When do you abandon your game plan?

[DAKINE198]

I pre-fished for the R7 Casitas event, I targeted pre-spawn fish in 17-20ft range knowing that WON would be there the day before us. I found four "GOOD" areas that I was going to make a milk run on Sunday. I owe Scott an apology for not putting him on better fish. I really thought I had a good pattern down, and as usual I got my --- handed to me again on this lake. I fished every area the same as I did Pre-fish, I know some of the guys were telling me it was a lot tougher then the previous day. I don't think I would have done anything different (other than getting me a new GPS). But maybe thats my problem, When do you abondon your pre-game strategy and look for something new or do you keep plugging away and stick to your original game plan?

[scottsweet]

This is a great post because I have the very same question. Not only did I have nearly 18 lbs during the Sat WON tournament, I too told my non-boater we would have a good day.

I stuck with my pattern and lost. UGH! Other's input would be great.

Finally, I too need to apologize to Rob Tak (sp?) of Fishing 25 because he should have been getting better fish than little 14" fish. Sorry!!

Thanks in advance.

[Dan P]

After fishing with Kevin S who took 3rd I really thought about his approach and how he caught his fish. It was very different from how I got them during pre fish and for him only being their a few times prior to the tourney he was really able to adjust and key in on 5 of the right bites. His approach was very slow. As I never adjusted to that, I felt I was on them during pre fish and I'm sticking to my game plan and it didn't work. What I took back on Sunday was fish the moment, things can change over night and if all else fails fish it very very slow.

Dan

[Ray L.]

I am not going to give much input on this one because I felt like I sucked there this tournament.

[Mike Phua]

Steve I definitely know where you coming from on this particular subject.

At the last Flw event on the Delta I had a first day I wish I could go back in time and re-do all over again. During my practice I found some nice fish. Nice. Not winning fish. With all that I had found I realized that I was not on the size fish that could win the event.

Instead of fishing conservatively and getting that easy 15lb bag a day and racking up some decent points. What did I do. I threw a swimbait all day. The day was perfect for it......overcast, nice breeze. Had 3 big fish on and somehow they just seemed to come unbuttoned. So time goes on and before I knew it, it was already 2:30. Very poor time management on my part.

This game is won and lost by decisions. For all you guys out there who have won tournaments. I bet you can look back at that one decision either your starting spot or to pick up and move or to switch baits or to completely change your whole game plan and that one decision is what got you that kicker or that unbelievable limit .

Hindsight being 20/20 and if I could re-do that day all over again I'd abandoned the swimbait after the first 3 hours and got a nice limit and went back to it and atleast tried to upgrade that way. Definitely a lesson I'll learn from. It's never a bad thing to swing for the fence but some days you gotta realize the fence is alittle farther than it seems.

The first day of the event I was sitting in a dissappointing 197th place. A very humbling experience that I don't ever want to be in again. After realizing how I blew it I decided to recoupe some points and catch some fish. Weighed in just under 15 and 16lbs over the next two days and finished in 149th. Had I done that the first day I would came in around 70th place cashed a check and sitting 70+ points better in the standings. A bad day fishing is good if you learn from it. MP

[Rob Cummings]

I went back out Sunday and couldn't get bit on my "spots" and the bite I had was not there. After the first 1- 2 hours and hitting my first two spots I "felt" that the bite I was on the day before was not there Sunday. If I had stayed there longer I would have fished the same general areas, just trying to find deeper structure in those areas that the fish pulled off to.

[Rick G]

"Fish the moment". That is the rule that Kyle and I live by. Rick G.

[Ray L.]

Great advice Rick....

[macinckirk]

I am not going to give much input on this one because I felt like I sucked there this tournament.

Talking about someone that sucked at this trny that was ME, Here is my take on the day for my boat. 1st off we stayed way to long on our 1st spot My non boater ( Brain Sasahara ) got a few bites and did put 1 in the boat and loss 1 good ( 3-4lber ) at the boat from this area. but I knew it got Hit Real Hard the day before and after a hr or so we should of moved to the Area I really had good feelings for.

The problum was we then left the 1st spot and moved to a 2nd spot and stay there Way to Long for not even a Bite by this time we got into that Move to Fast Mood and went to the area I really liked and fished it to fast! But this was the Area That I got my 1st bite ( within 5 mins ) and Brain Got the Big Fish from within 15 mins of being there

But we were clock watching by this time and started to move to fast we would fish a point for 10 min Max and move

Thinking back Brain Did Have the Bites to come in with a Good bag ( 3rd place easy) but just didn't get them Hooked. As for Me I would not Change Baits and it Killed Me. So it like what Dan P. said about fishing the lake at the time your on the water not as you did before, Be willing to make a Change and be open minded about Diff Baits.

I just have to Say Brain Sorry you didn't do better I knew we should of hit that 3rd area 1st

Kirk

Brain I'll sned you the pics when I get my Boat back today from the shop

[gt5bass]

Steve,

I don't think it is abandon as much as it adjust and adapt. These crazy green fish we love to chase are constantly changing. We need to learn to be a little more flexible and sometimes more creative. We get locked into fishing "spots" we find in practice. If you can figure out why those green thingys were on "that spot" (patterning) you will have a better chance of figuring out where they repositioned or moved to on tourney day.

I too stuggled on Sunday. I thought I would breeze through a 15 pound sack based on Saturdays performance. The fish I was on moved a little shallower on Saturday and I starter there on Sunday when I finally got my GPS to work correctly but no fishies. My draw also said he and his buddy also whacked them around that depth in practice so we spent a fair amount of time trying to make it happen. I think we each got one. We ran around hit a bunch of my milk run areas and only caught one small fish and a broke a rod. We then went back to were we started except this time I put us out at he next break...bammo...we caught seven fish in the last two hours

Bottom line, it is usually not about abandoning but adapting and as they say "fishing in the moment". Let those pea brained monster tell ya what and how they want it!

Take er eazy Brah!

[swimb8]

Its all pretty easy really. Casitas is a lake that gets real picky when it has a lot of boats running around it, as do most other clearwater lakes. If your bite disappears just slow way down. its still there you just have to put it in front of em. spooky fish dont like to chase after bait. they want it in front of their face. Kinda like me with chicks. i like it when they're handed to me. its easier for all.

[JerryB]

As Swimbait8 said Casitas gets tougher and tougher as the number of boats and tourneys occur. My first spot that has been producing for me didnt produce any bites for me during the Fed tournament. I had to fish a little deeper and alot slower than I had been during my prefish. Some of my areas produced and some didnt. I just continued to fish them during different times during the day. I never found any concentrations of fish on any of the spots. just one here and one there. I have been fishing this same pattern for the past five weeks. I think having confidence in your game plan has alot to do with your decision to abandon your game plan or stick with it..

[DSONG]

At morning, I used ITO-110 to get some reaction bite.
Because of Wonbass on Saturday, I thought fishing was very hard on Sunday. My only choice was to fish with jerk bait and spinner bait to get some reaction bite.

I got fout bites on my Ito by 9:00AM. No bites on my Spinner bait. Harvested only one 2-pounder, three fishes missed due to very timid bites.
I keep jerking till 1:40PM, but the basses are getting timid and missed a lot of fishes.
Then, I realized the basses react Gary's slowly shaking worms.
I changed to dropshot and got three fishes within one and half hour. Without changing my plan, I would have missed three fishes at the very spot.

[DanWarme]

This is one of the judgement calls we all have to make. This is what usually determines the winner. If you can react the fastest and correctly, you will do well. Otherwise, down in flames. And ALL of us have been there.

That being said, I will say that there are NO hard and fast rules. I sometimes change my game plan before I even make a cast. Maybe the weather system that promised Cloud cover all day never showed up. Maybe the wind doesn't blow. Or is howling. any of these things could make me switch everything before I even get the boat wet.

In general, I will stick with a program longer if the situation calls for it. By that I mean if you are fishing in the winter, you don't expect a lot of bites generally. You usually have to keep your head down, keep your bait in the water, and grind it out. You may only get 5-6 bites all day long no matter what you do. Changing up constantly is only going to reduce the time your bait is in the water.

At other times, say late spring and summer, if you're not bit in 1/2 -1 hr. you bettter change. Do you see people all around you catching fish and you're not? better change. Do you see activity on the graph and none in your livewell? better change. Just remember, slowing down is not always the answer! (that's usually when I'm doing well and everyone else says the fishing sucks. They slowed down but the fish wanted it faster.)

Bottom line is there is no set answer. Only time and experience will help you out in this situation. Some angler's seem to have an innate gift for knowing what to do and where to go at a given time. They make it look easy. It isn't and generally, what looks easy is more the result of years of on the water experience and trial and error. Guys like Aaron, Mike Brakebill, Jay Poore, Dick Trask, Dave Gleibe, Mike Long, and Gary Dobyns all spent thousands of hours working hard to make it look easy!

Last bit of advice would be to keep your eyes open! Watch what is going on around you, and I don't mean is that other guy catching a fish? I mean is there some clouds rolling in? Did the wind shift? Is there bait moving in? What are the birds doing?

Classic example happened to me at Casitas Feb last year. I fished HARD all day long and had absolutely nothing to show for it. No followers, no bites, nothing. Was sitting in the middle of a cove contemplating leaving and finding a new past time when I noticed that there were a lot more grebes around me than there had been 15 minutes ago. They were all moving into the back of this cove and they started diving. It just felt like someone turned on a switch and that is exactly what happened.

I picked up a reaction bait and Smoked fish for about 10 minutes. Smallest was a 6#. Literally one pass along a 75 ft stretch yeilded me 10 hits. (Mind you I had just fished that stretch not 10 minutes earlier with the same bait, although a bit differently) And then that was it. Nothing. Switch off and they were done. The birds left and you would swear the cove was vacant.

That's a classic case of seeing something and reacting to it as fast as possible. Once the bite stopped, forget it, you would be wasting your time there for the rest of the day. The fish ate and were done.

[Lance]

I just thank God I drew Ron Licari. I was so beat up from Saturday's pattern or should I say lack of a pattern that I just told Ron that I didnt want the front of the boat and that I didnt have any water. My pattern fell to peices on Saturday and was to wasted Sunday morning to think. So I just junked fished.

[Guest]

I usually abandon my pattern on the way to the lake! Well they were eating cranks yesterday.... Lets see if they'll eat worms too!

In all seriousness, this is a heck of a topic and could go on for days. I think it comes down to instinct... the guys who win know without thinking about it what adjustments to make. I think they are either born with it or get it from years and years of time on the water!

[ash]

I think it is really a matter of being in tune with what the fish are doing and why they are where they are, and looking for where they will be when pre-fishin.

I know I am at my best when I feel dialed into why the fish are where they are, like I can do no wrong. However, on those off days (which are becoming more and more frequent for me) The thing that just KILLS me is I get to my first area and catch one or two fish exactly how I envisioned it... then the bottom drops out. When this happens I get funcky and try to force bites that just arent there. I get frustrated and lose my mental game.

If I am honest with myself and in tune I can usually back off and figure out the change, and adapt. It is usually a matter of slowing down and fishing outside of my comfort zone.

[gt5bass]

I usually abandon my pattern on the way to the lake!

Damn, that's the best idea I've heard yet...talk about fishin' in the moment

Ya gonna man-up and join us at the Rally this year Tom?

[Kevin Shin]

2 months back,,,I started fishing with a new partner for team tournies. He's still kinda green,,,I'm green but way greener than I am.
He kept telling me what he heard from other guys about what and where before the tournament day.

And I kept telling him,,,,stop telling me about what bait and where(spots) and focus on "WHY".

I learned a few things fishing with him because I saw what I shouldn't do.

I've been nagging Phua for some "teaches".
One time he told me when I called him on the way home,,,after a real sucky day on Castaic,,,.
We talked about a good hour and I remember this "try to learn from a bad day,,,"WHY" it didn't work".

Like Rick G and Iaconelli said,,,,"fish the moment". That's what I wanna do and I know it will take a lot of experiences and time on the water. Not just blind casting days,,,,but with based on "WHY" days.

This is the reason I love fishing for these green fish.

[Ray L.]

Frankly I like fishing for brown fish much better. They are the most fun and sometimes the most frustrating.

[Guest]

Hey GT -
Not sure.. I will have to check my calendar.. it's pretty full - but, I should be able to find a way to make it fit.

[Kelly Ripa]

I was just thinking how much I'll miss my brown fish. I was able to call my shots last weekend and predict fish like I did in our last tournament together. I absolutely called three fish because of the perfection of the cast and I missed so many more because I'm getting old...My take on this....TIME ON THE WATER=INSTINCTS...That's how you can stay the course like JerryB when the day began tough he already knew it and what to do about it. Having discipline under fire is an instinct that is worth it's weight in gold. fish or cut bait?...It's always been a tough call for me as I have a rough time leaving fish to find fish. This particular tournament reminds me of the Region 7 I fished with Dave Nichols at Cachuma in 05'. It too was on a Sunday after a tournament had precedid it. I went down to my number one topwater spot and caught a 4 pounder in my first few casts and told Dave we were leaving...Why? Was his question...My answer was I didn't feel that the area would support anymore fish after the day priors pressure as it was a main lake area and sure to have been heavily fished the day before. I cranked up the big motor moved to the ( Wrong Side of the lake ) and used the same lures on less pressured areas. It worked that day and I had enough breathing room in my planned day to fish in the moment that I had created for myself. I stopped twice before I started tossing a big swimbait at this spot because it didn't feel alive when we stopped there. No diving birds no swirls from the tailing trout But when I checked the third time you could feel it in an almost tangible sense.... Ron C. and I think Brian Day and myself had back to back swimbait fish on this day...I missed my third one and had to come back an hour later to pick her off...Big fish for tournament because I could wait out my mistake....Time on the water is what makes my brain work less and my thumb more.

[Sinjin Kim]

I know this thread is filled with replies from boaters, but I would like to add something as a non-boater.

First and foremost, get a feel as to how much the non-boater knows (experience/time on the water). Take a few minutes to check out his or her set-ups and give some advice if needed. If the boater and non-boater are both catching fish, it will set a positive "vibe" on the boat and good things usually follows.

Secondly, if you are boater with a temper, learn to hide it from the non-boater/partner. I don't know how many times I got completely out of my mental game because the boater I was fishing with completely lost it because he lost a fish. When the boater loses his or her temper, a bold communicational barrier is set and the ominous "quiet" sets in; making it tough for both anglers to concentrate on fishing.

Moreover, underestimating your non-boater could cost you fish. Have an ear open for suggestions, regardless how inexperienced he or she maybe. The non-boater may not give you a solid idea as to finding a pattern, but you will be surprised how a few words can get the brain thinking/rolling; that is when the boater could tweak the suggestion and build a game plan.

As boaters, how many times has the non-boater caught fish with a pattern you rather not use? Instead of adapting and loading up on fish, you choose to be stubborn or over confident with your game plan and return to the launch ramp with an empty bag?
The same goes to myself and other non-boaters. Regardless if the boater is a better/ more experienced angler than you or not, if the boater is on to something, jump on it. It could be as simple as the type of line, the length of a plastic, cadence for a ripbait, type of jig trailer etc...

I've fished with Kevin 5 or 6 tournaments this year. The first few were rough. No communication, game plan, nada. I understand Kevin likes to hit the water and figure out what he intends to do when he gets there, but some non-boaters such as myself would like to have everything rigged up the night before. I've fished DVL, Castaic, Perris, Casitas and Puddingstone enough times in my short bass fishing experience to understand basic set-ups are used at all these lakes: jigs, T-Rigs, C-Rigs, D/S, ripbaits, swimbaits etc... and having and idea what should be used with a specif type of rig can save valueable time.

By giving the non-boater some suggestions, it will lead into a smoother time on the water. The night before, the boater and non-boater could agree one would use a 6" worm and the other would use a 4.5" worm in different colors, a jig n' pig for the boater and a T-Rig creature bait for the non-boater etc... by doing these simple things, I think it will save time on the water and easier in finding a pattern. However, if the non-boater asks, "any suggestion on how many set-ups I should bring and what to have tied on?," and the boater replies, "let's just go to the water and see what happens." This could set the tone for the rest of the day.

Just like any other two-man sports, communication, proper game planning (A,B,C,D and oh **** we are in trouble), and a comfortable atmosphere are the basics to having an enjoyable time on the water, regardless what the outcome is. I know this because I have fished with two completely style of boaters.

The point of all this is (although it is indeed important to adapt to conditions to find a winning pattern), I strongly believe having the proper attitude on the water is the most important of all, regardless if a fish is caught or lost. I've noticed the elite pros have the ability to mentally break the frustrating moments (boat troubles, lost of a big fish...) and keep their composure, which usually results to a limit of fish. Then there are amateurs such as myself who get deterred by their partners' attitude on the water and letting it affect my concentration.

For all the other non-boaters who have very little time on the water, learn the very basic by word of mouth, and then learn for youself by hitting the water during non-tournament days. I say this because I took the advice of using a specific hook and incorporating the "proper" hook set when using large 10-12" worms at DVL during a tournament day and I farmed every last fish because I took the advice from someone who had little experience with large worms. As all the pros have preached throughout the years, time on the water is the best way to learn. Get ideas as to what to use and when to use it, but as far as using it on the water, you should let go of your "teachers" hand. I know I have and I am surprised how quickly I am learning.

All the best on the water.

[tunaman]

OK - a lot of this makes sense. However, HOW are you supposed to learn from a bad day? Aside from knowing what DIDN'T work, and maybe getting a hint at what worked from the comments made at the weigh-in (although I'm not sure how often you can could on honesty here), and debriefing with your little circle of friends, it's tough to figure out how exactly you missed the boat and actually learn. Getting out the next day doesn't usually do it, as the patterns can change daily as you all know. It's especially tough for those who can't get out more than once every week or two.

ANY advice any of you can give as to how exactly to discect and learn from the bad days would be GREATLY appreciated.

Roger

[Lance]

Sinjin Kim

That was most excellent read, nice job

[Kevin Shin]

OK - a lot of this makes sense. However, HOW are you supposed to learn from a bad day? Aside from knowing what DIDN'T work, and maybe getting a hint at what worked from the comments made at the weigh-in (although I'm not sure how often you can could on honesty here), and debriefing with your little circle of friends, it's tough to figure out how exactly you missed the boat and actually learn. Getting out the next day doesn't usually do it, as the patterns can change daily as you all know. It's especially tough for those who can't get out more than once every week or two.

ANY advice any of you can give as to how exactly to discect and learn from the bad days would be GREATLY appreciated.

Roger

Roger,,
I wouldn't know what others takes on this subject would be,,,but my case of talking to Phua after the sucky practice day on Castaic,,,,,it was more about how to approach or practice for a tournament. I told him that I wasn't improving much after all these years (less than 2 years ) of tourny fishing. Basically he told me (I assume I can say this on a public forum because it's about general principles of tournament fishing even if I value his advices) that I shouldn't go back to my usual spots to catch some fish. I should be driving around more to find fish then drop the trolling motor to find out how to catch them.
In light of this advice,,,,that day on Castaic was a bad day.
Anyways,,,my take on learning from a bad day was more about how to approach/plan/prepare for a tournament,,,,not about what type of baits or technique nor about spots.
I hope this makes sense after all it's written in poor English.

[DAKINE198]

What???? I can understand that.

[tunaman]

Good input Kevin (and Mike) - thanks.

[DeltaBound]

What???? I can understand that.

He said:

No stay fishin the same kine spot all da time, loook fo da fish and pow catch .

[Kevin Shin]

What???? I can understand that.

Dahum,,,,,, It took me about 30 minutes to write that 9 lines and I can't make me understood

At least,,,I gave it a try.

[Lance]

"No stay fishin the same kine spot all da time, loook fo da fish and pow catch."

This means:

Dont pre-fish the same spots you normally fish, always look for the better fish

[DAKINE198]

Hey Kev, dont get me wrong I'm not knocking you I understood perfectly. Your english is better than you give yourself credit for.

[Kevin Shin]

Dakine,,,
I was just pullin yo legs like you did once before

BTW,,,are you into some other watersports? Dakine's a famous brand for surf and windsurf. You sponsored by them??

[rmcollins3]

Good posts by all. I'll give some insight from the southland. I recently fished in the Georgia TBF Top 6 Tournament on Lake Seminole. There were 405 (yes 405!) boats in the tourney, so pressure was definitely an issue. Practice started on Friday and lasted until 2:00pm on Sunday. Tourney was Monday and Tuesday. I didn't get a SINGLE bite during practice, nada, nill, zip. However, the team I went with didn't get much either. One guy caught a couple dinks, another got some hits but no fish etc. So i wasn't too overly concerned. It was just tough fishing. Plus a good 'ol southern cold front had just blown through, and it was my first time on the lake (talk about an intimidating lake). Anyway, I ended up catching 2 small keepers on Monday to sit in around 140th place. My non-boater only got one 3 lbr. So day two starts, and I'm thinking "well I can't go out and do the same thing as I did yesterday." So, I just went fishing. After not getting bit for three hours into the tournament, I decided to change location - but not by much. The fish obviously weren't quite ready to spawn, and the cold front moved them off. They were either staging or spawning much further from shore. We got in the trees (20ft of water) and started looking for any kind of dropoff or hump. Viola, we finally found a good one. The spot went from 20 ft to 5 ft. in less than 30 yards and had somewhat isolated patches of stumps. In the next hour, I stuck a 2.5 a 3, another 2.5, and a 4lber all on a C-rig lizard dragged slowly through the weeds and timber. It moved me all the way up to 23rd place and got me a check.

FISH THE MOMENT.

[DAKINE198]

I would just like to thank everyone at this time for all your
input. It has given me great insight.
MAHALOS
Steve

[rmcollins3]

Oh yeah, then I came back and fished the BFL on Oconee from the backseat and zeroed (one of 65 zeroes). So also remember, SH*T happens!