Question to all of you who catch bigger fish than me...yes t

[JB]

So although I have been fishing for other types of fish for many years, I only really started to get the bass bug in the last four years. I have progressed so far in four years it is unbelievable.

When I started, I really only new how to catch bass one way, a split-shot rig that someone once showed me. We got skunked often and we considered it a great day if two of us in a boat caught double digits for numbers, and that was when the bite was supposed to be wide open.

Now, I feel as though we have really figured out how to find and catch bass with great success (for numbers). We started fishing some tournaments just to get a feel for where we were in our learning curve and we caught a limit every single time, even in a couple tough tournaments where only about a quarter of the field managed a limit. When the bite is hot, we experience the 100+ fish days like many of you do. But for the life of me, I can't catch the big fish. I have confidence that I can consistantly catch a limit of fish in any conditions that will put me in the middle of the pack. But I don't think I have ever caught a bag, even fun fishing, that would be near the top of a tournament leaderboard.

How do you get to that next level?

There has to be a fundamental approach that I do not yet understand to catching bigger fish. And don't tell me to put away that split shot. I have since expanded my arsenal and have caught fish with just about every technique out there. Even when I am throwing a "big fish" bait, I just continue to catch average fish. It is not just the bait, it has to be the whole approach. I have got on to bites with spinnerbaits, big cranks, frogs, large rip baits (pointer 128's) and still only catch small to average fish.

This tells me I am doing one of two things. Either 1) fishing where there are only small fish, or 2) presenting my bait in such a manner as to only attract smaller fish. To be honest, I have no idea which of these I am doing.

I see the weights at all these tournaments and I just don't get it. 15 pounds would never win it at clear lake, but I would love to catch 15 pounds (only done it once, but that is because four 2 pounders were accompanied by my largest bass to date of 7 pounds). I can consistantly go there and catch 10-12, but I have only caught 15 that one time. I consistantly catch 7-8 pounds at Oroville, but have NEVER caught 10. You get the picture.

What's the trick. How do I get from targeting 2 pounders at clear lake to targeting 3's and 4's. How do I go from targeting 1 pounders at Oroville to 2's.

This is a little long winded, but I think it could be a good thread. I read the reports and see tournaments and sometimes feel like I am the only one who catches lots of small fish, but never big fish. But I have a feeling perhaps I am not the only one in this boat.

P.S. I am going to Clear Lake this weekend for a couple days fishing. I would love to use some of my newly acquired knowledge from this thread to try and catch some bigger fish (just 3's and 4's is all I ask If you have any tips specific for this time of year on that body of water, I would love to hear it. Thanks!

[night guy]

Start fishing at night. This will make a huge difference. I promise.
Night Guy

[smileee]

you should try other honey holes - there are big fish hang outs
you are just targeting the smaller fish hang outs

Clear Lake just blows me away, with all the big fish (double digit) that you can sight and can only occasionaly catch -

Delta also kicks out large fish but I have not caught anything over 6.5# but have actually witness an 11#+ caught and released back into the same hangout.

> So although I have been fishing for other
> types of fish for many years, I only really
> started to get the bass bug in the last four
> years. I have progressed so far in four
> years it is unbelievable.

> When I started, I really only new how to
> catch bass one way, a split-shot rig that
> someone once showed me. We got skunked often
> and we considered it a great day if two of
> us in a boat caught double digits for
> numbers, and that was when the bite was
> supposed to be wide open.

> Now, I feel as though we have really figured
> out how to find and catch bass with great
> success (for numbers). We started fishing
> some tournaments just to get a feel for
> where we were in our learning curve and we
> caught a limit every single time, even in a
> couple tough tournaments where only about a
> quarter of the field managed a limit. When
> the bite is hot, we experience the 100+ fish
> days like many of you do. But for the life
> of me, I can't catch the big fish. I have
> confidence that I can consistantly catch a
> limit of fish in any conditions that will
> put me in the middle of the pack. But I
> don't think I have ever caught a bag, even
> fun fishing, that would be near the top of a
> tournament leaderboard.

> How do you get to that next level?

> There has to be a fundamental approach that
> I do not yet understand to catching bigger
> fish. And don't tell me to put away that
> split shot. I have since expanded my arsenal
> and have caught fish with just about every
> technique out there. Even when I am throwing
> a "big fish" bait, I just continue
> to catch average fish. It is not just the
> bait, it has to be the whole approach. I
> have got on to bites with spinnerbaits, big
> cranks, frogs, large rip baits (pointer
> 128's) and still only catch small to average
> fish.

> This tells me I am doing one of two things.
> Either 1) fishing where there are only small
> fish, or 2) presenting my bait in such a
> manner as to only attract smaller fish. To
> be honest, I have no idea which of these I
> am doing.

> I see the weights at all these tournaments
> and I just don't get it. 15 pounds would
> never win it at clear lake, but I would love
> to catch 15 pounds (only done it once, but
> that is because four 2 pounders were
> accompanied by my largest bass to date of 7
> pounds). I can consistantly go there and
> catch 10-12, but I have only caught 15 that
> one time. I consistantly catch 7-8 pounds at
> Oroville, but have NEVER caught 10. You get
> the picture.

> What's the trick. How do I get from
> targeting 2 pounders at clear lake to
> targeting 3's and 4's. How do I go from
> targeting 1 pounders at Oroville to 2's.

> This is a little long winded, but I think it
> could be a good thread. I read the reports
> and see tournaments and sometimes feel like
> I am the only one who catches lots of small
> fish, but never big fish. But I have a
> feeling perhaps I am not the only one in
> this boat.

> P.S. I am going to Clear Lake this weekend
> for a couple days fishing. I would love to
> use some of my newly acquired knowledge from
> this thread to try and catch some bigger
> fish (just 3's and 4's is all I ask If
> you have any tips specific for this time of
> year on that body of water, I would love to
> hear it. Thanks!

[Scott Crawford]

Remember: "It is a fool who does the same thing over and over and expects a different result"

I would start by fishing the extremes. Spend serious time fishing either very shallow (less than 3 feet) or very deep (over 50 feet). I have been on guide trips and the biggest difference is that we fished areas I would never fish because I thought it was too shallow (on the Delta).
Spend more time on likely areas. Many casts to likely areas instead of a couple of casts and out. Fish early and late. Leave your splitshot, dropshot, and light gear at home. Make a short list of big fish baits and bring only those baits. Fish them all day. Good Luck!

[Ken Sauret]

I found myself in a similar situation back in 1997. I wanted to learn but didn't have much success as a casual weekend fisherman. I decided to fish a WON Bass tournament as an Am. This was the first tournament I had ever entered. I learned so much that first tournament that I finished the rest of the 4 tournament season and continued to learn. I caught the tournament bug and have fished them ever since. My fishing has improved every year. Fishing in a shared weight tournament in the back of the boat will make you a much better fisherman. I'm sure a guided trip would help alot too but I have never done that and can't speak from experience.

The 100% Bass Pro Ams are one day, shared weight events that can fit into anyone's budget. There is one at the Delta this Saturday. Next fall there are 2 left in this years season, one at Clear Lake and another one at the Delta. Try one of these and you will learn those tricks that the Pro's use to get those bags you have been reading about.

Good Luck.

[Rich Thiel]

Scott was right in saying leave your dink baits home.

First off think about what the fish should be doing before you go to whatever lake you decide on. Plastic majority of the time will catch you the norm. Once you locate the norm, think one step above. Think reaction baits, spinnerbait, ripbait, frog. These baits will get you bigger fish in most cases. Sit down and study within yourself how many ways I can use these baits. You should come out with "Many".

To Give you an example, I guide on Berryessa. I was catching 1 1/2 to 1 3/4lb fish and occasional 2 all day long on Worms and Drop-shott'in. I went to Reap'in the new X-Rap and the smalliest was 2lb. You may not get many fish, but you get quality. That morning, a boat that I was giving information too, caught a 12lb 13oz in the same area I was fishing. I have the pic's of that fish but I still haven't developed them yet.

Your No 1 bigfish getter is a jig. Think on How many ways their is in using this "TOOL". Their is "MANY".

Good luck in your Search

Rich Thiel

So although I have been fishing for other
> types of fish for many years, I only really
> started to get the bass bug in the last four
> years. I have progressed so far in four
> years it is unbelievable.

> When I started, I really only new how to
> catch bass one way, a split-shot rig that
> someone once showed me. We got skunked often
> and we considered it a great day if two of
> us in a boat caught double digits for
> numbers, and that was when the bite was
> supposed to be wide open.

> Now, I feel as though we have really figured
> out how to find and catch bass with great
> success (for numbers). We started fishing
> some tournaments just to get a feel for
> where we were in our learning curve and we
> caught a limit every single time, even in a
> couple tough tournaments where only about a
> quarter of the field managed a limit. When
> the bite is hot, we experience the 100+ fish
> days like many of you do. But for the life
> of me, I can't catch the big fish. I have
> confidence that I can consistantly catch a
> limit of fish in any conditions that will
> put me in the middle of the pack. But I
> don't think I have ever caught a bag, even
> fun fishing, that would be near the top of a
> tournament leaderboard.

> How do you get to that next level?

> There has to be a fundamental approach that
> I do not yet understand to catching bigger
> fish. And don't tell me to put away that
> split shot. I have since expanded my arsenal
> and have caught fish with just about every
> technique out there. Even when I am throwing
> a "big fish" bait, I just continue
> to catch average fish. It is not just the
> bait, it has to be the whole approach. I
> have got on to bites with spinnerbaits, big
> cranks, frogs, large rip baits (pointer
> 128's) and still only catch small to average
> fish.

> This tells me I am doing one of two things.
> Either 1) fishing where there are only small
> fish, or 2) presenting my bait in such a
> manner as to only attract smaller fish. To
> be honest, I have no idea which of these I
> am doing.

> I see the weights at all these tournaments
> and I just don't get it. 15 pounds would
> never win it at clear lake, but I would love
> to catch 15 pounds (only done it once, but
> that is because four 2 pounders were
> accompanied by my largest bass to date of 7
> pounds). I can consistantly go there and
> catch 10-12, but I have only caught 15 that
> one time. I consistantly catch 7-8 pounds at
> Oroville, but have NEVER caught 10. You get
> the picture.

> What's the trick. How do I get from
> targeting 2 pounders at clear lake to
> targeting 3's and 4's. How do I go from
> targeting 1 pounders at Oroville to 2's.

> This is a little long winded, but I think it
> could be a good thread. I read the reports
> and see tournaments and sometimes feel like
> I am the only one who catches lots of small
> fish, but never big fish. But I have a
> feeling perhaps I am not the only one in
> this boat.

> P.S. I am going to Clear Lake this weekend
> for a couple days fishing. I would love to
> use some of my newly acquired knowledge from
> this thread to try and catch some bigger
> fish (just 3's and 4's is all I ask If
> you have any tips specific for this time of
> year on that body of water, I would love to
> hear it. Thanks!

[Andy Giannini]

> It going to sound stupid, but you have to fish for bigger fish.

Here is a leap. You have to suspend your own disbelief. Believe with all certainty that a fish will hit your huge jig. (Or blade, spoon, 9x Senko, Ten inch Power worm, crank, or you can fill in the blank.)

There is a certain amount of freedom that will happen in your pursuit. Fish big and wild baits with abandon. Come in empty handed, its OK. Fish in strange locals, at weird depths, at the wrong time of year.

Short of a guide or good tourney draw, seek out a mentor. Or better yet, a great fishing partner that shares the same interest and is hopefully at near same level of angling. A partner that complements the fishing is invaluble to the pursuit. Each new discovery will be like another brick in the foundation of your fishing journey.

"A good partner is like gold." (Barrack)

Another good mind set is forget the limit. Never fish for a limit. Fish for big bites and limit out later. A guy fishing for big fish has already positioned himself in a place to win. A bite or two, he has a chance. Four or five bites, and here comes one of those huge stringers that everyone flips out about.

Here is another weird idea. Watson's Wrat, yeah it might not work in every tournament but that thing brings big fish. Get the "Big Ears" model and fish that sucker. Try it in the mornings, or especially on the eves in the Delta. If that bait does not help break the five pound barrier, there is a link at the end of this post to a scrapbooking forum! HAR!

The toads are out there,

A.G.

[Cooch]

There are bass, and then there are BIG bass, a whole nother breed of fish. Everything about this bigger fish, is different than what we know about the smaller, easier to catch fish we so much fill our fishing days with. It's a mindset, that most of us have absolutely no clue about.

One man and his book opened my eyes to this new theory and outlook on catching big bass. Proffessor Doug Hannon of Florida and his Big Bass Magic. Here's a small piece from that book, read this, you'll see the basic mentallity and thought process. Then, go buy the book and read it 10 times till ya grasp 25% of it, then read it 10 more times ta git another 25% of what he's telling you, the remaining 50% of catching big bass, will come in the time you spend on the water in search of them.

"It's an outrageous ieda. I mean, I haven't got the time it would take, or the money, to go out and devote a month, two months or a year to catching a world record bass. But I'd be a liar if I told you it hadn't crossed my mind. Many fishermen have a fleeting dream of one day landing such a fish, and that's good. Dreaming is what keeps a lot of people fishing.

The ordinary fishermen has felt this way for years; he knows that big fish are where it's at. But big fish are surrounded by mystery and myth. I don't know about you, but I don't get excited about sitting around talking about catching a limit of keeper fish, even though such a catch might earn me more cash than a single 12-pounder, had I caught them during a bass tournament.

In my opinion, this is the great failing of various organized bass fishing societies: not catering to the public's need for big fish know-how. I'd wager a big-bass tournament would get more public attention today than an ordinary tournament with a big cash payout, yet you'll seldom see such a tournament because tournaments need sponsors. And sponsors want fishermen to catch lots of fish, not a few big ones, with their products.

I recently attended one of the major bass tournaments as an observer and asked my professional fishing partner if he'd ever considered concentrating on big fish instead of keepers in a tournament. He replied almost scornfully that he's not interested in big fish. Fortunately, there are more folks who are, than who aren't. If state fisheries agencies and bass fishing organizations would realize this and cater to the needs of the public, perhaps we'd see a wholesale emphasis placed on quality, versus quantity bass fishing."

There's a link attached, if ya shop, maybe you'll find it used and much cheaper, I still got my original, and wouldn't sell it for 10 times what Amazon is asking. Get the book, it will change the way you think, and you WILL see progress.

Cooch



Hannon's Big BAss Magic

[Dave A]

I'm not sure why but I find this thread a bit depressing. JB, it sounds like you are a pretty darn good angler. By the way, I can't recall ever having a 100 fish day. In any event, I too find myself in a similar predicament as you. I can't seem to consistently catch good quality fish, never mind the giants.

I think we are all are looking for the answer to your question. I certainly don't have the answer and I personally don't think there is one answer. As with anything else there are a number of reasons why most of us consistently catch the average size fish and others seem to be consistently have those big bags.

I guess my advice for what it's worth, is to be patient. Time on the water, discussions such as this, and books/magazines are all a part of a long drawn out learning process that refines are angling skills. But most importantly, enjoy your time on the water and don't get discouraged.

By the way, I too have a splitshot problem.

> So although I have been fishing for other
> types of fish for many years, I only really
> started to get the bass bug in the last four
> years. I have progressed so far in four
> years it is unbelievable.

> When I started, I really only new how to
> catch bass one way, a split-shot rig that
> someone once showed me. We got skunked often
> and we considered it a great day if two of
> us in a boat caught double digits for
> numbers, and that was when the bite was
> supposed to be wide open.

> Now, I feel as though we have really figured
> out how to find and catch bass with great
> success (for numbers). We started fishing
> some tournaments just to get a feel for
> where we were in our learning curve and we
> caught a limit every single time, even in a
> couple tough tournaments where only about a
> quarter of the field managed a limit. When
> the bite is hot, we experience the 100+ fish
> days like many of you do. But for the life
> of me, I can't catch the big fish. I have
> confidence that I can consistantly catch a
> limit of fish in any conditions that will
> put me in the middle of the pack. But I
> don't think I have ever caught a bag, even
> fun fishing, that would be near the top of a
> tournament leaderboard.

> How do you get to that next level?

> There has to be a fundamental approach that
> I do not yet understand to catching bigger
> fish. And don't tell me to put away that
> split shot. I have since expanded my arsenal
> and have caught fish with just about every
> technique out there. Even when I am throwing
> a "big fish" bait, I just continue
> to catch average fish. It is not just the
> bait, it has to be the whole approach. I
> have got on to bites with spinnerbaits, big
> cranks, frogs, large rip baits (pointer
> 128's) and still only catch small to average
> fish.

> This tells me I am doing one of two things.
> Either 1) fishing where there are only small
> fish, or 2) presenting my bait in such a
> manner as to only attract smaller fish. To
> be honest, I have no idea which of these I
> am doing.

> I see the weights at all these tournaments
> and I just don't get it. 15 pounds would
> never win it at clear lake, but I would love
> to catch 15 pounds (only done it once, but
> that is because four 2 pounders were
> accompanied by my largest bass to date of 7
> pounds). I can consistantly go there and
> catch 10-12, but I have only caught 15 that
> one time. I consistantly catch 7-8 pounds at
> Oroville, but have NEVER caught 10. You get
> the picture.

> What's the trick. How do I get from
> targeting 2 pounders at clear lake to
> targeting 3's and 4's. How do I go from
> targeting 1 pounders at Oroville to 2's.

> This is a little long winded, but I think it
> could be a good thread. I read the reports
> and see tournaments and sometimes feel like
> I am the only one who catches lots of small
> fish, but never big fish. But I have a
> feeling perhaps I am not the only one in
> this boat.

> P.S. I am going to Clear Lake this weekend
> for a couple days fishing. I would love to
> use some of my newly acquired knowledge from
> this thread to try and catch some bigger
> fish (just 3's and 4's is all I ask If
> you have any tips specific for this time of
> year on that body of water, I would love to
> hear it. Thanks!

[Curtis Rollins]

>

I feel it is a total mind set, there are "trophy hunters" and there are hunters. Loose the dink baits, not that you can't catch big fish on them, occasionally, and not that they have not saved my behind in a tourn. more than once but this post got me to thinkin and I can only recall one fish over 5 with the stuff. Fish Jigs, BIG grubs and ALOT at night. Also the break of daylight and at dusk. The break of daylight is about 45 minutes before blast off in tourn, and dusk is when the stars are out. Most all my fish over 10 have been in these three time frames, early daylight, last light, or at night. The other option is to throw froggie all day in the summer.This is my last choice as my get to the boat after the hook up is low with froggie although the strike is addictive. After the spawn stay with a super spook till your arm falls off.
My favorite 10 lb plus baits are a 8 inch yamamoto grub, florida rigged- 2, 3/8 oz. jig , 3, Super Spook.
Good luck and don't expect to catch 100 fish days doing this. I got to the point of not considering a trip to Clear Lake a "good" trip unless at least one over five hit the carpet. that day I may have only caught 3-4 fish but as long as I had a 5lb fish or over I felt good about it, a 8-10 lber was a good trip and anything over 10 really good.

It is a really different mindset, and even more so for the Fish Cris types out there who yet take it to a totally different level, Gettum Chris..

I'm not sure why but I find this thread a
> bit depressing. JB, it sounds like you are a
> pretty darn good angler. By the way, I can't
> recall ever having a 100 fish day. In any
> event, I too find myself in a similar
> predicament as you. I can't seem to
> consistently catch good quality fish, never
> mind the giants.

> I think we are all are looking for the
> answer to your question. I certainly don't
> have the answer and I personally don't think
> there is one answer. As with anything else
> there are a number of reasons why most of us
> consistently catch the average size fish and
> others seem to be consistently have those
> big bags.

> I guess my advice for what it's worth, is to
> be patient. Time on the water, discussions
> such as this, and books/magazines are all a
> part of a long drawn out learning process
> that refines are angling skills. But most
> importantly, enjoy your time on the water
> and don't get discouraged.

> By the way, I too have a splitshot problem.

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

The sad fact is that there are a ton more of the average sized fish out there than there are of the "hogs"..Now this isn't saying that you can't catch the bigger ones, because they most certainly are caught..If all you are looking for is big fish, then you have to fish for the big fish, just as Cooch and Andy said..

Can you catch the bigger ones on the same baits you are using now, yes you can..But you will catch a lot more of the average size bass doing so..Can you catch the smaller bass by using larger baits, once again of course you can, but you will catch fewer of them..At the same time, using the larger baits you will over all catch fewer fish..Your chances of one of them being the huge one you are looking for is greatly increased..

You may not even have to change the areas you are currently fishing to find the bigger fish, but I would highly recommend trying the larger baits..

Good luck..

mac

[Corn]

If you are catching a lot of dinks in one area, are you saying that there can be a hog in there as well? I ask this because someone once told me that if you're catching dinks, move! ... because there won't be any big ones in there. Not sure if that is true, so thought I'd ask.

[Craig Gottwals]

I hardly consider myself an expert on catching Pigs, but I wanted to just let you know that I have heard the same exact thing. Specifically from Bill Townsed at the Sacramento ISE Seminar on catching Spots on Shasta. He is a HUGE believer in leaving if he catches a couple of dinks.

> If you are catching a lot of dinks in one
> area, are you saying that there can be a hog
> in there as well? I ask this because someone
> once told me that if you're catching dinks,
> move! ... because there won't be any big
> ones in there. Not sure if that is true, so
> thought I'd ask.

[Tony Stoltz]

That might hold true for Spotted Bass, which is what Bill Townsend was referring to however I believe the largemouth aren't this way at all in a lot of cases. You ahve to catch smaller fish to catch the bigger ones generally. While filming Chris Raza this weekend on the Delta he said the same thing. Catching smaller fish is at least an indication that there are fish where your fishing and large fish will make a meal of smaller fish.

sTony

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

The big ones tend to be loners more so than the dinks do..There may be large ones where you are catching the dinks, but chances are the dinks are beating them to the baits..The larger ones tend to set there and wait till a meal comes along where the dink will more readily chase after a meal..The larger bass are a bit mor selective about what they chase after..

mac

[Cooch]

dinks on the River, you call my cell 916-717-2104, me and my Baby Bass Spook will be there in no time!

Believe what ya want, but I can assure you that them fish over 8 pounds on the river, slurp down 6-10" bass like they are trout, a primary forage in the summer time!

As sTony mentions, the dinks thought process you mention, is a lock fer spots that run in schools of like sizes all the time.

Cooch

[Vince Borrego]

Cooch check your voicemail.... I'm all over them right now in my back yard! Come and get em!

Oh and btw my $.02....

In disco right now the best way to find your way into the bigger fish is to start at the points of the cove and work the banks behind the docks in wind protected areas. You'll noticed that the first couple of fish will be dinks then grow in size around the docks. Once you make your way to the "prime docks" in that area you'll notice that the bigger females are either suspending under those docks near deeper structure or on the rock breaks around 7-9 feet deep on the bottom.

Last Thursday I was using this process of elimination as to finding the "prime docks" and caught a 7.5, 5 and spooked a fish in the 10-12 lb range in that prime zone (don't ask the location as I'm not telling where the big fish was I'm stalking her -- photo to come soon).

On those same docks I was catching 10"-15" fish in the 0-4 foot range not more than 15 feet from the big mommas suspending under the docks. You'll also notice that in some areas you'll find a staging area for males where it's not uncommon to catch 4-5 fish on 4-5 casts once you work your way into them.

Vince Borrego
<A HREF="mailto:vince@theblankslate.com">vince@theblankslate.com</A>

[Tony Stoltz]

check the link below...

sTony


WesternBass.Com Book Library

[Joe Bruce]

I found a point at pedro (almost all lg mouth lake) that had probably 150 fish on it. I couldnt belive the graph at first so I lowered the camra down and sure enough them largies (not a belly amoung um) all looked close in size and were swimming in circles all pointed the same way almost like bait fish. For the next hour I was bit every cast. 10 to 14 inchers not a 2 lber in there. I think this was purty related to them stageing getting ready to move into a big spawning cove as other times Iv caught 4 inchers and 7 lbers on back to back drops with the same bait.

as for spots 3 to 5 non keepers Im gone,(except for open water and not if Iv been struggling just to get bit) 1 big one and Ill get out the tent or give um a rest and be back later.

[Corn]

Ok, here's a crazy live bait question. After seeing that Watson's Wrat, I thought-- hey those look like some real rodents. There must be rats and mice falling into the delta all the time. Barrack said the delta bass will eat birds, so I'm pretty sure they'll hammer a rodent swimming along. Imagine a live rodent walking along on top of a cheese mat. BAM! I DO NOT plan on trying this, but could not help but wonder. Has anyone, or do you know anyone, who has tried using a live rodent as bait??? This is ONLY out of curiosity... ok, and for entertainment.

[Dan R]

I had someone tell me years ago that the used mice. They said to rubber band a big hook (I think he said big treble hook) to their backs and be careful when you cast. He said that they cause all kinds of commotion in open water. I never tired it. Never will of course. He could have been pulling my leg but seemed pretty serious to me.

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

>I never tried live rodents, but I would be willing to wager they would work great if you could figure a way to cast them..I have used live tree lizards and they are fantastic..I never had one that lasted more than two minutes in the water..The only problem was catching the bait to start with..I don't remember ever having more than three to use on any given day..

mac

[Shawn]

> Ok, here's a crazy live bait question. After
> seeing that Watson's Wrat, I thought-- hey
> those look like some real rodents. There
> must be rats and mice falling into the delta
> all the time. Barrack said the delta bass
> will eat birds, so I'm pretty sure they'll
> hammer a rodent swimming along. Imagine a
> live rodent walking along on top of a cheese
> mat. BAM! I DO NOT plan on trying this, but
> could not help but wonder. Has anyone, or do
> you know anyone, who has tried using a live
> rodent as bait??? This is ONLY out of
> curiosity... ok, and for entertainment.
If your in the right area it doesn't take long for a bass to find and eat a live mouse.These were priceless as a kid.Garunteed fish!It's just how big or small.I had a bass in a large tank for a couple of years.She ate a good variety of what we could catch in the back yard and what the pet store sold.It was entertainment .one story...I put a giant dad in the tank for company knowing the small bass at that time could not even think about eating it.If any thing maybe the dad would nip a lttle bass tenderloin.One day when I got home the dad was gone.Upon further inspection I found the meatless shell.That little bass shredded that giant dad.No it couldn't swallow it,I knew that.I didn't expect the bass to shred and rip apart like in mid evil days,Awsome!

Shawn

[Corn]

That's good to know. It explains why I still get nibbles every now and then on my jig-n-grub. Never big enough to engulf it and I can tell from the small taps that it's a small fish. I was told that only bigger fish eat dads, but the tank story confirms the dinks hit them too.

On another note, I've had the most violent single BANGS on my jig before, followed by NO weight. I'm pretty sure it's the bass just ramming its nose into my jig ... trying to kill it? You guys experience this too?

[Rich Thiel]

50% to 50% ...Im saying this because of past experiences. If you are catching small fish on every cast and then it ERUPTLY shutsdown. I found that if you wait 10-20minutes and go to a reaction bait. The bigger fish are moving up and the smaller fish are getting the heck out. I found this to held true in many of the Northern Lakes.

Rich Thiel

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

There is the possibility, that your dad started shedding his armour in preparation for the next stage of growth, and your pet bass recognized this and tore into the dad while it was extremely easy to get..Soft shelled crawdads just don't put up much of a fight..Any sized bass could and would eat them in that condition..

mac

[Andy Giannini]

> Not that I know of. Many people after seeing a Wrat will relate some kind of urban legend about floating some mouse out on a roofing shingle. The mouse gets yanked off, once its near the big Bass lair. Sounds cute, but there would be a few problems with getting whole thing to happen. For example, how would keep the mouse on a shingle? Why wouldn't the mouse turn around and just bite the line off?

Dewayne Watson came up with the idea for the Wrat after feeding live mice to the Bass. The story is, he had a live catch mousetrap at his cabin at the lake. (They can hold many mice.) He would empty it, by tossing them in the lake, and fish would eat them before they swam back to shore. I think they may have made minor bets on whether or not the mouse would make it back. It was facinating to him, and he could not get the mouse bait idea out of his head. The Wrat is his attempt to recreate that live mouse look. I think it brings the realisim of fly fishing to baitcast tackle. Pretty cool lure, and it does work, no urban legend or folklore here!

A.G.

P.S. don't walk into the bait store and ask for a pound of mice, half dozen voles, etc...

Dewayne did win six boats that he credits the Wrat for.

A.G.

[Curtis Rollins]

Especially Berryessa!

> 50% to 50% ...Im saying this because of past
> experiences. If you are catching small fish
> on every cast and then it ERUPTLY shutsdown.
> I found that if you wait 10-20minutes and go
> to a reaction bait. The bigger fish are
> moving up and the smaller fish are getting
> the heck out. I found this to held true in
> many of the Northern Lakes.

> Rich Thiel

[Lynn Evans]

Yesterday on Colorado River my partner caught a 10 pounder and then three casts later caught a less than 10 inch bass about 30 feet away on a bar going from 1 foot to 8 foot deep.

[Shawn]

[Shawn]

> Dewayne Watson came up with the idea for the
> Wrat after feeding live mice to the Bass.
> The story is, he had a live catch mousetrap
> at his cabin at the lake. (They can hold
> many mice.) He would empty it, by tossing
> them in the lake, and fish would eat them
> before they swam back to shore. I think they
> may have made minor bets on whether or not
> the mouse would make it back. It was
> facinating to him, and he could not get the
> mouse bait idea out of his head. The Wrat is
> his attempt to recreate that live mouse
> look. I think it brings the realisim of fly
> fishing to baitcast tackle. Pretty cool
> lure, and it does work, no urban legend or
> folklore here!

> A.G.

> P.S. don't walk into the bait store and ask
> for a pound of mice, half dozen voles,
> etc...

> Dewayne did win six boats that he credits
> the Wrat for.

> A.G.

I use to catch my mice in a barn with plenty of bails of hay to flip over.Just start grabbin em and puy them in a coffe can.We'd toss em out in the eve in coves primarily.A #4 bait hook right through the skin on the back.Sometimes we might get bit but it was worth it!

Shawn