DFG Townhall Meeting

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RougeBass
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DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RougeBass » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:28 pm

Thanks to Tony S, Gary and KB for setting this up! Was very informative. One of the suggestions that was brought up was to raise or delete the dollar amount on payouts for an Annual permit. Reasoning behind this was alot of team events are not drawing 25 boats. I got to thinking about this on the way home. At first I thought that was a good idea. But had a change of heart I don't think would solve our problem of way too many tournaments. Sure it would free up a ton of event permits but I think it would hurt even more in the long run with the number of tournaments. Honestly could get really ulgy. Just wondering if some else had an oppion on this issue.

I think the bottom line is the organizations NEED to work together! That is really our only option.

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Gary Dobyns
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Gary Dobyns » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:47 pm

Rougebass, you could be exacly right too. It might not be a good idea. I do think it is a dumb idea for a $$$ limit, but I agree with you, it will not fix the problem. I also agree, we need to work together to get back on the right track.

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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby LawDog » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:54 pm

I really wish I could have made this meeting but work has to come first. The first thing I thought of when I read the original post was the it would be nice to have seperate laws for small club tournaments. I'm a part of a small club with no more than 10 boats per tourny. First off its a race against time to get the permits before the first event in January. Most of the years we dont have any permitts when it comes to the first event. Also if we have to change an event for any reason its impossible to get a change of venue permit. The payout for our tournys dont even cover gas money so its not like were making a living at this. It just seems to me DFG is making it real hard for small clubs to operate within the law.

Just wanted to see if anyone else out there is having the same issues.

Scott Povio

Terry
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Terry » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:54 am

Scott,

A club can send in a permit application anytime after July 1st of the previous year. You may want to decide on a tournament schedule late in the preceding year and send it in so your legal. If you have problems, call your local regional office or email Kyle Murphy at kmurphy@dfg.ca.gov.

Good luck.

Terry Foreman

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Gary Dobyns
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Gary Dobyns » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:21 am

Scott,

I hear you. I don't have totally understand your post. I think I do but ............. if you will explain in detail what and why, I'll make sure it gets into the appropriate hands. This is the time to be bringing up issues or questions like this. If there is a problem and a fix, DFG will look at it. Please understand as a government agency it takes time to do things and some things can't be done.

JIM REYES
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby JIM REYES » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:02 am

SCOTT JUST HAVE YOUR CLUB MAKE UP A SCHEDULE AFTER THE BIG BOYS POST THEIR'S IN JULY AND STICK TO IT.

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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby 2ndsuks » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:49 am

RougeBass wrote: I don't think would solve our problem of way too many tournaments. Sure it would free up a ton of event permits but I think it would hurt even more in the long run with the number of tournaments. Honestly could get really ulgy. Just wondering if some else had an oppion on this issue.

I think the bottom line is the organizations NEED to work together! That is really our only option.


I totally agree that the orgs need to work together but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

The way I see it, the only other way to increase draws is by the anglers organizing and making that decision for them.

This was one of Gary,s pet projects and has been discussed for years but the consensus has always been that the anglers would not follow through.

But given how bad it is, I believe a majority of anglers would be willing to give it a try.

My 02

Terry
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Terry » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:15 am

Scott, let Kyle know where you are fishing and having a hard time with changes. He can help you.

Terry

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Marty
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Marty » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:20 am

Sorry I miss the meeting but I had to go to Maryland for work.

What is the issue here – reducing the number of events or the health of the Bass?
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RougeBass
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RougeBass » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:05 pm

Marty both issues were discussed at the meeting. My point of going to the meeting was to hear DFG take on regulating the number of permits an organization can get. They said they would never step in and regulate that because it is a social issue.

I got a PM asking why I felt it would make things worse and here is my take on it. If they dropped or lowered the payout on a Annual permit it would make it easier for organizations (Bass Circuts) to run events on annual permits. There is no limit on how many events can be on any body of water with annual permits. So if organization A, B, C, and D all get annual permits to hold team events with less than 50 boats on Clear Lake, and orangization E gets the event permit for the same day you could possible have 5 tournaments (Bass Circuts) plus any clubs holding events all on the same day on Clear Lake.

I really want the organizations to get together and work this out. I want to fish the best bodies of water and the best times of the year. I like sticking with a circut from start to finish for me its all or nothing. I fished 2 circuts (Pro/Ams) this year and I chose the 2 I chose because there was no conflict with the dates. My .02 the organizations need to sit down compare Pro/Am dates and work on doing away with "One Legged" circuts.

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sTony
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby sTony » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:27 pm

It's possible that a big hole in the process now is that there's no restrictions on annual permits. Now that we've entered an era where circuits are being run under annual permits it's going to do nothing more then further strain an already spread out angler pool. Event permits have restrictions, the main one being that you can only have one event permit for a location on any given day except the Delta. With the annual, any number of orgs can show up and play at the same lake, same ramp and chaos and bad blood ensues.

Coupled with the notion that it leaves the event permit holders unprotected as to how many other events will land upon the same location as their event. Now they're having to look at an even larger pool of potential conflicts.

What really needs to happen is about 12-15 key parties need to sit down and commit to each other and then commit to making a system where they all can see some potential for growth. DFG will not intercede on behalf of angler's and you truly don't want them to do so. The orgs have to man up and meet and sort things out themselves, with participant angler input.

You invite all the tournament orgs to one sit down, amongst themselves, with the intention of cleaning out the mess and eliminate the lack of communication between the orgs and come up with some methodology that allows for less events and larger draws.

Key here is that they all have to be willing to make that leap of faith together and that's what's stopping it from happening to this point. No one believes that the other will cut back in any way and if the lead org goes out and does it and no one follows suit then they might set themselves up for a disaster for an entire season. If they all made some sort of compromises in unison, then you'd have the chance for some real change in the current stale, crowded mix.

The Pro Ams might only exist down the road if orgs find a way to set up a collective tour of events. Sponsors might be more willing participants if they knew that the better balance of anglers would show up. Stops along the tour could be assigned to the orgs that play in that marketplace and possibly even set up shared sponsorships and such. This is thinking strictly regional but you might have a 12 stop tour that has four stops for each of three participating orgs. Right now that would be WCB, WON BASS and USAC. But other orgs might be able to buy into other stops on an expanded tour. Course thats just a possible example, the gathered orgs would have to come up with a their plan.

The possibilities are endless if these orgs figure out that less is pretty much always more and that they have combined destinies in many respects. It not like one is going to put the other out of business, ever. One might put themselves out but one business isn't going to 'bury' another. It's healthier for all if they all work in unison on a collective with each responsible for separate parts.

I would think you'd need to, at a minimum, have the following parties involved:

American Bass, Angler's Choice, WON BASS, National Bass
West, California Bass Championship, Heavyweight Bass Classic, Future Pro Tour, Western Rookie League, Top Stick Tour, CBAF, TBF, BASS Federation Nation. This is if your strictly talking California.
If I left a player off the list or orgs, please know it was done inadvertently.

OR

They can continue on the present course, believing that one can put the other out of business, and while they spend their energies battling each other another org can pop up and take the draw down even further. Business as usual.

Does any of that make sense? :lol:

sTony
Last edited by sTony on Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby PHENSON » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:40 pm

I was present at the meeting and allot of good things were discussed on fish care. There was allot of good data on fish mortality. The one thing that was not solved is all the tournaments going on. As mentioned above in another post DFG said it was a social issue. I think we should have a town hall meeting with tournament organizations and anglers that would have some fireworks!

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Marty
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Marty » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:10 pm

I always thought the tournaments were per county per day - As I understand it each location (fisheries that hold tournaments) can only have a tournament per day! That is if the location is in the same county. The only location that I know that has three counties in one fishery is the Delta. Clear Lake, Berryessa, Folsom, Shasta, Pedro, and Oroville are in the one county I believe. (sorry I don’t know about the South Cal). So each location can have 104 tournaments per year (just counting Sat and Sun) and not counting Club tournaments. The Delta can have 312 tournaments per year because the Delta is in three counties. Some of the originations are now holding tournaments on Friday.

Now the DFG is giving out annual permits that allow tournament originations to fish any place and any time – when did this happen?
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby kb » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:01 am

Ok you were a little bit off Marty. The delta is the only place that allows more than one event permit per county. Because there are three counties you can have more events than anywhere else. Only one event permit can be had on a lake but you can have any number of annual permitted events. These have a 25 boat and $1000 prize limit on them.

Hope this clears this up

kb
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Terry
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Terry » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:10 am

kb and Marty,

An annual permit is for less than 50 persons or $1000 in prizes, and you can fish multiple tournaments on a single water on a given day (except the Delta, which is by county because it's so large. You could fish singles if you wanted to, hence 50 people. That regulation has been on the books for many years.

sTony, leaving the clubs out of the discussion, most of which fish the annual permits, I believe would be unfair. I do see your point though. We can discuss this in SoCal.

I'm glad to see the discussion here and on other boards. Keep it up!

Terry

RougeBass
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RougeBass » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:13 pm

So everyone agrees that a meeting of the minds needs to happen. I guess the next question is will it happen? How can we make this happen? Any input???????

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Norv
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Norv » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:50 am

What is the real issue here??? Is it the number of tournament organizations? Is it that the higher number of tournaments is diluting the number of participants and negatively impacting the payouts? Is the higher number of tournaments making it difficult for DFG to control the impact of tournaments both on the body of water and the general public? Is it that the number of tournament organizations makes it difficult for tackle manufacturers to effectively promote their products through sponsorship and participation with all of the organizations?

There seem to be many interests in play.

Why does the DFG allow an unlimited number of annual permit events on a single body of water at the same time? Wouldn't a high number of annual permit events occurring at the same time on the same body of water have the same effect as one large event?

Perhaps the DFG should schedule public hearings for the tournament, tournament anglers, recreational anglers, the general public and others impacted by tournaments to offer suggestions and input on the issue of tournament fishing in general and how it should be regulated and controlled. The DFG should not be involved in regulating the number of tournament organizations, but certainly should be the governmental agency that regulates and controls them so that tournaments do not negatively impact the fishery. The DFG should also be the governmental agency that acts as an advocate for the recreational fishermen to insure that tournaments do not negatively impact their ability to enjoy their sport.
Last edited by Norv on Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RipnRog
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RipnRog » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:00 am

I am all for a meeting. and if it is going to happen it needs to happen in the north before 7/9/10 as that is the date of the jamboree.


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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Brian Ruthman » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:41 am

Why dont they just combine the Pro Team events with the Rookie team events , so the Rookie teams can see how they stack up against the Pro teams on the same body of water the same day ?
Have the points race for the year for where your weight finishes in the event 1st place through howerver many entries .
Make any team that beats the top 3 Pro teams in any one event move to the Pro side the following year Or the top 10 on the rookie league in points that beat the top 20% of Pro teams fishing at the end of year need to be moved up to Pro Team , that would take away the speculation of who should be fishing what league , and keep teams moving up to the next level .
Im sure this would free up a bunch of dates and still keep everyone fishing and draw the same numbers for the circuits .
Maybe they could call it the Combined Pro/Rookie league ....... :D

RougeBass
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RougeBass » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:45 am

Norv DFG did have a meeting. That is what this post is all about. An issue that was brought up that DFG said they would not get involved in was limiting the number of event permits that an organization can draw. The problem for me is there is too many organizations with "Regional Events". For example Organization A has a Clear Lake Region, a Berryessa Region, Oroville Region, Shasta Region, and a Delta Region, 5 events at each lake that is 25 event permits just in teams events each year. Now Multiply that time the number of organizations. That is alot of event permits for team events. That is my first issue the second issue is you have locals that just stay at their home lake and fish these events. They don't want or need to drag their boat anywhere.

I really think all this is hurting our Pro/Ams. I was at Clear Lake and the Delta in Feburary and Shasta twice in April. What is wrong with this picture? I'd like to see it the other way around.

The only fix is a meeting of the organization bottom line!!!!

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Norv
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Norv » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:20 am

Rougebass,

I meant that the DFG should hold public meetings where notices are published in a similar manner to the Brown Act so that they could get input from as many interested parties as possible. It would be particularly interesting to hear the input of the general population on the impact of tournament fishing on their enjoyment of the lakes or waterways where the fishing tournaments are being held.
Last edited by Norv on Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RougeBass
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RougeBass » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:06 am

Well unfortunatley that will not happen DFG made it clear they will not deal with any social issues. Their only concern is resources. And that point I can totally understand. May not agree with all of it but I understand why.

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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby JIM REYES » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:19 am

OH YEA WE REALLY NEED P.E.T.A. IN ON THIS!!!!!!

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Norv
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Norv » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:11 pm

If the DFG is only concerned about the resource why are they involved in discussions regarding the number of tournament organizations???

If the impact of tournament fishing on the general public isn't in the DFG's area of responsibility then what agency does have such responsibility. Perhaps the DFG should "partner" with that agency so that the actions they ultimately take will cover all aspects of tournament fishing's impact on not only the fishery, but also the general public.

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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RougeBass » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:25 am

DFG REFUSED to regulate the number of event permits that one organization could get. They did not discuss this in anyway beside telling us they would not get involved.

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Norv
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby Norv » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:28 am

Thanks for the clarification that the DFG will not directly limit the number of permits that a tournament organization can have. However, if they limit the number of permits or the number of events that can occur on a specific day and lake or waterway they are indirectly placing limits.

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RipnRog
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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting

Postby RipnRog » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:33 am

Norv wrote:Thanks for the clarification that the DFG will not directly limit the number of permits that a tournament organization can have. However, if they limit the number of permits or the number of events that can occur on a specific day and lake or waterway they are indirectly placing limits.


Norv there has has always been restrictions on the number of events that can occur on a specific day and lake or waterway.

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Re: DFG Townhall Meeting*NM*

Postby RMANZO » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:59 am

*NM*


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