No Swimbaits tournament

[Dan Stahlman]

Let's see, we have frog only tournaments, swimbaits only tournaments so how about a tournament where no swimbaits can be used. I see guys winning tournaments throwing swimbaits that don't even know how to flip or pitch. Ever since swimbaits have come on the scene (I also use them), I believe a lot of the shall we say old time mano e mano has gone out of Bass fishing. You don't need the knowledge you once needed to win tournaments (boy am I going to get ripped on this one) but instead a good strong arm and back and a lot of money invested in them. To me a lot of the fun has gone out of it probably because I'm old and feeble and can't throw them all day for 5 big bites. So I prepose more swimbait less tournaments. What think you boys and girls.
Dan

[sTony]

I'm not what I consider old, my kids think I am but I won't go there, and I get worn out from throwing swimbaits also. It's an interesting concept. Why not go ahead and try to do one Dan? We'd help you promote it if you got it off the ground.

sTony

[Tin Can]

Being a guy who is young, and has no problem throwing big baits all day. I will tell you this, I still suck at fishing them, if it was as easy as you seem to think, I'd have a lot more success than I have with them.

It's just another tool, just like any other bait. IMO

[BassManDan]

Hey I'm of the "new" generation of bass anglers, but I don't throw alot of swimbaits, simply because that's not how I like to fish. Sure, I can't disrespect a shellcracker or an osprey talon, but I totally agree that swimbaits have changed the face of bass fishing.

I wanna see a good old fashioned day of bassin with jigs, spinnerbaits and texas rigged worms!!!

Good idea, make them swimbaiters sit one out, or see if they can hold their own with a jig tied on!

[mr.bass91]

Dan, you are certainly entiltled to your opinion and if you dislike swimbaits that much then I would say get yourself a tournament together and don't allow them. I can understand where you are coming from because throwing big baits all day is work. I too hated swimbaits until I basically committed to learning how to use them. A couple 40 to 50 pound bags has made me a huge fan. I have also had many days where I haven't even had a bump on a swimbait.
However to basically say throwing a swimbait is a no brainer is far from the case. Just chuckin and winding a swimbait is not going to cut it most of the time but you may stumble upon a willing fish on occasion. The guys that know what they are doing are going to get more swimbait fish to go 90% of the time. They have the knowledge and the retrieve to catch them. Timing is also involved, you have to be at the right place at the right time. Yea they are expensive but for a couple hundred bucks you can cover all the bases. Swimbaits have for the most part changed the face of fishing just the same way as flipping and pitching did and the invention of the rubber worm.

[bassindon69]

You guys are funny. If they get those fish to go on another bait they will still kick your butt
Then what? 4" worm tourney only
Who out there that uses swimbaits does not know how to flip or pitch? I don't know one.

Have fun!

Don.

[ripdlip]

Goodness sakes. Sounds like somebody has been getting his rear end kicked by some swimbait guys.
I wish it was that easy, just show up with your swimbait tied on and you win. Might be a little more difficult than that my friend. Should they get rid of the Designated Hitter in baseball also? Nooooo

[ash]

Just look at guys Like Russ Graves who will go out there and throw the big bait all day. They have GREAT DAYS and then BOMB too, its part of the gamble of go big or go home.

Graves and Maes were wrecking machines as Johnny would dropshot and Graves would throw the big bait.....

It sounds to me like you would rather a tournament be fishing creme worms and spinners on a 5'5" pistol grip.... I dont fish swimbaits exclusively and I probably dont fish them enough, it is another tool in my arsenal. A Big Hammer, MS Slammer, Hudelston, etc.... all tools to accomplish a goal on that day!

[Sacto John]

You don't need the knowledge you once needed to win tournaments (boy am I going to get ripped on this one) but instead a good strong arm and back and a lot of money invested in them.

Well allow me to rip away.

I think that is one of the most inaccurate and absurd things I have read on this board in a long time. I have been bass fishing for close to 20 years now and fishing swimbaits seriously for the last six years. I can honestly say that figuring things out on a swimbait is by far harder than any other technique I have learned. Guys that have effectively learned to catch swimbait fish have put in countless days on the water to pattern these fish. I know that I have, and I am just now really starting to get things worked out. It is possible that it is because swimbaits are such an effective tool in locating and catching big fish, many are not as open to help other anglers learn the specifics of this technique, which is unfortunate. Be that as it may, to discount the skill that dedicated swimbait fisherman posses, sounds a bit like sour grapes.

Of course this is just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

[Dan Stahlman]

Geez John, I posted this with tongue in cheek. Chill out, I'm not attacking anybody's manhood.
Dan

[Joe Bruce]

bring it on, the swimbaits have shown me were the big ones live & a few of them will still eat a splitshot now and then

[RMARX]

I am as comfortable with 6# test and a Senko as I am with 30# test and a Huddleston! I just choose to fish for a drop-shot limit or two in one bite! It makes more sense! Oh, by the way I have a really bad back too!

[CN]

Well I can say this there is way more than just chucking these thing's out and reeling them back in.I have yet to buy one of these $40.00 lure's but I do have a handfull of the 9" Huddleston's that were given to me but I have yet to catch a fish on one.

I think most guy's feel they have to throw these to catch big fish now day's so that's the main reason most of the bigger fish cought in Tournament's are cought on swimbait's.

Swimbait's have been around a lot longer than some may think they have just taken it to a higher level.

I was along for a ride with Shaun Bailey in an event at Clear Lake and watched him fish these thing's.It was not at all how I thought you would fish these.Sometime's he would drag it along the bottom or make it more like a wakebait along the top or fish it half way down.

I asked him arent you afraid your going to snag up and lose it???

Naw I get these for free :lol:He won the event and it was not cought on a Swimbait.

[Chaozu]

Swimbaits are just another tool. Yes they tend to catch bigger fish. But you cant rely on swimbaits to win tourneys at all. It happens and guys do catch winning sacks with them, but not year round and not consistently. If the big bait bite is on, then you would be dumb to throw anything else, but how would you know if it's on if your not already chuckin 'em? You can fish the big baits the same way you fish the normal cranks and spinnerbaits and such. Let the fish tell you how active and where they are, then incorporate how they're eating and chasing bait into your swimbait technique. Put it where they are and give it to them the way they want. You're just showing them a bigger meal. Plus, you get a lot of followers and swimbaits. That can show where they are and try to catch them with a follow up bait or come back later that day. I always start the morning off with swimbaits. You gotta use 'em now a days!

[MIKE TREMONT]

Didn't Ray Scott try to organize some events where you couldn't use more than 4lb test? I know some rods/reel came out around 8 years ago with his name on them for this reason.

I kind of like that idea more than excluding swimbaits only. Where would you draw the line, they got some tiny swimbaits now a days. If I swim a grub or jig, would I be cheating?

It seems as if the tourney orgs are trying to level the playing field without having off limits times and a whole bunch of other restrictions that would scare people away.

I believe these other events which limit you to one brand/kind of baits are geared more to sales. Nothing wrong with that, it does the same thing. I look forward to the Snag Proof every year.

Someone is always going to rise the top, no matter how you tie their hands, and it's usually the guys that have the time and resources to get out and stay out on the water the most.

[Brian Ruthman]

Sounds like a good idea , i know of alot of people who would like to see that .
The tournament they had at the Delta awhile back was an interesting concept , they gave everyone a bag of lures that were all the same the morning of the event and everyone had the same stuff to catch their fish with , that seemed cool .
I know some guys have given up on fishing because of swimbaits they dont feel like throwing them and dont feel like they can compete if they dont so they just quit . Some guys have even told me that swimbaits have ruined tournamnet fishing , i like them because i have done well using them . But i still mix it up with Jigs , Dropshot , ect. what ever i feel is the most efficient way of catching the largest fish .

[Tin Can]

People actually quit fishing over swimbaits becoming popular? That is just crazy.

[sTony]

Guys,

Dan figured he'd get some of these responses. As long as it doesn't get to personal I'm sure he can handle the critics.

But break it down to the bare bones and answer his question if you can, would you fish in a tournament that didn't allow swimbaits? Is that of any interest to you at all? Maybe he'll get one together for Clear Lake for those that like the notion.

Thanks Dan,

sTony

[Caudawg]

Dan: My God! I think you are on to something! LOL! The way my shoulders have been, I am all for this new concept!

[sTony]

People actually quit fishing over swimbaits becoming popular? That is just crazy.

I think there might be some who can't get the knack of catching 'em up on swimbaits who might very well be worn down by getting beat by them time and again. Not sure they'd quit fishing but might pass on tournaments. That might not be so crazy a notion.

sTony

[Tin Can]

Are swimbaits really dominating tounaments? I just don't see swimbait fishing being consistant enough to really dominate like that. Then again, I'm not a tourney guy or a good swimbait guy.

[sTony]

THey have their moments to be sure. You can't win every tournament just throwing them but they can be tough to beat when that bite is going for those that are good with them. When the bite is on and you can't take advantage it's a tough deal.


sTony

[sTony]

One thing I'd add as advice to anyone struggling with any bait. Get out there with guys you know that do have a mastery of your weaker baits. It accelerates the learning curve dramatically.

If you're struggling with these baits and you live in say the motherlode booking a trip with a guide like Bub Tosh or Johnny C can help your understanding of the bait a lot.

Same goes on every pond out there. Talk it up with the guys that are wiping it up on you and you might be surprised by what they'll share with you and maybe even work out a day in the boat.

sTony

[Sacto John]

THey have their moments to be sure. You can't win every tournament just throwing them but they can be tough to beat when that bite is going for those that are good with them. When the bite is on and you can't take advantage it's a tough deal.


sTony

But can't that be said about any lure specific bite? I think more guys will catch fish when the jig bite is one only because more guys know how to fish a jig effectively. I feel the playing field will start to level as more guys figure out swimbaits, it is already starting to happen.

[mr.bass91]

Tin Can Wrote
Are swimbaits really dominating tounaments? I just don't see swimbait fishing being consistant enough to really dominate like that. Then again, I'm not a tourney guy or a good swimbait guy.

Its really relative to the waters you fish and the time of year. This time of year on the motherlode lakes if you are not throwing a swimbait you stand a good chance of being beat by someone who is. I think the delta and clear lake are totally different because they both have so many big fish and those big fish are for the most part always shallow (under 25 feet). I think that the reason many people including myself have a hard time catching fish on swimbaits is because the fish we are trying to catch are difficult to pattern. Just because you are catching 12 inch fish in 40 foot of water drop shoting does not mean big swimbait fish will be that deep as well. To catch big fish you have to think outside the box and not be afraid to defy what we perceive to be logical thinking. As always follow the food.....

[R.Cook]

Jig only tourney? If you're interested pm me and maybe I'll try and set something up....

[Grape Ape]

How about a live worm and bobbers only tourney? Wouldn't that be hillarious?!!! Anglers out there in their $60k boats and electronics using worms and bobbers. LOL I think Jim Moulton had another great idea.........everyone must use those plastic $10 poles and reels! Now that would be interesting and fun.

[Jason C.]

I got one better!! Snoopy Pole only with your choice of live night crawlers or the Powerbait that comes in a Jar, or salmon eggs. Bobbers optional! That would be a BLAST!!! One rod and reel per person!

[philip garcia]

there are alot of things on this thread that get me thinking. Why would you not want to learn a new technique that really helps you in tournaments and make you a little more money. I am a swimbait guy and feel that I am pretty good with them but I do not throw the big ones. At least not in tournaments. I have found that the basstrix and baitsmiths are the true tournament swimbaits. If your back is to bad to throw a basstrix than maybe you should just fun fish. I don't mean that in a bad way. I just mean you can't have real expectations of competing if your body is in that kind of shape. On the other hand look at Dee Thomas nobody can tell me he's whooping your butt with a hudd. I feel that the best lure in this game is knowledge the more you get the better you are. When you stop thirsting for it you will never get any better.

[ash]

Didn't Ray Scott try to organize some events where you couldn't use more than 4lb test? I know some rods/reel came out around 8 years ago with his name on them for this reason.

I think the 4lb tst only tournament would be a hoot! I use to fish with a light rod and 4lb in a local pond in SoCal cought fish up to 7lbs with it on a senko and spinnerbaits (1/4oz blade) definatly teaches you how to hold off on the hook set, lead fish and back reel!

I also liked the brown bag concept = playing field. But a NO Swimbait tournament is like telling an awesome line backer that he has to tackle with one arm cause he is just too powerful. These are not magic bullets.

[Phil]

Dan, lets us know if you need help, sounds good to us...Maybe that is what we should have done for the Fall Classic here at Don Pedro, maybe then we would have had some interest. As it was, we had maybe one team that had any interest in fishing it..

Thank you

Jigs

[492slayer]

To give a different perspective to this thread... I've been fishing selectively for bass for the past 26 years. I can still remember the first jig I ever tied on my rod in 1982. My thought when my fishing partner told me to tie it on was "What the F@^# is this going to catch" well about 20 bass to 6lbs that day convinced me that a jig and pig was a combo that you couldn't do without. I mean if you wanted to stick fish, you threw a jig. Funny thing about it was I swam those jigs all the time back then, and then you read about some "new" technique guys have come out with of "swimming jigs". Like some of the guys here say, you've got to think outside the box. We played with "striper baits" for bass 20+ years ago, but didn't have the success today's swim baits do, but occasionally we would stick a nice fish. Most of those were in ponds in our belly boats back then. I've got a couple hundred dollars worth of swim baits, more than half have never been wet, but you've got to throw em when you can. Think of it this way... Do you buy a lottery ticket to get three numbers or are you trying for the whole enchilada?

[biteme]

This thread should be closed No really, bring what ya got! Big baits dont always work. If you think that big bait guys have a advantage then learn em. Thats the best part about fishing you can learn new stuff all the time. I think trhe reason why there is big bait tournaments is because its hard to get that big bite. If everyone is doing it then it evens things out.

[492slayer]

Biteme... I have a few crawdad patterns that I tie (flyfishing) on small 1/0 or 2/0; 1/8 or 3/16oz dartheads that I have killed the big fish on over the years. I used to throw them a lot on incoming water at Oroville and other lakes on 4-6lb line. I caught my first 10# largemouth out of Oroville that way back in '94. I don't throw them often, but if I have a few in my box, they can be deadly when other baits aren't producing. I think a lot of success comes from getting away from baits that fish get accustomed to seeing. That is not to say that you won't always catch something on the same senko or worm. Try this for a change of pace... take a few lures that have been sitting around in your boxes for 10 or 25 years and tie one on. Chances are if you used to hammer fish on them years ago, they will probably catch fish today. This isn't to say they will out produce what's working today, but it can make for a great day when a toad blows up on a tiny torpedo or someother ancient bait.

[texas john]

I have my fair share of swimbaits, but more often that not im throwing a jig or something texas rigged. I have caught fish on swimbaits and know they work. If there was a tournament like this No Swimbaits, I might fish it, again I dont see the difference between it and a frog only or something along those lines. But hey we all have our own opinions.

[mac (Doyle McEwen)]

I have seen a few of the Federation events won by tossing swimbaits, I even managed to win one at Trinity doing just that..But far and away most are won using a combination of techniques..I am sort of like Phil Garcia in that I don't throw that many really large swimbaits, but I am certainly not against using them for those that care to..I still have a ton to learn on when and where they are most effective..But I am in the same situation with jigs and just about any other bait I have and use..There is no one bait that is always absolutely the best although there are some that you can always pretty much count on to get the job done..

mac

[sker13]

I have to learn to throw them better bottom line if I want to compete in the Motherload certain times of the year. However, lots of guys who "Swing for the fences" don't hit a homerun. It is about catching the bigest fish that day. I would fish a Jig only Tournament like R. Cook mentioned. But probably not a No-Swimbait T. I have got whooped by guys at McClure who fished all day for one bite. I was on solid fish but didn't know how (couldn't commit) to throw the big bait after having 10-12 lbs in the well. Yes it was frustrating but like Caudawg says "inovate or evaporate". If you can't beat em join em. Let the best man win. Blah Blah Blah. Swim baits catch the biggest bass in the lake and if thats not why we are there then I don't know anything about anything.

[bassindon69]

If I am not mistaken I still here guys say "You don't need to use those things to get the big ones" So what is the problem?
I don't get it?

If a guy wins using swimbaits he worked HARD for it. You know that.

I did 100% one year (two years ago) with a friend. I did not get to fish the way I wanted but still I just used swimbaits mostly. We cashed only one check all year LOL!! Also did one tourney with Robert M. and got big fish only. In fact Robert boated our only fish. That's aIl I have done for me with swimbaits and tourneys. So I really don't see the point. I have got some HUGE swimbait limits but not in a tourney (I don't do many tourneys)
My 32 and 37 lb limits in the night tourneys were not on swimbaits

It's one thing if you just want to have a fun tourney without swimbaits but to say that swimbaits are beating you...I hate to tell ya this but like I said they beat you because they know where the big ones are not because they are tossing swimbaits Swimbaits will ONLY catch big fish and big limits if you KNOW where they live or feed already. The point is they KNOW where the big ones live and feed period. If they get them to go , like any other time , they will win anyway even without swimbaits
Other then that if they just cast and wind swimbaits then you got beat by luck. That (luck) happens with any bait not just swimbaits

Without swimbaits I fish for bass. With big swimbaits I WORK for bass

Don.

PS. It could be a fun tourney though if you make it that way
Or it will be like any other.

[Darkman]

A good fisherman will beat you no matter what he or she uses...Mike Hart is just flat out sick...and he can sling em with the best...same goes for Mike Long..these two will beat you in a tourney no matter what they use...PERIOD

as far as a no swimbait Tourney goes...if you don't like it then don't it..see how easy that is.

guys fish what you like...and catch them how you like

[Kiss my Bass]

You guys are funny. If they get those fish to go on another bait they will still kick your butt
Then what? 4" worm tourney only
Who out there that uses swimbaits does not know how to flip or pitch? I don't know one.
Have fun!

Don.

Me.....but I'm a different breed! I have a friend that calls me bass akwards....lol!

[bpm2000]

my swimbait tech is much better than my flipping/pitching as well lol. i will definitely be working on it more this coming year however.

[CHUG BUG]

how would you define, and enforce the rules? i have been fishing for 30 yrs and have always used "swimbaits" i bought one of those cardboard thingys full of mr. twister sassy shad when i was a kid, and have been a believer since. many of these so called swimbaits are similar to crank baits, you'd have to ban those too. i would like to see a tourney with line size limits, and NO nets! i think it would make things interesting. horsing a fish back to the boat and flipping it up on the deck is not very sporting, and is harmful to the fish. the brown bag idea is great too! anything that is legal to throw in the water should be allowed.