Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

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kopper_bass
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Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by kopper_bass »

I love how FLW posts their tourney results. They show pairings, weights, and all the data from a tournament. If you’re like me - a numbers junky - you can really start to look at the game from different perspectives and see how strategies develop thru the event.

For sure, the 3 day Stren events take on some unique dynamics that really dont get discussed much, but are interesting nonetheless to consider.

Day 1 is an all out free-for-all for both Pros and Ams. Both go out and try and catch their best fish and the chips lie where they do. Lots of Pros on this day fish hard, as do the Ams, and many cooperate as they have no idea where their efforts have gotten them.

Day 2 becomes a much more complicated scheme because there are guys on both sides of the boat that are obviously at the extremes "on top" or "out of it". So, you have plenty of guys who give way (Pros for Ams & Ams for Pros) for the guys on top, but there are also plenty of guys who are on the bubble and fish hard to come from far back to crack the Top 10. This dilemma makes for some interesting stats that get a little skewed because so many guys throw in the towel either on the Pro or Am side, i think.

Day 3 is a super challenge for both Pro & Am because you know everybody is in it with a chance to win, so there's no free passes and no 2nd chances. But, there's also a dilema - you don't want to come in as the Pro who didnt help your Am, catch fish and you dont want to be seen as the Am who rolled over and gave your Pro an advantage by not fishing hard. So, the strategy gets tougher at this level.

Some Stats from Day 1:
- Only 2 of the top 10 Pros at the end of Day 1 had an Am also made the top 10; 7 of the Ams with these Pros caught limits though.
- Only 4 of the Top 25 Pros had Ams that made the Top 10, yet 14 (56%) of the Ams caught limits.
- 7 of the top 10 Ams on Day 1 out fished their Pros; + 1 Am tied his Pro
- You have to go down to 50th place before an Am out fished the Pro on Day 1; 18th place was a tie.
- 35 Ams out fished their Pros on Day 1; with 77% coming below the top 100 Pros
- 113 Pros caught limits; 54 Ams caught a limit

Some Stats from Day 2:
- 6 of the Day 1 Pro Leaders made it to the Top 10; Same for the Ams – 6 total.
- Only 1 of the final Top 10 Pros had an Am that also finished in the Top 10.
- 4 of the Top 10 Pros had Ams that weighed 0 fish, 1 Am weighed 1 fish; only 1 Am weighed a limit of 5 fish.
- Only 2 of the Top 25 heaviest catches on the Pro side for day 2 had Ams that finished in the Top 10 and only 3 Ams (just 12%) caught a limit of 5 fish – wow!
- 6 of the final Top 10 Ams out fished their Pros on Day 2. 1 Pro weighed no fish, and 1 caught 2; all others caught a limit.
- You only have to go to 35th Pro heaviest place to get an Am that out fished the Pro.
- 32 Ams out fished their Pros on Day 2; 81% coming below the top 100 Pros.
- 112 Pros caught limits; 45 Ams caught a limit

Day 3 considerations:
- Pro Lead is 11-15 lbs (not insermountable, but a great lead given how the Delta has been fishing this week)
- Am Lead is 07 ounces to 9 lbs (its anyone's race here)
- Nobody will get a free pass at this stage; everybody will fish hard.
- Ams race is super tight, so it could come down to which Pro "helps" their Ams the most.

Some Observations I think from this:
- On Day 1, the top Pros really worked to get their Ams limits of fish, but on Day 2, the top Pros (heaviest weights) did not do the same, or was given a “free passâ€
Nobody remembers who came in 2nd place. Fish Hard - Play Hard!
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Ricky-S »

Hey Kopper,
As someone who just took an upper level quantitative stats class for my PhD I have to add that numbers will NEVER tell the true story. As a qualitative researcher, those numbers don't speak to the lost/missed fish, skill level, the changing conditions, the overall experience of actually being out on the water, and how tough the fishing was due to changing conditions (the wind blew hard both days and really bad on the 2nd day).

I know that my co on the second day lost/missed a lot of fish and should have had a limit. Even though he did not have a limit we had a blast on the water and great conversation. The fish were just biting really funny. The fishing was much tougher on day 2 and so were the conditions. I would also add the my second day partner was as good if not a better angler than my day 1 partner, but my day 1 guy had a limit and got a check.

I would also note that this was the second time that I fished with my day 1 partner on the Delta and he pretty much knew what my style of fishing would be.

These are just some of the things that don't surface by merely looking at the numbers.

With that said-very interesting and a job well done!
Last edited by Ricky-S on Sat May 30, 2009 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kb
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by kb »

Interesting data and every tournament those numbers will tell another story. I don't like the term "quit" or "throw in the towel" when referring to the anglers that "are out of it". At every tournament you hear of anglers that don't catch them on day one and somehow end up all over the guys that are at the top. You also hear of stories where anglers that are out of it make the choice to bow out of an area or spot that someone in contention is also on. That is exactly what I did for Ish and how I was "taught" to play the game by guys like Dee Thomas and Don Payne and the old school guys that didn't have a problem telling ya "You didn't catch them yesterday now get the hell out of here" but that is what you expected in return when you where catching them.

I was "out of it" in more ways than one this week. Stuck to my game plan and it stuck me.......I still can't find my damn frog but I have a feeling I know where the Delta put it. Had the chance at a big bite on day one and it didn't happen.....with that said my partner Bill and I went fishing on Friday and each had three fish on day one, we decided to just go fishing and let the day unfold. Bill had a limit and got a check.....way excited for him and I got a limit that was just for pain relief. Bill deserved that check and he never gave up all day. He fished with Mike Tuck on day one and Mike had a tough tournament as well.

Now here is where I think the day two numbers get changed, the am's on day one either develop a pattern that is working or they see a pattern that is working and vice versa where the pro's learn something from their co's and make the necessary changes after a night of beating your head against the side of your boat and make the adjustments.

I was the 3rd boat to weigh in my three fish on day one, I sat alone in my boat in my slip and made mayself watch every bag of fish go to the scales for 2 hours......it was not fun and yea I could have been out of there by 3 and hidden in a motel room under the a/c or under a pile of silver cans......

I like the analysis of the numbers and that is interesting info now you have to come up with how the top fifty caught them, gps way points, baits, colors, size and time of day along with what the tide was doing......

We go to the next one!!! It is what we do

kb
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Ricky-S
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Ricky-S »

Well said KB.

I would have done the same thing. Pay it forward and live to fight another day.

Some times you're the bug and some times you're the windshield.

I just love being able to do what I love to do. Win, lose or draw.
GKramer
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by GKramer »

KB: you radio personality, you. I think Hank Stram voiced your take back in the AFL days. The team in front makes no half-time adjustments, the team behind does--and sometimes catches up.

While there are all degrees of differences in presentation, no co-angler who ever picked up a rod can catch fish where there aren't any. (So, if the pro is not on at least some fish, nobody's going to get bit.) Unless the motor breaks the boat accidentally drifts by a few. :lol:

Wasn't it Doug Hannon who said tournament fishing is generally "low percentage fishing?" In other words, the more casts the pros make, the lower their percentage will be upon weighing 5 bass. KVD, then, would be very low percentage--and wouldn't we all like to be so statistically challenged?

Kopper, the stats are great, but the sampling is probably too small. I would like to see the same data over the four events to shape some conclusions. (But I don't expect you to dig it up.)

gk

www.kramergonefishing.com

BTW: Wednesday will be the unveiling of the very first "organic" artificial frog. There may be some interest.
Robert F
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Robert F »

kb wrote:You also hear of stories where anglers that are out of it make the choice to bow out of an area or spot that someone in contention is also on. That is exactly what I did for Ish
kb
Getting my helmet and pads on........OK ready.
IMO (that means MY opinion) it is not fair to give up a 7 pounder to another competitor during the tournament. ANY OTHER COMPETITOR not just a friend. I was not there so I am taking the liberty of assuming that this was done as a friendship thing and there was no mal intent but it leaves some questions in the conspirators mind. Was there "hole-sitting" involved? Doubtful as you drew out only 20 boats before Ish. Would you have done the same for another tournament leader if it was not your friend? How would you feel if you were Rob or Tommy and had a much better shot at winning the tournament without somebody relaying private info? Just thoughts to consider from the other side of the clique.
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by kb »

Hole sitting.........no since I didn't even go to that water until much later in the day. I started a mile and half from there. Giving the fish to Ish I think not since he caught it.....I just told him I got bit by a big one in that tree. I NEVER WENT TO THE AREA OR MADE A CAST THERE!!!!!!

As far as pulling off for someone else the answer is yes I would if they were in contention to win, make the cut or lead the event, I have done it. As far as a clique or only doing it for a friend for god sakes I have been doing this for 30 years do you know how many of those guys in the top 30 are my friends? I get to write Bub Tosh off on my taxes as a dependent, having dinner tonight with RJ, Got the invitation to Zack's wedding hanging on the fridge, I am a big fan of Little John Billheimer, I was rooming with Chris Raza......but I didn't pull out of or stay off of any of their spots because they were not in the lead..........get it?

In March at Clear Lake I was in the top 10 and on day two I still had to compete with other boats in a small canal.

Ish was culling 5 pounders and the fish he caught under the tree was between six and seven....he was leading by 11 pounds. He has a frog nobody else has, a new punching skirt by Bub Tosh's new bait company that nobody but Bub and he have.

Would I have pulled off for Rob Wenning...............YES as I said earlier that is how I was taught to play the game.....other guys I am sure would have thought nothing of going in to the small bay and fished ahead of the guy that was leading the tournament. I wouldn't and couldn't do that with an open mind.

Making the "hole sitting" claim is threading on pretty thin ice Robert as you are bordering in on calling me a cheater and not what I would take very lightly. This goes on in tournaments all the time. I knew Ish was in there, so was Mike Tuck and I had his co-angler with me on day two so if I went in there was I going back on Tuck's water......well the answer is NO because I also fished the area on day one but never saw Mike.

Don't think I ran over to Ish and said here is a spot and here is a fish and if the damn thing was that easy it would have been in my bag on day one with his three little and I mean little cousins. He caught it..........period.

My partner said he missed a big one with Tuck just a little bit away from there on day one.

No big deal but I will not let this thing get out of control with guys saying that I was "hole sitting" or bending the rules in a tournament. Not the way I play the game!!!!!!!

In 2002 I was chosen as the Western Bass Sportsman of the Year and joined a list of anglers that have won that award like Jim Lyon, Gary Dobyns, Gary Okasako, Jerry Tilton and few more. It is one of the most valued accomplishments in nearly 30 years of tournament fishing since it came form the anglers I fish against.

kb
Last edited by kb on Sat May 30, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Guest »

kb wrote:Interesting data and every tournament those numbers will tell another story. I don't like the term "quit" or "throw in the towel" when referring to the anglers that "are out of it". At every tournament you hear of anglers that don't catch them on day one and somehow end up all over the guys that are at the top. You also hear of stories where anglers that are out of it make the choice to bow out of an area or spot that someone in contention is also on. That is exactly what I did for Ish and how I was "taught" to play the game by guys like Dee Thomas and Don Payne and the old school guys that didn't have a problem telling ya "You didn't catch them yesterday now get the hell out of here" but that is what you expected in return when you where catching them.

I was "out of it" in more ways than one this week. Stuck to my game plan and it stuck me.......I still can't find my damn frog but I have a feeling I know where the Delta put it. Had the chance at a big bite on day one and it didn't happen.....with that said my partner Bill and I went fishing on Friday and each had three fish on day one, we decided to just go fishing and let the day unfold. Bill had a limit and got a check.....way excited for him and I got a limit that was just for pain relief. Bill deserved that check and he never gave up all day. He fished with Mike Tuck on day one and Mike had a tough tournament as well.

Now here is where I think the day two numbers get changed, the am's on day one either develop a pattern that is working or they see a pattern that is working and vice versa where the pro's learn something from their co's and make the necessary changes after a night of beating your head against the side of your boat and make the adjustments.

I was the 3rd boat to weigh in my three fish on day one, I sat alone in my boat in my slip and made mayself watch every bag of fish go to the scales for 2 hours......it was not fun and yea I could have been out of there by 3 and hidden in a motel room under the a/c or under a pile of silver cans......

I like the analysis of the numbers and that is interesting info now you have to come up with how the top fifty caught them, gps way points, baits, colors, size and time of day along with what the tide was doing......

We go to the next one!!! It is what we do

kb
Kent,

I agree I don't like the term either. I went from 94th place on Day 1 to 14th place on Day 2. Neither of my pro's did anything different for me, rather Day 1 I had a fellow fisherman from AZ whereas Day 2 I drew a Delta local who had more history as to where the big fish spots were. We stayed in big fish water (i.e. location that had the possibility of a 5lb or better fish) 99% of the day whereas my Day 1 guy ran out of water/ideas and asked me where to go after 11am. I showed him how to run patterns on the delta even though he didn't feel too comfortable running far from Frank's Tract as he didn't want to get lost. Had I spent any time prefishing for this event I would have urged him to fish farther from Frank's Tract as it seemed the farther you fished from there the better the fishing was.

Day 2 I was glad to draw Leeroy as we had never fished together and I just simply went fishing. I took some advice that Chuck Peak offered me several times of the years is that you need to stay focused throughout the entire day and make sure your first cast and last cast has the same level of intensity. Day 2 I only had 6 bites and they were just a better quality. Day 1 I had 11 fish, but only weighed in 3 legal fish (too many 11.75" fish for some reason).

The difference:

Day 1 5lb 10oz
Day 2 14lb 11oz

I just chalk it up to the luck of the draw.
Robert F
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Robert F »

kb wrote:Making the "hole sitting" claim is threading on pretty thin ice Robert as you are bordering in on calling me a cheater and not what I would take very lightly.
kb
Read again Kent. I said "in the conspirators mind". If it was my opinion that this happened I would have left out that part and said it sounds like hole sitting to me. I also said doubtful it could happen for any that may be drawing such a conclusion pointing out that you went out just a couple of boats before.

I think you are a stand-up guy but you know as well as any, in bass fishing, there are people that draw wrong conclusions. I put my thoughts out there for people to consider. You may feel that everybody recognizes your integrity. Sometimes it is better to not leave room for any doubters. That is why I feel "giving" a fish to another competitor is wrong. Certainly you did not make it bite but did you tell Rob or Tommy about it? What if it was only a 4 pound margin between Bub and Ish? Do you think Bub would have chanced making the run for that kind of info?

I too am from the school that would yield to the leader on shared water. Leader or not if somebody is on my bank before me I will choose another location or fall in behind. Never chopping somebody's path. I always run my boat in a manner to give my Co-angler a shot at getting a limit. I took both my Co's to water I had no desire to fish to try to get their bags filled out. RJ Bennett and others have done the same for me when I fish the back in the Guards.

Others do not. Those same people may have the "conspirators mind" I refer to and IMO it is best not give them any ammo by giving a bed fish location to another competitor. Let the chips fall and there will never be any doubt who the true winner was. Congrats Ish. You beat us all and it was not because of that fish. That is the way it should be.
CharleyA

Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by CharleyA »

So I think we are just splittin hairs here guys. Fact is many if not most pro's and co's share stories about their day with other pro's and co's fishing the tournament. The only rule being that co's cant tell any other pro's their first day pro's what/where/when/how info. Same goes for top 10 pro's not being able to gather info from not cut pro's or co's for the last day.
So its Kent choice to tell stories and to who he tells them and to what degree of detail, It's also who he tells them to's choice of what to do with that info. Some pro's choose not to share at all, others share all and most share somewhere in between. Others may listen and choose never to use any other competitors info to their advantage do to their own moral convictions. Some pro's and co's may even spread lies to gain an advantage.
It's all part of the modern game of Pro-Bass Fishing and well within the written rules. The What goes around comes around mentality works well for alot of us out there. Some have really learned to take advantage of that and some have not but everyone has that choice so the playing field stays level in that respect.
If a pro is pissed that Kent shares helpful info with his friend Ish then that pro probably needs to become fast friends with pros like Kent and Ish. Because when competition and money is involved, those who are there to win and not just have a good ol time will take advantage of every legal opportunity they can to get into and stay in the winners circle.
Yes, you can still win without any help ever gotten or given at all And feel good about the way you went about it. And sure there is alot more personal pride involved when ya "figured it out all by yourself".
BUT...Weather it be from fellow pro's fishing the tournament, reading forum reports, noticing the guy across the slough start strokin em on cranks while you were flippin, or remembering a stretch of bank your buddy showed you 10years ago that once again set up just right for todays conditions......... there in no pro or co out there today competing, who has learned it all on his/her own.

And it's pretty clear that these days, the pro's and co's with the most pro and co friends have the best chance of winning.

Maybe it's time for you to make some more friends????
Murph
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Murph »

I think what Robert is trying to say, is that it's not right for another competitor to receive certain info. It's too hard to control, so it can't be illegal. It should be like Holdem Poker, "Tell one, Tell all"
It might be lonely at the Top, but it's a bitch, at the Bottom !
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Double-G »

Robert,

I’m not slamming you I’m just going to point out the view from the other side. You may not realize the potential issues your statement may have generated. And it sounds like you do not understand why Kent’s reply was soooooo long winded. So this may add a little insight to KB’s response to your post.
What I determined is this….Kent and Ish as well as some other boats were fishing the same area and KB just sucked the first day and felt he would not have a shot at placing even if he stayed in the area.
Kent and Ish both found the same fish both used different applications to catch (or not…Sorry Kent) them but they were both there and rest assured Ish was going back the next day with or with out KB in the area.
For Kent to tell Ish that he missed a fish by that tree is far different than Kent telling some one else who had not fished in the area where to go and what to do, that would be considered chicken shi_ and I would be the first in line to tell KB that!
Being from the old school you would understand that one of the most important things an angler has is their reputation and by using terms such as “conspirators mindâ€
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Robert F »

Thanks Greg. I understand your POV. My post was not to poke sticks at Kent. My post was to point out the fine line between what happened ( now a blow up and not a sitting 7 pouinder as stated on stage) and what people may perceive as what happened. Any tournament winner has people doubting the way the win came about. As I stated, Ish did not need that fish to beat anybody in this contest.

All of us have multiple friends and less than friends in each tournament. When you help one friend beat another you have created levels to your friendship. It may not be your intention but it is what happens. If that fish was the difference in Ish winning I am sure Bub would not be pleased with Kent. Why put yourself in that position?

Pointing out a sitting bed fish is different than bowing out of a cove or leaving a bank that you shared with a competitor that had a better day one. Yes, the fish could leave but by not fishing that target and telling everybody that you "gave" it to your friend could be construed as assistance. I still stand by my original post. IN MY OPINION giving up a sitting bed fish to your friend is a bad idea. Just MY opinion. You do not have to agree but you will not see me giving up a 7 pounder. I may give up the area completely or give up an area that has general sitting fish. I will never point a competitor to a single target. It is not a personal attack just a personal opinion that others may consider if they too are placed in that position on tournament day.

Glad we can have a civil discussion about it and not let it affect our opinions of the persons involved in this particular case. I hope I can help Kent win one by being as courteous to him as he was to Ish. By discussing this matter we all can learn how to fish hard and keep our integrity unquestioned. There are too many people on the water that do not have the courtesy that Kent displayed to Ish by yielding that water. Understanding terms like hole sitting and the differences between a rules violation and this actual event can only help others not make the mistake of breaking a rule or accusing somebody of a rules violation.The only way new anglers know right from wrong is hearing experienced anglers discuss situations like this.

Sorry for taking your thread on a tangent Kopper but it does point out that bass fishing statistics have dynamics that can skew any number.
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Barry »

Kopper, you have posted some interesting but anecdotal data which has too many variables to mean a lot. I too check the pairings and see who fished with whom and how they placed and compare them with my own draws.
I have found, as George pointed out, that is when you draw someone as opposed to whom you draw. As a backseater, I know all too well if a guy doesn't have fish going I'm not likely to catch them either.
The Delta Stren is a good example. I drew a Pro day 1 who finished in the bottom 10. He had a good area(Won my first club tourney on those islands) but the wind blew us out and we both caught 2 fish.
The second day I drew a Pro who finished in the top 15. We both caught limits and had opportunities to do better( missed bites).
I finished 71st.
As you are aware Pros and Ams switch partners day 1 to day 2.
The other coangler who drew my 2 draws finished in the top10.
The difference? His day 2 Pro having less of a chance to do well took him fishing and let him do his thing(as he gratefully acknowledged on stage).
I have found, in all of life, Timing is Everything. Luck of the draw.
I have no problems with what happened with my draws.
Somebody once said," There are lies, damn lies and statistics"
So, except as I choose to interpret them for my personal use, I take general stats with a grain of salt. They do make interesting reading though and I appreciate your time in doing the analysis.

As to Roberts comment, "It sometimes shows a fine command of language to say nothing". As you pointed out, the 98th BassFan world ranked angler didn't appear to need the help but it goes on all the time. It appears what really made the difference is a prototype frog. Darn Snagproof :lol:
What Kent and Ish did is called "networking". Friends helping friends. It is an important part of the sport we love. I know mine is important to me (if I could execute).
I think there were 3 top 10's and 6 checks in that network.
Good luck to everyone
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DanIsaac
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by DanIsaac »

KB-

You, like alot of us "long in the tooth" guys were taught the right way. You remember when sportsmanship meant something in this sport? It still does, so despite how some people see this sport going, don't change a thing!


Dan
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MIKE TREMONT
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by MIKE TREMONT »

I been trying to fix my FOULED UP computer all day, not happening as my pea brain can't comprehend what I'm suppose to do. My brain really hurts.

Then I jump on here to relax and try to focus on the GOOD things in life.

PHD's, stats and some words that I have no idea what they mean.

My brain still hurts, thanks guys :lol:
I had to come back...I know...
Wolfeman
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by Wolfeman »

'Statistics are like a lamp post to a drunk; while they may offer support, they seldom offer illumination.' John Miller, said that after a Giants game one night.

But I do love the stats. Interesting stuff, to be sure. But like others have said, they are just part of the story.
- Wolfeman
"Don't take life too seriously. You're not getting out alive." Bugs Bunny
kopper_bass
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Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by kopper_bass »

Hi Guys,
Thanks much for the feedback and input from everybody. It's actually refreshing to see a discussion with oppostion, while being civil and respectful. Thanks for not taking the topic too far off-track.

I 100% agree with everyone that numbers don't mean much; especially in this case, given the variables at play. My intensions though were not to expose any real cituations or issues, but merely to ponder the "what ifs". I absolutely believe the numbers do reflect though a common pattern of how most tourneys "shift" from day 1 to day 2 for both Pro's and Am's. I would guess that this shift is visible in the numbers for other tourneys too.

I also have to say that it is still an interesting stat on the Am side about how most "out-fished" their Pros to get to the Top 10. i have always said that winning from the back deck is even harder because there are so many more variables that they cannot control. a little luck is also needed too. Congrats to the Ams on a job well done with the fishing being so tuff!

Ricky - dude, stay away from the high level math. Put down the book and go fishing :lol: . Yeah, i know stats never tell the true story, but that what stats are for - to make up your own story. Good luck in school.

Kent - Thanks for jumping in and giving us your input. Man, do i know how you feel while sitting there listening to everyone come in and weigh heavier sacks than you. That's my whole fishing story this year --ugh! I applaud you for taking your lumps and getting on with it. I am confident that your reputation and integrity are still in-tact and well recognized. We know your one of the good guys! :D

Robert - Thank you for the input too. While we dont always agree on such things, in this instance i can see where you are coming from about the level at which info is shared among friends and how it can be on the bad side too. Ish's comments on stage didnt come out correctly, so i agree that some people would jump to the wrong conclusions on it. i think we all agree that just mentioning that you "missed" a big fish on a shared bank and then giving way to that bank for a guy who is in contention is what we all do, or should do, as part of the integrity of the game. we should do that for our friends and our competitors, because in fishing, they are both the same.

Double G - thanks for stopping in and sharing in your thoughts and perspective. you're right on about how words in a forum can be mis-read and turning on the "blue light" is not a good thing to do sometimes. i am sure you wished you were out there fishing instead of reading the Forum like all of us :shock: . I hope we hear more from you in here soon, but we see you on the water competing even sooner.


All u other Nuts - thanks, great stuff and some great quotes.

I am done with stats for now, gotta get my boat back from the shop and get out there fishing. see you all on the water soon.

Kopper
Nobody remembers who came in 2nd place. Fish Hard - Play Hard!
N.A.R
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:49 am

Re: Some Interesting Stren Stats - LONG!!

Post by N.A.R »

Kopper when you get back to stats, I would like to see.....

How many pounds it takes per day to cash a check on average.

And How many pounds do you need to catch to make the Championship.

Just a thought.......
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Jim Conlow Sr.
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Benicia Ca

Same Conversation took place about 10 years ago here

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

Greg Im sure you and KB remember this all got hashed out a long time ago.
Same comments same answers. If we live long enough it will probably come up again.

If what kb did was unethical or against the rules it would be written that way.

Greg, you explained it perfectly. that should be the last word, but of course we know that it wont be.

Jim
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Jim Conlow Sr.
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Benicia Ca

One thing more

Post by Jim Conlow Sr. »

I ahve fished both as a pro and as an Am. my experience is that I out fish the pro about as often as he outfishes me.

What I have found to be true of most of the top pros that I have fished with is that they have a game plan that they stick with. They may find it necessary to go to plan 2 or 3 before the day is over but they almost always have a plan.
If I am in the back of the boat i need to also have a game plan. Granted I need to be a little more versatile than the guy in the front of the boat because he picks the spots and the movements of the boat. The advantage that I have from the back seat is that I get to see all of the things that he is doing that are not working. so if its not working for him I will do something different. I can fish all of the spots that he has missed I can fish deeper or shallower i can create tons of variations on what he is doing and he is looking the other way while I do it.
Instead of bitching about being back seated you neet to front seat the pro. Its not as hard as it may sound.
different angles. Leave your bait in one spot longer by feeding line out when the pro moves the boat. Drop shot when he is throwng topwater. The possibilities are endless and in addition you do not have to be running the trolling motor. You have much more freedom from the back seat. and remenber he is only about 20 feet ahead of you. Big Deal.
enough said
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