What happenend to the tract?

riverguy225 · Post by **riverguy225** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:08 pm

What happened to franks tract? I told friends of mine a few years ago that spraying those weeds was not such a good idea.. sure we caught them better when they had mostly tulles to relate to but those fish need those weeds. It was great catching 25-30lbs in June/Aug/July but I think it took its toll.

More so, these live bait fisherman are doing thier part. We all should be a little more vocal with these folks and we all know who they are, we see em and shake our heads. These guys wil catch five, run them back to the Nissan truck, and head right back out. I don't care how PC it is I don't care for it and it ain't right.

What do you guys think is the cause of these dwindling numbers. Spraying, Livebait meat fishermen, Pumping to LA??? Whats going on?

bustout · Post by **bustout** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:16 pm

Not from meat harvesters....
Not from spraying.....

My opinion is too much fishing pressure. tourney's are now a year round thing and more boats introduced to waterways each year greater than the amount that are removed from the water (blown engine, sell boat, etc.)

I was fishing the north franks flats last weekend and saw 11 boats all stretched out over 1/4 mile of tules...

Also, the spawn seems to be later than in years past...many people struggled this spring up until about 2 weeks ago

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:36 pm

It's also not just in the Delta but everywhere I've fished lately. My personal experience may just be I stink, but it seems from reading here on the web and talking with guys out on the water, most are having a tough time.

I'm not a live bait or meat fisherman. I'm pretty sure some of the folks you're talking about camped out intercepting all those released fish ain't helping. If they're talking five, not a whole lot to beach about, but if they're breaking the law, then we should do what we can.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:41 pm

bustout wrote:Not from meat harvesters....
Not from spraying.....

My opinion is too much fishing pressure. tourney's are now a year round thing and more boats introduced to waterways each year greater than the amount that are removed from the water (blown engine, sell boat, etc.)

I was fishing the north franks flats last weekend and saw 11 boats all stretched out over 1/4 mile of tules...

Also, the spawn seems to be later than in years past...many people struggled this spring up until about 2 weeks ago

Not even close. It IS from the meat fishermen, It IS from them killing the weeds, It IS from the Sea Lions raping the bass now that they have no weeds to hide in. There is something else going on out there this year though. It aint just Franks. I have had a lot of spots that I have caught them at every year for the last 15 years that have gone dead and I dont think Dee is dumping old battries or dumping bleach on them..........

Wolfeman · Post by **Wolfeman** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:07 pm

If the sea lions can catch all the bass they can eat why aren't there several hundred sea lions in Frank's all the time?
Just curious?
- Wolfeman

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:30 pm

I can't say that sealions do not eat bass, but 9 out of ten times I have seen them eating fish, it was a catfish..Something tells me they are a whole lot easier for them to catch, except perhaps during the spawn..

mac

jemoon27 · Post by **jemoon27** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:34 pm

WAY TOO MANY TOURNAMENTS. The way not only tournament fisherman treat the fish but also many inexperienced anglers, has a great affect. The other is climate changes, no not "Global Warming". Just later spawns, different weather, polllution, overfishing, tournament fisherman, noise pollution (loud boats and rap stereo system boats). These are all reasons salmon populations are declining as well. We need to be careful as fisherman on how we treat the fish and the amount of pollution we cause. There NEEDS to be regulation on how many boats a tournament is allowed on the water at a time, or something of this extent. This is not advice just for the delta, but especially clear lake and other impacted fisheries.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:40 pm

There NEEDS to be regulation on how many boats a tournament is allowed on the water at a time, or something of this extent. This is not advice just for the delta, but especially clear lake and other impacted fisheries.

Eaaaaasssssssyyyyyy there buddy. While it is to our benefit to improve fish handling/impacting the environment/pollution etc etc, "regulating" fishing any further is not the answer, jemoon, and ought to not even be a thought in our minds, as bass fisherman. Lawmakers have no problem "regulating fishing", just ask the California salmon fisherman. Yes we all need to be mindful, but be careful throwing that R word out there, some may not take it so well.

Andy

Dewayne · Post by **Dewayne** » Tue May 19, 2009 3:54 pm

Sorry, but I don't think tournaments are the cause. The decline of Franks (and the Delta in general) has been too rapid to have been caused by tournament pressure. I am also seeing fewer blue gills and red ears this year than in years past. It is much more likely a colapse in the food chain. Years ago when Franks was real good you could hardly stand the gnats. They are one of the links in the food chain. With the decline in weeds we have also seen a decline in smelt, gnats, and I imagine other aquatic insects/plankton. This has probably hurt bait fish populations leading to higher forage on the more exposed bass fry. Add a bunch of factors like these up and we have a fishery that is going through a down cycle. It will return, but in the mean time we better get used to some tough days.

DaHawg · Post by **DaHawg** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:12 pm

A little off topic but in general there are also far too many tournaments held right out of Russo's. The start point (Russo's) is fine however the fish need to be spread out when released and not just dumped right back at Franks. Maybe some Orgs. do make an attempt at spreading the release and I am off base, if so my apologies up front. This should result in greater concentrations of fish there in Franks however without the cover, they are open to the Sea Lions and Otters. Another top name Pro I was speaking with also had a great deal of concern about a disease spreading as has been seen in some lakes. With all of these fish being dumped in the same location week after week it could have a huge impact on the fish poulation for this area of the Delta. I have not seen a ton of floaters or sickly looking fish in the area, but it could happen in the future. Food for thought anyways.

-DaHawg

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:30 pm

Dewayne, you have a good point with the gnats. I remember at the '03 or '04 BASS Western Open I drew a gentleman on day one who said to me "I hope you brought a mosquito net with you". Well sat out in the middle of Franks all day, and I ended up cutting up my undershirt with tiny little slits for my eyes in order to just survive out there. Before I cut my shirt up for protection it was the worst fishing experience of my life. Absolutely unbearable. I've only been to Franks a couple times this year, and its almost like night and day...definitely no need for a mosquito net....

Andy

whazup · Post by **whazup** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:42 pm

Could it be........at the risk of unpardonable heresy......that the Delta is over-rated? Watching the tournament weights posted here on WB it seems to me the bags are getting smaller. Even some of the top sticks look to be struggling some. Just my perception....

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:46 pm

None of the Above! HAR! HAR! HAR!

Cyclic changing conditions. The fish are there, just not where yer looking for em! We've got clear water and a lot more grass than the past two years. The bass are just out smarting you all this year! Most guys are spoiled with that easy Frank's tract bite here.

I've been saying fer years, git out of yer boxes, stop fishing last years bite and explore this great place, you'll be suprised what ya stumble on now and then when ya do!

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:17 pm

I for one am glad that the fish factory is not pumping out easy 25-30 pound limits. It is like the Break was when all the derbies went out of there.

You might actaully have to learn the Delta the way I did by putting in your time one the water and exploring new areas.

The Delta is still full of big fish.

I am with Cooch with this one.

RichThiel · Post by **RichThiel** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:53 pm

Too all of the Delta Fisherman,

The Delta Conditions hasn't changed too the worse. This year with the lack of runoff because of the Northern Dams holding back water. The delta as a whole has cleared up big time, way earlier than normal. Thus, the grass has gott'en thicker quicker, combination of late spawn, and the fact that fish move around (because of current and their food sourse).

Their there and there is know decline of Population of bass as a whole. You just have too think outside of the box and change techniques that you used last yr.

I agree totally with Cooch has he agrees with me on issue's of approach. Get off the bank and fish 5-6ft to 9-11ft. Has in the last couple of days, I've seen areas that the fish were spawn'in on and know have left (Done Spawn'in). Blue Gill are know showing and soon if not later they'll be on the bank.

Think Breaks and Ledges with Flats nearby and you will boost your weights. Current is another option if you pay attention too it.

Rich

set'em good · Post by **set'em good** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:33 pm

I really think it would help if we had a mandatory catch and release of the spawning months such as Mar-May to protect the future fisheries. Take the weight a picture and release it were you caught it. This will give them the ability to do what nature intended them to do, reproduce and protect there fry. This would also eliminate allot of the big brood stock being caught and put on the BBQ, when they are at there easiest to catch as well.

I know people don't like it but people don't like catching less and less fish year after year as well..

Set'Em Good

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:43 pm

Cooch wrote:None of the Above! HAR! HAR! HAR!

Cyclic changing conditions. The fish are there, just not where yer looking for em! We've got clear water and a lot more grass than the past two years. The bass are just out smarting you all this year! Most guys are spoiled with that easy Frank's tract bite here.

I've been saying fer years, git out of yer boxes, stop fishing last years bite and explore this great place, you'll be suprised what ya stumble on now and then when ya do!

NO COMMENT!

riverguy225 · Post by **riverguy225** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:49 pm

You know, I understand the guides defending the place, I would too if I made a living on the water. Im not saying that there are not good fish to be caught because there are. I don't want to hear it from guys who fish this place when their tounrament brings them here or that fish here when it is convienent.
Look at what Mike Andrews said... this, for example is NOT the previous mentioned angler. Its not a matter of me or anyone else who knows the freakin score out here just not covering water, or not fishing the right stuff. Franks, Big Break and other areas are suffering. I just am trying to figure it out. I don't care if it is legal, dare I say, one way or another we need to lean on the "sushi "boys. I might be opening myself up to a beating here but Ill tell you all right now I have told those guys to their face what I think of them. I am not a blow hard but some things are worth defending.

duckhuntr07 · Post by **duckhuntr07** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:16 pm

I'm in!!! DOWN WITH THE LIVE BAIT MEAT FISHERMAN!!

Get yer pitchforks boys.......we'll save them bass!!

I do agree that catching fish and taking them to whatever dock yer weighin in at and then releasing them there has to have some effect.

riverguy225 · Post by **riverguy225** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:28 pm

I guess you guys are right I give up... take it easy.

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:19 pm

riverguy225 wrote:I don't care if it is legal, dare I say, one way or another we need to lean on the "sushi "boys.

I don't get it--what do the Japanese have to do with any perceived decline in the Delta's bass fishery?

I'm not aware of anyone harvesting bass for sushi. Stripers are sometimes used for sashimi ("suzuki") but not black bass...

RichThiel · Post by **RichThiel** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:07 pm

Its not so much the Modern Asians of today, its the vietnamese out of the San Jose area, SF, Stockton, and some rural area's of the Bay Area.

Being Im here at Russo's 24/7, I see them launch and see them come in at dark...I take their CF Numbers and Truck/Car license and Phone it in too a DFG that is work'in this area....The DFG knows who they are and where they live.

So far, I've BAG'ed 4...and the DFG has baged way more that I nor you know of.

For Cooch and I or Bobby protecting ourselves because we are making a living Guiding...WRONG. We do it because we Love it and are willing to help others enjoy the SPORT of catching bass, (in some insistance "A PIG of a LIFETIME}. I have no other comment.

Rich Thiel

Joe Bruce · Post by **Joe Bruce** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:41 am

why is it that as soon as some people have a hard time they blame it on things they have no idea about and even go as far as wanting to ruin it for every one else.

biteme · Post by **biteme** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:44 am

Blame it on the rain

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed May 20, 2009 12:40 pm

Cooch taught them all to hide from you guys.

Send water!
On second thought, keep it for yourselves.

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Wed May 20, 2009 3:39 pm

let me see if I get this right, you don't mind killing ducks to eat, but fishing for food your against?

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Wed May 20, 2009 4:04 pm

riverguy225 wrote:I have told those guys to their face what I think of them. I am not a blow hard but some things are worth defending.

And did the seals talk back? You only have to look one place to answer the question. Endangered Species Act.
I was in the Middle River/Victoria area today and there were two furbags tearing up the banks and leaving a trail of carnage. Not normal for a salt water mammal to be that many miles from the coast. Too many in their home waters mean they will take up residence where they can eat.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Wed May 20, 2009 4:22 pm

I often wonder if we did not have tournament fishing would we still have catch and release?

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Wed May 20, 2009 4:49 pm

The Delta has been good to me this year, but I don't fish Frank's.

Seems like the clear water of the last two years has caused greater than average weed growth. Frank's now has less available cover than most sloughs.

jimmy87 · Post by **jimmy87** » Wed May 20, 2009 8:01 pm

yeh we would still have catch and release. many trout fishermen, steelhead guys, striper fishermen and so on pratice catch and release.

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:07 pm

It is all my fault ...

I had that sudden urgent need to purge w/o a 10 minuet warning 3-4 weeks ago. ANd right on the tulie lines even !!

Thank gawd for a dual consel boat ~ with a hand rail built into it to hold onto - and an easy reach into the glove box from Triton Boats to access the TP !!

And remember people ~~ To ALWAYS wear you PFD's !! -- So you will not possibly be the only thing floating in the water - outside of a senko duce.

CATCHEMCARO · Post by **CATCHEMCARO** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:09 pm

It's all of the above. Remember the saying, "The Good Ol Days"? Well, these are the good ol days. Anglers are getting better at catching and there's more and more anglers every day getting hooked on the sport of bass fishing. There are still plenty of hogs out there, we just need to up our game a little to stay ahead of the fish. And if you know someone is leaving with a limit and coming back the same day you need to do your part and call DFG. That will stop some of the over harvesting. I see the change all the time. All the small lakes around my area seem to be hammered and there's always lots of float tubers and kickboaters. I have found that I just need to stay a step ahead of them if I wan't to catch toads.

Rich

joshuaryan · Post by **joshuaryan** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:16 pm

It's funny how there has to always be a scapegoat when something doesn't go your way. Quit crying and pointing your finger at someone else, and learn a different technique to catch fish. Waaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaa!!!

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu May 21, 2009 12:45 am

Robert F wrote:
riverguy225 wrote:You only have to look one place to answer the question. Endangered Species Act.
I was in the Middle River/Victoria area today and there were two furbags tearing up the banks and leaving a trail of carnage. Not normal for a salt water mammal to be that many miles from the coast. Too many in their home waters mean they will take up residence where they can eat.

Your kidding right? You suggest the ESA is responsible for causing too many of these animals. Which animals are you talking about anyway. To my knowledge none that are within the Delta system are protected under state or federal ESA laws. Get your facts straight. You may want to research the Marine Mammal Protection Act instead of showing your lack of knowledge and how easily you are influenced by sensationalism and others lacking knowledge.

Heres something to think about. Maybe the reason "salt water mammal" are being found outside of normal ranges is because of impacts to normal food sources caused by humans. And this is something all of us are responsible for. Look in the mirror and you will find who is responsible.

With that said, there is no way mammals have anything to do with significant decreases in bass populations. They can and may affect populations within small areas, but the affect is negligible at the population level. Does anybody here really believe the bass population has decreased to the point where we see decreased numbers in our angling catch? If you say yes you should take a long hard look at your angling skills. There are more bass in the Delta than any other system in this state, and more really big fish as well.

The problem is environmental conditions and the affect it has on bass behavior and location. As others have suggested, make adjustments, stop pounding old water with same techniques, and you will find the Delta is doing just fine.

BassManDan · Post by **BassManDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:26 am

Good call Steve,

Sure sea lions are eating bass or striper or whatever, and its because we (as a people) have hammered the salmon populations, drastically decreased the nearshore rockfish species and surely done countless other things to F-up the habitat and food web communities for marine mammals, but that's no reason to crucify the MMPA.

I just love the fact that everyone wants to blame it on one thing, theory is then, if we fix that problem, everything will be fine, BS!!!

There's this really new fangled concept called an "ecosystem", and there are alot of aspect to that that drive population increases and declines; sure sea lions have an impact, so do water quality/quantity issues, so does harvest, so does fishing pressure....(shall I continue).

Just a suggestion to all those folks who make these rash assumptions about what is going on; "YOU HAVE NO CLUE" until you look at the situation, assess all the apparent variables, quantify (relative to one another) just how much of an effect each variable is causing.....it's good old-fashioned science.

jemoon27 · Post by **jemoon27** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:14 am

I'm refreshing my response. There are just tons of fisherman, everywhere, and everyone wants to know where the hogs and all of the fish are. The fish are there! There's a lot more to the delta than throwing out a senko next to a dock or tulies. A LOT. I'm still learning a lot myself. This quote isn't directed at anyone in particular, but everyone... "Shut up and Fish"

L Dub · Post by **L Dub** » Thu May 21, 2009 12:28 pm

Any day on the water is better than a day at work! Unless you work back stage at a Victoria's secret fashion show...

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:55 pm

Dan McKenzie wrote:let me see if I get this right, you don't mind killing ducks to eat, but fishing for food your against?

I don't believe Dan that's his point at all, but over harvesting and selling them to the restruants, is definately illegal!!!!!!!!

The state should put in place a program where the fish farms must tag the fish they sell to restruants, then they start pounding the restruants that illegally purchase the fish that are being illegally caught and commercially sold. This will put an end to this illegal practice. But as long as state officials allow the restruant owners to not suffer and not have to pay a price, there's going to be an illegal black market on the harvesting of bass. And you had better believe, at the rate these guys take fish out of this River system, on a daily basis, its gonna have a far greater impact on this fishery, than any water issues we've seen in our lifetime.

riverguy225 · Post by **riverguy225** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:25 pm

thanks cooch, thats what I did mean.
B

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Fri May 22, 2009 6:46 am

Guys its not that hard to call DWF on the Meat guys. You are only allowed 5 on your PERSON. So follow them to the ramp and call DWF. They find 6 fish in the truck and its game over.

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:56 am

Cooch,
you have stated that many times, I don't believe it anymore than you don't believe water is the biggest factor. At least you'll be in a good spot to catch flounder and leopard sharks off your dock in the comming years

Tags

Notice