"declare" rule help at Snagproof

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:56 am

Hey all,

I do not like to rant and complain, but I feel like my partner and I got screwed by a technicality this weekend and I would like some input. We are just basic amature fisherman and we get off the leash a few times a year to fish a tourneyment. On sat I caught a 4.04 pound fish that we where quite please with. As the day turn out, it was also the only fish we brought to the scale. Unfortuntely, we where also in the first flight and we where accully the first fish brought to weigh ins. When we came in on Sunday morning and look at the board we noticed that while we had the 3rd biggest fish in the amature group but we where not recorded as 3rd biggest fish for big fish money ( another boat with i think it was a 3.3 fish). Since we had signed up and paid for all options and big fish we just figured it was a clerical error, but once we brought it to TD attention, it was stated that we did not officillly "declare" our 1 fish we weighed in as our official fish. TD went on to state that the rules state if you dont delcare your big fish it does not qualify, as sometimes (for a reason i do not understand) people do not want to "declare" their fish. Now I know that when you have a bag of fish, you are supposed to choose your fish you want as "big" to be weighed seperatly, but this is silly with only 1 fish on the scale. I know the easy answer is "the rules are the rules", but I am fishing as an amature and I would expect a little help then at the scales if this legal technicality is going to be enforced. At no time did anyone ask the question "do you want to declare your one fish" as it would be a stupid question and thus not asked.

Anyway, trying to unrant here. In spite of this, we had a great time in a fun tourny ( tuff frggin fishing), and I appriciate how tough and busy running a large tournyment can be so I know this is probubly just small potatoes to the upper end guys, but I feel we got robbed a little bit of glory (comes very seldom) and some cash.

Also, thank you for those of you who stopped and chimed and tried to help us during this situation on Sunday morning.

al

VJ · Post by VJ » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:25 am

I think ur fished should have counted for big fish, especially because u only had one fish. as someone weigh the fish and working the tourney they should have asked or figured it out for themselves. Just my opinion

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:34 am

Dude you got screwed. Your one fish is your big fish and nothing needs to be said. I would call Snag Proof and anglers press immediately and demand your cash if your fish would have gotten a check. There is no grey area when you are only weighing 1 fish.

gobigred53 · Post by **gobigred53** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:32 am

YOU GOT SCREWED BRO! YOU ONLY TURNED IN ONE FISH, NO REASON TO DECLARE WHICH FISH IS THE BIGGEST ONE. SHAME ON THE T.D.

GKramer · Post by **GKramer** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:26 pm

This is the classic case (and almost every local organization does it) of "assuming" everyone in an event knows all the critical rules and procedures. Whether its culling or not culling in the marina, not touching (only pointing to) your biggest fish, entering the scale area at a specific point (so no previously weighed fish ends up in a yet-to-be-weighed sack) or in this case, the issue of "declaring" a fish for scoring is critical within the given context. True, by rule, the organization can fall back and say the catch does not qualify. But it seems apparent, if the story has been accurately presented, the derby staff is guilty of not making this point clear to some customers unfamiliar with the procedure. That needs a fix in the future.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:34 pm

I beg to differ here, The plain and simple fact is the rules are the rules you as well as I should have read them You are requiered to call and DECLARE big fish ( We declaered ours on Sunday) and you did not simple logic is this if people dont pay for the big fish option then why would it matter? the TD does not have a computer in his head to remember who got in the big fish option and who did not thats your responsibility. And I am only stating the facts here I also hit a hurdle this week end

My son and I hit our spot and BOOM we started getting bites i nail a 4 in the boat my son gets hammered by a 5 or better and it comes off at the boat ! the story plays out like this for about 20 min. Anyway the tide dropped an our fish went deep I managed another 2 lbder and a DINK this fish went 12 " by laying it next to my size 12" sandle (no measureing board in the boat, I know, but hey I aint fished a tournament since 2006 yea I slipped) Anyway I tell my son its 12" put it in the livewell at least we got a limit and we will work our butts off to get that fish culled. Anyway we hit it hard and only came up with 10" fish after that. So we goto the scales and they dump our fish and right away grab the 12 I say ITS 12" were good he looks at me and says Dom its a 13" min. DANG!!!!! Thats what I get for asumming it was a 12" min, we got a 1 lb penalty! No biggie my mistake and I can man up to it. You should do the same

skkbomb · Post by **skkbomb** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:45 pm

Al,

We had a 4lb 12oz big fish on day one that i weighted on a very acurate Pelouse scale. We also got bit by the "Declare" rule. When my partner got back in the boat he said, " they didnt even weight our big fish", which was obvious. I'm not trying to one up you, i'm glad you brought this up. It seems that we got we got bit by not declaring also. Lesson learned, it wont happen again!

Scott

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:11 pm

Dom,

While I expected the close minded its a rule and you should know it, please don't think your inability to know a legal sized fish (even thou they usually tell you 3 or 4 times a tourny) is the same as this technicallity. I dont expect to get tickets in a 55 mph when I am driving 56 even thou I am technically breaking the law. There has to be some sense and reasoning in these things also. I dont need any man up lessons, just not happy getting lucky in a tourny (it dont happen often) and not getting anything for it.

al

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:26 pm

OK Closed minded what part of it did you miss?

Not everyone gets in the big fish options
Therefore it is not up to the TD to remember who did or did not get in (THE BIGGIE HERE)
if you paid, it is your responsibility to declare your big fish that you put money on to catch, RIGHT!

Pretty simple to me

So once again this is no way a technicality this is you Betting you would have the big fish but yet you did not say you had the big fish I mean come on if your in a poker game and folded on a straight flush are you still gonna exspect the pot? Seems to me you are asking for more then is owed. Not trying to come down on you but when its as simple as it is kinda makes you look like your begging for the TD to remember you got in the big fish option. Im just sayin.....

Take it as a learning lesson and move on ! Regurdless what you think of the short fish even if they yelled it from the mountian tops i did not hear it MY BAD MY MISTAKE MOVE ON Both rules were broke you did not declare and I missed it by an 1" so you can keep your sarcasim and MAN UP!!!

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:36 pm

Ok,

Honest question as it had not occured to me. When you sign up for big fish pot can does it count for both days? Is this the point you are making? If i declare my "big fish" on sat am I out on Sunday? If so... then I get it, otherwise i still dont get your poker analogy. I am in the pot once they take my big fish mony and for the record... it is the TD job to keep track of who pays and who doesnt pay. I think that why they call him the TD.

Seriously, if I am mistaken on the big fish bet on a 2 day tourny let me know. Can you win big fish money on both days?

al

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:40 pm

As A person that works at the scales from time to time we are "NOT "to tell the anglers anything. Can you imagin repeating do you want to weigh bigfish and do you have ALL 5 fish in your bags to 175 people who SHOULD KNOW THE RULES!!!!!Could you imagin if I told you but not the next guy. "WOW you guys are playing favorites "you told him but not me. It's A tuff way to learn but I bet it won't happen again. TD'S will never make everyone happy PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Good luck at your next event, Terry

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:05 pm

If you hit a 6 on saturday and declared it then come Sunday you hit a 9 AND DECLARE IT then the 6 goes away and your 9 stands for both days

If you hit a 6 on sat and declare it then hit a 9 on sunday but you do not declare it then you 6 still stands and if a guy has a 6.01 he beats your 6 even though you had a 9 on sunday you did not declare you had the 9.

The poker thing is the same as above if you have a straight flush but dont ell anyone you have the Straight flush and you fold it to only say hey I had a straight flush I win the pot not one plyer is gonna go for it if you had the straght flush then you should have said you had it and decleared it same with the fish you have to declare it thats what the option bet is for when you pay that option you are saying HEY I CAN CATCH THE BIGGEST BASS OF THE TOURNAMENT. Its your responsibility to declare you hae a bass that will compete.

kraetzer · Post by **kraetzer** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:07 pm

I understand both sides of the argument but I think you should also keep in mind that you have two different division/leagues fishing here - Pro's/AM. For the Pro side I can expect them to follow every rule since it's their job (they declare that by entering the Pro side - IMHO). On the AM side I think the TD has to take more responsibility since he is the Pro. You have to plug the results into a spreadsheet anyway -> so just sort it at the end for the AMs by declared big fish and one fish waight in for everybody that has the big fish option and you are good to go.
I don't think anybody got screwed because as people already said "the rule is the rule" but I think we found a chance to make improvements to our sport.
Tight lines,

WON BASSIN · Post by **WON BASSIN** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm

A rule is a rule is a rule!!!!!

During any tournament weigh-in, regardless of how many days it may run, you must declare your fish as you see fit, based on your entry and options. While running a weigh-in there are more factors at hand than you may be aware of, such as the number of fish caught, species of fish caught, dead fish, short fish and bump tank temperatures, not to mention the line that may be building up during the weigh-in procedure. At our weigh-ins while approaching the stage, we ask if you have a big fish to declare. If it's during a Pro/Am we ask if you have a Pro Big, and or a Co Big to weigh-In, even though we may have no idea at the time who may be in the options or not. Even with that extra step there are still mistakes, as it is up to the angler to provide that information at weigh-in time, as you are the one bringing the fish to the scale. Many times in the "HEAT" of the moment, guys will forget to weigh a Co big fish. There where a few times it happened at the Open, and it cost those Co's a $1000 Big Fish check. These issues at the Open, where directly associated with the fact that we had a drive by weigh-in, and that someone needed to be in the truck to pull the boat out of the way for more boats. As a result of these issues happening at the Open this year, we will plan accordingly for next years event, to have volunteer crews moving the boats, so that both anglers can get their time on the stage at each days weigh-in. Either the Pro or Co, or either team partner that approaches the scale is fully responsible for their teams declaration of their fish, regardless if they are asked to do so at the scales or not.

Sorry, but that's as cut and dry as it gets. Not to say we don't feel for you at the time.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:25 pm

I can understand what your saying but I honestly dont think its fair to bend the rules in a bass tournament not for one person. This is not like getting a ticket for 56 in a 55, thats like the public paying more money to the state that we already pay taxes to. In a bass tournament this is alot of hard working guys putting up money betting on a contest and I think its the resposibility of the contestants to know the rules to the letter not fair to bend the rules for one and not all either follow the rule or plain and simple drop the rule but dont bend it. just not fair to the other hard working guys weather they are PROS or AMS

and the same goes for me I can look like an *** and argue all day i did not know it was a 13"min the rules upto 2006 was a 12" min on the delta unless we were fishing a lake with a slot limit. But you know what? Everyone else knew the limit so to bend the rules for me would not be fair and I would not exspect it. Nor would I ask. Vince and I have been friends for years but when I was told it was a 13" min and I had a 12" I seen the look in Vince eyes and knew he had no other choice but to call it and give me a penelty and thats exactly how it should have went.

thukidad · Post by **thukidad** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:37 pm

just curious??? did you read the rules prior to entering the tournament?

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:48 pm

who me? LOL read rules ? yea the important stuff LMAO Yea I went to the snag proof web site and downloaded the PDF file even printed it out, I must have scaned through the rules that I already knew and missed that one. Did I grab a rule sheet sitting on the table in a folder marked rules at sugar barge ? Nope, thought I had it under control LOL I promise that wont happen again

I will read em word for word from now on LMAO

and keep a copy in the boat glove box LOL

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:56 pm

For all the rule guys who keep quoting this rule. Where is the dang thing. Yes, I read the rules prior to, during and after and I still cant find the dang thing even thou I have certainly had enough people pull it out of the holster and fire them at me. Can anyone tell me what number it is in the snag proof open rules. I am sure its there, but I cant find the dang thing.

So are we saying that you cant win a big fish payout on both days? I am just trying to figure this out so if the fishing gods strike me with another miracle fish next year, we dont screw it up.

al

ASD · Post by **ASD** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:02 pm

The Snag Proof is a 2 day event they pay out "only" on Sunday for the best of both days combined weights and the bigest "big fish's" of the 2 day event

kraetzer · Post by **kraetzer** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:10 pm

How about general and customized rules. Bare with me here

What I'm meaning by that is a set amount of rules that can not be changed in any tournament (only fishing artificial lures, no trolling, declare your big fish

...) and a set off customized rules (short list like keeper size, limit of fish, only frogs allowed, ...) that can change from tournament to tournament. This way you can work your way through the "book" of general rules once and than the tournament can hand out a flyer with the customized rules when you check in.
Just an idea,

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:15 pm

This is a great lesson we all need to learn! When in a tournament, have them weigh yer biggest fish every time ya come to the scales! It's just like getting in the options, a lesson pounded into me by Dee Thomas! Thanks fer the check boy! I had ta learn the hard way.

I believe Dave Newton & Marc Young may have also got bit by this or maybe they weren't in the options. To the best of my recollection though, they weighed an 8.28 on the first day, along with their two other bass, and got nothing for it. I sat quietly amazed when the big fish honors were being handed out and it went from 8.56 to 7 something for second. Unfortunately, if it is written in the rules, "You must declare your big fish", then it is what it is, and we have no one else but ourselves to blame fer not doing so. For the sake of arguement, I hope it was the latter.

Many tournaments have this rule, or they have a rule that utilizes various event's big fish as a tie breaker of some sorts. In these events, the final outcome was determined and different than what was printed due to anglers not "declaring" their fish to fully satisfy these rules to their fullest extent. Most anglers, fail to read the rules of every tournament(myself included), or take it for granted they know them, when in fact there are a few critical rules that get overlooked. We have been taught all our lives to read the fine print, sign or check the box that you have read the agreement policy. Yet time and again, we do not. It's a tough pill ta swallow, if it IS the rule.

On the flip side, I can sympathize with the anglers, especially when ya have a specialty event with so many amatures, many whom have never fished a tournament before, who are at the event simply to have some fun and go fishing, only ta show and have a situation like this arise and ruin their day. In this event, it would not seem prudent to me, to have a "declare" rule in place. You'd think in an event such as this, you'd want to exploit all the big fish caught with your baits in a specialty event, it's good fer business. So anglers come with the impression that this is a big time tournament and they are going to be taken care of and catered too by the staff. Certainly that, would be a tough pill to swallow as well.

I'm sorry this happened to you and thankful to you as well for sharing your story with us. It's good to hear other than that ya had a great time, as many of us do and always have at the Snag Proof Open, it's such a great event. It's also a great testament that ALL organizations can look to and follow, as Kramer mentions, in applying at future events. There are certain rules that should be highlighted and an extra effort to remind us all, should be taken at every event, especially those with a "declare" rule and a large number of amatures invovled. Many tournament orgs have gotten away from the pre-tournament rules meetings that used to be common before every event in the olden days.

birdi23nls · Post by **birdi23nls** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:26 pm

Sorry man...that seriously sucks. I don't care what the sometimes TD tell you or what others say. You got screwed with a capital S. If it is not up to the TD to record your big fish, then who is it up to? I have only fished a few tourney's and have no idea what all the rules are...but in no way do I think it is a big deal or going out of there way to record your big fish, especially do to the fact that you only weighed one fish. This kind of "rules are rules" bull really irritates me. It should be about the spirit of the competition, and those that win, should get paid, regardless of "officially declaring" . You paid your entry fee, and if the TD needs to ask you a question like, "is that your big fish"...I'm pretty sure he can handle that.

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:43 pm

birdi23nls wrote: This kind of "rules are rules" bull really irritates me. .

Ya what do we need rules for anyways

It's just A fun tournament!!!

birdi23nls · Post by **birdi23nls** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:53 pm

Terry Smith wrote:
birdi23nls wrote: This kind of "rules are rules" bull really irritates me. .
Ya what do we need rules for anyways It's just A fun tournament!!!

Tourneys should be fun, but when you place, you should get paid...I think everyone gets that simple concept. If you take 3rd place, you should get paid the 3rd place money. Obvious is obvious and if you bring one fish to the scales, it is obvious it is your big fish. If the TD can't figure that out, he should not be the TD or much else.

senkoboy · Post by **senkoboy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:00 pm

I hate to keep beating on this, but for my own growth of understanding the rule can some find the dang thing for me. I have gone thru the snag proof open rule several times (yes, even before the tourny) and this rule must be in my blind spot as I cant find it. Maybe many of the quoters of this rule know where it is and can copy and past it in a reply or let me know the number as I must be too stupid to find the dang thing myself.

thx,

al

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:00 pm

Terry Smith wrote:
birdi23nls wrote: This kind of "rules are rules" bull really irritates me. .
Ya what do we need rules for anyways It's just A fun tournament!!!

What rules?

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:07 pm

senkoboy I will say it again you got screwed!!!

I have never seen a rule that states you must declare your big fish nor is it included in the Snag Proof rules. If you enter the big fish option it is the TD's responsiblility to ask and make note of your biggest fish. You only had 1 fish for Christ sake, there should be no discussion. YOU WERE SCREWED and I will say it again, call Connie and Anglers press and plead your case and they should make it right. Remind them that they made enough money on the tourny. (80% payback what a joke even after you are forced to buy thier swag) that they should be stand up people to fix THIER mistake.

WackySenko · Post by **WackySenko** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:18 pm

senkoboy, you should give Vince a call at 916-768-0938. He will be more than happy to answer your questions about the rules.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:20 pm

Well after rereading the rules I dont see it any where either , I know it is required in all the other tournaments I have fished so tech. you are right and I apoligize. I am not flip flopping here I stand firm on the rules, but in this case I dont see it in the rules maybe I am missing it. And if infact it is not a rule then I would call them on it. I have a feeling that since its the NORM the statement about the TD final decission is law(not word for word) might come into play here but who knows. Id like to know for myself. and if infact it is not a rule then the 8 and some change bass caught should be paid as well just keeping it fair

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:28 pm

I hate to say it, but common sense says if a team only weighs in one fish, that is their big fish..I can understand if a team were to weigh in more than one fish, especially if they were close in size having to declare this fish (their choice, right or wrong) as their big fish..It should not take a rocket scientist to discern which fish is the big fish when only one is weighed in..

And Dom, if you fold your hand in a poker game, it doesn't matter what you had, you folded..If you called the bet and then flipped your cards up, they speak for themselves..You may have thought you had a flush and the other guys full house was the winner..But if you did in fact have a straight flush, you would be the winner..Just as in this case, the single fish should speak for itself..Somebody was getting really nitpicky with the rules, when common sense should have prevailed..Unfortunately common sense seems to be a rarity these days..

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:35 pm

Your right Mac and that was my point if you fold it dont matter same with the declare rule if you did not declare it then it dont matter flipping a full house I should have said Royal flush lol, I win either way

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:40 pm

I’m sorry but there is no rule in the OFFICIAL RULES for the 2011 Snag Proof Open saying you have to Declare your Big Fish!!!

A lot of good fisherman automatic agree that it is in the rules – sorry it is not! I read and carry a copy of the rules with me at every tournament I fish! Why because most of the fisherman and the TD use customs or rules from other tournaments.

I read the rules before the tournament and just again read the rules that were posted for this event and I did not come any rule stating you have to “declare” your big fish. I wonder what the TD was referring to “the rules state if you don’t declare your big fish it does not qualify”? That would have been my first question to him!

The only other rules that the TD could be referring to are:

28. Penalties: All fished weighed in must be alive to be eligible for any of the Snag Proof BIG BASS cash or prizes. Any fish that appears to have been altered, mutilated or snagged will also be disqualified. All decisions regarding fish that are determined to be dead, snagged, altered, or mutilated by the Snag Proof Open officials are final and cannot be disputed. Any team disqualified from the Snag Proof Open will forfeit all entry fees submitted.

I take it your fish was alive and not mutilated? Also it was not stated you have to “Declare”! The other rule that could have been used is:

46. Special Rules: The tournament director may add specifics rules when necessary. These special rules will be in effect for the length of the tournament and should not be considered regular rules, but will be announced and enforced as such. Interpretation of all rules will be left exclusively to the tournament director, whose decision will be final in all matters.

This one should not apply either because I did not hear of the announcement of “Declaring your Big fish”. Did anyone else?

Sorry Al, but you got hosed – challenge when you don’t agree and have them show you that your wrong – most times it just shows them wrong!

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:58 pm

Dom, you analogy with the big fish (sole fish) would be good had he tossed the fish and not weighed it in..When you only weigh in one fish, it is your big fish period..Any tournamnet official that cannot grasp that concept, should not be a tournament official..

mac

Duckman · Post by **Duckman** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:09 pm

I fished the ranger owners tourny a couple weeks age and weighed in a limit and the guy pulled my biggest fish out of the tub a 7.92# and announched here is your new big fish leader, I was beaten out by a 10# er and came in 2nd fig fish but I never declared anything. You got hosed!!! Darrel Watts

hasetak · Post by **hasetak** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:30 pm

senkoboy wrote:I hate to keep beating on this, but for my own growth of understanding the rule can some find the dang thing for me. I have gone thru the snag proof open rule several times (yes, even before the tourny) and this rule must be in my blind spot as I cant find it. Maybe many of the quoters of this rule know where it is and can copy and past it in a reply or let me know the number as I must be too stupid to find the dang thing myself.

thx,

al

I dont want to stir the pot but I won BIG fish on the AM side with a 5.89 on day 2. It was the only fish we weighed on day 2 and I DID NOT declare it. I walked up and someone at the scales said "Bobby do you want to weigh Big Fish". This was my first tournament and I was unaware of the declaration thing. But on the other side of that we weighed 2 fish on day 1 and one of them was about 3.5 lbs that fish was not weighed for big fish I can only assume because of the declaration thing. My partner and I simply had no clue that this would be necessary. If you are goign to have and AM division which is to draw people like myself and the OP who do not fish tournaments every weekend then you would be more clear about thigs like this or have a meating that the AM anglers are required to attend. To discuss this stuff.

I read the rules before the event and again before making this post and i cant find the declaration rule either... if they are going to use rule #46 then they should have announced it prior to blast off on day one and agian as people were comming to weigh their fish.

Bottom line i think you got hosed out of the credit you deserved on the board after day 1.

To make this big fish debate even better when they were giving out awards and they announced the the team one place higher than us got big fish, and interviewed them for it. We did not hear the weight for the big fish we just assumed that our 5.89 was not in the big fish money, then we hear second big fish was 4.? and asked the lady writing the checks and it turns out they wrote my fish on the other teams line for pay out. So the other team got interviewed and thier pic taken with my plaque for my fish.

hasetak

birdi23nls · Post by **birdi23nls** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:56 pm

hasetak wrote:
senkoboy wrote:I hate to keep beating on this, but for my own growth of understanding the rule can some find the dang thing for me. I have gone thru the snag proof open rule several times (yes, even before the tourny) and this rule must be in my blind spot as I cant find it. Maybe many of the quoters of this rule know where it is and can copy and past it in a reply or let me know the number as I must be too stupid to find the dang thing myself.

thx,

al

I dont want to stir the pot but I won BIG fish on the AM side with a 5.89 on day 2. It was the only fish we weighed on day 2 and I DID NOT declare it. I walked up and someone at the scales said "Bobby do you want to weigh Big Fish". This was my first tournament and I was unaware of the declaration thing. But on the other side of that we weighed 2 fish on day 1 and one of them was about 3.5 lbs that fish was not weighed for big fish I can only assume because of the declaration thing. My partner and I simply had no clue that this would be necessary. If you are goign to have and AM division which is to draw people like myself and the OP who do not fish tournaments every weekend then you would be more clear about thigs like this or have a meating that the AM anglers are required to attend. To discuss this stuff.

I read the rules before the event and again before making this post and i cant find the declaration rule either... if they are going to use rule #46 then they should have announced it prior to blast off on day one and agian as people were comming to weigh their fish.

Bottom line i think you got hosed out of the credit you deserved on the board after day 1.

To make this big fish debate even better when they were giving out awards and they announced the the team one place higher than us got big fish, and interviewed them for it. We did not hear the weight for the big fish we just assumed that our 5.89 was not in the big fish money, then we hear second big fish was 4.? and asked the lady writing the checks and it turns out they wrote my fish on the other teams line for pay out. So the other team got interviewed and thier pic taken with my plaque for my fish.

hasetak

When the guy who won big fish tells you, you were hosed, you know they put it to you. Do you know that song with the lyrics, " She got the gold mine, and I got the shaft?"

If I were you I would make a big deal about it.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:46 pm

So, let me understand this "A rule is a rule" thinking. If one team has 5 2lb fish and selects one to be weighed for big fish, and the other team only has one fish that weighs 11lbs and they don't "declare" it as big fish to the weigh master, the 2lb fish gets the money? You have to be kidding! The only reason you ask for a big fish to be weighed is so you can select which fish is to be weighed as the big fish. If there's only one fish in the bag, why would you need to tell them it's your big fish? As far as the TD knowing who's in the options, that's all taken care of after the fish are weighed, not during the weigh in so that argument is moot. There's no doubt what their big fish weighed, or that they got hosed!

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:18 pm

I completely agree Bryan..Even if a team showed up with four two pounders and one eight pounder, it is just a little more than obvious which is the big fish..Now they may decide to not weigh it in for the big fish, that is their choice..If thre is only one fish being weighed in it should be more than obvious it is their big fish..Why should they have to declare it..Are the tournament officials blind, I would ask if they have any common sense, but that seems obvious also..

mac

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:25 pm

hasetak wrote:I dont want to stir the pot but I won BIG fish on the AM side with a 5.89 on day 2. It was the only fish we weighed on day 2 and I DID NOT declare it.

Let's see how the TD wiggles outta this one. And is it unanimous that the requirement to declare big fish is not actually found in the rules?

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:00 pm

Wel lhe rules are the rules and I have to say I cant find it either , really sad that this went down like this might just run the snag proof outta Ca forever. I have fished alot of tourneys over the years from westcoast bass, westernbass,100%, FPT, and alot of opens and I was taught the hard way you had to declare your big fish. i feel for you guys that got the mix up and thats what it sounds like, I seriously doubt anyone did any of this on purpose. And I would not call out the dogs just yet . Bring it to the TD attention and give em a chance to make it right who knows maybe a free entry to next years event or cash, again I am not affliated with the SPT just a contestant so I have no idea how they will resolve it.

Otay Michael · Post by **Otay Michael** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:33 pm

Yeah, when I first read the post this morning I didn't remember reading anything about 'declaring'. As my first major tournament, I had read the rules so I wouldn't be disqualified for something. I too would have been bummed, ESPECIALLY as you only weighed one fish, as common sense dictates it is also your big fish, your small fish, and and if it had been mine, my happy fish!

How hard is it to have a column for this, I imagine it's already there on their paper, they could figure out 'who is in' later (I was not, glad about that too). Had there been an option for the one that only would get one fish for 14 hours of frog fishing I would not have gotten in that either, figure the odds, but I would have won.

(Not today though, after reading Cooch's thought processes on that other thread -I got some frog fish, one a nice lunker of five pounds, a few hours ago. Feel like I'm a frog fisherman again- thanks Cooch).

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:51 pm

Terry Smith wrote:Can you imagin repeating do you want to weigh bigfish

I have been running the tub for ABA Delta for going on 5 years and did it at Folsom for 2 years and I always ask every angler. Not a big deal. Just want to help them out in case they forget. It's the decent thing to do.

DanO · Post by **DanO** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:02 am

So, everyone that has a one fish bag should automatically have it marked as a "Big Fish?"

Many tournament rules require anglers to declare that they want a fish weighed as a big fish. Many tournaments also use the biggest bass as the first tie breaker, so asking to have one weighed is a good thing; even if it is only two pounds.

We can sit here and talk "common sense" all day long, but that is why we have rules in tournament angling. Your common sense may not be my common sense, and the next guy's common sense may be something entirely different. With so many people thinking so many different ways and having different sets of values, rules are an absolute must.

Whatever the rules for the Snag Proof Open state, it is the responsibility of the angler to make sure that their catch is recorded properly. If I don't agree with my weight, I can request one re-weigh, but that weight is final. If I notice that they are not weighing my big fish, then I need to stop them and make sure they weigh it as a big fish.

I understand it's not fun to find out a smaller fish than yours got a prize, but we are responsible as anglers to make sure our weights are properly recorded, and if it required "declaring" that you want a fish weighed as your big bass, then we must do so.

On the flip side, it sounds like you had a good time, and you can take away that and a little learning experience as well in a tournament that only cost you a little money. Imagine if it was at an event where you'd been fishing all year to make the TOC and it cost you a point in the standings. Then, find out at the end of the year you missed the TOC by a point. I've seen it happen, and it sucks.

I learned the hard way many years ago to double check everything and to realize what everything could cost you. It's not a fun lesson, but it's better to have it happen here than at your regular circuit.

Dan O'Sullivan

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:32 am

As an after thought and reading through all the posts, it reminded me of something I was taught at my first job back in the 80s working for Osborne Computers. Every employee was given a book ta read at their hiring, it was called "Quality First." In this book, it pounded into our heads, chapter after chapter, that in resolving problems, we should always find and then resolve the "root cause" of the problem. Do it right the first time!

There is only one way to fix this at the root cause of the problem. All tournament orgs, at all levels, should make it mandatory that every angler or team, be required to weigh one of thier fish as a "Big Fish". You impliment a simple process into your weigh-ins, that prevents anything like this from ever happening again. Is it too tough ta require one of three people, the tub guy, the mic guy or your stats person to remember and ask for this? Absolutely not. Is it time consuming? Maybe so in a very large field event, but not much with an efficient crew that gets used to the process. Is it worth the pounding wer're gonna take when a situation like this rears it's ugly head, and we could have prevented it? The answer to that question is a no brainer, fix the root cause. There is NO need for a rule, just impliment the process.

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:24 am

Why wouldnt the TD have every team weigh a big fish when its only 3 fish a day? Wouldnt it be obvious that if you are the first in to weigh your fish is automatically big fish for that moment? This is like the whole "read the fine print" and there was no fine print! I would have to chock this one to the persons in charge of running the event for snag proof. clown shoes

birdi23nls · Post by **birdi23nls** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:42 am

Brian wrote:
Terry Smith wrote:Can you imagin repeating do you want to weigh bigfish
I have been running the tub for ABA Delta for going on 5 years and did it at Folsom for 2 years and I always ask every angler. Not a big deal. Just want to help them out in case they forget. It's the decent thing to do.

there you go...honestly how big of a deal is it to ask, "Is that your big fish?"

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:23 am

So... what do you suppose the TD would say after you weigh your one fish in and then tell him you want to weigh a big fish? This discussion borders on the absurd.

gwilson · Post by **gwilson** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:00 am

Sad state of affairs, guy got screwd for sure! Please! Only one fish to the scale in a big fish Tourney......WTF...why did the people at the scale think he was weighing in that one fish anyway? Declaration rule my ***. I have weighed in alot of fish at the scale, if a team comes in with one 8 lber I dont need them to tell me that it is the fish they want to wieghin for there big fish cause I don't want to look, like a dumbass. This kind a stuff runs good people away from fishing tourneys. Hate to hear that this happend to ya!

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:12 am

i fished that tourny last year and it had to be the most chaotic event ive ever been in. We signed up and asked how the launch was going to work. They looked at us and said weve done this for 20 years, dont ask us how this is going to work.... I knew that but but needed lauch times and whatever else as far as 3 fish limit and what not. They just laughed and said we got it dont worry about it. lol I never got any answers. Good luck with your situation. Those people dont have a clue. You got hosed! They still get 177 boats even though they cant get it right after all this time. As the great Baron once said.....Amazing, simply amazing.

jloo283 · Post by **jloo283** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:07 am

To the OP, sorry you got screwed. Regardless of weighing-in one or more fish, the biggest of your sack should be the big fish, period. This brings up Cooch's idea of having a process in place to weigh-in a big fish for every sack, which I actually like. I can think of 3 potential issues TDs may have:

1) You have multiple fish similar in size. The anglers will be made known to "DECLARE" which big fish to weigh. This situation would have been prevented. Win-win.
2) If you didn't pay for the big fish option. The anglers just won't be paid, simple.
3) Takes a bit more time. So what! That's part of the fun.

I hope the TDs can make it right for you and improvements can be made from this.

Of course I'm sure you also learned a valuable lesson. We live and we learn, and move on.

Thanks for sharing your story.

James

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