Cheating????

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:13 am

On the Future Pro website, It says that a team was disqualified at the Delta tournament for "Gross violation of the rules"! How come it hasn't been made public who this team was? I know I dont want them fishing any tournament I'm fishing! If we dont expose these cheaters then they will just go to another circuit. Thats the thing that detours people from cheating in the first place, public humiliation! If we catch them and keep it hush, hush then there is no conseqences for these fools.

Who was it??? What did they do?? Let it out so we crucify these guys!

Mike.

justin lucas · Post by **justin lucas** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:18 am

I don't understand why it should be hidden. Cheaters are such losers and nothing else makes me more angry. It should be announced so everyone knows.

MN · Post by MN » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:31 am

Is how can guy's like that live with the fact they cheated to win any event.I could not i would feel stupid and emberassed and ashamed.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:08 am

It's real simple guys. Public humiliation leads to tournament organizations getting sued and potentially leads to that organziation going away cause it can no longer afford to be in operation after spending all the dollars on legal fees, court costs and potential court awards to the folks suing you.

This is a matter that was dealt with entirely behind the scenes and by no means will any of the information be made public. You simply don't have to know. A team broke the rules, was DQ'd post event after a thorough investigation and forever barred from participating in the Future Pro Tour. The integrity of the tournament circuit remains intact. Anything more would jeopardize the Future Pro Tour and Vince Harris, his advisors and legal counsel simply aren't going to allow that to happen.

As much as you'd like to know who it was just know that District Attorney's don't prosecute these cases when the dollar amount defrauded doesn't amount to much. So as much as you'd like to see these guys hung out to dry, know that they will never attend another bass fishing tournament EVER and leave it at that.

All Future Pro Tour staff have been instructed not to comment any further on this matter. Please respect the organizations wishes and enjoy the FPT events knowing that they do keep a watchful eye out for rule infractions and take serious steps to curb and eliminate them.

What more can a FPT customer ask?

sTony

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:10 am

If no one knows for sure what happend how do you know it was cheating and something like drinking a beer during the tourny? Just wondering????

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:27 am

With the only reliable information available on the subject being the information posted on the FPT website, it is apparent that you guys are making a huge assumption that cheating to win was involved. A quick scan of the tournament rules reveals several areas that rule violations could result in disqualification and/or expulsion from future tournaments. As mentioned earlier even to the extent of consuming alchohol or illegal drug use during the tournament.

While I don't know any more than most of you about the situation in question, the organization officials involved have done what they feel they needed to do in order to protect the integrity of the organization and themselves as officials. Trying to find out specifics of the situation will likely only lead to speculation and rumors.

Ducky · Post by **Ducky** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:30 am

I just read the Future Pro article on this and nowhere on it does it say that the team in question cheated at anything.
All it says it that they committed a "Gross violation of the rules" and thats it. I didn't see one word about them cheating at anything so why jump and accuse them of cheating when nothing was mentioned of that?
The only thing I can think is you have a very guilty conscience.

Ducky

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:32 am

In no way was I faulting FPT for the way they handled this. I think they did a good job policing the rules. I just wish there way a way to deal with these kind of people. If we dont expose them, there isn't any consequences for cheaters. Therfore more will come out of the wood work. The punishment has to be greater then the reward.

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:38 am

But Mike, there was no reward and the punishment is they'll never be able to compete again.

sTony

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:44 am

How do you know they have never gotten away with this before? How do you know they will "never" compete again if "we" dont know who they are? How do I know I wont be competing against them at Won bass, The Hook, 100% bass, Anglers Choice, etc. If I dont know who they are?

FATGUY · Post by **FATGUY** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:52 am

i have no idea what this is about but does future pro notify the other circuits about these guys ?? if not i agree they just go fish something else... as far as someone being sued ?? thats always the excuse. if the circuit followed the rules and did nothing wrong why would they be worried about being sued ??? i also believe the punishment of being public identified would be far worse than just losing a tounament ?? just my .02

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:53 am

right. We would all like to know who and what, but it if Vince posted that on here it would set him up for some sort of litigation. But it is nice to know that Vince and his crew are wacthing what is going on in their oganization and stepping up and "Doing the right thing" for those who are not "Doing to right thing". Once again hats off to Vince and his crew!!!!!!!

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:13 am

I don't want these guys anywhere near the FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE!!
I have always said that if I found someone to be in violation of the rules to the point of disqualification AND being barred from all future events in my circuit, I would not mention their names publicly. BUT, and a big BUT here, I would take the time to notify every other circuit around of the nature of the violation and to give them a "heads-up" for these guys. I agree that none of us knows for sure the exact violation and we don't know for sure if it was indeed cheating, BUT for that type of punishment to be the resulting action can only be something to compromised the integrity of that tournament, the Future Pro Tour and of our sport as a whole. All of the Future Pro Tour anglers can rest easy though, Vince is a professional and he showed everyone why the Future Pro Tour is the best amatuer circuit out there. AWESOME JOB VINCE!!!!

Scott Shambre · Post by **Scott Shambre** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:14 am

I don't want these guys anywhere near the FOLSOM BASS LEAGUE!!
I have always said that if I found someone to be in violation of the rules to the point of disqualification AND being barred from all future events in my circuit, I would not mention their names publicly. BUT, and a big BUT here, I would take the time to notify every other circuit around of the nature of the violation and to give them a "heads-up" for these guys. I agree that none of us knows for sure the exact violation and we don't know for sure if it was indeed cheating, BUT for that type of punishment to be the resulting action can only be something to compromised the integrity of that tournament, the Future Pro Tour and of our sport as a whole. All of the Future Pro Tour anglers can rest easy though, Vince is a professional and he showed everyone why the Future Pro Tour is the best amatuer circuit out there. AWESOME JOB VINCE!!!!

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:22 am

Well put Scott. Like I said eailer Tony hit the nail on the head "Public humiliation leads to tournament organizations getting sued". In court, public humiliation in most cases that makes it to court equals discrimination. I know it sounds liberal, because it is, but I spend alot of time in the court room and this is an road that a TD dosen't want to go down.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:28 am

I want all my money back I have donated over the years! I am going to have to start drinking near beer!

Just so you know guys a "heads up" in legal terms is called defamation of character and tournament directors are wide open for litigation if they even consider barring individuals on a presumtive basis. another reason to not be a TD! but respect and support the ones we have!

MPOLLARD · Post by **MPOLLARD** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:29 am

I am glad to see Vince and staff keeping a eye on people breaking the rules in the FPT.As we don't know what happened cheating our rule infraction,and we know Vince is trying to keep it as a amatuer style circut,he should look in to lye detector test for the top two our three in every tournament.Vince also can do them randomly, like every other tournament to keep them from breaking the rules...Vince's circutt is a amatuer circutt with pretty big money.I think it would help keep people honest....

MPollard...WWW.Teampollardfishing.COM

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:30 am

Bob G it's like this....

Theif breaks into your home and starts loading up your stuff into a bag. On the way out he trips over your door jam and breaks his leg and then gets caught by the cops. Theif then turns around and sues you for not having maintained your door jam. In court you lose, regardless of the fact that the theif broke and entered your home.

See the court system doesn't always look at issues as black and white. And why should the FPT have to take on the financial responsibility. The ABA took huge lumps last year over an incident but the LA DA told them they wouldn't prosecute. Anglers were up in arms about what the ABA didn't do or say but their hands were tied.

I also said that these folks won't show up at other events. That should put it to rest.

sTony

BassTraveler · Post by **BassTraveler** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:37 am

The Bass Mafia.
Get caught and never be heard of again.

Tony wrote: I also said that these folks won't show up at other events. That should put it to rest.

I like how sTony said:"Should put it to REST! Har!

Calistar · Post by **Calistar** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:25 am

think those guys are "swimmin' with the fishes?"...

bassgal · Post by **bassgal** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:59 am

Hey Mike,
If I were you I would drop this whole thing before fingers start pointing at you. You seem to be so quick to point fingers and pass judgement! I don't know if I would want YOU to fish any tournament with me!

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:05 pm

Interestingly enough Mike isn't even a participant in the Future Pro Tour so why he has a 'need to know' is way beyond me.

sTony

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:14 pm

Gal and dude,

Your killing me! You think cheating is ok?? You wouldn't care if someone entered a tournament you were in that was a convicted cheater? I do. No I dont fish the FPT tournaments (wish I could) they are a great run tournament, and my post no where say anything bad against them. But I hate the thought of getting beat by someone who is dishonest! I worked very hard to EARN the respect of my peers for my fishing abilitys (not my fourm abilitys) LOL! Is it wrong to want everyone to follow the rules? Danm, very time I get on here I get jumped. Do you NOT want the same thing as I do???

bassgal · Post by **bassgal** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:18 pm

Mike,
I never said that cheating was okay! NOT ONCE! However, don't be so quick to judge without knowing all of the facts. Besides, do you want to be known in the circuits as the one that likes to stir the pot? Like I said, just from what I have seen, if I knew that YOU were fishing a tournament, I would make damn sure that I wouldn't be there. God forbid that I look at you wrong, you might accuse me of cheating!

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:20 pm

Just follow the rules and you wont

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:21 pm

Lord knows I wasn't jumping you Mike. I was just trying to put your mind at ease. These weren't folks that are going to show up at events you fish and compete against you fairly or otherwise. We all want what's best for the sport. Vince had to make a series of decisions and it's my place to stand by those decisions.

sTony

bassgal · Post by **bassgal** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:22 pm

See, there you go! You have not failed to surprise me these last couple of weeks with your posts! Absoultely amazing!!!!! Just let it rest!

FATGUY · Post by **FATGUY** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:41 pm

mikie don't you know by now you can't post an opinion here unless you are willing to get ponced on whether you are right or wrong ?? watch what i get for saying this .. also i belive everyone who says we don't even know the facts proves your point.. they could have at least stated what rules were broken without naming people. only in liberal california do the criminals have more rights than the people.. wow mike wait til you see what that gets thrown my way .... just my .02 bob g

Ducky · Post by **Ducky** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:45 pm

POUNCE POUNCE POUNCE.....

sorry couldn't resist it.
har har har har har har

But if this whole thing DOES NOT concern you in the slightest then why go on about it. If you were NOT directly involved then drop it!!

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:57 pm

Hey Bob,

You can post whatever opinion you like. I just have to respect the decision of the FPT on this matter and will not give forth any further details. Like it, the forum or me or not, that's the way it is.

Here's a link you and Andrews might enjoy reading if you missed it early courtesy of Scott V. - http://www.goenglish.com/BeatADeadHorse.asp

sTony

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:02 pm

To some extent i agree with you Bob. Would be nice to know what went down. And I can understand why some people want to know who also. But I also know why FPT is not commenting on the issue. So i'm sure we will hear dock side talk true or not about what went down. I personally have never fished a FPT. But I have fished tourines ran by Tony S. and Vince and I will stand behind any ruling they make.

Dan Rechs · Post by **Dan Rechs** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:35 pm

I don't have much tournament experience, but I have a question.

Does the TD to decide the fate of rule-breakers?

For example, if you bring a short fish to the scales, you arenâ€™t allowed to weigh that fish, and get weight subtracted from your total, but not DQ ed. For some they get DQ ed for the day for breaking a rule, some barred for life for that circuit. Also, are the circuits connected? If I get caught cheating (I donâ€™t plan on it but just wondering) at a won bass tournament, will the TD of all circuits be notified, so I canâ€™t fish any of them any more? Or do I just get barred from won bass?

The intent of this post is not to stir the pot or get names posted of people who have broken rules. Just wondering?

Robchik · Post by **Robchik** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:37 pm

... and a participant of other circuits I, to an extent, agree with you Mike. Knowing who they are might help ease my mind when I enter in a tournament. If you break the rules and get caught that's on you and you got to live with it. But let me say this. I have the utmost confidence in Vince, his tour, and his consultants. If there is one thing I could say about Vince, it's he does the right thing. So when he or Tony say it won't be an issue and not to worry, then I believe it won't be and it won't trouble me further.

However I suggest to you, that if you feel like you need to know more information, call or email Vince. It can't hurt. Plus I don't think you'll find specific answers on the forum.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:40 pm

There are all kinds of legal issues that have to be dealt with. If the tournament makes the name publicly known, they open themselves up to lawsuits, right or wrong.
And they will never get insurance again, so they're dead, right or wrong.
At some point people will either have to accept that it was handled appropriately (sTony's post says it was) and move on. Or stop fishing tournaments, because they'll never know if "everything" has been done correctly.
In my experience, people are guided by enlightened self-interest. How would it profit any tournament organization not to handle something like this completely correctly? They would only be shooting themselves in the foot.
All of the directors I've met do their level best to deal with everyone and everything fairly and correctly, because that's how their tournaments survive. No one will fish a circut that's not fair.

MN · Post by MN » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:58 pm

Just when i was seriously thinking of fishing a few tournament's this thing and snag proof crap come's up.To me the fpt had no choice(thanks to liberal california)to do exactly what they did.Besides mike i thought the comradry was what tournament fishing was what i wanted to experiance.Meet people like stony yourself and other's.I hope it is not all about winning but having a good time.Perhaps i am off base but just my .02

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 pm

The intent of this whole thread was not to knock anything FPT did, but to detour anyone in the future from trying this. If you get caught cheating in a tournament, and they just take your money and tell you to go away, You might just go on to the next tournament and try the same thing. But if they tell your mom, dad, pastor, santa clause, etc. then the punnishment would be more than the reward. We need to put the fear in these kind of people, and police ourselfs. Ask some of the ol' timers about it. What would they do? If FPT has enough proof to take away someones money and points, wouldn't they have enough proof to hold up to a slander case?? Why wouldn't they sue for just being dq'ed? It doesn't make any sence. You can dq someone, take their money and points. But cant say there names without worring about getting sued?

sTony · Post by **sTony** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:19 pm

One thing I would point out, to those that believe that liberal California had anything to do with what transpired, is that the FLW went through this a while back. People were talking about it for weeks. The angler in that scenario was known and what we've come to believe was the violation was talked about also. Many folks came down rather harshly on the FLW guys for not giving up the complete and total scenario of what transpired. But the FLW folks knew full well what they could talk about and what they'd prefer to be left as hearsay. They gulped hard and just bore the brunt of the verbal assualts becuase it made more sense then to let themselves get sucked into divulging information that could eventaully spell the end of their business.

My point is... that didn't happen in California or involved Californians. It's not a liberal miind set but one that has been born from ridiculous court decisions that go against folks that didn't do anything other then share the information at hand.

Thanks to all for tolerating my posts in this thread. I surely wish we could talk more openly about what transpired but as the Future Pro Tour Event Coordinator I have to respect the boss when he says we really can't discuss the matter in public or private.

sTony

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:23 pm

I can respect that........Its just too bad....

RougeBass · Post by **RougeBass** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:03 pm

Totally understand Tony.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:52 pm

It will come out it always does .........LOL.........

I think Vince did what Vince thought was best and we have to respect that . I have known Vince for a few years now and and have fished alot of his events so many that if stock options were offered I would own em LOL and he has always had the anglers best interest in mind, Just look at what he has given to us with the FPT.

Just know it was handled and look forward to the next event I AM!!! See yall at Folsom already got the time scheduled off from work, how can I go wrong its on my birthday and all I want is to win it!! .....LOL Fish Gods Shine on me ....lol lol

Also look forward to fishing the whole tour next season with Vince and the FPT staff!

FATGUY · Post by **FATGUY** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:55 pm

i hope no one took my posts as being anti vince or fpt.. i spent a week at el salto with vince and a better gentleman you couldn't find.. but tony to say the liberals have nothing to do with this ( look at me wrong and i'll sue ) attitude ?? i just don't understand... any way vince tony and 99.9 % people associated with this board are great people and some of the best i've ever met .. even if i don't agree with some of their statements.. remember guys are dying over there to protect our right to say what we feel is right .... bob g

Ron Hunnewell · Post by **Ron Hunnewell** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:05 pm

Except there desicion and let it go or dont except it and never fish the FPT again

My .02

Ron H

Ron Hunnewell · Post by **Ron Hunnewell** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:12 pm

When you say they will never be able to compete again, does that mean there is some new structure on the Delta somewere

Scott V. · Post by **Scott V.** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:45 pm

[quote="BassTraveler"]The Bass Mafia.
Get caught and never be heard of again.

Not true. All it takes is 5-7 years and new TDs and new competitors and it's not til you get home and look at the standings that you see that you were competing against them again.

Always, always, keep an eye out.

No joke, this just happened in the last year.

Scott V.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:49 pm

I hear ya! That plows me away also! Does B.C. ring a bell?

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:49 pm

sTony has the Italian lineage and contacts......just being told to go away would be a blessing

**** FOR THOSE OF YOU IN THE PC GROUP, THIS WAS A JOKE AND INTENDED ONLY AS A JOKE****

TWinger · Post by **TWinger** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:24 am

It has been said on the FPT web sight, that there was, " a gross violation of the rules that govern Future Pro Tour events".

"After a thorough investigation regarding the details of the incident was conducted, the decision was made by the Future Pro Tour's tournament competition committee, that this team be disqualified and barred from participating in all future Future Pro Tour events. "

"Points earned will be rescinded and re-adjusted for the participating field, with all forfeited monies re-distributed to the next qualifying teams. "

Find those who were fishing that event, that series, in the years standings, they will know who is no longer there, ask them, look at the old standing list and compare to now, who is no longer there?

You can find the answers you are looking for on your own with just a little work. Once found, tell your friends, other fishing partners, and whom ever else in private. "Only speak of facts" and we will soon all know the truth.

If you are not willing to do this on your own, you are just falling into the pit with the others by letting this type of stuff get by, the whole thing getting out of hand, exaggerated and blown out of purportion. It has been said many times over and over the reasons for the silence by the directors, so respect it, and look elsewhere.

You can be sure the directors have spoken to each other, IN PRIVATE, as they should, so we should do the same. Don't give the directors of these events more grief then they already have.

The Directors don't want this anymore then those of us do.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:44 am

I guess we are all guilty of this, but I thought I could still see his tail wag a bit.

gman20475 · Post by **gman20475** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:42 pm

Per twingers post, I had already previously done my own investigation as to who it was who made this violation in the rules of FPT . Below I will post results that were initially on this site the evening of the event day. I will also post the current revised results from the FPT site. As this is public knowledge and no names are being called out, for those who care to know, you can review the data for yourself and determine who made this injustice to the brotherhood of honest bass fisherman. Take the results and compare who was on in the top 15 and who is currently removed..
On another note here is some more 2 cents..I know that If I see these guys (The Cheaters) fishing in any event I fish, I will bring this up to the TD and make sure he knows that they once have broke rules and let him make the call. I understand Mikeâ€™s initial point as to know who it was or what they did, but not to crucify them but to let folks know to watch out for them. When I fish, I donâ€™t worry about other teams or what they doing, what they using or whatever, im just trying to beat that little green fish and do my best. I would hope our TDâ€™s do their diligence in enforcing rules and making it fair for everyone as Vince did.
But I have also seen semi pro events where folks that have fished pro or have won more then 4-6K in a season continue to fish and per the TDâ€™s rules are not enforcing. Some teams have fished pro teams events won money or boats and fish semi pro events. I know there is a cap on amount to win in a given season, but if I had the time to analyze this data, I would find that some teams have went over the $$ cap and should be fishing Pro..so Whats up with that? Im not trying to cry about it or complain, because I try to give it my all when im on the water to win. But sometimes there is an exception to the rule.
I have been on clear lake and was pre fishing for an event and was fishing in an area really hard to find, tucked away..well I got bit set the hook and pulled up a 6+ bass with a rope tied to him. Well that bass was still tied to a sunken branch down on the bank, I pulled him and the branch with 65 pound braid; poor sucker who returned to find an empty rope on game day. I have been in the delta where I have found freaking cages in the middle of now where. A friend of mine, also has found some cages in the delta with a 8 pounder inside. What the f, so I ask myself sometimes when events are won, if they were honest and caught their fish the way they said they did when they giving their victory speech? All in all we all have to do our part to keep this sport we love fair and honest for all of us..Dam itâ€™s a game, a sport, is it that serious that folks need to cheat to win? Im sure the fish gods will punish them the "the cheaters"(LOL)..here are the results..

Posted on NCBF

Posts: 25
Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:27 am Preliminary results from Saturday's FPT

1 - Harmon/Harmon - 24.48 - $2,450
2 - Hicks/Scanlon - 20.84 - $1,680
3 - Watkinson/Melvin - 20.60 - $1,780
4 - Tarin/Keen - 18.38 - $1,025
5 - Park/Jones - 17.54 - $750
6 - Fraser/Fraser - 16.54 - $500
7 - Alrid/Barnett - 16.49 - $800
8 - Ford/Moody - 16.22 - $250
9 - Manion/Callier - 15.97 - $365
10 - Bright/Washington - 15.30 - $500
11 - Tanasaki/Gragg - 14.68 - $225
12 - Nelson/Souza - 14.65 - $200
13 - Lee/Rosales - 14.26 - $200
14 - Mathers/Berry - 14.09 - $200
15 - Desmangles/Desmangles - 14.04 - $200

Curent results below on FPT website. Ford and Moody are removed.
1. Mike Harmon
Walter Harmon
2. Ken Hicks
Kyle Scanlon
3. Brian Watkinson
Mike Melvin
4 Roger Tarin
Dustin Keen
5. Robert Park
Aaron Jones
6. Larry Fraser
Nick Fraser
7. Sean Alarid
Steven Barnett
8. Bradford Manion
Quentin Callier
9. Sheldon Bright
Quincy Washington
10. Tim Tanisaki
Roger Gragg
11. Justin Nelson
Mike Souza
12. Matt Lee
Mike Rosales
13. Will Mathers
Kevin Berry
14. Roy Desmangles
Richard Desmangles
15. Mike Coelho
Richard Baumgarte