who already hold a 2:1 advantage.

So, I'll continue to advocate for the 5-fish limits in team events. But, I will also fish whatever circuit does the best job with event management and payback..whether its a 5 or 7 or 10 fish limit.

This subject has been beat to death. I'm done with it.

.....NaCl
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by Rob »

Cooch hit it right on the head. First of all it is competition, and fishing against the best only makes you better. I've donated my share, but its all good because I had fun, enjoyed the competition and fishing against guys who consistently bring in big weights should push you to figure out how they do it. How many times have you seen a big fish with four rats jump up and get a good check? I'd love to be that lucky all the time, but catching 5 or 7 quality fish should be rewarded and with 5 fish it isn't always so. JMHO and I'm just the average guy fishing weekends.....

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Post by Mike R »

I have always been a 7 fish limit guy... I just DON'T fish ANY team circuits that are five fish limits. Thats how I vote.
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Re: Here's the disadvantage.......

Post by swimbait »

To me the fundamental question here is:

Does a tournament measure skill by measuring who can catch the most fish or does it measure it by who can catch the biggest fish.

Guys who catch a lot of fish will vote for 7 because it favors them. Guys who catch less fish but bigger fish will vote for 5 because it favors them.

Me personally, I'd like to see the limit at 3 8) I hate trying to catch a limit in tournaments and I usually don't. If tournament directors decide to put it at 7 because they feel like the guy who catches 3 for 25 pounds isn't better than the guy who catches 7 for 26lbs, that's their choice. TD's should always play to their constituency to get as many entries as possible so I won't take it personal if people go to 7.
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Re: 5 or 7?

Post by Mike »

Well there you have it. It looks like people are divided on this. So shouldn't the curcits be divided too? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't NBW the only pro team tournament that is still 7 fish?
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