Pro/Am boaters thoughts on drawing a AM in a wheel chair...

[TritonBrent]

Hey guys,

I'm posting this for a good friend of mine who is unsure what to do. Unfortunately a few years ago he was involved in a accident that left him paraylized from the waist down. He is a avid bass fisherman like us and gets out probally more often than alot of us do. He has fished off the back deck of a bass boat many times, it just takes a little extra work getting around on the boat. He is wanting to fish more bodies of water with different people to broaden his fishing skills. He really wants to fish some Pro/Ams.

My question is this, for you boaters out there. How would you feel about drawing an AM that is confined to a wheel chair? If anyone has any suggestions for him we would love to hear them. I'm trying to get him to fish the final 2 Won Bass Pro/Ams with me. I feel that he would be welcomed by almost all boaters and I am encouraging him to attend with me. He just started visiting this forum and will be keeping an eye on this thread. Thanks to all that give your opinions.

Brent

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

Wasn't the AA angler that won the Shasta FLW event also confined to a wheelchair..If I were a boater, I would have no problem with your friend..Good luck to him..

mac

[kb]

Wouldn't have a problem at all. I am sure he is way more aware of his limitations than I am and if he is just open and tells his boater any of his concerns I think he will have a great day.

A wheelchair isn't a handicap...a crappy attitude is. More guys get in the boat with a crappy attitude than a wheelchair. Ask the guys at AC. Kirk (Wheels) Rasmussen has done quite well fishing their events.

Tell your friend to c'mon out and get signed up.

kb

[WON Teams]

darn it I have to agree with Kent.

"Wheels" is a great fisherman with a great attitude and always a pleasure to be around.

[BassCatPuma]

Brent,
I know who your buddy is. I spoke to him the other day on the phone and will reitterate what I told him then, If any pro that Draws him has a problem with him being in a chair He is more than welcome in my boat.
Come on out, I think you will have a blast and enjoy the experience.

[NaCl]

*NM*

[Slippy]

Hey Brent i think i have seen your buddy a few times out on the river. I would not have any problem with it.

[Smitty]

I agree completely with kb. I hope he decides to fish some events.
Smitty

[snapitoff2002]

Well I heard that the Am who won Shasta (awesome job by the way!), basically never left the passenger seat the whole day. That sounds like less of a hassle than a guy who has all of his rods on the back deck, and is taking a long time to get seated when it's time to movie.

[JustinD]

I know a guy that fishes all the time out of Tracy in a wheelchair. Anyone having a problem with having an angler in a wheelchair is weak and if its Jesse then they should watch out cause he might give u an a**-whooping from the back deck.

[Ricky-S]

I actually was paired with another Pro during the first BASS on the Delta that was in a wheel chair. It didn't get in the way of anything. In fact, we went in his boat.

[Jim Wilson]

I was also paired with a guy in a wheel chair on the delta. It was no problem at all. The only time I had to help was getting him in and out of the boat.

[Matt Moreau]

I wouldnt have a problem and welcome anyone on my boat who shares this passion of mine!

[Calistar]

Brent,
I wouldn't have an issue at all with any AAA. Regardless of the disability.

However I seriously doubt you are going to see anyone post here who would have a problem with it. They would be opening themselves up to insults and rude responses.

All I'm saying is that you're probably not going to get a realistic result from your question.

Greg H.

[Randy Yeager]

Ditto!!!!! It's all good by me, in fact, my favorite neice is wheelchair bound and we'll be taking her in the boat on Clear lake whenever we get the chance.

I have a pond on some property west of Red Bluff and we're planning to put her on my quad and set her free to fish the pond from the seat of the quad too, she loves to fish.

Especially Ditto on the attitude part.

[nipples]

Brent,
I wouldn't have an issue at all with any AAA. Regardless of the disability.

However I seriously doubt you are going to see anyone post here who would have a problem with it. They would be opening themselves up to insults and rude responses.

All I'm saying is that you're probably not going to get a realistic result from your question.

Greg H.

Greg makes an excellent point... I have an idea... Perhaps if we take away the fear of the unknown, it will help those who are on the fence to see the light. And just maybe, we can convert a couple guys who might be against it but are too afraid to post their view.


So this is meant for anyone with questions about this and those of us with experience can provide answers… Even if you have experience and think of a question someone else might have, please post it and answer it as well. Everyone, please feel free to ask as well as provide answers. People tend to fear the unknown. Ignorance is NOT bliss, it is downright scary. So lets all try to make this a little less scary.

How do they get into the boat?

What if they fall in?

If they fall in, can I call them bob and would it still be funny?

What are they going to do with the wheelchair?

If they bring the wheelchair in the boat and are sitting on the back deck... Am I going to be able to run on pad or do I have to put-put around and can't open up the throttle?

If they bring the wheel chair into the boat, do I have to try to lift them into it on the back deck when we get done running?

Do people in wheelchairs need diapers?

Will I have to help them change a diaper?

Do people in wheelchairs have colostomy bags?

What if the colostomy bag pops?

How is the person in the wheelchair going to net my fish?

Does it mean that I will be helping this person all day long and miss valuable fishing time?

What if they gotta take a sh1t and there isn't a bathroom with a handicapped stall around?

What if a medical emergency arise?

How much extra work is it going to mean and how big of a hassle will it be for me?

What if I don't know what to say to them, or talk about?



OK.. Gotta wrap this for now.. Gotta go get some work done.. But please post anymore questions any of you would like the answers to.

Don't be afraid to ask... Chances are that if you don't know, then there are at least fifty or more that have the same question and want to know the answer as well.

I'll check back on this thread later today and answer anything that hasn't been answered yet.

I have taught a lot of handicapped people to fish. It is an extremely rewarding experience for both you and the person you assist. And for any skeptics out there, it is extremely easy and hassle free. Most are fiercely independent and I have nothing but the most sincere respect for anyone with the drive and guts to conquer a disability and live life to the fullest.

It is because of these experiences I have shared that I have zero tolerance for anyone who thinks they cannot do something. Anyone can do anything they want to do period. The human spirit will triumph each and every time. It is an awesome thing to experience and witness.



Good Fishing,


-Paul-

[Jim Conlow Sr.]

Im willing. I think it would be great. The beauty of our sport is that almost anyone can do it. Even olf fogies like me

[NaCl]

Greg,

There is a difference between willingness and ability. It's important for the boater to know (and admit) his own limitations.

A few years back, I was asked to fish with a "handicapped" person who weighed over 200 pounds. He had undergone chemo and radiation for cancer and was very weak. I was happy to take him out but I also realized I am not in good shape and if he fell in the water I might not be able to get him back into the boat safely. So, I let the tournament folks know of my concern about my own limitations and they agreed. Another fisherman in good shape volunteered to take him out and they had a great time.

So, I would be surprised if anyone in this forum would object to taking a person with limitations fishing but there could very well be circumstances where they should not do it. When I first read this question, I only thought about it in terms of willingness...then I recalled my own experience.

.....NaCl

[Dewayne]

I would use caution and let them know it does pose a safety challenge. Probably not a big deal for them as they are used to challenges.

Years ago Larry Viviano fell into the Delta during a nasty spring tournament. The water was not real cold, mid 50s if my memory is correct. His co-angler was in pretty good shape and between Larry and the help from his co-angler he could not get back into his boat. After hearing Larry's story, I went in in full winter gear that summer and was shocked at how tough it was to get myself back into the boat. That was with warm water. In Larry's case there was a sheriffs patrol boat in the area and it took 4 of them to get him up onto the swim platform of that boat. It does not take long for the cold water to take someones life. Larry was pretty sure that had the Sheriff boat not been nearby he would have died even though he was wearing a vest.

NACL brings up an outstanding point. While I am more than willing to take out a large or handycapped person, there is an inherent risk that is taken that I would assume they understand. The boat manufacturers are equiping all boats with ladders in 2008 and beyond, but they are not practical for a person who is bound to a wheel chair. If all goes well they are in for a fun days fishing. If something goes wrong then the odds of it ending in tragedy are much higher. It's their choice to make, but they need to fully understand the danger.

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

Nipples, Most of your questions are really inappropriate..There may be some cause for concern in situations like this, but in all honesty all it takes is a little bit of common sense and communication to remedy most situations..Sure, you believe your questions are pertinent and some are..Stop and think about what you post every once in a while..

mac

[Cesar L]

im sure everyody knows this, but the easiest way to get back in ur boat if you fall out is to swim over to ur motor and put ur feet somewhere secure and use the trim button on the outboard to dump urself back in the boat. Its has worked for me. as far as fishing witha handicapped person its easy. kirk "wheels" taught me how to fish and I have gone with him numerous times and have never had any issues except he keeps getting fatter and its hard to carry him into his ranger 520vx.....lol

[nipples]

I have friends that are in wheel chairs. One friend, I have known for most of my life. Tim was in his 30s when he taught me the proper use of a chain saw (I was 8 years old and he was helping us clear some forrest to build our pond). Tim was an outdoorsman who made his living doing construction, cutting firewood and selling it by the cord, hunting and fishing. He had a landscaping business, and he was in charge of the grounds at one of the resort featured on TVs lifestyles of the rich and famous.

He was topping a tree, 75 feet up, Full climbing harness, just finished cutting, a gust of wind picked the freshly cut top up, and dumped it in his lap. It took them 5 hours to get him down. Up until then, he had led an extremely active life. But at that moment, he was paralyzed from the waist down. It was devastating. He has a colostomy bag. He went through so much emotional trauma it wasn’t funny. There was a time, more of a phase he went through, where he took pleasure in trapping stray cats, breaking their backs, and watching them drag themselves away. Things looked pretty grim for a bit. There were ups, and there were downs. Things definitely changed.

He had already built his 2 story house with his own hands, before the accident. Tim was an awesome carpenter, stone mason, electrician, etc. The 5 acres his house was built on used to be a part of the farm I grew up on. My parents sold him the land (for a song). It was a gorgeous house, 3200 square feet, two stories. Awesome house.

After the accident, we had to install both an elevator as well as a stair lift for the wheel chair, we widened hallways, remodeled the kitchen and bathrooms, added ramps, etc.

Tim is still very much an outdoorsman and he currently owns his own construction company and personally drives a tractor. He has learned to live with and accept his handicap as well as overcome it when he needs to or wants to. But to this day, he would kill anyone that ever tried to joke about his handicap even though he jokes about it himself. He may be laughing on the outside, but he is crying on the inside. Not all the time mind you, for the most part he tries his best to forget it and ignore it for as long as possible. But the only time you can do that is in your sleep.

Tim has a wife and two kids who are now grown and out in the world. I know how hard it was for Tim because I was there. I know how hard it has been for others because I have vested the face time with them as well.

On one fishing trip in the Puget Sound, Tim and I managed to get capsized by the roller from a ferry boat. We were not too far from shore, but the water was mighty cold even though it was summer (we were right next to the Canadian border). It was within a minute of being in the frigid water, I was still trying to figure out what was the best thing to do. Tim looked at me and cracked the “bobâ€

[Bassman35]

I don't fish pro/ams but I would love to see someone in my boat that is wheelchair bound. It is always great to see people over come their physical challenges and i would think it would be inspirational to see someone face the same challanges as me with positive attitude!!! It would definately stop me from saying stupid comments during the day about the fishing. If I see someone overcome a disability and handle it like a pro it would definately make me think who am I to complain about dropping an 8 at the boat? Tell him to be proud and fish it!!!!! If someone complains its because they are handicapped in the head!!!! I would see it as inspiration.
Bryan

[fishnfreak]

I happen to agree with Nipples, I have wondered the same questions after the Shasta Stren event. While it is admirable to accept the individual, there are real concerns while doing "the right thing"
We are all willing but how many of us are capable??/

[nipples]

Thanks fishnfreak

OK.. Back to topic and to address the unanswered questions.


***How do they get into the boat?***

One leg at a time.. But take some time to think about it for a moment. If you don't have a hot foot on your boat, then you don't need lower body to drive a boat. You can help them into the drivers seat before backing down the ramp. And launch them. And then, it's just a quick slide over and they are in the passenger seat. At most tourneys, there are a ton of guys around that would be more than happy to help load and unload. It's not going to be a problem at all. They will know how they want to do it. Ask and you will know.




***What if they fall in?***

If a guy has been running in a wheel chair for a while, you would not believe the amount of upper body and arm strength they have. Most of the fat guys I see fishing tourneys could never get themselves back in the boat and will die if they fall over in really cold water. Providing the wheelchair bound angler has a rope you can tie off inside the boat, chances are they can get themselves out of the water faster and far better than most guys on the water. They have the upper body strength to do it. I would have no fear about taking them out if they are willing to take the chance.




***What are they going to do with the wheelchair?***

Good question.. They might decide to fish out of the passenger seat or slide over to the driver side. They might want you to take the back seat off and they will put their chair on the deck when you are done running. These guys can get in and out of their chairs extremely well. They can fold the chair and keep it in front of them while running, and they can pop it on the deck behind them when you stop. All you have to do is talk to them and ask them how they want to do things.




***If they bring the wheelchair in the boat and are sitting on the back deck... Am I going to be able to run on pad or do I have to put-put around and can't open up the throttle?***

If they bring the chair in the boat, no they will not be in the chair and on the back deck while running.




***If they bring the wheel chair into the boat, do I have to try to lift them into it on the back deck when we get done running?***

Chances are no, but it all depends on the individual... if you ask them about their capabilities, they will tell you what they are. If they are determined to do it all themselves, let them. If they want or need help, they will tell you.

If they need to be paired with someone who can lift them, then they will tell you if you ask or they may tell you right away without asking. If you talk to them to strategize how they want to move around the boat and fish, they will tell you how they do it. If it is there first time, they may be a little awkward at first. Talk to them, tell them you do not want to offend them and they will understand. Agree ahead of time on what are capable of assisting them with, or that you will not assist until they ask.




***Do people in wheelchairs need diapers?***

Yes and no. Some do, some don't, some have a colostomy bag (which is discussed below). If a person that requires a wheel chair has to wear diapers, then believe me, they are far more worried about it than you are. Again, the vast majorities are fiercely independent so there is nothing to worry about. They have a plan, they know how to take care of themselves, it's all cool.




***Will I have to help them change a diaper?***

No, see the above question.




***Do people in wheelchairs have colostomy bags?***

Yes and no. Some do, some don't. A colostomy bag is a removable, disposable bag that attaches to the exterior opening of a colostomy (stoma) to permit sanitary collection and disposal of bodily wastes. Basically the intestine is rerouted out of an opening in the abdomen (called a stoma), this goes to a tube which has a bag connected to collect waste.

In a boating situation, a person with a colostomy bag has an advantage over an angler that suddenly has to go number two. If a person has a bag, then chances are they have it concealed, possibly in a soft-sided tackle bag, or some other way. Unless you are helping this person in and out of the boat, you would never know they have one... (It's not a good idea to go looking through their soft-sided tackle to see what kinda swimbaits they brought on board. if you go rooting around the wrong bag, you might be in for a surprise)




***What if the colostomy bag pops?***

They are more afraid of this than you are. My guess is they brought a couple extra bags with them... Try to look at this as a positive.. If someone starts to crowd you on your favorite water. It might be a good time to change a bag and see if you can make the three point shot onto the offending anglers front deck. If you are successful, you can both high 5, laugh, and go back to fishing.




***How is the person in the wheelchair going to net my fish?***

Chances are they are not going to unless you lead the fish to them and they have a net within reach with a long enough handle.

If you can't get a fish in the boat without a co angler netting it for you, then you have more serious issues that need to be addressed.

I remember watching footage of a pro at clear lake and every time he caught a dink, he was all excited, and kept repeating get the net, get the net, get the net... only to reel in a crappie??? I would have pushed that guy off the boat if I were that co angler. To me it seemed like the pro was trying to interrupt his co angler from catching fish so he had a better chance to catch them. It was extremely lame.




***Does it mean that I will be helping this person all day long and miss valuable fishing time?***

Chances are no, but it is a valid concern, ask the person. If they have experience fishing tourneys, then they should know.




***What if they gotta take a sh1t and there isn't a bathroom with a handicapped stall around?***

You wing it, ask the person that question... They are more worried about that than you are. They already have a game plan should that need arise.




***What if a medical emergency arises?***

What if it arises with an able-bodied co-angler??? It's no different. There is no more risk of this happening with a wheelchair bound angler.




***How much extra work is it going to mean and how big of a hassle will it be for me?***

Good question... Ask them? They should know. Again, most are fiercely independent. Chances are they don't want to ask you for anything any able-bodied angler wouldn't ask.




***What if I don't know what to say to them, or talk about?***

Same stuff you talk to any fisherman about... fishing, drinking beer, deer hunting, food, dirty jokes, women, etc. They are fishermen after all.




***What if they need me to lift them and I can't?***

They will let you or the TD know.. It is a good idea to ask them if you don't think you can.






(Exactly what Dean Sault aka NACL posted above)...

Lifting a 200 lb barbell or small object is one thing, but 200 lbs in the form of a human being is far more difficult. They call them love handles, but you can't exactly pick someone up by them. If you can't lift them, and that is what they need, then no one is going to fault you for looking out for the safety of your co.

Dean did the right thing, and I am glad he did... safety first, fun and enjoyment second. Yeah, chances are that nothing is going to happen, but an ounce of prevention is well worth it.

There may come a time when Dean gets old and needs to fish with someone who is willing and able to pick him up if needed (we all get old). And I would be more than happy to swap someone for Dean because I am big and strong and I would be able to help him.

And hopefully, when the time comes, someone would do the same for me so that I can squeeze in a few more tourneys before I get too old to fish.


OK.. Questions answered.


If anyone has other questions, please ask them. If anyone would like to share a different answer, please do so. Your experiences may be different, and that is what a forum is all about... collaborating with peers and sharing.

If you are too afraid to ask in forum, please PM me the question, I will post it with an answer, and your identity will remain anonymous. I give you my word that I will not give you any grief for PM-ing me a question and I will not let your identity be known. You PM will be deleted right after I copy your question.



Good Fishing,


-Paul-

[Fishin' Dave]

welcome to the forum fishfreak. I'm sorry your first post ever had to be on a difficuld subject. I look forward to many more posts from you about this great spring fishing!!

[Calistar]

There may come a time when Dean gets old

Ha! talk about a softball...too easy...

I've fished with Dean and when he reaches 80, he'll still be able to kick my butt putting fish in the boat.

***What if I don't know what to say to them, or talk about?***

Same stuff you talk to any fisherman about... fishing, drinking beer, deer hunting, food, dirty jokes, women, etc. They are fishermen after all.

Nips, this question cracked me up when I read it...I thought you were joking, but I guess it is a valid question for some.

I think this actually turned out to be a very imformative thread. I know I learned a lot.

Have a great weekend all....GOOD LUCK fishing wherever you are headed!

Greg H.

[Jeff C.]

Great post Nipples. Thanks for the education.

... however I do believe you were too harsh on Mac. It did appear that you were poking fun in your initial post and I can see why he reacted as he did.

[McLovin]

Hey guys my name is jesse ochoa and I am the one who Brent started this post for. First off I didnt want to start any friction between any one. I wanted to know how you pros would feel about drawing some one in a chair. I can see where Nipples post may have seemed alittle insensitive, but the reality is that they are very real questions that most people would be afraid to ask. After you read his second post you will realize he has alot of knowledge about people in wheelchairs. I thankyou for your response Nipples. Ok back to drawing me as your non boater. I usually need a little help getting my gear into the your boat. I usually just wheelie my chair off the dock into your boat, but somtimes I may need a little help getting in, due to the weather conditions. Once I get into the boat i can take care of my self. As far as netting your fish, you have to bring it to the back of the boat so I can net it for you. If I fall out , I can swim but would need a little help getting back in. Ok I am new to using a computer and this is taking forever to type . I would like to thank all of you for your responses. I would anwer any questions you have no matter what they are. Thank you

[Smitty]

Jesse,
The only question I have is when are you going to come out and fish an event! One of the things I do enjoy about fishing with an AM, a teenager at the Pro Teen or anyone for that matter is the education. Everyone in life is different, has different experiences, overcome different challanges and has a unique personality. While this isnt the reason I fish pro am's it has become part of it. Having someone that uses a wheelchair would be an education for me. As far as other questions, we can deal with those just like any Am I draw, when we get out in the boat. I will go over the boat rules, dont fall in , dont throw over my line, and if you smoke or chew, dont ash or spit on the carpet and if you need anything ask. As far as netting my fish, if I can get em to that side great, if not I can hanlde it on my own.
Smitty

[Dewayne]

I am pretty much with Smitty and think most of us feel the same. I help co-anglers carry their tackle onto the boat all the time. Aiding you on and off the boat in your chair is not a big deal, there are plenty or fishermen standing around on blastoff morning that would be glad to help. Netting my own fish is not a big deal, that way if I miss one I have only myself to blame. As I mentioned before my one concern is safety, specially in cold water as getting someone back into a boat is more of a challenge than most people realize. That's not a reason not to fish, just something to be aware of. I have had that same concern drawing the people over the years that were quite large and out of shape. Has never stopped us from having a fun day on the water.

I would encourage you to sign up. Just like most tournament draw partnerships communication is essential. Talk with the TD and let them know your situation. Be upfront at the draw with your boaters and let them know what assistence you might need. Tell them if they are uncomfortable providing the little assitence you need to let you know now. If you run into a boater who is not comfortable with drawing you then let the TD know and they will have no problem finding one of us who are willing.

Hope to see you at the next event.

Dewayne

[Dan McKenzie]

Jesse
you were hell on 2 wheels, now that you have 4 I for one will stay out of your way

There will always be a few that are uncomfortable with certain situations, either with their own physical limitations, or yours. But as you can see by this thread there are many more that would not have a problem giving it a go. Key will be communicating what you do or may need help with and what you can handle without help.

I know your one hell of a competitor, and have no doubt you'll compete very well in tournament fishing. good luck and give em' hell.

[g-man]

Mclovin check your PM.....

[Tobe]

The only problem I would have would be if he/she had a bad attitude.

[nipples]

The only problem I would have would be if he/she had a bad attitude.

Thank you for posting that Tobe....


This is a HUGE misconception that a lot of people have regarding anyone with a handicap.

I'm not trying to single out Tobe for this... I am glad he brought it up.

If a person suffers an accident that leaves them with a handicap, there is an adjustment period. This transition is extremely painful and will vary from person to person. The duration of the transition is unique to the individual. The people we run into, that have this bad attitude, this “chipâ€

[Tobe]

Thank you for posting that Tobe....


This is a HUGE misconception that a lot of people have regarding anyone with a handicap.

I'm not trying to single out Tobe for this... I am glad he brought it up.

No misconception here Nipples.

My comment was a little satire from the thread about co/anglers with bad attitudes in general.
In other words, I would look beyond the hanicap, I'm more concerned with the person behind it.
Hey, any of us could be in a wheel chair in a blink of an eye.

[TritonBrent]

Good read Paul, thanks for your thoughts.