Nor-Cal Pro/Am @ McLure?

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:24 pm

I'm thinking about fishing it next weekend. Anyone looking for a sign up partner? I can do either Pro or Am. Send me a PM if interested.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:22 pm

Well Harry, wish I had known, I signed up as a AM with Wes Remmers he is the Pro. Tim Paes told me that they will need Pros. Lots of Ams waiting for Pros.

Might ask Mansor, he may fish it as a Pro and need a Am to sign in with ???

Jigs

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:12 pm

Robert said he is not fishing it.

Just curious......Do you have any idea why their turnout has been dropping so much over the last few years? I can remember years ago this was one of the better tourney series to participate in. I didn't pay to much attention to it for a few reasons....one of them being a draw tourney.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:29 pm

Change of the times ?? To many other tournaments ?? Payback ?? Gosh, who knows. It could be like all the others. WON is down...AC is way down...ABA is down.........FPT is way up....I would look forwaard to 100% WRL to be way up this year ?? I noticed Nor Cal lowered their fee's wy down.....maybe that is what it willk take ???? Who knows..

Thanks

PS. I don't think you need to sign up with a am if you are fishing Pro..........but don't quote me, call them..

Jigs

WELDER DUDE · Post by **WELDER DUDE** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:28 pm

is there a link for this tour?? entry fees ,rules,etc

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:55 am

www.nor-calbass.com

I think they are one of the best kepted secrets. Unfortunatly, they are a best kepted secret. They are a non-profit org. I do not think anyone on the staff is paid. The payback is good. Take a look at last years results with the low turn-out, the winner took home an the average of $1000 +/-. They pay 80% back, and the 20% kepted, is paid back at the TOC. A one day pro/am shared weight format. And this year, the entry fee has been lowered on the pro and am side. Two circuits, Motherload region and a Delta region. I mainly fish the Delta, but I will be there this Saturday. Great circuit for the working man or indivuduals who do not have a lot of time.

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:36 am

the reason alot of the "local" guys don't fish it anymore is when the turnout started getting low, they couldn't see taking a non boater to there water, show em there tricks, and come back the next week or so and see that same partner pounding there spot...
alot of guys i talked to said it wasn't worth spending the $$$$ to take someone else out, and not win much$$$$....as for the turnouts in general....the problem...... "SEMI" or "ROOKIE" leagues

i know guys who got "me" into fishin tourneys over "20" years ago, and they r fishin these so called "begginner circuits..ha ha what a joke....everyone says they want to see it like the old days, 100 team field...won't happen...the guys throwin these "begginner" events are "begging" people to fish them..it has actually got to the point where they are telling almost everyone they quyalify to fish ther "begginner tour".....that is whats killing the draw...guys may not agree w/me on this one, this "IS" the way it is...........................

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:19 am

clarify please ? You are saying a guide, which seems to be all Pros; should not take client to his water to catch fish, because next week that amature will be there on his water. (Please clarify his water to me)?
Let me understand what you are saying ? You do not think a person as myself should fish Org's like the WRL ?? Or Nor-Cal as a AM ?? I will agree with you that the WRL and the FPT, has taken .

When I fished Pro -Ams in the 90's, I had no problem showing my am how, where, etc etc to catch the fish. I agree that he/they may be there next week, next month, but is'nt that how we all learned.

You tel me you have never fished on Paynes water, Dobyns water, Thomas's water etc etc............Yes I am sure we all have. Now comes the real test, are you good enough to fish the water, did he/they teach you all the tricks ?

Good foof for thought ??

Thanks

Jigs

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:39 am

RMANZO ,
I couldnt agree with you more .

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:48 am

I disagree with Robert, I'm going to spend my buck were I get the most out of it.The FPT is it.You can call it what you may, but he runs the best circutt hands down and thats why I fish his circutt.I fished AC,Nor Cal as a A.M, Mid Cal, and none in my opinion hold up to FPT.

eddremax · Post by **eddremax** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:23 am

As a good friend Mark I have to disagree with you. You only get better when you fish against the big boys. I do agree with manzo that theres alot of good sticks that I give a bad time for fishing those rookie teams(like the plummer) Hah.

I was wondering if theres not a way to join rookie and pro teams together in one tourney. Rookies pay less fees and fish for those funds , pros for theres but the options go into 1 pot and is split down the line.
Ed

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:14 pm

Ha Ed- How is Pedro? I didn't say anything about the competion, it's what I feel runs the best circutt bar none.Tried the rest, Besides Danny Peluso (AC) no one in my opinion cares or puts the effort out like the FPT. Plus the competion is real strong, they are good sticks. Just my opinion Ed, take it for what its worth.

Joe Bruce · Post by **Joe Bruce** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:37 pm

Mark didn't you win a boat ? how can you still be eligible ?

there's no doubt in my mind, the future geek circuits are killing regular team events.

in any sport you get better by competing against better opponents.

thanks again Bob!

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:55 pm

Joe, correct me if I am wrong here, but don't the fishermen compete against the fish. What difference does it make who I am fishing against? I still am fishing for the same fish in the same body of water. The costs to enter a tournament factor into many competitors' minds and most of the pro team events have become cost prohibitive especially based on return. There have been many posts regarding payouts so I won't get into that. The FPT puts about 100 +/- boats on the water per tourney, most team circuits put 30-40. The field sizes provide enough competition between competitors and if we win the payback is better because there are more boats (based purely on dollars on the check). The amateur orgs have found a niche and not all of them draw the same. I feel the pro team orgs need to rethink their strategies. Too many one body of water "regions", or two bodies of water. That is what is ruining the pro team events, not the FPT and WRL. It also allows for "pros" that couldn't catch squat out of their own zip code. I prefer the more well rounded approach offered by the FPT with a circuit that covers the whole northern state. Maybe the pro teams should consider it.

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:10 pm

That is correct Joe, My dad and I did win a boat at the Ac Semi pro Classic. That is why we don't fish AC Semi any more. Thought that we would not be adle to fish the FPT either, FPt rules are 2 boats. FPT wants the classic winners to come back and defend there title.Alot of you guys are qulified to fis, join and fish and see what the hipe is about. at this years classic I counted 4 prevoius boat winners, Us, Antoine,King from AC Classic as a Am,Last years winner. The thing I don't understand is Robert said that people that fished 20 years are fishing FPT. So what. i played golf for 20 years, does that make me a pro golfer, or, I played baseball since tee ball, High school, senior league and now I help coach High School, does that make me a pro. No it doesn't. Just because Some have fished 15-20 years does not make them a Dobyns, KB, or Skeet.Even you Joe, You are a stud fisherman, out on the water probally 2-3 days a week. I can't take that much time off to keep up with you. I know Ed is out all the time.

That is were I choose to spend my buck. If we win another boat,win to much money or Vince kicks us out thats were I will be.Some day I will feel the need to compete against a Cooch,Bruce,Cole.ETC

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:16 pm

I agree with Crawdaddy also on the bodies of water. FPT is all over Northern and Central Valley with a variety of lakes. Makes a even playing field.Other cicutts are just Delta or Clear Lake. I like to fish the different lakes to expand my fishing.

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:56 pm

Boy did this get off track! LOL Geesh

Oh and don't even get me started about "Pro" fisherman! What a joke. It seems to me all you have to do to call yourself a "Pro" in this sport is own a boat and sign up. Amazes me after all my years of playing sports (football and baseball) and then a 10 year run in motocross I come to fishing competitively and the meaning of a "Pro" changes so drastically.

I entered this tourney as a "Pro" because I want to fish as a boater. That's it....nothing else. Does that mean my status has changed to "Pro"? Hardly.....hell I can't win a dang semi-pro tourney! Hmmmm semi-pro? Another misplay with the word "Pro". Kinda like "FUTURE PRO". We should all stop kidding ourselves and each other and just fish tourneys to have FUN!

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:59 pm

Agree Grape Ape. Its just fish'n.

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:33 pm

mark,,,,,my point was that guys i have been fishing against for over 20 years are still fishing these so called "semi pro" events...thay have been winning $$$$ for that long, but the directors are so hungry to get "all" the boats fishing there event, they aren't strict on the giudelines..."FOR A FACT"!!!!!!i tried doing a semi pro circuit last year for aba...i could have had 20-30 teams @ each event, but i know pretty much everyone around here, and alot of the guys who wanted to fish my so called "semi pro" were over qualified...and i was going off of qualifying guidelines from the other so called "semi pro" circuits.... everyone can go round and round and say what they want....the difference,,,"THESE R THE FACTS!!!!!

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:39 pm

Here's a good one for ya Robert.....How about one week fish in a pro teams tourney and then the very next week fish a semi-pro tourney for the same organization! ????????????? Now that still has me confused.

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:43 pm

ha ha ha.....thats the way it is harry...."THE GUIDELINES ARE B>S>"...................

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:27 pm

Hey Grape.
How did this thread go from you looking for a sign up partner to this ??? Holy smoke !!

Joe Bruce · Post by **Joe Bruce** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:33 pm

if you were only fishing against the fish a 5 lb limit would win every time.
since my girl was born 2/26/07 I'm lucky if I get 4 days a month. usually only tourney days. hardly enough time to do a big dollar pro am circuit.

some day if you get kicked out you'll see the other side of it.

crawdaddy if you think I cant catch squat pick a day and lake and bring a few hundred bucks

we'll see

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:49 pm

Joe,

I agree with you about the time constraints. But just understand that while you have little time to wander far from home and fish an event I am equally dis-inclined to come all the way up to the Motherlode. While you would sleep comfortably in your bed and fish spots you could find with your eyes close I would be sleeping in a cramped motel worried about my boat and gear and eating marginal food. All the while fishing lakes I have very little familiarity with against guys who fish them often. I noticed you offered to fish any "lake", if that offer includes a tidal body of water let me know where you would like to launch from. [/quote]

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:21 pm

come on joe...heres our chance....crawdaddy, you name the launch on u'r "tidal water" and if its a team thing joe and i will be there...bring on the tide

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:38 pm

Wow! I would love to referee that! Do it Joe!

I have no clue Jigs......strange.

Jim Moulton · Post by **Jim Moulton** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:40 pm

Manzor see what you started. All I can say is its a good think your a good cook!!!!
Honestly its about having fun and most of the circuts around here have a good bunch of pepole. Heck I can't think of one I don't enjoy fishing. Since were talking about Nor-Cal I'll say it is a little frustrating when your am burns up your water a few weeks later but instead of whinning about it I say it's time to find new water. Besides as our lake levels fluctuate so much in the mother lode region your water changes all the time anyway. I'm in this saturday so manzor come and take my money!!!!!!!!! Jim

Joe Bruce · Post by **Joe Bruce** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:30 pm

crawdad its not people who have to drive that are making the difference. its the locals, I think the motherlode has 3 different geek circuits almost everyone I know is fishing them, guys who used to fish the regular stuff. there good guys as I'm sure you are, but when there's no more regular team events left what happens. do we graduate and become trophy hunters or leave our jobs and families to fish the pro Am's. cherry pick and don't win to much so we have something to fish ?

All I know is everything was cool, it was the best guys on any given day wins.

Russo's

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:34 pm

why don't you guys settle in on Camanche, I doubt anybody has advantage there, I'll hold the money..............

Joe Bruce · Post by **Joe Bruce** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:46 pm

I opened my mouth jigs, Id rather any other place on the planet but if its the river Im in. maybe a t shoot with me and crawdaddy having a side pot. I think I could even make it this sun as I here theres an event allready planed.

RMANZO · Post by **RMANZO** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:12 pm

if u'r free on sun joe, come out and fish my poe mans

it would b good to see ya......

RMARX · Post by **RMARX** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:12 am

HOLY COW! I just spent twenty minutes writing a reply to this one and deleted it because it would hurt the futre pro teams feelings

Nor-Cal - Is a good circuit you just give up too much if your a team angler, the people that run it are all top notch.

Future Pro, Semi Pro, Womens League (as my team partner calls it) has taken the numbers at all of the local events and split them 70/30 - My opinion they need to go...

Yes this is the nice version of my post...

Happy New Year!

Robert

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:34 am

You deleted it cause you probally have nothing worth a dam to say. Maybe your Poe Mans circutt would draw more like the Womans Leaugue, you like to call it,if you put half the effort into it as the(Womans League) does.

RMARX · Post by **RMARX** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:34 am

Sorry Mark - I should have signed my last name. All things aside these circuits look good on paper but the only one they help is a few sand baggers and the organizations that put them on! Lower the cost of the entry fee, raise the options have one circuit and only spend as much as you want to have a chance to win. Eliminate all of the "rookie" circuits, they are all B.S.!!

Robert Marxmiller-not-Manzor

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:36 am

Im happy to say that im among the few that have been graduated to the next level from the FPT by Vince not exactly the way i wanted it but the way i got it ...........LOL !!

Hey everyone is starting to realize that the FPT with their high money limit is just a way to steal the anglers away from the regular team events . If it had genuine intentions of moving teams on to the next level , they would lower their yearly money earning limit down to $2000 bucks or all rookie leagues set a fixed yearly winning number , also make it if your able to win a FPT event during the year then your done for the next year so you move on .The whole defending your title thing is a joke and im not buying into that line of crap ! Give me a list of teams that have moved on from the FPT ? I know of several teams Anglers Choice and the WRL have moved on . Mansor is calling it the way it is , and he isnt trying to hurt anyones feelings it is just the way the FPT is run . Heck i know in WRL it is more of a genuine Rookie league , and several guys have tried to fish it and the director of it told them no way .
The whole FPT deal is to try and make guys feel like they have an edge with winning , by excluding 25% of the guys that are worth a crap , is their really any glory in winning one of their events when you know your not really competing against the best local guys ?
As far as learning goes that is what the local bass clubs are for , has everyone forgot about them ? You learn way more at your monthly meetings when you have them after a local friendly get togeather on a lake , some clubs have the best guys that will help you out . There is not much to learn in the FPT , go catch 5 fish make sure they measure to length , and weight them in when your flight is due in .

Winning weight is winning weight no matter what event your fishing , I won the FPT at Don Pedro the first year they had it and after that i won the 100% the next year same lake only difference was i took home over $4,000 for first place and way more pride of winning , should have won over $6,000 but i didnt get into the 50 option because i didnt have any confidence that day on winning , imagine that me not having some confidence to beat Marxmiller , and Joe Bruce that day , everyone has the same feelings and you have to put them to the side and do your best . Most of all winning is just something in your mind , you cant lower yourself down to the level of these lesser leagues and ever expect to be a tru-champion , it isnt going to happen .
I dont care who shows up when it is your day and time to win you go out and do it , its all in your mind that you cant beat teams , when i fish i go catch the best 5 fish i can , weight them in and see what happens beat the fish first .
The same year i fished the 100% Pro team / WRL TOC at New Melones , and I got it handed to me by a bunch of the WRL rookie teams that fished that event , so it is my opinion the whole Rookie , Semi-Pro , Future Pro or whatever you want to call it is a joke of a concept . I dont blame Bob one bit for shutting down his 100% Pro team events , when the WRL is drawing the numbers why beat yourself up over it , it was a business decision .Sponsors want to see numbers and as a director they have to go to where the numbers are , heck Nor-Cal Bass if they could draw the numbers of boats they could get a boat to give away at their TOC .
There you have it from someone that has fished both sides of it , like it or not .

It would be nice if all of us guys that like to fish could some how pull togeather as a group so we can have events that are worth it to show up and fish , i know im just as frustrated as the rest of you that like to team fish .

I hope some of you find something good in what i have said and hope you have a great 2009 season in whatever you decide to fish .

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:04 pm

Brian, Brian,Brian,
You have your opinions and I have mine. I won't argue with you, since we have done that several times. I just won't agree with you.
I can give you a list of people that have gradutated to the next level. There has been a lot. Like I said before, I will move up someday soon to. (Maybe when the FPT gets a pro team)

No one is, as you call it stealing anglers. The Anglers are just smart and are going over to the best run tournament. That is a fact, as # show that to be true.

Get rid of 25% of the guys that are worth a crap is a bold statement. So you say that the Rookie Teams and FPT are crap fisherman. I will leave that alone, were not all Brian Ruthman's, That is why we fish the FPT and Rookie Teams, or Semi Pro.

the last thing is other circutts don't put the work in that the FPT does. Again it is my opion.I understand Brian that we have different opinions on Circutts, I'm just giving a opinion. I'm not debating with you, just giving a opinion.

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:06 pm

Don't fly off the deep end on me Brian, some day I would like to take you fishing and teach you how to catch the little green fish.

Happy New Year.......

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:40 pm

Mark ,
Im not going to get pissed im going to get even ........LOL

, i know you like the FPT and that is ok with me .
If you read down a little further i said the WRL 100% rookie teams kicked my rear and most of other Pro team fisherman too , just check out the results when the Rookie teams fished and weighed in against the Pro teams , we were all fishing for the same grand prize a boat at the TOC that year . Each circuit had their their own prize money though .
I also said the whole concept of Semi-Pro , Rookie , Fpt or whatever you want to call it is a joke , i wasnt just picking any one circuit .
Heck i fished the Stren the other year as a Co-Angler and one of my Pro's said he is fishing alot better , now when he feels the bite he sets the hook ! I asked him if he said he really felt like he should be in the front of the boat and he said no , he just likes rubbing elbows with the big named guys that fish the circuit , it was just a vacation and good time he didnt care where he finished .
Hey im not saying Vince doesnt put on a good show you can win a 99 cent pack of worms at his tourney raffle and when you walk away he has hyped it up so much you feel like you just won the Bassmasters classic .

RMARX · Post by **RMARX** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:52 pm

I would like to take you fishing and teach you how to catch the little green fish.

I am pretty sure he is interested in the big ones!

Mark Pollard · Post by **Mark Pollard** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:57 pm

It does'nt matter Robert, he does'nt catch either little ones or big ones.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:54 pm

You guys be nice to Brian now. I dont want to have to jump in this thread............

Grape Ape · Post by **Grape Ape** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:13 pm

Oh let me tell everyone....I found a partner and presigned yesterday! Ok go back to whatever it is you guys are "debating".

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:46 pm

OK Joe let me know when you want to take my cash! We could do a t-shoot with our wager on the side, make it fun all the way around. The river is 45, cold and murky one or two bites could win it! PM me. Scott