Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

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Jim Conlow Sr.
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Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

Obviously there is a lot of interest in this subject because there have been a ton of postings on the subject.
My purpose in this posting is to encourage more people to participate in these tournaments regardless of who the promotor of the tournament is.
If I come on this forum and badmouth the tournaments regardless of which organization, How many peole fail to enter tournaments because of my comments?
Our criticisims even though well meant need to be carefully worded so as not to do more harm than good.
We all need to recognize that the luck of the draw is a gamble. There is someone in the room who is going to win the tournament and someone who is going to come in last and that we as Ams all have an equal chance at each of those Pros. In a one hundred boat entry tournament that pays back one in five there are going to be 20 boats that get a check and 80 people who did not get a check. If you are doing this for the money and not because you love to fish, then it would more than likely be more profitable to get a weekend job at Mcdonalds.
Skill and luck are the two main components of getting a check. In some instances either one of these components could be greater than the other and be cause of your winning or not. I certainly dont like relying on luck but I will take good luck over bad anyday of the week.
In a Pro/Am tournament if the pros dont enter the ams cant fish. If the Ams dont enter the pros may not be able to fish.
This is becoming a book so I will just say that what we need to do is accept the fact that we cannot control who our partner is for the day is and simply accept the terms and conditions of things as they are and go out there to learn and enjoy. If you get a check that is a bonus and a hope, not an expectation
When all is said and done you wouldnt even be reading this drivel if you did not love to fish
Last edited by Jim Conlow Sr. on Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fishin' Dave
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Re: Peo/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Fishin' Dave »

So Jim, are you the Peo?

I have fished Pro/Ams, but I am excited for these Peo/Ams

(Note...Jim may edit the subject line later, but right now it reads "Peo/Am tournament Bass Fishing)
Don't be lame. It's just fishing; you are not the new mesiah you know! Check your attitude at the door Mr. Spinners on da boat trailer.
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Re: Peo/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by eagle123777 »

dave...dave...dave.....
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Jim Conlow Sr.
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Yeah a typo Dave thanks for catching it for me*NM*

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

*NM*
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Tom Sharp »

Thanks Jim...........
I to Get PE Oed at the Pro/AM events, and it is luck of the Draw. I just can not stand the so called Pro that forgot to prefish or just did not have the time, and then can not find fish to save his soul..........
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Come on Guys

Post by Ricky-S »

Two of my best finishes last year came during tournaments that I DID NOT PREFISH. Both were on the Delta. Some of us have fished these lakes enough that practice doesn't do anything but validate what you already new before you arrived to fish.

Fishing tournaments isn't the only thing that is luck of the draw. I have drawn some of my worse non-boaters during shared weight events. guys that you have to beg to fish your baits or guys that you have to fish a certain way.

As a boater and non-boater I prefer the non-shared weight events. Fishing as a boater is as much luck of the draw as fishing as a non-boater.

Thank God 99% of my experiences as a boater and non-boater have been positive.
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by sickofdinks »

I wonder how that pro feels that enters as a pro knowing he will be fishing with an am and does not prefish or has very little experiance as a pro. I mean the pro is basicly ruining the chance that am has at getting a check. That am just blew a couple hundred bucks because some guy that owns a boat thought he would enter as a pro. The pro has the responsibility to put you both on fish its his job to know what hes doing. The am is there to help out but is there to learn and have a great day fishing.

If the pro hasnt prefished or has very little experiance with his new boat all he is doing is throwing away the money that am spent.

Granted it can go the other way also. That pro may have counted on the am knowing how to fish and doing what the pro needs hin to do to get them fish but dont count on that am. He is the amature.

Looking at the results from the AC Pro Am there were some pros that may have not been up to the task for whatever reason and ruined the chance that am had at doing well.
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When you look at the results of a BASS elite 50

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

Someone always comes in first and someone always comes in last
Robert Lee who won the BASS topurnament 4 years in a row in the delta, a feat that has never been done by anyone else on any lake since the Begginning of BASS tournaments was skunked 3 days straight at Havasu as were many other top pros all of whom tied for last place
Does that mean the shouldnt have entered the tournament? And if they had not then the Ams would have has to stay home too, and then someone else would have come in last
Last edited by Jim Conlow Sr. on Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe W.
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Joe W. »

Honestly, as a long time reader of this site and someone who has never fished a bass tournament I have to say that a lot of the post on here regarding pro/ams makes me very nervous about entering one.
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I've been reading these Pro/Am threads

Post by Kelly Ripa »

on the NorCal side for some time now. It seems 50:50 split between those who like or dislike the venue. I stopped fishing competitivly ( cast for cash ) a few years back as I wasn't bring home the dough I had anticipated. That I considered to be my "fault" and as such I needed to brake away and go back to fishing for entertainment only. I fished the Federation and I fished in a team in another circut. Fishing can be humbling in so many ways and I felt that my backseat in both circuits had ample opportunity to either fish against or with me as the format required. Because I am in aerospace I could not be on the water as much as the other boys and that was a big part of my decission to leave fishing as a sport because in short I could not compete at the same level as the others in these circuits.

I recently began fishing again in the Top Stick series that has come to SoCal thanks to John Barron. No am should consider this or any series a cash cow if they get the ichiban number one pro going into any event as humans sometimes do not always perform up to their or others expectations because...They are human! I began this series and will finish it by trying my best to defend the " TEAMS " honor from the back deck. I didn't care that I'd prefished every week for a month prior to my tournament as that isn't what my job was the day of the tournament. My gut level feeling is that I'm there to perform as best I can with the conditions I'm presented AND if my pro has not prefished or has, is of little consequence to me as I'm here to fish as my pro's other rod. What would my pro be doing if he wasn't doing what he is :????

I called my pro after our draw and we put our heads and collective stratagies "TOGETHER " so that on race day we were as homogenous as two guys who had never met before could be. That is why this format is such a big help to new or up and coming angler's. We fished my pro's water all day and I never once was even tempted to offer advice, stratagies, areas or observations as I felt that only would muddy the working relationship I had with my pro. When I missed a fish twice on a jig and threw back a dropshot and caught our big fish for the day it was because my instincts as a fisherman required me to change up. It is a shared weight format and I didn't ask permission to change up as I am still the one who is fishing on that back deck and if it requires of me a different stratagy ( for the moment ) AND I'm not scewing up my PRO by making a change than it is okay in my book.

All this yammering about what it takes to be a pro ( skills vs. money ) is not an issue. Someguys are better than others and that's the truth but it isn't why you do or don't have a good day it's all in how you measure it. You can have a great day fishing and still not have enjoyed your day on the lake with your draw and it's possible to have a really bad day ( LLC...Low Livewell Count :D ) and have one of your best experience on the water ever for whatever reason.

I am older now ( 50 in April ) and I am not out on the water to prove anything to anyone I just like to fish. I have alot of clubs in my bag and can fish any style with the best of them and here is why I'm back competing thanks to the top stick format....I can observe folks attacking the water(fish) from anothers viewpoint ( regardless of outcome ) and at the end of my day I can ask my pro what he felt was our ultimate mistake or witness for myself the winning stratagy that "we " put together. I had more fish in the livewell than my pro on the last tournament but I felt he had given it an honest effort and stuck ( to some degree ) to the gameplan prior to raceday.

I feel that the money that I spent prefishing was my own to go fishing on those days and was not spent unwisely because my team didn't finish as well as we had anticipated. It was just my way of not embarrassing myself when I fished with my pro. The making of money is never an issue if you fish as an am it is only the gravey. If you had a bad experience it goes in the lesson's learned box. If you have a great day....it goes in the same box. To what degree I as an am can affect the outcome of the teams effort is more pronounced in the shared weight format and for this reason I have chosen to fish circuits with this format. It's not for everyone and that is why other venues and circuits appeal to others.

We all know that Thirston Howell the third can most likely afford the luxuries that some of us cannot even imagine. When you draw an unseasoned pro in this format YOU CAN make a difference in the ultimate outcome. If we draw the schiznic #1 guy on the circuit try not to make any mistakes and watch what he's doing that makes a difference. It can be all good if you use your imagination. See ya on the water!!!!

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Re: When you look at the results of a BASS elite 50

Post by sickofdinks »

This is true Jim. Im not talking about the pros that are constantly on fish, winning tournaments, or bringing home checks. Im talking about the pro that after going to one spot and comes up empty turns to his am and asks if he has any water at that lake.

Ive come to the conclusion that the word Pro does not actually mean Pro it just means he owns a boat. This is one of the sports where pro does not mean pro.

If I built a race car to run in NASCAR would this make me a professional NASCAR driver? For that matter would NASCAR allow me out on the track just because I had a car? If I built a 6 second super stock NHRA car would they allow me to race? No! I have to be licensed and that does not mean just buying a license. You have to test to show you can be safe and know what your doing. I know. Been there done that! http://www.billbeau.net/photos/camaro/
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Is this the same? I think so. Except in bass fishing the pro doesnt have to show that he is in fact a pro he just has to have a boat and money to enter.

I got lucky at the last pro am I was in and got t wo good pros. I didnt get a check but was happy that I got to fish with a couple of pros that i knew I had a chance. I got lucky with the chance of the draw. I may not be as lucky next time. I will say that this will be my last year doing pro ams only because I promised a pro I would sign up with him for the next to AC events. I will be doing team events where I know who I am fishing with.
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Re: When you look at the results of a BASS elite 50

Post by Joe W. »

Nice car, I love me some second gens.
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Sick of Dinks....

Post by JamesH »

My name is James Huffmon.
This is my first year fishing "Pro".
I guess you would not be happy if you drew me.
The WON at Shasta was my 2nd tournament as a Pro. I ended up in 48th place.
I'm sure you would assume it was because of my lack of experience as a "Pro". Would that also be your reasoning for the following anglers?
Dave Nollar- 51st
Jimmy Reese- 58th
Fred Roumbanis- 60th
Bill Townsend- 62nd
Dwayne Bonham- 65th
Don Payne- 69th
Howard Hughes- 72nd
Ron Cervenka 78th
Richard Dobyns- 78th
If you had been paired with Bret Gouvea would you have known that it was a great draw?
You are not always going to draw one of the well known anglers, that doesn't make it a bad draw.
I learned more in 3 yrs fishing as an Am than I could have ever learned fishing on my own. If your sitting on the side lines thinking about fishing as an Am, to me it is a no brainer. Go fish....

James Huffmon
Phil
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Re: Sick of Dinks....

Post by Phil »

WELL JAMES. I ON THE OTHER HAND HAVE LEARNED MORE, FISHING AS A PRO, FROM AN AM/NON-BOATER THAN I WOULD HAVE EVER LEARNED BACK SEATING ALL THOSE YEARS I THINK.........MAN THOSE NON-BOATERS KNOW ALOT OF STUFF THAT WE ALL CAN LEARN FOR SURE...............I LEARNED TO USE DROP SHOT, DARTHEAD & SWIMBAITS ALL FROM NON-BOATERS. MOST THEY LEARN FROM ME IS SAFETY, FREINDLYNESS, POLITENESS, A WILL TO HAVE A GOOD TIME AND THANK GOD THAT WE ARE HERE TO DO THIS ..AND GET THEM BACK SAFELY TO THE WEIGH-IN !!

THANK YOU
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Hollywood »

Just do it??
Shut up and fish???
Never Give up????

Just some thoughts that come to mind!
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Re: Sick of Dinks....

Post by sickofdinks »

I fished with Howard and was happy that I was fishing with a person that knew what he was doing. i also fished with Phil and ended up 42nd. Am I upset that I didnt get to fish with the top dog. Nope not at all. It was the luck of the draw. I had a good time and learned something from both of them.

Your not getting what im trying to say.

All of us have good days and bad days on the water. Jim brought up the luck of the draw. The gamble. The fact that he gets PE Oed at the Pro/AM events, and it is luck of the Draw. I just can not stand the so called Pro that forgot to prefish or just did not have the time, and then can not find fish to save his soul.......... As he put it.

All im saying is that maybe someone that is signing up as a pro for a pro am should check himself to make sure that he can do the job and make for a good experiance for an am.

We are talking about the other pros that sign up and dont have a clue of what to do. Im not talking about the pros that are pros.

99.9% of the time you are going to draw a good partner. The pro am is a great place to learn the sport and how to compete in a tournament with all the ends and outs of competition. Anyone that wants to sign up go for it. But just remember its THE LUCK OF THE DRAW.
Last edited by sickofdinks on Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Mark Lassagne »

It's funny how anglers perceive your expertise on how many fish you catch. If you whack um, your a good draw and if you blank your a bad draw. I remember the BASS event at Clear Lake a few years back and I was catching them really good on a rip bait but you had to rip really hard. My draw that day thought I was the best pro, the next day the bite changed some and I only caught 10-11 lbs that guy thought I was so so. I’ve seen this happen many times. I think being a pro has to do with a multitude of things. How well did the angler prepare for the event, how are his abilities, what condition was his equipment, how was the boat, how were you treated etc. You shouldn’t judge whether or not the guy is good based only on the day’s performance, many poor anglers have won event and many excellent angler has came in last.

I wish they had a qualification system to become a pro angler. I may have to revert back to an AM.
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sickofdinks
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by sickofdinks »

Exactly Mark. Well said!
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Jim Conlow Sr.
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I really wopuld encourage anyone to fish the Pro/Ams

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

they qre 99% good fun learning experiences
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by mac (Doyle McEwen) »

I have never understood the debate about good draws or bad draws, the worst I ever had was fantastic and the rest went up from there..Did I catch fih everytime, absolutely not, did I get a check every time, no way..Still the experience and joy of just getting out there and competing makes every time worthwhile..

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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Hollywood »

bad day fishing, better than a good day at work??

Wouldnt sound like it to be true around this joint!
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Jim Conlow Sr.
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The exact and total truth James*NM*

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

*NM*
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Jim Conlow Sr.
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If Im the Jim you are quoting you better go back and reread

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

I certainly did not say those things. I have always taken the exact opposite position to those comments
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Jim Conlow Sr.
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Yes I totally agree that a Bass pro is whoever has the boat

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

and the Entry fee. But with out him and his boat the non boater will not get a day on the water. I would rather have a bad draw once in a while than to not be able to get the good draws that I know will come
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Re: Yes I totally agree that a Bass pro is whoever has the b

Post by Fishin' Dave »

No! That statement is stupid.

Hollywood "bad day fishing, better than a good day at work?? "

I blew my powerhead after losing a good fish and had to wait to get towed in. New powerhead cost big $$.

On the other hand, a good day at work would have netted a good sum of $$

So, please throw that saying in the trash :x
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Re: Me too Ricky

Post by Dewayne »

My two best tournaments last year were WONs where I did not pre-fish. They were the only two I did not pre-fish and cashed checks in both, I was a good draw in both. I have had days where I was a great draw and I have had days where I was a terrible draw. It's not always how much experience you have or how much you pre-fish that determines your success. For me last year the less I pre-fished the more open minded I was and the better I followed my instincts. Reese did not pre-fish a lot last year and had a fantastic year by relying on his experience. Sometimes you also have both experience and ample pre-fish and both are not enough.

If you want control over your destiny in tournament bass fishing you have to fish from the front end. Then at the end of the day when you used two days of you spots on day 1 and you came up way short you just belly up to the bar and say "I sucked today". No excuses and no blaming others for your failure on that day. You better be prepared to say that before you enter an event, because Jimmy Reese and Gary Dobyns end up saying that at times too. Rarely these days, but they have. Fishing is not for those who have delicate egos.

Sick of Dinks,
I'm not sure how much tournament experience you have under your belt. My guess would be not much, but I could be wrong. Don't take this as an attemped insult as that is not how it is meant, just an observation. While there may be a few true Pro anglers who fish AC or WONs these are also the lower cost weekend circuits where people fishing as boaters have to build their skills. Please note, I said boaters not Pros. Personally I am a boater, not a pro. I work a job for my living and I compete in some regional level bass tournaments and do have a few sponsors who help me compete. The term Pro is being thrown around these days by co-anglers who enter events with false expectation that they will draw Professional anglers. These are draw team events and not really pro events although we all often refer to them as pro/ams. If you enter these events thinking that these are Pro events where all people can spend a week or more pre-fishing you are mistaken. That is not to say there are not 100s of great anglers in each event. However, If you want to fish with true professional anglers then fish the Elite series and the FLW Tour events, not regional draw team events. Of course don't be too shocked when you draw Denny Brauer or Shaw Grisby and they too have a bad tournament.

From my perspective the answer is simple. If you are entering as a co-angler to compete in a shared weight you are probably going into the event with the wrong mindset. They are learning events and part of that learning is learning what not to do. When you draw one of us that is having a bad day, you will get that lesson. Now if you want to test your skills then step to the front. Of course not without being prepared, spend 10 minutes a day in front of the mirror practicing saying "I sucked today". I will guaranty that you will be a able to use that skill one day no matter how much you pre-fish. :)
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Re: Me too Ricky

Post by Ricky-S »

Yep Dewayne, I have said it once and I'll say it again:

The Pro Bass Association says that a pro is someone who earns 80 percent (or more) of their income from fishing related industry. That makes most, if not all of us, boaters-Meaning we own boats.

You want to draw a Pro Angler, fish the BASS Elite or FLW Tour. Problem is, you'll take a chance at having the same thing happen :wink:

Fishing is supposed to be FUN. That's why they call it fishing and not catching.

Lighten up!!!!!!
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Re: Yes I totally agree that a Bass pro is whoever has the b

Post by Hollywood »

guess it wasnt under warranty? should of bought the extended!! :lol: Then you can fish with peace of mind!
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Barry »

Just to add to the very good posts of Jim and Dewayne,
A word (okay alot of words) to prospective Ams/Coanglers: You gotta love it. You have to want to be on the water, fishing in the snow, clearing the ice off your rod guides after every cast, riding with a guy you don't really know in an 18ft boat with 8 ft waves all around you.
You gotta want it! Throwing $250 to $700, just in entry fees, down the toilet can't bother you. Return on investment in this sport sucks. UNLESS you love the fishing, the competition, the comraderie.
You want the surge of adrenalin you get when Gary Dobyns name is called at the raffle (Draw) and the let down when somebody elses name is called to fish with him. Repeat for any number of the great fisherman we call Pros out there.
You learn from the bad as well as the good. In 10 years fishing as an Am (Even did one year at the pointy end, I was a bad draw on game days but a great prefisherman), I have been very fortunate and have fished with a lot of the BIG names in the business but the 3 tournaments I've won were with guys most have never heard of. Who were the better draws?

My point is and it has been made here before there are "bad" coanglers too. Welcome to the real world, when you are dealing with people expect the unexpected. Make the best of a bad situation.

If you are going to fish a tournament, love the experiance. Everything else is gravy.

Jim, Dewayne,Good points AND I would rather be lucky than good!

Good luck to all,
Barry
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Marty »

Great post Dewayne you are a very level headed person and I like reading your posts. You always compose common sense into your writings. So you wont get a big head I also like reading Mark Lassagne, NaCl, TTCal, TomLeogrande, kb and the Cooch.
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by sickofdinks »

Im sorry jim your correct it wasnt you it was Tom.
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by MIKE TREMONT »

I wasn't going to say anything because I feel this issue has gotten way much space here (AGAIN)!
You nailed on the head Dewayne. You guys that are worried about this stuff have unreal excpectations. You can learn something from everyone.As a nonboater that should be your mindset-I am going to try and LEARN!
Even if you were going to fish the Elite series, aren't there guys that dominate?
I have never not learned anything-even if it was I can fish with these guys.
Go out and give it a try. You can have my spot as I'm not fishing any of the Pro/Ams this year :D .
I had to come back...I know...
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Fishin' Dave »

Wood,

If you can get me an extended warranty on a 7 year old motor, I'll buy!!
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Guest »

Hey SicofDinks - What did I say?
Jim and my ideas on this are pretty similar... so I am not sure what you are referring to what I said.. care to clarify?

Thanks-
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Guest »

Hey Marty -
Thanks - I thought all I did was piss people off on here! I try to be fair and lay things out as unbiased as possible (it doesn't always work)! :) It's all in good fun... I'd do anything to help a fellow bass angler and I know most everyone on here would do the same!!
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Marty
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by Marty »

Hay Mike,

Did you know that I learn something from you when I was your back seat and if my memory severs me right we did not catch a fish. We were just talking and you were telling me about fishing from deep to shallow. Moving the boat next to the bank and casting out to open water and bring the bait back up hill. I have been fishing a long time but never did that! By the way it works on the Delta also –Thanks.
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mac (Doyle McEwen)
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Re: Pro/Am tournament Bass Fishing

Post by mac (Doyle McEwen) »

I am almost positive every "pro" (bpater) out there has had their good days as well as having more than a few bad ones..I notice KVD does not win every tournament he enters, nor does Mike Ike or even Bill Dance..I will also be willing to bet that each has at least once skunked on a tournament day..Guess what guys, they put their pants on just like we do..They go out and fish, just like we do do..Perhaps they use a little or a lot more logic in the process, but all they do is toss the bait and reel it in, just like we do..I don't give a big pink rat's patootie about what you think you or any pro should do, the results are always what you did do..Any amature/AAA/co-angler that honestly believes he is better than the guy in the front of the boat should step up and be the guy in the front of the boat..There is not such a thing as a bad draw, there is such a thing as bad fishing..Not everyone fishes the best pattern at the right time in the right place..Even people with years and years of experience on a particular body of water will have bad days, it happens, just like shi....p..Hey if you are fishing you have nothing to complain about..If you spent money to fish, you may have more of a right to complain, but you still have nothing to complain about..

mac
Take a kid fishing, and don't forget about us older kids either..
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Jim Conlow Sr.
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A great Post Mr Bonham. To me you are a Pro.

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

I have always hoped to draw you, and now that I am back to fishing the back seat perhaps that will happen.

Jim
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MIKE TREMONT
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Re: A great Post Mr Bonham. To me you are a Pro.

Post by MIKE TREMONT »

I remeber Marty, we didn't get bit until we started working the baits uphill that day. The other thing that was reinforced to me that day is never give up. It doesn't take long to get them in the boat when they're biting.
Good luck on your upcoming event-I'll be pulling for you!
I had to come back...I know...
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