Hart & partner AOY's for 2010? What happen's now?

[Guy Williams]

What are your opinions about what should happen with the team AOY's that Hart & partner won this season. I know of at least two org's that need to be aware of what the anglers as a whole feel about this issue. Are there legal issue's with any decisions?

My view on this is that if you strip one angler of the AOY then you have to strip the other. You can't go both ways on this. It has to be all or nothing in my opinion. What would the legal issue's be with no proof that they did anything illegal (not that I'm a believer) if they strip the titles? Not that Hart will fish again but the partner may want to continue fishing tournaments and having paid entry's as AOY would help. Does that make the second place teams in the points the AOY if both anglers are stripped of the titles?

This was a question that was asked of me today but I was thinking about it last night and wanted to think about it before I just typed something. Unfortunately again the org's are put in a bad spot!!!!!!!!!!
Guy Williams

[onplane]

If I was Zank, I would distance myself from Hart and pass on the AOY title if he plans on fishing further tournaments. This would be big of him and would help to regain and/or retain the respect of his peers.

[Bill Hutcheson]

Guy,

I can tell you that right now, you are not going to get any answers out of WON BASS for good reason.

I spoke with Bill Egan today and due to pending prosecution issues, they have been advised not to speak any further on the subject until the multiple jurisdictions involved and thier respective D.A.'s have had thier shot at determining if the have a case or not.

AC is not going to retroactively strip anyone of any awards as what has happened in the past is exactly that - in the past. Just as McGuire and Sosa's records are tainted, there will forever more be a pall cast over the awards that were bestowed upon Hart and his past accomplishments. No stripping necessary.

[N.A.R]

Zank is the reigning AOY and he should have his entries paid for.

Since he is demanding a lie detector test, I assume he plans on continuing his dominating ways on Lake Castaic.....

[jrbasspro]

Sorry Guy
But I disagree in this country your innocent until proven guilty and for over 200 years a lot of good people gave their lives to KEEP it that way!!!!!!!

You are not guilty bye association

Zank is welcome to fish with me In any tournament---- he did nothing wrong!!

Right is right and wrong is wrong.

What has John done that was wrong that deserves titles taken from him?

Sorry if I come off like an *** it wasn't ment to just trying to keep what could turn into a witch hunt (by a lot of people) into what it really is

Until someone is proven guilty they are innocent

Walt kondracki

[g-man]

Its in the past, and theres no proof of anything, His partner should retain AOY, and get what he earned! IMO

[Brian Linehan]

AMEN

[Guy Williams]

Sorry Guy
But I disagree in this country your innocent until proven guilty and for over 200 years a lot of good people gave their lives to KEEP it that way!!!!!!!

You are not guilty bye association

Zank is welcome to fish with me In any tournament---- he did nothing wrong!!

Right is right and wrong is wrong.

What has John done that was wrong that deserves titles taken from him?

Sorry if I come off like an *** it wasn't ment to just trying to keep what could turn into a witch hunt (by a lot of people) into what it really is

Until someone is proven guilty they are innocent

Walt kondracki

Very true Walt! Like I said before, the legality issue's are there. Both for Hart and Zank. Hard to strip Hart's AOY from the past for an incident after the fact without doing the same with Zank because your implying wrong doings during the season which would have benefited both anglers. This is a mess for both orgs and Zank. Decisions have to be made, glad none are mine!! In the end, Zank may not have done anything wrong but he may have benefited from Hart doing wrong, it was a team deal.
Guy Williams

[bass343]

Well, if you ask me. I believe Zank had an idea what was going on. How can you be a team partner and not know what goes on, on the boat? Please! I would say strip it from both and give it to the runners up.

I would say there both at fault.

[Keith R]

Ok, I am one of the affected by this. I agree that you can't accuse a partner if he is not caught, but.......does the partner of a team reap the benefits when his partner fishes alone? Yes.. Points, money in some cases, why wouldn't this affect the TEAM? Just my 2 cents. I could really care less about the AOY title, but I'm still pissed about the whole situation. Alot of mixed feelings

[onplane]

We can't prove Zank had a hand in it or knew it was going on. At this point it doesn't matter. If Hart did cheat in the pastwe would never know, but Zank being his partner will have to deal with the reputation for years to come because of his partner. Knowing or not, if I am going to want to continue what I'm doing with a clean slate, if I was him, I would take my losses and consider not accepting it. Think about it guys...if he did this.....there would then be tons of posts on here saying how he did such an honorable and selfless thing.....its harder for a cheater to to this then someone who is upfront and honest. Hope he's reading this....

[Schneider Fishing]

I don't think you really have to strip anything from anybody.
Don't the organizations have the right to refuse service?

[Brian Linehan]

So when a husband cheats on his wife without her knowledge, does that mean she is a cheater too? Just a thought.

[onplane]

I didn't say strip the Guy of his aoy...but maybe this might be something he should think about as a gesture of saying hey..to put all worries and doubts aside....I will bite the bullet.

[BigJeff]

When USC got stripped of their wins because of Reggie Bush being ineligible, EVERY player on the team was affected. I believe as a team, this stripping of Hart's wins/titles/AOYs should impact his teams as you can not go back and say one part of the team was ineligible but the rest of the team was good.

[Jim V.]

Good answer Brain

[N.A.R]

Do you really think this guy Zank will fish another event? I doubt it.....

Talk about pressure to perform.

[g-man]

Do you really think this guy Zank will fish another event? I doubt it.....

Talk about pressure to perform.

Talk about pressure NOT to perform! The first check he gets, and the bass fishing world of Cali says CHEATER! I'd hate to be in his shoes assuming he didn't cheat.


Mike Hart, you F#cked more people then you thought.. POS

[bass343]

Brian,
You just can't blame a husband on cheating on his wife. When a wife is just as bad about cheating. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

[TEAMDEADMONEY]

I think if Harts titles are stripped from him than his partners should be as well.. In this case is Hart potentially cheated then his partner benefited... I say erase that team from the record books completely for the current year.

Sorry but this is what needs to happen if they are going to get rid of Harts titles and wins....

Pete

[Kevin]

The problem is that the titles are Hart and Zanks, not just Hart. Had this incident happened at a team event where both were present, then I would agree with you.
That was a good analogy Brian. It was totally apples to apples in my pea sized brain.

[smpboy]

well if he zank is angler of the year then he would have to fish solo by himself all next year if he wanted his entries paid for cause if he fishes with someone else then it isnt the same team that won aol and then would have to pay the regular entry

[Brian Linehan]

Keep in mind, Zank caught 8 lb fish in 2 of the last 3 tournaments that they won. Both fish were caught right in front of several teams. Add in the fact that second place in each event had around 14 lbs. Btw, he beat second place in those tournaments by like 6 pounds.

Zank is a stick. Always has been. Alot of you guys who have only been in the scene for the last 10 years or those of you who don't frequent the So Cal region lakes might not know him.

Like Kevin mentioned, had the incident taken place while they were both in the boat, that would be a TOTALLY different story.

[Ringer]

Unfortunarely for his key partner I would never fish a tournament he was in again. Law of probability is against him whether Hart used weights, tied fish or cages. Maybe if he is partnered with a different guy in each of the next five events and can win four I would trust him.

[macinckirk]

here is my 2 cents worth on this,
1st off I don't know either 1 of these guys but I do know people run with the same type of people, and I'm not saying Zank did this also, because there are no facts showing it. But if he knew this man/best freind for 25years he KNEW Something, or he was missing things that were right in his face

but at the end of the day, they were not fishing a team trny at the time and there is know way to prove anything (even though it looks like Zank was in this with Hart by there winning recored, but thats not proof maybe there just that good ) has ever happen in a team trny.

So Zank should be able to take a AOY that is allready in the books for this year, if he really wents to fish next year, then he would need to fish ever 1 of the trnys by himself, Here is were I would have a problum with him fishing by himself even though he has done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law, but in my mind he knows something.

I would think that he would need to have a staff member for the org on his boat as a Vto so there is NO Way anything could be said.

I turly think the best way for zank to handle it would be pass the aoy down to 2nd, come back and fish a year by himself with a staff member from each org he wents to fish in the boat and move on


Also just something to think about, If Hart had NO problem putting 2- 6oz in a mead fish God I could see a lb going into each of those Cashtake footballs so 3-6lbs on a win I could see Mr Brian Linehan, in my eyes even though there is no proof there both guillty as hell




edit. because of my typo's I needed to change Zack to Zank sry for the typo's this should clear up my post

[Brian Linehan]

All valid points guys, but in this country everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Period!

[Guy Williams]

Then Mike should be AOY, nothing proven he did anything wrong during the team season. It can't go both ways. Anything done has to be for the whole team, not half.

AOY needs to go to the second place teams and the first team out of the TOC's need to be qualified. The "team" as a whole needs to be DQed for the year. Hart needs to be banned for life. Zank needs to be able to fish with whom ever he would like to fish with as a normal team without any restrictions and provisions.
Guy Williams

[littlebailey]

Yeah what Walt said..... yeah. yeah, yeah! i think westernbass hit a new all time high on hits in a four day period! how about those dodgers?

[DAKINE198]

There is a saying in Japanese "Bachi ga aru" which loosely translates to Punishment to be, basically what goes around comes around. I don't know Mr. Hart personally but I do know "Zank". I have seen him catch fish on the water before and after I had gone through a section. He has given me tips and advice in the past, and before any of you Jackasses chime in and say on how to stuff a torpedo, NO. Zank is a kind and personable guy so the attacks on Zank really PISS ME OFF. Especially for the guys who say " I don't know him". Mr. Hart was caught Red Handed whether it was a single act or not we may never know (but everyone seems to speculate). WON stripped Mr. Hart of HIS titles and recognition, because He was caught cheating at their Biggest event of the Year. What ever the other Org's decide to do is their decision. As for Mr. Harts other partners if they knew something then yes they should come forward. But if they don't the shame and the guilt will be on them. But to accuse an individual just by association is wrong. Almost every post on this subject is quick to accuse and put individuals on blast. Mike Hart was a Great stick, but what is very sad to me is that because of his actions he forfeited his God given talent. If I had that kind of talent what could possibly have happened to him to commit such an act. Not that he did it, whats done is done. But what devestating thing could posses a man to even concieve such a thing. Everyone of Mr. Harts partners in the past is a Phenominal stick, So look in the mirror ask yourself this. "Am I so PERFECT in my own life that I can pass Judgement on others?"........
Speak of what you know not what you think.
And Bass8myw8 you are truly a JACK for creating a login just to BLAST.
Steve Iwashita
AINOKEA " Look at my face I Don't CARE"

[Guy Williams]

To be VERY clear, I do not think for a second that Zank did or knew of anything being done. He IS innocent in this whole mess. That's not the deal though, Zank may or may not have benifited from a past cheating incident by Hart during the year. All of this needs to be figured out before the TOC's because I'd hate for some crazy stuff to happen when the AOY's are handed out. Also before the start of the next year when Zank may want to fish. In my job we look forward 2 steps at least because lives depend on it, so that's how I'm programed. I'm really looking out for Zank, I'd hate for things to get out of hand!!!!!!!!!
Guy Williams

[Murph]

*NM*

[DAKINE198]

I know Guy, I screwed up and meant to post this on another topic.

[Murph]

The AOY is determined by weight... The thinking is, if some of this weight was artificial, then the weight was Bogus. No personal attack here. Maybe a Scuba Diving Club could be given a Mission at one of the lakes in question, and see how many, if any, of these "Special Weights" might actually be found.

[smpboy]

they should of gotten a search warrant and searched his house to see what other tricks he had lying around and that might of answered alot of questions about his team partners and how deep the cheating was.