STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

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JT-Madera
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STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by JT-Madera »

I fished the Shasta Tournament and one of my Pro's stated that he believed that co-anglers should stop fishing when they have a limit.. Since at that time I had already caught over ten keepers and he only had one, in the boat, I assumed he wanted me to quit fishing!!!

He said at Clearlake one of his co-anglers caught 16lbs off his spot and hurt his chances of makeing the cut...

What do you guys think??

Should I stop fishing after I have a limit?

Thanx for your advice, I value your responses!!!

JT-Madera
justin lucas
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by justin lucas »

heck no...you paid to be there just like he did. you have all the right in the world to fish all day even if you had 20 pounds!!!
Randy Yeager
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by Randy Yeager »

No, I don't think you should stop fishing but, I do think that if he took you to some good fish and your whipping him with your baits or technique, Boater willing of course, you should do all you can to help him start getting bit too.

Share your baits, tell him what little trick you're using that he's not, whatever you think might be the difference.

Keep in mind though, if it's a multiple day tourney, he can come back to that water and you can't so don't beat up his fish. He might be able to come back later and whack em using his techniques.

On the other hand, he also has the option of leaving that spot if he thinks your beating up his fish.

Don't forget to show your apprecaition for what he's done for you.
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by JT-Madera »

Just a little clarification/////my five keepers only weighted 6lbs..so i was not takeing anything of value...

I was dropshoting and he was darterheading and I tried to show him what i was doing and even offered some of my worms...He wouldn't slow down and I was fishing as slow as he would allow me to..Actually he would pull me away from bites if I told him I was getting bit....Finally I just kept quiet about bites...

My question is; should I quit fishing after the first limit!!!

I have fished spots for over 40 years and he didn't have a clue how to catch larger spots in those terrible conditions....and it isn't my place to tell the Pro what he is doing wrong...

Maybe FLW should go to shared weight...but that is another question..

JT-Madera
Dewayne
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Re: No

Post by Dewayne »

Under those circumstances you should still fish. Now, if it were day 2 and you had enough weight to make the cut already, then backing off the fish might be expected.
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NaCl
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Ditto.......your entry fee gave you the right to fish.

Post by NaCl »

As far as any "courtesy" between the pro and the nonboater, courtesy is EARNED! If a guy is helping you succeed...advice, baits, boat positioning, then I would make every effort to reciprocate the courtesy. But, if the other guy is intentionally making life difficult, then I'm only going to do those things that help me achieve MY objective. If that measn sticking fish, then so be it! Of course, I would not do anything to intentionally interfere with his fishing, but he surely would not earn any concessions from me.

.....NaCl
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JamesH
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by JamesH »

I agree with Dewayne. If I knew I was going to make the cut, I might quit fishing but other than that it's just sour grapes.
At Clear Lake, my 2nd day pro had no fish going and I was in the top 25 so he basically took me wherever I wanted to go, now that is class... I culled 4 times that day but he ended up catching 3 fish. One of his fish was the 4lber that I needed to make the cut. Should he have quit fishing before that so I had a better chance at that fish? I don't think so.....

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Did a little research....

Post by JamesH »

Thanks to the internet, I was able to do a little research. The co-angler your pro was talking about, used that 16lb limit to make the cut at Clearlake! With his day one limit, he needed a bag like that to make the cut.
If he had layed down his rod, like the pro suggested to you, I doubt he would have made the cut.
I would have to say that if someone out there is fishing as a pro and can't stand the thought of a co-angler catching "your fish", then you should stick with the shared weight format.
Also, if your pro was intentionally pulling you away from bites, I would say that would qualify as "backseating" and grounds for disqualification.....

Just my .02

James
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Re: Did a little research....

Post by Fast 492 »

I agree with Dewayne and NaCal, I had a Pro at Havasu that said right from the start that he had nothing going. When I caught a fish on a dart head at 10:00 he told me that if I could catch one more I would make the first cut and he spent the rest of his day trying to get me one more bite, I gave him the worm I was using and he ended up catching one with 5 minutes to go, a total class act fisherman. My day two Pro was a diffent story, when I caught my second fish he hit it with the net, and my third he hit my line first then he hit the fish before I yelled a few obsenities, he didn't speak to me for over an hour... The point is treat others as you would want them to treat you and what comes around goes around, some time or another.... For the most part ALL of the Pro's???? I have drawn have been great guys and alot of fun to fish with, but remember you are there to catch fish too !!!
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Dewayne
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Re: James

Post by Dewayne »

It's very unlikely that a pro would be DQed for pulling off his water. If that were that case, I would have been DQed on several occasions. Pulling off good water to save it for later days is very common place. Just like saving good areas for day 3 and day 4 when you know you will make the cut. Fact is any weight above what is needed to make the cut is thown away.

I have pulled of spots because I had the weight I needed (many times my co-angler did to for that day) to make the cut. I have also pulled off are when I draw a co-angler that refuses to work with me. For instance one year at Havasu I had a bed that had an 8# on it. One co-angler insisted on fishing that bed, so I pulled off the bed to the middle of the cove so we could talk before I returned. There was some great fishable water in the area with a better chance of catching a fish than trying to hit the bed. It was funny, earlier in the day I encouraged him to throw a Senko to the open water behind the boat as I had caught a fish there in pre-fish. Instead he got frustrated and just sat there. To show him I made a cast with A Senko to the open water behind the boat and caught a fish that helped me, but it should have been his had he listened.

Rules state we have control over the boat. We also cannot handicap a co-angler from fishing. Don't confuse these two. While they are open to interpretation, choice of where we fish and when is the boaters choice.

Personally I always operate on the "How would I want to be treated" mode. If the co-angler works with me I work hard to get them the weight they need for that day to make the cut. If they work against me then I fish what I need to fish and do not get concerned about how they are doing.
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Paul W
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Re: LOL

Post by Paul W »

That is crazy, he was just mad because you were backseating him bad. Like Justin said, you paid your entry fees and therefore have the right to catch fish and enjoy your day. No way in heck I'm going to pay my entry fee then have some pro tell me I should quit fishing!!!!!

Paul W
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Re: Did a little research....

Post by BLAZER 210 »

I wish I could draw a good guy on the first day of one of the flw's I have had great guys on the second day in both tournaments that I've fished but my first day guys have probly kept me form making the cut not that they weren't good guys to BS with but I have been back seated the first day in two tournaments and its bull sh!!! we pay good money to have a fair chance to catch fish too and I always give them plenty of gas money. In the weigh in line at shasta you should have heard the non boaters complaining about getting back seated I couldn't belive what i was hearing. All I got to say is if this crap is pulled with me at the delta somebody is gonna get wet and it won't be me. This will be the last time I fish as a nonboater, just thought I would try it this year to see how the big boys do it never again. It seem that it is pretty much a drawing contest and hope you get paired with good guy that is willing to share the water and give you a chance to catch some fish the first day otherwise your done for the week.
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by Barry »

I disagree with the the Pro who said a co-angler should stop fishing. I would laugh at his joke. As Dewayne pointed out , "The Pro has control of the boat". If he thinks his co-angler is beating up his water he can leave. As to being backseated, what is that at Shasta? Fish were in 2 to 60 feet of water(Not that I could put keepers in the boat) I had 2 great Pro's who tried to get me fish and I still couldn't do it. My bad. At any rate, there is a waiting list for these tournaments. A complaint to the tournament director and a discussion between the 3 of you would go a long way toward straightening these misunderstandings out. Maybe not your day but might help the next guy(Pro or Am). Just my .02. Good luck to all at the Delta and congrats to the guys and gals who did do well at Shasta......Barry
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Re: Dewayne

Post by JamesH »

I actually completely agree with you, I understand as a pro you don't want to beat up your spots, but I think we read the post differently.

When JT said "Actually he would pull me away from bites if I told him I was getting bit"

I assume the pro was manuvering the boat away from every spot JT would get bit, not that JT was beating up his water. He was just trying to keep him from catching those fish. That sounds like he was handicapping his ability to fish.

With 1 fish in the boat, I don't think he was trying to save anything for later.

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This is the truth for the non-shared weight tourny

Post by Kentuck »

It's my opinion that these non-shared weight tourny's that the Am's are completely at the mercy of the draw and then the helpfullness of the pro. Both are trying to do well but if the pro is making the cut and the am is sticking good fish, time to move. Oh well for the am. That's bs for the pro to say they should quit fishing or try and knock fish off. But in my opinion, it's all who you draw to how well you do on the AM side.
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Back Seated

Post by rickyshabazz »

What does it mean to be back seated? How can a pro back seat you on a lake like Shasta where there are fish from 0-100 feet?

I would love to hear the story.

Being back seated us a very subjective and easy thing to accuse a Pro of doing.
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Re: Back Seated

Post by JamesH »

I personally have never been backseated and most of the time when I do hear other co-anglers talking about it, I would have to agree that it is B.S. It is usually just a conflict in fishing styles. It's hard to flip a jig from the back of the boat when they guy in the front is covering water with a rip bait.
That is just a reality that co-anglers have to face. I have had a shallow senko bite going and drawn a pro that was dragging tubes and jigs at 50'.
It is up to the co-angler to adapt to the pro's pattern, sometimes that can be frustrating but I wouldn't call it backseating.

James
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Finally-Someone with a great point

Post by rickyshabazz »

Man-Thank you for making the best post on this topic tha I've ever read.

It is up to the co-angler to adjust to the Pro and not the other way around.

Great post.
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by 225by5 »

While fishin the BASS @ Clear Lake on day 2 with Gary Boyd I had about 8 pounds in the live well he had around 10.With about 1:45 left in the day he told me he had a spot where on of us could get a big bite. I thought that was very kind. Sure enough I was lucky to dropshot a fish that went 6.9. I knew my two day weight would be enough to make the cut so I stopped fishin for about 20 or so min. before Gary ever the pros pro told me not to give up and keep fishin. I told him I was letting him have a shot at his water to which he replied I appreciate that but were in this together. Keep fishin. True class act....Another great example is Dewayne Bohnam. He was my draw the next day And he seemed more concerned with me catchin fish than him. He put me all around fish but it just wasn't my day. I've been very blessed in my draws and have never experinced being backseated. Ifn a pro catches his limit should he stop fishin for the am to catch up? I don't think so.....
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by MasterBassinator »

My first day pro in FLW was ehhhh. He fished way too fast for me. If you asked me he switched baits too fast and I had a hard time keeping up with him. Kinda made me mad a little bit. He was basically junk fishing. Now the second day pro was a great guy. I had the oppurtunity to fish with George Galletti (not sure of the spelling) but had a great time. Always made sure that we were both fishing the same speed. Let me even use some of his baits too... Anyways great guy.
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GREAT POINT!

Post by Colebass »

It's the co-anglers, am's, AAA or whatever each org calls them to adapt to the pro's style, not the other way around!

When I was an am, I fished with Aaron Martens in pre-fish on many occassion. Then in the event would draw someone who wasn't even close to fish (like I was at Shasta! :D ). It was hard not to say something but it makes you a better angler.
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question?? THANKS TO ALL

Post by JT-Madera »

I want to thank everyone for their responses to my post...

You all have great idea's and opinions, I place a high value on all your thoughts and comments....

It is great to be able to read all the different views and then sit back and reflect on them..

I have fished from the front of the boat for too long I guess, I would never backseat another angler, this experence has taught me many valuable lessons on how to treat my co-anglers in the future.

Next year I will go back to the front and do my best to make sure my fishing partners have a good experence...

When I get to old for this I will just fade away and leave the back of the boat to someone else with more patience..........................

Thanx all

JT-Madera

See ya all at the Delta!!!!
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Re: GREAT POINT!

Post by mark poulson »

Is it okay to give the Pro general info. about your prefish, like we found them in 10' of water on main lake points on worms, without giving either your perfish partner's name or specific locations?
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Re: Back Seated

Post by palmdale-shane »

rickyshabazz.........

Are you serious Ricky. I know you know about being back seated. Did you forget about when you used to fish from the back of the boat? Oh yeah the frog bite is still wide open at the Fin...LOL

-Shane
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by rickd »

I drew a guy on the second day of the Delta Bassmaster tournie and thought the same thing. He told me what we were going to do the day prior, dropshot and never fished that way before didn't even have a rig for it. After fishing with him a while seeing him catch all the fish was ticking me off. He said that after he got a good sack he would give me a rig... I ended up with a check but missed the cut by one ounce! Since then I have bought 2 dropshot rigs and have become quite good with the setup. I was ticked for months until I finally realized that I learned a big lesson and need to thank him when I see him next.

The other thing I learned is never tell your next day pro that you beat your day 1 pro!
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Re: Back Seated

Post by Noluk »

I think Ricky was serious and I have to agree in some ways. How can you be backseated at Shasta? If your pro is choosing to fish in a manner that is not conducive to how you WANT to fish it realy is up to you to adjust. Even if the pro catches a big old zero for the day, he is fishing the water and technique that he feels is most likely to give him the oppurtunity to do well.

Throwing a ripbait parrallel to the shoreline, with the boat in 15 feet of water 10 feet off the bank is NOT backseating the am. It is admittedly very tough on the am especialy with that FLW rule regarding no casting to the front of the boat. But it is the responsibility of the am to adjust if that si how the pro feels he can catch his best limit. And yes it surely does suck to be that person in the back on that particular day, but you can try a few things that may net you a good limit, even under those circumstances. Pro-ams are not and should not be guide trips. You can learn a ton of things both in how and why the pro fishes and you can learn to adpat alot of your own techniques but the pro has to be expected to position the boat in such a manner to maximize HIS potential catch. Heck the front of the boat probably does that in 99% of the shared weight and even team tournaments as well.

It is a fact of life that speed and tempo in fishing is what many people have the most trouble adjusting too. If an am wants to dropshot and the pro wants reaction bait fish there will be some differences. Heck the winning weights on Shasta came on swimbaits on humps over 100 feet of water... I bet the average am there didn't come prepared to adapt to that situation. I do not know how the am's did who fished with folks on that pattern, but if the am wasn't prepared to adapt to that situation, surely noone would expect the pro to abandon it so that the am could dropshot?

For the folks who haven't fished from the front. The WORST feeling I have ever had in tournaments is as the pro who doesn't have anything going on. It happens more often than not when your still paying your dues and stepping up to the next level. But I am certain there isn't a person on this board who hasn't walked out the door with high hopes in the morning and returned home with a big zero at the day's end. Every pro will do his best on any given day. But at that end of the day, someone is going to be in first and someone is going to be last. If the only folks who fished these tournaments were the ones who were on fish and had previosuly won a pro-am, it would be a mighty small field and it wouldn't be showing much growth.
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Re: This is a good string of posts.

Post by Dewayne »

I would have to agree with Ricky. Backseating someone on Shasta is almost impossible. Far too many co-anglers use getting "back seated" as an excuse rather than just admitting they had a bad tournament. As a boater you can see it coming many times. For instance, I tell my non-boater that I am fishing jigs on rocks and docks. Co-angler says he will be fishing Cranks and Rip Baits. He is trying to run and gun from the back while I am slow working areas with jigs. Was he backseated, or did he just choose the wrong tool for the job at hand? I will often suggest they follow me up with a drop shot and/or Senko, but some guys are locked on what they want to fish.

Being successful as a co-angler requires a person to be versitile and fish their best tool (technique) for the particular situation they are in at the time. If you killed them ripping the day before because your boater was running and gunning points, it may not be the right technique the next day when you draw someone that is slowly fishing for deeper fish. It is the co-anglers job to adjust and the ones who frequently finish near the top adjust quickly. Many of the complaints of back seating come from guys who (IMHO) do not fully understand the challenge they face in competing as a co-angler. The challenge is to find a technique that compliments the boaters style and gives the co-angler the best chance to catch fish that the boater has missed. What is their best option cannot be determined till they see the boaters fishing speed, style, utilization of techniques, and overall program. Matching what the boater is throwing is seldom the proper thing to do as you are trying to catch the fish he just caught.

James, Yea. Pulling away in the middle of a bite would be a problem. I did leave a few points with bitting fish that I did not feel were the right fish, not that I ever found the right fish at Shasta. I sucked. Personally, I did tell my non-boaters to let me know when they were getting bit so I did not hit the TM. Some fish were taking 15-20 seconds to actually eat the bait.
Last edited by Dewayne on Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Great Post

Post by rickyshabazz »

I really liked your post and I could not have said it any better. I can only think back to the three years that I spent fishing as a non-boater (am) in both shared weight and non-shared weight tournaments. I went to learn and everything that has helped me to cash checks on most of the lakes out West was learned during those years as a non-boater.

Most pros would never knowingly backseat a non-boater. However, most non-boaters think that they should have a say so in the fishing day and they “mayâ€
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Re: This is a good string of posts.

Post by NaCl »

But, would you ever tell your nonboater to STOP fishing because he had a limit? I wouldn't.

.....NaCl
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Re: Tell...no, Ask.....Yes

Post by Dewayne »

There is a scenario where I could see myself asking them to stop fishing. It it was day 2 of the Stren and based on day one weights we knew the co-angler had made cut weight with a comfortable cussion.

A few years ago on the Delta I needed 18# and my co-anglers needed about 14# to make the cut. Day one we left the good water at 9:30 as we both had the weight we needed. On day 2 my non-boater hit them good in the morning and had the weight he needed before I had the weight I needed to make the cut. I do not remember, but I may have asked him to lay off my primary water till I made cut weight so we could leave. At 10:00am when we left my primary water we spent the rest of the day prefishing other water leaving pleanty of time to improve our weights.

The only case would be if the co-angler was solidly in the cut and any additional weight would just be thrown away at the end of the day. I would never insist, just ask. I have found that most of the time when you have someone on the right fish to make the cut they are more than willing to work with you. I just wish I was in that position more often. :)
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Re: Tell...no, Ask.....Yes

Post by mac (Doyle McEwen) »

Now that makes sense Dewayne..If everyone based their thoughts the same way, there would be far fewer complaints..But as we all know, everyone is different and their expectations are different also..

mac
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question?? 400 anglers...

Post by Rich hamilton »

400 different ways of doing things as well as 400 different beliefs. Simply stated "NO" the angler in the front of the boat was incorrect and I believe that the rules are very specific for all to read and follow. To respond to the other great thoughts in this thread, simply put, all that 400 anglers have in common is the love to fish for bass and it ends there. To try to bottle up beliefs. theories, hersay etc into rules is simply somebody's opinion. Everyone's definiton of sportsmanship even differs. About all a person can do is confront the problem as it arises if they feel it is a battle worth fighting. The time to take care of the issue is as it is happening. I would like to point out that this type of thing happens in every circuit out there and about the only way to somewhat control it is through peer pressure. One valuable lesson in business is to keep the customer coming back for more. so if people are wronged or the rules are broken, simply contact Chris Jones as he is about as good as it gets out there in the business and he and his staff care about doing the right thing. RR
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by R watts »

JT,

I agree with many about not backing off and agree with backing off if your pretty sure you will make the cut!! I feel your frustration because I had my share of it in the same event. (Aside from FLW is great, Chris and his crew are the best I have dealt with in a circuit that size and I had a great time)

I was in 15th place going into day 2. I knew I needed around 7. 6 to 8 lbs to make the cut. I fished with a pro from Japan, that came in just for this event and spoke very very little english. He was in 60th place going into day 2.

I know what you have to do as co-angler and what is expected. I too had to adust to his style of fishing from the get go, and it was very frustrating at first. We were drop-shotting very fast. Faster than I felt sufficiantly covered the areas. So I tried to adjust. Throw in the language issue and it multipled the frustration ten times.

I wasn't looking for or expecting 10 lbs I was fishing for what I needed. I would have packed my gear and stowed it away as soon as I made the weight that I felt I needed to make the cut and stayed out of his way the rest of the day!!

Each person has their own experiance, mine was frustrating. I adjusted and did what I could to get the fish that I had. There was no love coming from the front of that boat. Maybe it was
language issue or something else, I don't know. He seemed like a really nice guy and a great fisherman but fished like he was the only one in the boat.

No matter what anyone says there are 2 people fishing for a purpose, both have, travel, hotel, gas, food, pre-fish, and many other expenses. There has to be consideration both ways or there will always be a shortage of co-anglers to fill the spots.

I have not heard too many bad stories about Pro fisherman and I think this is because none of them were born pros and know what it is like to fish as a co-angler.

Many of these situations make you think twice about fishing as a co-angler in a individual event. I have fished both types now and there are pros and cons to both.

I missed the cut by 3 ounces, I don't blame anyone I just wish I would have done a little better.

I had a really good time and met some great people that will probably turn into great friends. I also took some things home with me from this trip, things to consider and things not to.
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Re: STREN SERIES Co-Angler Question??

Post by gunnie2 »

Every pro on this board has backseated his AM or Co-angler at one time or another. Don't even deny it. Some pros are a little more sly about it but you all have done it. Particularly if your CO- is stompin your butt that day.

"to learn & ensure the pro doesn't cheat". Give me a break! Pro's aren't God's [Dobyns & Reese excluded of course] and Co-anglers arent second class citizens. To even ask a Co-angler to quit fishing is just pure BS.
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I would TOTALLY disagree with you

Post by Colebass »

I have NEVER backseated a co-angler. Many guys have fished with me and I have treated everyone with respect and class.

We didn't always catch tons of fish, but I think everyone would say they were treated fair and given every chance to catch fish!
Dave Cole
Fast 492
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:42 pm
Location: Nor Cal

Good points Ricky !!

Post by Fast 492 »

Ricky, you have a lot of good points in your posts, but don't think for a second that I am just there to learn, I also have alot of money,time etc... on the line... I am definately there to learn also but as stated earlier by others, this is not a guide trip but a chance to do well and get your name out there with the others that do well also. I have learned something from EVERY "pro" I have drawn, even if it is how not to do something, and have enjoyed all of my experiences with these guys, they have taught me how to be versitile and more open minded than I ever was before and for that I am eternally thankful, this was ONE of the reasons I chose this circuit.
Thank you to all of the men/women who make this possible !!!!
The only sport besides golf that you can only blame yourself !!!

Jason Bubier-Director
NorCal90 Fishing
WildWestBassTrail, CA
530-230-8868
530-589-2601
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