tournaments in general

D · Post by D » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:29 pm

Is someone going to wake up out there and take a look at tournament fishing? I think there is a real problem when most tournaments are drawing from 15 to 20 boats on average,are there to many circuts? 100% bass seems to maintain at least 50 boats and I know that figure is down from previous years. Have Won, ABA, Anglers Choice priced themselves out of the market or is there so many conflicts in dates etc I know as the weather gets better the opens start up is that the conflict? I dont know but when I stated it was with Nor-Cal and there would be average of 60 boats, Won used to get 45 to 50 boats then came the others and it al drops off. What is the answer? also who is going to lead the pack and come up with some kind of over 50 circut? just food for thought.

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:59 pm

Lets see, too many tournaments but you want an over 50 circuit? Good luck.

RichThiel · Post by **RichThiel** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:24 am

Too your Question> Simple, think about this. All the organization's know have a semi-pro curcuit. Ask the guys that fish it and you will find that most well say that their not good enough to go against their respective local pro on their lake, at least thats what they think.

The thing is everyone is beatable in any given day. They give many reason's why they don't fish the Pro level. One thing that I've really seen is there is alot of sandbagg'in within the semi-pro level.

Just my thoughts and observation's.

Rich Thiel

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:15 am

the answer to u'r question is "too many circuits to fish"!!!! then on top of that, you take out all the guys that think they are "semi pros" and they fish those events.... everyone is just too spread out.... i think eventually, all the so called "semi- pro" guys will learn that to be good, you have to forget about the "pros", FISHERMAN, and fish against the fish... once i realized catching or not catching the fish on a given day decided "my" finish and not the "pros" i'm fishing against, i have become alot more consistent....

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:25 am

It would be cool to have one tournament per month where they draw 150 boats.

It just won't happen. Guys love to fish every weekend, love to gamble and try to get a check. Add to that scheduling, family, and work and you can see why everybody is so spread out.

David Rogers · Post by **David Rogers** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:34 am

I think that gas prices and house prices have a lot to do with the amount of boats in tourney's these days but Future Pro last March pulled 122 teams at Berryessa but I think its the Gas and Morgage thing over all and the fact that when gas was $1.00 less when alot of the circuits started and now you have small turn outs. I like what you said Rich Thiel, any one is beatable on any given Sunday, odds are against you but it can happen, I could have tied Ish Monroe one of my fav B.A.S.S. guys at the Delta last week, he got 0 lbs, hey I can do that:) No disrespect to Ish, I really like him I am just agreeing with Rich.

Im a wishin I was a fishin.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:39 am

I think Rich nailed it. When I started fishing tournaments back in the earley 90's, most team tournaments would draw from 50-120 boats. If you were just starting out and wanted to fish for money, you had to fish with the big dogs and take your lumps (donate) for the first few years. Now guys just starting out (and even some that have been fishing for years) are fishing the semi-pro, Future Pro, Rookie teams. So now in pro team tournaments you only have the seasoned guys fishing them 20-30 on avg. Its the same group of guys fishing every weekend. The same names finishing in the top 5 every weekend. Mostly the guys that get to fish 3-7 times a week, which gets old for the weekend guys having to fish against these guys with no pre-fish. It gets old handing your hard earned $$ to the same guys every weekend.

392 · Post by **392** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:06 pm

Its all about the money for me. I think some of these "seasoned" guys are fishing the semi pro stuff because there cheaper. What happened to the entry fee below $200. All of the Pro Team circuits are pushing $300 an event, that's not including membership at the first tournament. Entry fee-$265 pre fish gas $70 gas at tourney $70 = $405 just for the 1 tourney, and that's being conservative. I know i can't do that every weekend anymore, I have to be more selective on the tourneys I fish.

BassNCop · Post by **BassNCop** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:29 pm

Entry fees have gone through the roof with fuel prices

No separation between Pros and Am's (most tourneys). The only sport that I'm aware of that the Pro's chase the same purse as an Am. Been called a "Filler" by a Pro once...hmmmm...got me thinking.

Way to many circuits

For me....I have a career that keeps me from pre-fishing, which is huge if you want to finish near the top. Take a look at the Mother Lode for example. The same guys are usually at the top all the time...why? PRE-FISHING has tons to do with that.

How about tournament directors attacking people online? Another good reason to stay away from particular organizations.

So my cure for all this is....fish only a few random "the low cost" tourney's. I have more fun just going out on the lakes and staying away from tourneys.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:39 pm

Any TDs listening????

COST IS LISTED AS A MAJOR REASON NOT TO FISH

Good buisnessman sees the demand and fills it

Bill kizer · Post by **Bill kizer** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:13 pm

RMANZO wrote:.... i think eventually, all the so called "semi- pro" guys will learn that to be good, you have to forget about the "pros", FISHERMAN, and fish against the fish... once i realized catching or not catching the fish on a given day decided "my" finish and not the "pros" i'm fishing against, i have become alot more consistent....

Lets see, last year after a lot of discussion on WesternBass.com it was decided I was a professional fishing as a rookie in the WRL. This year I started out fishing as a Pro in the AC circuit. That is till the last tournament was cancelled due to weather.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,, my partner and I decided to fish as, semi pros in the AC Clear lake circuit.

We still havenâ€™t ruled out fishing the WRL, because we enjoyed that one also.

So,,, the moral of the story. Personally I like all the different opportunities that I am able to fish.

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:41 pm

I started fishing the semi-pro division this year for a few reasons.

First was the entry fee, it's about half. Some know my situation, some don't, but in a nut shell I don't make the money I once did(and that wasn't really that much). My wife and I were also blessed with a child. Saving money is a must!

I can't prefish. I go and wing it most of the time. I feel I have a better chance. Not saying the folks I'm fishing against can't fish, I just have a little more confidence. I know I'm fishing against the fish, but the guys that can spend all that time on the water refining what those fish are doing, have got a huge advantage.

I've also fished a few years worth of pro/ams in the back of the boat. I know I can fish with any of these guys, but the reasons listed above are keeping me from running with the big dogs. I can't be alone, I ain't the only one out there.

To address your original statement. It's human nature to try and improve on everything. Why did all these other circuits start up? I think it's because someone else thought they could do a better job. That's another human nature, EGO, I'll have the best circuit ever

.

Come up with something good, there's room for it

!

D · Post by D » Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:03 pm

Thanks for the great response to this issue, I think Manzo hit the nail on the head to many circuts and to much semi pro which I have seen guys that are pros fish those things because its cheaper. I am fortunate enough to be able to overcome the price of going but still the cost gets old and having to work for a living its hard to get good practice in, however if guys would start fishing the fish and believe they are good enough to compete there is no reason not to go head to head with the smal group of guys that seem to be in the payzone every tournament they fish . This business of calling other fishermen Fillers is talk from someone with to big of a head. Believe me when I say if I get lucky enough to find the right fish and it has happened in the past I will beat anybody, so I continue to fish the pro side even though I get discouraged, if the semi pro guys would think about that maybe that would be the answer to so few boats. I hope the TD'S think about these issues as the Ecnomics are not going to change any time soon and I believe its going to get worse.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:04 pm

FUNNY THIS SHOULD COME UP TODAY. I JUST GOT BACK FROM STOCKTON , AT THE FAIR GROUNDS WHERE I HAD A LENGTHY TALK WITH RANDY PRINGLE ABOUT JUST THIS TOPIC...........THERE ARE CERTIAN PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO BRING BACK THE $ 80.00 ENTRY FEE WITH $ 20.00 BIG FISH AND THATS IT A COOL $ 100.00 ENTRY FEE.................I PERSONALLY THINK IT WILL GO....................THE THOUGHT IS THAT GUYS DON'T CARE ALL THAT MUCH ABOUT THE MONEY, IT SEEME TO BE LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE DONE OR DID OR WHO I AM / FISH WITH, AGAINST ETC ......

MAYBE, MAYBE NOT...WE'LL SEE......

JIGS

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:47 pm

THERE ARE CERTIAN PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO BRING BACK THE $ 80.00 ENTRY FEE WITH $ 20.00 BIG FISH AND THATS IT A COOL $ 100.00 ENTRY FEE.................

Please, please, please!! I would love to fish more tournaments. Stockton bass had such a low price for so long that everyone seemed to show up. $50/guy is do able. If you want bigger checks, suck it up and fish pro.

kb · Post by kb » Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:55 pm

Guys you have missed a very big part of our smaller fields and why they are down. I read several of the posts and many of the guys mentioned "they were fishing the Clear Lake circuit" or they are fishing all the Delta tournaments.

Our organizations have made it too easy for the anglers to stay on one lake and fish....no off limits make is too easy for a team to not commit if they practice and don't catch them, they don't fish.

Guys can fish two different circuits on one weekend on the same lake and there are too many circuits that fish one lake. Some step out and even fish two but very very few fish six or seven lakes for one circuit. The one lake team guys will look and see where the TOC is at and if they don't like that lake and it isn't on their home lake they don't fish the circuit.

There are circuits that fish one lake on every body of water we have that is worth fishing on. It isn't about to change any time soon no matter how much gas costs.

kb

hackettd · Post by **hackettd** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:44 pm

YES , 300.00 dollares for entry fee and mebership,is alot money ,
fishing is to be fun but you put that in the mix it's not , so thats the reson you only see 20 boats out there pepole have to eat ,

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:52 pm

Option this, Option that.....I realize it's "my" choice to enter or not....Geesh. Greed is taking away all the fun and now it's slowly killing the tourneys. I'd rather spend the day on a lake and actually enjoying fishing. Not to mention saving myself $300+ bucks! After reading these remarks I am happy I don't fish many tourneys. Seems like an aweful lot of unhappy fisherman out there. Get away from the tourneys and you'll once again enjoy fishing and be happy again....not to mention have a little extra money in your wallet! LOL

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:43 am

I think they should have the offlimits for Nor-Cal Bass and all Pro team events , FLW national guard has them Bass has it . I know your fishing against the fish , i have heard that a million times but i can tell you this much if you think your going to have a fair shot at doing well in a tourney when guys are up there for a week pre fishing your sadly mistaken .
Plus i have seen it where the fish just get beat to heck before the tourneys , who wants to go up and have a frustrating tuff day just trying to catch a few fish ? Im sure you have all experienced this in the 100% team events this last year where you catch some fish 2 weeks before the tourney then it gets tuffer and tuffer until before the tourney your just hoping to get a limit of fish . Im not sure if it is that way in other regions but that is how it is going in the Motherload circuits .
Nor-Cal Bass started out as the "Working mans circuit" i think it is time it got back to what it started out as . Lower the entry fee to 150.00 with no options include a 10.00 big fish in that entry and see if the circuit doesnt grow .
Everyone wants to feel like they have a chance to win or just place well and when they dont feel like they have that chance the numbers drop and most just give up .
I know a boat to give away at the TOC seems to be important for some guys , to me its not that big a deal . Maybe if it was more affordable they could draw 50 or more boats and have a boat to give away at the TOC , but unless we all step up and commit to fishing good circuits like Nor-Cal were all going to suffer and your going to have the 15-20 boat tourneys .

Basssman · Post by **Basssman** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:56 pm

I truely believe that the reason that The Future Pro Tour gets a big, if not the biggest turnout is because of 2 reasons.

1) $130 gets you in everything. A lot of guys will split that and fish even w/o a prefish.

2) $5 per-event membership instead of having to pay the whole thing.

However, every other tournament org. is adding more and more options to the entry and most will get ya for $300+ to fish a tournament.

NaCl · Post by **NaCl** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:47 pm

Even when a tournament "circuit" only draws 12-18 boats, a tournament director still nets a couple hundred bucks. There are plenty of fishermen who are willing to play "TD-for-a-day" for $200 on a Saturday...for about four hours of work. So the one-lake wonder circuits will continue to operate because its easy money for the TD.

The only way this is ever going to change is if a few bigger circuits get some sponsors to kick in a little extra $$$ so the big circuits have enhanced payouts. When the "traveling" circuits attract enough anglers away from the one-lake venues with great returns on investment, then the small circuits will get priced out of business as fixed expenses cause low "wages" for the TD's.

.....NaCl

basstrophy · Post by **basstrophy** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:49 pm

I agree with Brian Ruthman about making pro-am tournaments off limits during the week.

As for the economy right now it sucks big time and most guys just can't afford entry fees, gas, gate fees, pre-fishing, and boat payments.

I would rather spend less on an entry fee and get a larger boat count then pay more and have less boats show up.

I feel the most important thing is how much money is put into the pockets of the companies and guys running the tournaments.

When I see 20 boats at $200 each boat which brings in $4000 total purse and then they pay out $2500 to the top four teams while $1500 is put into their pockets this is what really hurts all circuts. The way I see it why give them 25%-40% of all the entries fees brought in. I know these percentages will vary with each circut.

Keep the cost of the tournaments down and pay back more. We all know it cost money to put on a tournament. To keep everyone honest just show the exact percentages the circuts keep. Then the tournament fisherman will only fish the circuts that pay back the best.

Nor Cal Bass pays back the best just check their pay back for the amount of boats they have, it's obvious.

I would rather fish a turkey shoot with 20 boats at $50-$100 each boat and see all the monies paid back to the fisherman.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:07 pm

NaCl wrote:Even when a tournament "circuit" only draws 12-18 boats, a tournament director still nets a couple hundred bucks. There are plenty of fishermen who are willing to play "TD-for-a-day" for $200 on a Saturday...for about four hours of work. So the one-lake wonder circuits will continue to operate because its easy money for the TD.

The only way this is ever going to change is if a few bigger circuits get some sponsors to kick in a little extra $$$ so the big circuits have enhanced payouts. When the "traveling" circuits attract enough anglers away from the one-lake venues with great returns on investment, then the small circuits will get priced out of business as fixed expenses cause low "wages" for the TD's.

.....NaCl

I AM A LITTLE CONFUSSED; DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE FOR HIGHER ENTRY FEE TOURNAMENTS AND OPTION MONEIES; OR FOR A LOWER DOLLAR ENTRY FEE TOURNAMENT CIRCUIT ??

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:25 pm

Basstrophy I totally agree......MORE TURKEY SHOOTS!

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:36 pm

hey nacl... i wish w/12 boats i made $200 for "4 hours of easy work"

you obviously haven't done this before... as far as me being a td for aba, i am lucky to break even... if i didn't give away all the things i do, and not have a bbq at each event, and not have placques for the top 5 and so on and so on, i would probably make a buck!!!! all of the extra things i do for the fisherman comes out of my pocket, not from the event $$$... aba is $130 to enter.... "THATS IT"!!!! you want to get in big fish "OPTION" it is an "OPTION" $20...some circuits put the big fish in the entry so they can keep a percentage of it... i pay it back 100% to top 2... you want the $10,20,30,50 "OPTION" get in it...it pays back 100%... if not, don't... ALL you guys that "KEEP USING THE EXCUSE" you will fish for a low entry fee,,,, here is your chance,,,$130!!!!! see ya sat @ mclure

I'll even pay your membership if you show........

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:49 pm

I'm with Dean on this one.

There are too many small one-venue circuits out there right now.
With that many numbers, it makes it tough to get sponsors to kick in money to have a decent payout. As KB mentioned, tournament bass fishing needs to return to the multiple lake series, this will make all of us better anglers in the end.

RMANZO wrote:you want to get in big fish "OPTION" it is an "OPTION" $20...some circuits put the big fish in the entry so they can keep a percentage of it... i pay it back 100% to top 2... you want the $10,20,30,50 "OPTION" get in it...it pays back 100%...

If some circuits include the big fish option in their entry and make a percentage that's ok with me, at least I know what I'm getting into.
But most team circuits do not disclose the option money that is collected, we have no clue what the actual payouts are.
If you claim to pay 100% of the options, then post the amounts that are paid into the option pool.
When we fish the FLW or the shared weight Pro-Ams, we know what the total payout is going to be.

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:36 pm

there is a option sheet that shows who got into what at all my events... you should come out and fish one,,,, you might like it

this is a totaly different "motherlode" aba than the ones in the previous years.........

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:37 pm

Tobe - in the spirit of what you posted I will post my options from this past weekend

21 teams participated

Big Fish - $20 per team - $420 collected
BF#1 - $136
BF#2 - $115
BF#3 - $95
BF#4 - $74

$10 Option - 19 entered - $190 collected
#1 - $95.00
#2 - $57.00
#3 - $38.00

$20 Option - 19 entered - $380 collected
#1 - $190
#2 - $114
#3 - $76

Right from my Excel spreadsheet. I will add, if there is anyone who ever has a question with my options, please ask. I will be glad to show you the printout and payment receipts. I want to keep everything I have aboveboard.

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:50 pm

I appreciate you putting it on the board for all the world to see. Shows me there's nothing to hide. Says volumes.

Good luck in the future and I hope your numbers grow.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:30 pm

There are 52 weekends a year and 335 tournaments that I know of â€“ that is 6 tournaments per week - here is the breakdown.

Draw type Tournaments = 26 Tournaments
FLW National Guard = 4 each
FLW Stren = 4 each
WON Bass = 6 each
Nor Cal = 10 each
Plus 2 TOC

Team Events = 273 Tournaments
WON Bass = 98 tournaments
American Bass = 131 tournaments
100% Bass = 44 tournaments
TOC ? (could not find them all)

Future Pro = 14 Tournaments
WRL = 6 Tournaments
Hook = 6 Tournaments
Tracy Oasis = 6 Tournaments
4 TOC

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:33 pm

Great list and to think, it doesnt even have the Anglers Choice Team tournaments, both pro teams and regular teams as well as the Federation events.

Does that list include so cal as well? If so ad in National Bass and the top stick tour.

Marty wrote:There are 52 weekends a year and 335 tournaments that I know of â€“ that is 6 tournaments per week - here is the breakdown.

Draw type Tournaments = 26 Tournaments
FLW National Guard = 4 each
FLW Stren = 4 each
WON Bass = 6 each
Nor Cal = 10 each
Plus 2 TOC

Team Events = 273 Tournaments
WON Bass = 98 tournaments
American Bass = 131 tournaments
100% Bass = 44 tournaments
TOC ? (could not find them all)

Future Pro = 14 Tournaments
WRL = 6 Tournaments
Hook = 6 Tournaments
Tracy Oasis = 6 Tournaments
4 TOC

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:48 pm

Dang I forgot some â€“ but the list does include So Cal.

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:39 am

I don't fish many tournaments because If I lose then I can't go fishing the next two times I want to go

. It just costs to much to go these days. I would rather just have fun more trips then to gamble with a trip or two of my fun fishing. I plan to do an open now and then each year that's it. With Tournaments for me they have to be planed like a trips.
If it is for money you should get in Bass or FLW LOL!!
You want them fun? I think paying 1 in 4 spots would draw more, or even 1 in 3 pays would be AWESOME. More will walk away feeling like a winner. If the guys that are always in the top are going to be always in the top, pay more spots to keep more teams in the game and better chances to get something back. NOW that's fun. The only guys that will hate it are the ones winning your money all the time now

The thing I hate is to hear is "Come fish this one, it is for fun" But you can bet you butt they have come to take your money LOL!!
I have had more fun fishing these (Opens) with my wife. (now that's having fun)
Hell there are lots of good points here. I just thought I would let you know what I thought would be real fun. I like the 1 in 3 wins

Don.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:05 am

IMO this will level the field just a little.

Tobe · Post by **Tobe** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:59 am

Gator,

Your willingness to be honest and open shows your true character.
That will go a long way with anglers, perhaps you have taken a step that many will follow.

Every participant knows that TDs and organizations must make money to keep their circuit alive, it is the mystery of our entry dollars that leave many asking questions.

Thank you again Gator.

Hardshell · Post by **Hardshell** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:07 am

DFG Permit = $48
Trophy's = $165
Insurance = $75

That's $288.00 that the Tournment Director pays before you get in the gate!

Then if you're fishing one of the many government controlled lakes you add their special fee of $50-$150, some even higher.

You have 2 vehicles to get you, your help and all your equipment to where you are going, so add $100-$125 for fuel.

It also cost us to enter the facilities to put on these events so add anywhere fro $20-$40 for that.

Most of us have several thousand dollars invested in tournament equipment ie. computers, software, scales, trailers, fish handling equipment, PA systems, boat, etc. etc. etc.

Now of course you all want that chance to fish for a boat at the end of the season so there's the loins share of dollars. Angler's Choice quailifiers can fish 3 TOC's for 5 boats!

Angler's Choice's basic entry fees are $175, $10 comes off the top for the Big Bass award which is paid back 100% = 25 boats $250 BF award.

There are three options, $15, $30 and $40, that are just that, options, that are paid back 100% to you the fisherman. For handling and distributing that money I get $0.00.

Can you see where I'm coming from? I think that there's enough information here for most to make a few calculations a see that tournament fishing is really not very lucrative for anyone involved when turn outs are as low as they have been latley.

Why do we do this? There are many answers, some rational some not, but each Tournament Director has to make his own decisions.

The overwhelming opinion here seems to be that we need more low cost tournaments. I submit to you that no matter what the cost are to enter if someone isn't picking up 25%-45% of the cost to operate these events then you the fisherman won't have events to fish.

Most organizations and tournament directors understand that recreation dollars depend directly on the disposable income of their participants. We are in competition with every other recreational venue ie. casino gaming, sports events, PPV TV, you name it.

In the end, it's all about dollars for the tournament organizations and the love of the sport for tournament directors.

I've said enough.

Hardshell

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:16 am

PLEASE EXPLAIN A COUPLE THINGS TO ME;
INSURANCE ??? WHY WHEN ALL BOATS ARE RERQUIRED TO HAVE A MINIMUN INSURANCE ANYWAY ??

TROPHIES..MOSTLY DONATED YES ___NO_____

GIVE AWAYS RAFFLES ETC . MOSTLY DONATED YES ...

LOWER THE FEES..........STOP THE OPTIONS.......MAKE IT SIMPLE IF YOU LOOSE YOU WON'T HAVE TO REFI YOUR HOME.......IF YOU WIN, YOU PROBABLY BREAK EVEN, GET NOTIFICATION, GET A EGO.

JIGS

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:19 am

Tobe wrote:Gator,

Your willingness to be honest and open shows your true character.
That will go a long way with anglers, it is the mystery of our entry dollars that leave many asking questions.

Thank you again Gator.

I couldnt agree with you more Tobe, I just wish more would do it. Like Future Pro and other questionable Org's like that. Might help clear up some of the rumor's.

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:40 am

Tobe, Gator and I have heard many times that anglers want open books at the tournaments. When I get mine going here next month. I will have the same policy.....I have nothing to hide. Just ask and ye shall receive.

Rodger

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:01 am

DON PEDRO JIGS FALL CLASSIC NOV. 29TH 2008, SIMPLE $ 100.00 ENTRY FEE INCLUDES BIG FISH..................PAY BACK IS 1 IN 3 , OVER $ 3000 IN GIVEAWAY TACKLE TO COMPETITORS EASY SIMPLE BY BOAT NUMBER RAFFLE. LOTS OF FREE FOOD..............FLEMING TRADING POST STORE................THATS IT >>>>SIMPLE..

THANKS.................NO OFF LIMITS PERIOD YOU JUST CAN'T DO IT NOW DAYS UNLESS YOU POLYGRAPH EVERYONE !! TO HARD TO POLICE THIS ITEM !!

JIGS

Hollywood · Post by **Hollywood** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:22 am

THE JIG SHOP wrote:PLEASE EXPLAIN A COUPLE THINGS TO ME;
INSURANCE ??? WHY WHEN ALL BOATS ARE RERQUIRED TO HAVE A MINIMUN INSURANCE ANYWAY ??

TROPHIES..MOSTLY DONATED YES ___NO_____

GIVE AWAYS RAFFLES ETC . MOSTLY DONATED YES ...

LOWER THE FEES..........STOP THE OPTIONS.......MAKE IT SIMPLE IF YOU LOOSE YOU WON'T HAVE TO REFI YOUR HOME.......IF YOU WIN, YOU PROBABLY BREAK EVEN, GET NOTIFICATION, GET A EGO.

JIGS

I dont run tournaments but I will take a shot at these. The reason for you to have insurance on your boat is because your partner might fall out and die, or you might hit a reef or buoy and your partner might be injured or worse die, therefor they want you to have insurance so that his partner of yours is protected as well you. the reason you purchase insurance for 5$ at each event is so that if you slip and fall on the weigh in stage and break your rear, when you sue this organizer his rear is covered by the insurance company.

trophies donated? Some are some are not, depends if they have a sponsor for that.

Give aways, yes I am assuming they are donated.

Lower the fees ad you can't cover the costs it takes to put on an event unless your getting the bigger number of entries not the 21 that showed up at the delta last week.

Why get rid of the options Jigs? They are simply options. If you dont want to enter them, or simply can't afford them, or you think they are not good for your team, then well dont enter them. But for the rest of the field who want to win something along with there peice of wood trophy, then let them enter them.

If you fishing and you don't win and the results are you must refi your house mortage then maybe tournament fishing really isnt right for you at this current state of finances you are in??

Just my guess

CN · Post by CN » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:49 pm

Jon wrote:IMO this will level the field just a little.

I agree but it will never happen.

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:23 pm

Just pass out pay scale flyers when you join. Then there is no question. I did this with a small club and everyone knew what would be comming to them with the turn out that showed up.

Don.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:24 pm

I view Tournament Originations/Directors as running a business on their own or through a franchise. That makes a lot of the costs as â€œThe cost of doing businessâ€

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:25 pm

Good questions and points made so far. When the numbers get to a certain point, it's not worth fishing and the numbers fall farther. Many anglers are tired of a few teams dominating on a certain body of water. Every lake has a few "hot shot" teams. Many of us "old" guys remember the Sac Valley Region drawing 150 to 180 boats. We also traveled to 5 different lakes. It will also make you a better angler. Gas prices? Heck, you're still fishing. Guys are spoiled by only fishing their own favorite pond. Now this is back firing. Yes, we have more tournament circuits, but not one of them are drawing any numbers. We are talking TEAMS. Do you guys remember how everyone got excited about "The Best Team" format a year or so ago. Then some DUMB-AS* wants to spread the schedule from Arizona to Oregon. This does take gas and too much time. In the old days, we had off-limits. This evens the field a lot for the working guy. It also saves a lot of money, because the way it is now, guys feel they need to practice as much as they can to stay competitive with the angler fishing during the week. I don't know if there really is a great answer on how to turn things around, but they suck the way they are now.

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:01 pm

Gary , I couldnt have said it better myself !! I think we need to get back to some of those old days and have the offlimits , might save all of us some money on fuel and also be able to spend time with your family which should always come first , it definately does level the field for the working guy . Im glad to hear this from someone who has no bias either way

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:35 pm

THERE YA GO HOLLYWOOD, WHAT GARY SAID IS WHAT I AM REALLY TRYING TIO SAY; BEINGS I AM NOT A SPORTS WRITER OR COLUMNIST.

THANKS

JIGS

Guy Kelley · Post by **Guy Kelley** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:48 pm

For two seasons, my son and I fished a armature style of format.

It was a mixed bag of local and faraway locations.

$45.00 membership each for the year spread over 6 events

Insurance $ at each event

Options at each event $80.00 if you get into one might as well get into all.

Total each event about $185.00 for the cost of the tournament with options and insurance

Motel, gas, food, Misc truck expense about $200.00 for traveling, subtract about $60.00 for motel, if local Delta tournament we stayed at home, but add it back in because son traveled from Chico or Redding and back. So it's about a push.

Boat expense with launch fees round up to $70.00 each event,

Miscellaneous Tackle and extras $50.00

Total for each tournament as average $550.00

total for season of 6 tournaments $3300.00

This dose not cover any cost to Pre-Fish. That would be on top of the listed cost.

Maybe you TD's are starting to see the light. These cost were just for Armature level, Not Semi-Pro or Pro or any other level you might want to dream up.

The two seasons I fished the Pro/Am circuit my cost were very close to the same. Less the cost of running a boat.

The two seasons my son and I fished we did not win one Penney. But we did have fun and learned a lot. Was it worth $7000.00 plus !?

In the long view of things , I would say yes. Did I see or experience things that I felt were unethetical !? Yes

Just as well as I think the TD's and Owners need to rethink there game plan if they want to see people like us to continue to fish there circuit. I see the cost associated going up not down. And for the average person who wants to experience tournament fishing I think the cost are getting out of hand and that is why you are seeing people drop out. Add that to the computation of other tournament organizations competing for the same fishermen and you will be at the situation you are at now.

Too many Tournament Organizations, Costing Too much Money for to few fishermen. At least that the way I see it.

I think it can be fixed, but you would really need to think out of the box to do it. I believe Mr Dobyins, RipRog Hardshell and a couple others had it pretty close. And ABA doesnt have it bad either, but will they get more numbers of players ?

cbwiii · Post by **cbwiii** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:18 pm

View from a guy who has never fished a team format tournament, and was going to (but some of you are scarin me):

I fish club (Fairfield Suisun Bass Reapers) "outings" mostly with my 10 year old boy. We would like to "try" the team format. I've looked at the options I could find, and even the "Hook" and WRL run $100 or so. That, (considering all the other costs and saving for college) looks like a pretty big donation.

It sounds to me from the posts here and my limited experience, as if there are quite a few circuits competing for the same teams; however, the skill levels are all over the place. Why isn't there a $50 entry fee circuit that fishes for plaques and/or a small check? How do you draw new people in if the entry is $200? Is there a parent child circuit or other "feeder" for these "big buck" tournaments?

We'll bite the bullet and fish one at $100, but it better be good!!!

RipnRog · Post by **RipnRog** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:44 pm

Hey CB remember one thing... the fee of $200.00 includes options and you do not have to get into those..... they are and never will be mandatory. you can fish and ABA even for $145.00 per event if you want..... The Hook does have a $50.00 circuit.....

Maybe the hook might want to think about having a spring / Summer series....

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