Answer for Am's

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:20 pm

Shut up and fish. Stay out of the way. Treat the equipment like you have to pay for it if it breaks and you will do fine. Fish hard (dont give up).
Rich Smith

Fast 492 · Post by **Fast 492** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:54 pm

I agree with two of your points, Treat it right and fish hard/never give up, but the rest is Bull$#!). Get a clue man, am's are not in this just to donate to the pro purse. Most want a shot at winning a little(or very little) moneyback depending on the circuit......As an Amatuer fisherman, if you (pro) clearly had no clue (and I have seen it) and I made a SUGGESTION ONLY and you told me to shut up and stay out of the way, we would have to see if your automatic SoSpenders worked properly. If you said "Hey bud I paid $3500 to go where I want when I want OR This is how I caught them in practice and I am going to live or die by it", then hey, more power to ya. Just because some guys have questions about how they were treated or the payback differences between pro/am, doesn't mean they are any less of a fisherman/person than anyone else.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:21 pm

Once again the internet email interpretation strikes again. At the end of the day the Pro paid the money and put in the time and considerable expense. If he talks all day join in, if he needs to concentrate and is quiet in order to do so shut up and fish. No one every got mad at someone for keeping their mouth shut like maybe I should have with this post. I would never tell someone in my boat to shut up and fish, I may explain to them that often I fish better with slow presentations when I dont converse. As far as staying out of the way, it is a simple way of saying be ready to go when the pro is, dont cast over his line, keep your gear organized so neither person trips over it at a crucial time. I have fished both ends and to be honest never have had a "bad draw" at either, I have caught em and I havent they have been on em and they havent that is just part of the game. I completely agree with your statement about suggestions but i think you realize how difficult it is to fish an area without confidence that it will produce. The last day of the NG Series I drew a local havasu co angler who was in the top ten. We struggled, he got one in the boat and missed another, I caught one fish with 7 minutes to go but when I asked if he had suggestions he said fish where I have confidence because he had confidence in what I was fishing despite the brutal bite.

What I was trying to accomplish with the post was something like keep it simple, dont read too much into it and remember that alot of the pros have alot at stake (making a mortgage for some) so try and respect that. Believe me, I want my Am to do really well in shared weight, and hope the best for him in non shared weight because it might clue me in on another presentation that is working. I didnt mean to be little co anglers. There are some very good sticks fishing the back and anybody that knows me knows I dont treat anyone differently wether they have won 39 boats or it is there first pro am.
Rich Smith
I am going to assume that not having a clue wasnt a personal attack because anytime I havent had a clue I look for any suggestion that seems reasonable.

Bill kizer · Post by **Bill kizer** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:26 pm

Smitty, thanks for the explanation, you painted a much brighter picture with your revised comments. See you at the tournament.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:27 pm

I've got an idea, AM STRIKE!

If no one wants you, you are not getting treated properly, and feel insignificant, go on strike. The pros will see how fun it is with out you.

Remember, pick up you picket signs at the local back seater union office.

STRIKE!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:47 pm

ONLY A COUPLE OF THINGS I CAN THINK OF.

WHEN YOU TINKLE OUT OF THE BOAT, WASH OFF THE DRIPS !!!

DO NOT SMOKE IT DROPS HOT ASHES ON THE CARPET AND MAKES BURN HOLES !!

DO NOT RUN FROM SIDE TO SIDE WHICH MAY CAUSE THE BOATER TO LOOSE BALANCE AND FALL OVERBOARD OR STEP ON HIS RODS.

DON'T GET SNAGGED UP ALL DAY AND ASK HIM EVERY 2 SECONDS TO GO GET THE SNAGGED BAIT FOR YOU.....

JUST OUR .02...........MEANS NOTHING
JIGS

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:24 pm

Just kidding. I actually really like the pro am format in both shared and non shared weight. I have posted before on the southern side that I trully feel it is the best avenue to become a better angler for anyone that wants to. I think the Bass West Article a few issues ago about being a back seater was the best I have seen regarding what to expect and how to have success.
Rich Smith

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:48 pm

I think maybe we need to look a the bigger picture. With both these treads there has been alot on negativity. You got pros complaining about AMS, and AMs complaining about pros. What good does this do for the pro/am cuircuts. If you look up, and down at the other treads you see lots of people looking for someone to team up with. IMO if I was looking to fish the pro/ams and saw all this negetivity it would make me wanna re-think what I was getting into. I'm sure that there are plenty of ligit complaints on both sides. Did we all forget that fishing was suppose to be fun. I mean yeah some of the pros are in it to make a living, but these are pro/ams. Niether pro nor am can fish without one and other. I just think that maybe if there was alot less negativity it might draw more people into wanting to do these events. I was thinking about doing theses events this year, but realized that I had other things to take care of so i didn't. I told myself I would do it next year. After reading all of this I don't think I want to do it next year either. I'll stick with my team partner because there are no issues there. I take no sides in these treads, but it has made me decide to skip doing pro/ams. Good luck to all I hope it works out for you guys.

MN · Post by MN » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:06 pm

Pretty much said what i was going to,to much drama for me.I will just stick with getting skunked out of my boat.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:07 pm

Fast,

Heh, sounds like the dick I drew on day 3 at Havasu. Two great Professionals and one really bad one. After about 2.5 hours on his boat I started to count down to when the tournament would be over. I was told he had really bad ADD from another Pro when I drew him. At first I didn't believe him as he seemed like an ok guy until he started downing Red Bulls during the tournament. At that point his ADD got really bad and that's when the a-hole side of him started to come out.

They really should change the terminology back to Boater/Non-boater because some guys out there have no idea what the word "Professionalism" means. One nice thing about some of these guys driving wrapped boats is that you can just as easily write a letter to their sponsor with your impressions both on and off the water. If you have a good day and the Pro is true a professional then write a letter to his sponsors and let them know. If they don't, well then you can do the same and let the sponsor know about the negative image you now associate with their product.

Remember the name of the game off the water is Product Marketing and your impression of the advertisers product is what keeps these Pro's in business.

Paul W · Post by **Paul W** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:25 pm

Both the pro and am should treat each other respectfully and as equals. Ideas should be openly shared and discussed, but dont talk the other guys' ear off. This is FISHING, anglers should be concentrating on having a good time and having a productive day. I dont like how some pro's look down at the AM as just being there to keep quiet, net fish, and learn from their amazing knowledge. An AM should not feel intimidated stepping onto a pros boat by a bad attitude and rigid set of rules. Kudos to all the guys out there who keep it fun and respectful!!!!

Paul W

JF4747 · Post by **JF4747** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:44 pm

Hey Vince...

I guess calling your partner a "dick" just exudes the professionalism that you're talking about??!

Does the fact he outfished you 3-0 that day have anything to do with it? Try putting yourself in the Pro's shoes where a $3,500 entry fee is on the line, and I think anyone would be having ADD tendencies! Three fish at Havasu on that brutal day...pretty good!...I think I may stock up on some Red Bull next time to be more efficient!!

Don't call someone out on this public forum, it doesn't show the Professionalism that I think you want in this sport...

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:50 pm

OK, not all AM's are bad and not all Pro's are bad. If you can't take the posability of getting a BAD draw and can't cope with the rest of the so called BS, then PLEASE STAY HOME !!! I try to always treat my Am as best I can with respect and help if he/ she needs it. I have had spills, tears, misstreatment of loaned equipment, and STIFFED on assitance with costs, and many missrepresented abilities just to mention a few..............SO, as we say in the west,,,,,,COWBOY UP !!! or stay at home !!!

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:41 pm

My intent was not to be negative and I am deeply sorry to all if it came across that way. My point as I mentioned in the later post of the thread was that people are there to fish. I didnt realize when I first wrote it, how it could be construed as negative until Fast posted. I was using the often used term of shut up and fish in a figurative manner not literally.

On a positive note. I would venture to say that the majority of Pro's once fished as am's or non boaters or co anglers and understand both sides.

I have never once publicly complained about a draw on either end of the boat and never will. I can honestly say, I have learned so much on both ends of the boat that anything I said, have written, or demonstrated that didnt encourage someone to participate was not intended and I take very personally. Fast was absolutely correct in saying what he did given his take on what I posted ( I should have just posted what I did the second time).

I can only think of one way to make amends. If you would like, we should hook up sometime for a day on the Delta or Clear Lake and go fish and you can judge for yourself wether I am someone you would like to draw at a Pro event or not.
Thanks
Rich Smith

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:50 pm

Be careful what you ask for smitty, I loved the BASS pro on pro format.

It really showed what you were made out of. Nothing like rubbing elbows with the best of them. Especially during sight fishing, that could be brutal. Craig Miller and friends seen me rub elbows with some D%#$ at clear lake for a B.A.S.S. while I was bed fishing. That was an intersting sight!

Bring back Pro on Pro and we dont have to hear any more AM's crying about how they can outfish the pros but cant afford to fish as one!

Smitty wrote:Just kidding. I actually really like the pro am format in both shared and non shared weight. I have posted before on the southern side that I trully feel it is the best avenue to become a better angler for anyone that wants to. I think the Bass West Article a few issues ago about being a back seater was the best I have seen regarding what to expect and how to have success.
Rich Smith

MaddMaggs · Post by **MaddMaggs** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:15 pm

As a amateur (fishing less than a year and never really fished a tourney) I see a lot of perspectives here. Some good some bad. I am planning on joining a local club in my area that has a blind draw format and a "weigh your own" policy. Granted this a local club and some of the boaters may not be "pros".
My fishing buddy and I tend to fish as a combined weight type day, yet braggin rights go to the one who caught the most/heaviest. When me and my buddy fish we try to compliment each other, if he is trowing a DD20 I pick up a lipless in an off color. Same is true if he's darterheadin, i'll toss a dshot or tube. Once we find a pattern we then begin throwing the same.
As a non-boater I guess my responsibility, no matter the format, is to initially try and help the pro establish a pattern (two legs are better then one in an *ss kickin contest). Then its fair game.
I personally treat my buddy as the pro. I prep the boat before launch, make sure the plug is in, oil in the tank, split the launch fee, secure the gear, unstrap the lines...it's his boat that he paid for so I help him as much a possible so he can get in the zone. End of day i recover the boat help wipe 'er down and prep for travel.
My buddy never once told me what to do, I just did it out of RESPECT to him. A pro has a h*ll of a lot more knowledge/pressure than you or I and should be treated as such.
If I ever run into the Ego-Pro and he doesn't appreciate what I am trying to do, then at the end of the day I shake his hand say thanks and throw him some cash for gas.

fishfan · Post by **fishfan** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:29 pm

JF4747,

Its great that you can put your .02 and not put your name on here at least Vince did!

Jeff H.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:04 pm

I wish alot of you guys would just chill with the harsh comments, its getting old. Ive had some great Pro's and while we wernt on fish it doesent mean he was bad. One of the coolist guys that comes to mind is Kenny Cobb, I had him at Havau. This guy told me from the very begining that his boat is my boat and were a team before anything else. While we never got on fish we had a damn fine time cracking jokes and laughing all day. Another recent Pro was Will Jeffries, had him at Shasta. Will knew he wasent in the money so guess what he did, he handed over the boat and I got to run it from the front, he went to the back seat. He didnt have to do that but then again he didnt have an ego the size of Texas. A big sack should not determine the value of a day. And if you have a reputation thats bad, that should be a clue. Paying a large entry fee doesent justify a bad attitude

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:16 pm

There needs to be more ams with your attitude lance... Good luck at havasu!

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:21 pm

Thanks Kevin but not sure if you heard. I talked to God and I asked him if I could be paired up with Mike Goodwin for both days

I'm prepaired to wait on mike hand and foot

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:41 pm

I hope your prayer comes true, You can hand feed him cheese and crackers while he pitches his jigs into the bushes?

You can fish with me anytime Lance!

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:04 pm

You know I'm going to take you up on that Kevin, I cant wait

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:09 pm

Lance,

I hope you draw me during the spring on Clear Lake so I can show you how to sight fish for lake RECORD CRAPPIe in super deep water! HAR>.... Just ask old man Jim!

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:48 pm

YES a lake record Crappie, how damn cool would that be

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:51 pm

Lance,

Old man Jim loved them. That sucker was so big it could have been mistaken for a 4lb Clear Lake Bass and it kept taking the tail of my dam 5" black grape zipper worm.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:54 pm

That must have been crazy! At the last WON Pro /Am turny I caught a 22 pound cat on a Jig. I shouldnt say this but my Pro wasent pleased

but he got over it when i hooked a 6 pounder on the next cast

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:12 pm

Ah the good ole cat, these japanese dudes call me the cat fish pro. I can always seem to flip one during prefish but never during the tourney thank god!

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:16 pm

I thought it was a toad bass BUT is wasnt I was bummed

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Nothing like flippin that jig and WHAM the line is peeling off my reel, get the net, get the net and after 20 seconds the cat feeling kicks in, shoot this aint a bass i know it, well theres still hope its a kicker fish.

Ah sucks get me the gripper cause this smelly thing aint touching my carpet!

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:01 am

Smitty, My reason for not wanting to fish pro/ams was not based on your tread alone. It was just reading all the negativity that has come from this. I do think that what you where trying to say might have come out wrong in peoples eyes. But you have stepped up, and explained yourself, and I hold nothing against you for that. It takes a real man to know that when he says something that is interpreted in a negative way he is willing to explain what he trully means. You did that, and my hats off to you. No hard feelings here. you don't need to offer me a trip to make up for what you said. You already made up for that by re-posting what you really meant. thats good enough for me.

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:56 am

G-Man,
90% of the time pro/ams are great. There are people who go into events with a chip on there shoulder or false expectations who may come away with a bad feeling. When someone goes into an event asking what they should do when they get back seated or their pro is a jerk they often find exactly what they were looking for. Usually about 1/2 of the people complaining do not even fish the events and are commenting on something they heard from a friend.

Are there jerks, yes on both ends of the boat. Don't waist time worrying about the jerks and allow that to get in the way of the 100s of new friends you can make. I have met some of the best people I know through pro/ams. The glass is 90% full in my opinion.

We just got back from Havasu. Fishing was tough, pressure was high, some never caught a fish, but many new friendships were made. There were high points, there were low points. I prefer to focus on the high points.

When my boat broke, an angler I did not know (Todd Woods) stopped to help and risked being late himself to haul us back. Jimmy Reese was nice enough to tow my boat back. Gary Haraguchi walked to the repair trailer to see if they had a power head. Sieg Taylor called to offer me a spare boat that he had with him in case mine could not be fixed. My co-angler for the day (Ed Shaver) stuck around to help me get my boat off the water. The last evening we had dinner with Charlie Evans and he picked up the bill. There are 1000s of great moments at every event and a few bad ones. The bad ones tend to get more press.

Don't let a few negative people or posts that do not communicate the whole picture allow you to miss out on life. Go into each event with a smile and come out with a smile and I promise you will make many new friends.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:38 am

Dewayne, your post are the kind that should be up here. Something positive vs. negative.Something that promotes pro/ams, and makes people want to fish them. My roomate is fishing them this year for the first time, and I will see how he likes it. If he likes it them maybe i'll give it a shot next year. I going to try to focus on 100% FP cuircut this year. Thanks for the positive post.

L.Hackney · Post by **L.Hackney** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:51 am

G-Man'
You wont like it, just stay where your at in 100%.

I could really see you getting in alot of trouble and kicking some Pro off his own boat after knifing him for calling you a name.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:26 am

G-Man, Dewayne posted a really good post and I agree with him 100%. Dont let a few sour grapes spoil your view of something you havent done. Many of these posts dont paint an accurate picture at all. I could go on and on about the great times I've had with Pro's, not to mention the things Ive learned.

Nice post Dewayne

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:36 am

By the way I have given several of my bacj seaters the front in tournaments. And have gad several Pros give me the front when I was an Am

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:44 am

Thanks Lance, I would really like to do it next year. I like the whole format. Its a good way of learning, and upgrading your skills.

Lowell, If you don't shut up I will come to your house, and knife you in the you what.

L.Hackney · Post by **L.Hackney** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:52 am

See guys, I was rite.....
Beware to the Pro's that wanna be dick's. G-Man is out there and could be paired up with you...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:00 pm

Jerry,

You're right I shouldn't call him out on the public forum. Instead I'm just going to write a letter directly to his sponsor so that they have an idea what type of angler they are associating with their company. I'll be sure to give them the whole story along with some very positive feedback for the guys I drew on day 1 and 2 as well.

When you have a sponsor wrap your boat, car or pay for entry fees, etc in exchange for product exposure it's that persons responsibility to ensure that they are always putting their best foot forward. Try reading "How to sell anything to anybody" by Joe Girard and you'll have a better idea as to what I'm referring to.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Vince,

If I could sugest something, you might also want to send a letter to the sponcers of the good guys too. In this day of penny pinching it would be great if the "good guys" got some feed back. Many sponcers might think twice about cutting the funds when they see good things come as a result of there money. So a good letter will justify the output of sponcer monies, therefor making the Pro feel happy and the sponcer feel happy and then that happyness spreads to the co-workers of the sponcers then co-workers might not think that their boss is a duffis. Then the co-workers go home all happy and instead of smaking their kids around becasue the boss yelled at him/her the parents give big hugs to the children, then the children grow up great parents instead of landing in jail costing the tax payers that much more money. So you see, good letters have a long term effect. Ok maybe I went a little overboard

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:47 pm

Lance,

I had planned on that one too. Unfortunately my day 1 Pro was self sponsored. Really nice guy and we had a good time on the water even through we didn't get bit all day. 1 follow... that was it.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:33 pm

That's cool Vince. Sometimes what I do is call my Pro a few days after the turny and tell them how much I appreciated their professionalism. This also seems to be a good friendship builder even when you had a "slow" day on the water. I don't care what some of these guys say, Pro's are human too and they do feel bad when they don't put you on fish. So a phone call always helps them feel better, hey, treat people they way you wanted to be treated. I know a phone call from my Am(if I were a Pro) would mean alot.

L

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:21 pm

Man Lance, you come up with some good ideas..... A phone call is always nice and it shows that even though they may not have put you on fish that you still enjoyed your day on the water!

Kevin

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:23 pm

I try

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:27 pm

you have a pm!

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:07 pm

I have a ton of them

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:32 pm

...yeah, but you look like a dog!

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:38 pm

Thats the greatist picture of my dog Koa, Boxers are very expressive

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:40 pm

yeah brah even mo worse in person. J/k Lance

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:42 pm

Are you still in a daze because Koa tried to French kiss ya. Im tellin you it doesent mean love, its just a dog thing

DAKINE198 · Post by **DAKINE198** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:47 pm

Yeah jus look at da picture she's got that twinkle in her eyes

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