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15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:07 am
by mark poulson
I've read that the EPA has mandated a rise in ethanol in gasoline to 15%.
Will that be out here in CA, too, and will there be come kind of additives we can use to protect our outboard engines?
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:07 am
by Rod Martin
I worry about that too. Right now our reg. 10% ethanol is $2.32 a gal.
But I pay $2.57 for boat gas NO Ethanol
I worry that the crazy California rules will move here and get rid of my boat gas
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:56 am
by monte300
Since I buy all my bass boat gas on the water at Tiki Lagun, I asked them and their gas does contain Ethanol. I currently mix Sta-Bil 360 Marine Ethanol Treatment and Fuel Stabilizer when I gas up my outboard. Is there anything I can be doing better?
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:41 pm
by kmah
I have been using Lucas Oil Ethanol conditioner every 4-5 tank.
https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-trea ... tabilizers
Support those who support our local industry.
K. Mah
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:44 pm
by mark poulson
Ken, is using it every 4-5 tanks going to protect against the 15% ethanol gas?
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:24 pm
by kmah
Mark
The conditioner contains additives to prevent rust and corrosion associated with the use of ethanol fuels. It helps protects your engine oil lubricants from the harmful effects of alcohol combustion.
I guess in plain English I’ve put 5 Mercurys into market in the past 5 years. I run lucas oil synthetic and use the ethanol conditioner in each of those engines. I always keep tabs on the Boats and motors I’ve sold and not a single one of those engines (knock on wood) to this date has had one issue at all and especially with fuel diaphragms, fuel rails etc. which ethanol is know to wreak havoc on.
The 13 and 15 that I sold have excess of 400-500 hours on them and other than gas oil and the 100 hour services those owners have had zero issues.
I feel like it helps and most definitely didn’t hurt.
Ken
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:25 pm
by mark poulson
Ken,
I always add fuel treatment whenever I put gas in my boat.
I'm just worried about the 15% ethanol, I guess. From what I've read it is really bad for outboard engines, like my 2008 Opti.
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing.
Mark
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:37 pm
by monte300
I have a 2000 175HP Evinrude Ficht and have always filled the tank every winter adding Stabil storage. I only use my boat 8 months a year. About three years ago I started getting religious about using the Stabil 360 every time I gas up. This engine probably only has 300 or so hours on it. Knock on wood I have not had any fuel related problems.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:44 pm
by callwakeup
Great topic..,
How about for 4 strokes?
Thanks
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:16 am
by Jerred A Jennings
mark poulson wrote:Ken,
I always add fuel treatment whenever I put gas in my boat.
I'm just worried about the 15% ethanol, I guess. From what I've read it is really bad for outboard engines, like my 2008 Opti.
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing.
Mark
Mark the ethanol Is bad for your outboard. Without a doubt. If your not putting fuel additives your rolling the dice. Definitely with the new outboards.
I have had two outboards have fuelrail and other related fuel issues In the last four years. That have cost me fishing time and money.
You need to put a treatment In your fuel.As Ken said The Lucas ethanol treatment Is a good one and they put money back Into the Industry. I have been using the Lucas ethanol treatment for almost Two years now and It has worked well for me since I started using It. My 2016 Mercury 250 XS had 130 hrs on It and had no fuel Issues or problems when I sold It.
Good Luck.
Good fishing.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:25 pm
by mark poulson
Jerred A Jennings wrote:mark poulson wrote:Ken,
I always add fuel treatment whenever I put gas in my boat.
I'm just worried about the 15% ethanol, I guess. From what I've read it is really bad for outboard engines, like my 2008 Opti.
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing.
Mark
Thanks Jarred.
Mark the ethanol Is bad for your outboard. Without a doubt. If your not putting fuel additives your rolling the dice. Definitely with the new outboards.
I have had two outboards have fuelrail and other related fuel issues In the last four years. That have cost me fishing time and money.
You need to put a treatment In your fuel.As Ken said The Lucas ethanol treatment Is a good one and they put money back Into the Industry. I have been using the Lucas ethanol treatment for almost Two years now and It has worked well for me since I started using It. My 2016 Mercury 250 XS had 130 hrs on It and had no fuel Issues or problems when I sold It.
Good Luck.
Good fishing.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:38 am
by ash
Yeah this sucks all around and the fact that we are doubling down on grain based bio fuels is even more discerning, but thats another topic for another time.
I use the stabil marine in each tank especially when i am not going through the fuel frequently. I am also a big proponent of seafoam in my boat gas and run a separate fuel water separator vs just the fuel filter on board. I am with you I have an older motor and have the same types of concerns.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:20 pm
by mark poulson
Is there an additive that prevents the fuel separation caused by ethanol?
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:38 pm
by ash
Nothing that I have found prevents it, only slows it down. Unless there is some new something and then I'd want to read the white papers on it
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:30 pm
by Bass Pro Shopper
I read an article somewhere a while back that said 15% ethanol will start causing problems for car engines outside of more recent model years. Now, when people start to have issues with their vehicles because of that, you'll be hearing a scream that will hopefully get them to take it back down to 10 or (for marine motor sake) less.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:09 am
by mark poulson
I've been using True fuel treatment. Will switching to another brand of fuel treatment while some already treated fuel is still in my boat cause any problems?
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:46 am
by 65mph Bayliner
I agree 100%, Ethanol does throw a wrench in the mix.
I've been a Race engine/Performance engine builder for 20+ years, Ethanol causes fuel system components to dry out, rubber fuel lines split and leak, gaskets dry out and leak, ect... Worst part is Ethanol attracts water, this can cause major problems for us boaters. Also, for you guys like me who still use carburetors, and some older Electronic Fuel Injection engines the ethanol burns leaner, proper air fuel ratios have always been approx 12.5 full power and approx 14.7 stoich. Add the 10-15% ethanol in the mix and now our full power Air fuel ratio is 12.8-12.9 ish and stoich is approx 15.1-15.2 afr. For us high horsepower guys the ethanol is a great addition to the mix because it resists detonation, this definately helps me and my Bayliner which makes 400+ horsepower. I do use Sta-Bil marine stabilizer when i know the boat sits for long periods of time. This is the key, the ethanol only causes problems when it sits for longer periods of time.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:24 pm
by ash
Defining "long periods of time" is also key I recall reading that after 30 days ethanol begins to separate, i just Dont recall where i read it.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:32 pm
by mark poulson
ash wrote:Defining "long periods of time" is also key I recall reading that after 30 days ethanol begins to separate, i just Dont recall where i read it.
I read on their website that Sta-Bil 360 does protect against E15 gas damage, so I ordered some.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:19 am
by monte300
Amazon is a good place to buy Stabil 360
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:04 pm
by mark poulson
monte300 wrote:Amazon is a good place to buy Stabil 360
That's where I got mine.
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:47 pm
by NoCAL
Keep in mind E15 is only available a few places none of them in CA and is not mandated...yet. Stations do not HAVE to sell it if they don't want to. Mercury says that E10 is safe to use in Optimax and Verado motors, however for early 2000's era motors, the fuel lines do need to be changed to the ethanol resistant type. For what it's worth, I have only ran E10 in my 2 Mercury motors and have never had a fuel related problem. That said I did or do:
Change out the fuel lines
Only use gas from busy stations
Run Quickleen in every tank
Use it enough in the summer that separation is not a problem
For winter storage (1-2 mo. at most) I fill the tank and add QuickCare, Quickleen,and QuickStor at the recommended amounts. I run them through the motor for a good amount of time on the lake at high RPMs.
NoCAL
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:59 pm
by mark poulson
NoCAL wrote:Keep in mind E15 is only available a few places none of them in CA and is not mandated...yet. Stations do not HAVE to sell it if they don't want to. Mercury says that E10 is safe to use in Optimax and Verado motors, however for early 2000's era motors, the fuel lines do need to be changed to the ethanol resistant type. For what it's worth, I have only ran E10 in my 2 Mercury motors and have never had a fuel related problem. That said I did or do:
Change out the fuel lines
Only use gas from busy stations
Run Quickleen in every tank
Use it enough in the summer that separation is not a problem
For winter storage (1-2 mo. at most) I fill the tank and add QuickCare, Quickleen,and QuickStor at the recommended amounts. I run them through the motor for a good amount of time on the lake at high RPMs.
NoCAL
How long before E15 makes its way here?
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:05 pm
by NoCAL
Last info I heard was CA had no plans for bringing E15 here.
NoCAL
Re: 15% ethanol
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:03 am
by mark poulson
NoCAL wrote:Last info I heard was CA had no plans for bringing E15 here.
NoCAL
Man, I hope you're right.