Zank flakes on Polygraph test, Siemental passed test

[Guy Williams]

I'm sure Won Bass will put on here what I got but in the end sounds like Bill Siemental passed the test with ease and Zank doesn't want to take it now for some reason. From the outside looking in it looks as though one (Siemental) had something to prove and the other (Zank) has something to hide. Thanks to Won Bass for pursuing this from all angles possible.
Guy Williams

[Schneider Fishing]

Way to go BILL SIEMENTAL !!!!!

Nothing like laying it ALL on the line and doing well.
Seems to me that he may have even laid his job on the line with this polygraph test seeing as he is a firefighter.

[leachman90]

Well done Mr. Siemental. Thats stepping up to the plate.

[619]

That's what I'm talkin about!!!!!!That a kid Bill

[ROBTOMLIN]

Bill as a good friend it turned out just the way I expected. Way to show the world exactly what the rest of us already know. Its just too bad that your guilty until you prove yourself innocent. I'm sure johns outcome will be the same.

[Guy Williams]

Bill as a good friend it turned out just the way I expected. Way to show the world exactly what the rest of us already know. Its just too bad that your guilty until you prove yourself innocent. I'm sure johns outcome will be the same.

I'm sure you'll think a little different about Zank when it comes out, I'm done at this point believing anything he has to say until the polygraph is done on him. So why doesn't he take the test that Won Bass is offering him nor return or take any Won Bass calls after flaking on two prior offers? Cuss he might not pass that's why!
Guy Williams

[Swimbait Wannabe]

I was at first a pleased that Zank came out and said that he was "legit" and looked forward to a test. I know that they are not admissible in a court of law, and that some big names have failed them in the past. With this being such a hot button issue I would have thought that all people associated with "cheater boy" would like to clear their names as soon as possible. If this news is in fact true that he has dodged numerous requests for a test only makes it look bad for him. This whole thing is crazy, glad he got caught, sad it was such a big name!

[Terry Battisti]

What do most people know about lie detector tests? Not much. I know a little bit about them because I have to take them for my job and let me tell you, they are very fallible. Compulsive liars can beat them and honest people can be found guilty or even have inconclusive results - which can lead to more questions. These attributes are the reason why lie detector tests are not admissible in court.

Lie detector tests are conducted by hooking a person up to a monitor that registers heart beat, blood pressure, muscle reaction and skin moisture, amongst other things. Once the test is completed, the results (i.e.: data) are looked at by a person and that person has to "surmise" whether or not the result is "guilty", "innocent" or "inconclusive". The results are subject to the reviewer's opinion.

I have taken three of these tests over the years for my job. I have passed two of them with flying colors and one was inconclusive. The inconclusive result actually hurt me in that it kept me from working (my normal line of work) for a period of 6 months before I was able to take the third, which I passed.

Why did I have an inconclusive result? Well, according to the test administer, it was because I was stressed out. I hadn't been sleeping, I was going through a rough period at work with tight schedules and looming deadlines, I was having some family issues and a litany of other things. In fact, he said to me, after me telling him what was going on in my life, he was surprised I passed with an inconclusive - in other words, he was surprised that I didn't have a guilty result.

False positives (a false guilty), false negatives (a false not guilty) and inconclusive results are rampant in the lie detector world.

I've known John for over 30 years. I've sat here and watched the witch hunt since the Open and it's driving me nuts. Mike Hart is the one that was caught cheating yet you all want to bring John (and Bill) into the fray. In the 30 years I've known John, I have always known him to be up front, honest and admirable. Cheating isn't in his vocab.

The crazy thing is I was talking to John this past winter about fishing down there in socal. He was tired of all the politics involved and he told me that this would be his last season fishing tournaments because the fun had faded away. He just wanted to get back to fun fishing. Now he feels that he has to fish next year just to prove that he can still win. With all that's happened in the last month, how many of you would like to go out with that on your shoulders?

John is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Not a good position for anyone to be in.

Terry

[Chris N]

I've known John for over 30 years. I've sat here and watched the witch hunt since the Open and it's driving me nuts. Mike Hart is the one that was caught cheating yet you all want to bring John (and Bill) into the fray. In the 30 years I've known John, I have always known him to be up front, honest and admirable. Cheating isn't in his vocab.
Terry

Part of the problem is that the same thing would be said for Mike Hart before he got caught. It's a frickin' mess now, but from an outside observer's view it doesn't look good when somebody doesn't take the test. Stoked Bill had the stones to step up and pass it, I'm sure he was confident that he had no reason to fail. I have no reason to doubt Zank but it does look bad when he flakes on the test, for whatever reason. I think a lot of people that aren't close to these guys may share that thought.

[Mr Gambler]

That is the way to step up & out of the shadows Bill, are you & Troy staying at Kellseyville motel this year, if so see you there

[BassFever7oh2]

John is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Not a good position for anyone to be in.

Terry

So True.

It doesnt matter if he does the test or not. There is those people out there who will say he had something to do with it and just fooled the machine. Leave the man alone.

And to those people who said even Skeet and KVD couldn't do as good as Hart and Zank....Look at the rest of the field. I am not saying that to be a A-Hole but comparing BASS the Won-Bass Teams is not apples to apples.

[jamescaird]

Refusal to take a polygraph is not an admission of guilt, and should not even suggest guilt!! Honest Abe's can flunk lie detector's, and being a previous tourney partner with a known cheater doesn't mean you're a cheater!! I don't know this Zank guy at all but there is no reason he should even be asked to take a lie detector! The fact that he refuses means nothing...those things give false positives/negatives and that's why they are inadmissable in court!

[Brian Linehan]

Was he scheduled to take one and didn't show up?

What's the deal WON???

Inquiring minds want to know!

[ROBTOMLIN]

Guy i dont know if you even know john and I suppose you dont. What gives you the right to pass judgement on him. I do know john since is was 12 now im 43 he was kicking *** then and should have went pro and im sure he has his reasons and thats between won bass and john. Everyone is wondering why but that still does not give you the right to call some one guilty. You should worry about your self. If i was john i would pop your big mouth for talking Sh@@. John is too nice of a guy. He forgot more about fishing than most people in the world could ever know. You should think before you pass judgement and be lucky my name isnt John.

[mike goodwin]

Never taken one-sounds alot like white coat syndrome when a
person has to go to the Doc for blood pressure test, mine goes
way up.

WHAT A MESS HART STARTED. Let's not convict anymore of or
brother's and get on with it.
Like I've said before, cheater's will F-UP and get themselves
caught sooner or later, just give'm time. Just like Hartless did.

I've never met Zank, so I say do what you want (as far as that
poly test goes) I will not convict you for not taken it. I believe
in giving a man the benefit of the dought.

Let's all get ready for all the new season's event's.

.02 cent........MG

[VegasBass]

Glad Bill passed........I didnt want to have to burn his book because he was a cheater! that zank character probably is the one buying the sinkers for hart!!!

[Chris N]

Refusal to take a polygraph is not an admission of guilt, and should not even suggest guilt!! Honest Abe's can flunk lie detector's, and being a previous tourney partner with a known cheater doesn't mean you're a cheater!! I don't know this Zank guy at all but there is no reason he should even be asked to take a lie detector! The fact that he refuses means nothing...those things give false positives/negatives and that's why they are inadmissable in court!

I guess Siemental didn't read your post? He didn't have a problem with taking the test.

[Chris N]

Guy i dont know if you even know john and I suppose you dont. What gives you the right to pass judgement on him. I do know john since is was 12 now im 43 he was kicking *** then and should have went pro and im sure he has his reasons and thats between won bass and john. Everyone is wondering why but that still does not give you the right to call some one guilty. You should worry about your self. If i was john i would pop your big mouth for talking Sh@@. John is too nice of a guy. He forgot more about fishing than most people in the world could ever know. You should think before you pass judgement and be lucky my name isnt John.

Any chance you have known Mike Hart before a month ago? What did you think of him?? Just wondering...

It sucks that his partners are caught up in this BS, but I really want to know the whole story.

[BassFever7oh2]

Refusal to take a polygraph is not an admission of guilt, and should not even suggest guilt!! Honest Abe's can flunk lie detector's, and being a previous tourney partner with a known cheater doesn't mean you're a cheater!! I don't know this Zank guy at all but there is no reason he should even be asked to take a lie detector! The fact that he refuses means nothing...those things give false positives/negatives and that's why they are inadmissable in court!

I guess Siemental didn't read your post? He didn't have a problem with taking the test.

Siemental just likes to see his name everywhere and likes the attention. Why else would he do a fishing video in a bear suit?

Vegasbass, it is funny how you dont know jack about people but still want to blast them over the internet. Grow a pair and think before you speak.

[Chris N]

Because bears are cool...

[BassFever7oh2]

Because bears are cool...

yes they are and what else would get attention like a 6 foot bear fishing out of a bass boat?

[BassFever7oh2]

So everyone wants the dumb tests done. WHAT IS THE POINT? When can we stop beating the dead horse and move on?

What would you guys say if Hart took the test and the test said he didnt do it at the open? Would that change your minds?

[Guy Williams]

Guy i dont know if you even know john and I suppose you dont. What gives you the right to pass judgement on him. I do know john since is was 12 now im 43 he was kicking *** then and should have went pro and im sure he has his reasons and thats between won bass and john. Everyone is wondering why but that still does not give you the right to call some one guilty. You should worry about your self. If i was john i would pop your big mouth for talking Sh@@. John is too nice of a guy. He forgot more about fishing than most people in the world could ever know. You should think before you pass judgement and be lucky my name isnt John.

Sorry Rob for pissin' on your frosted flakes but I have an opionion and so do you. I just reported what I know about the subject, got the e-mail today and put it out there. I don't really care how good he is and what he forgot and where he should be. All I care about is the truth be told. The truth is there somewhere and we all deserve to hear it. He can close this chapter of a cheater getting caught, the ball is in his court!! BTW, please don't hit me!
Guy Williams

[bassman619]

IMO Zank flaked cause he's guilty...... just my opinion though

[Gary Dobyns]

I do not know Zank, never met him that I remember BUT, what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty". These witch hunts are not good for our sport. Terry Battisti and Mike Goodwin made excellent points here on this topic. I personally have taken about 15 lie detector tests and even a voice stress test over the years. They were common years ago at our events. Some circuits tested top 5, several top 3. Did they help, probably. Should they be used, definitely if there are any "questions". There has to be a deterrent.

Think about this guys. If you flunk a test......even being innocent....you are done!!!! If you are stressed and give off questionable vibes??? You might be guilty.

I'll go one step more. I had an answer, that was in question once............The tester made a big deal out of it. Can you imagine what was going through my mind??? SHOCK!! SHOCK!! My missed question????

Is your name Gary Dobyns? He called it a miss or questionable!! Later he told me I read like a book. Some people can lie and get by these tests, others read like a book and have zero chance. According to him, "I'm one that reads EASY and could never get by one". Thankfully that is not a concern of mine.

These tests now SCARE THE SHI* out of me!! I do know my NAME!!

I think tail boats are far better. I remember a bad team years ago. They won more than Hart. The director told them and put a tail boat on them. That was the last event they fished for years, then one reappeared for a short time in tournaments. Now he only does seminars.

A cheater will get caught and then get to live Hart's life. I personally believe, in the end Hart made tournament fishing better. If an ill thought ever popped into your mind, Hart will probably pop in as well. In the end he probably helped us, though certainly not on purpose

Please re-read Terry Battisti and Mike Goodwin's posts. They are very good. Again, I refuse to believe we have that many bad apples in this great sport.

[N.A.R]

[quote="Gary Dobyns"]
I think tail boats are far better. I remember a bad team years ago. They won more than Hart. quote]

Sorry Gary but there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH that another team could win more than Hart.

That would be classic to have one of these clowns do seminars now, and have their 3 online nut huggers in attendance.....

Tony Richards

[Brian Linehan]

You are right on Gary. Great points!

Hey Guy, who sent you an email about all of this?

[Guy Williams]

I'll post it.
Guy Williams

[GKramer]

A lot of guys I respect have chimed in here, but some should listen to what they are really saying. If we were talking gambling or alcoholism, not corruption in bass fishing, they would be called "enablers."

You don't put out the sign in front saying, "This house protected by Brinks" then leave the back door unlocked. When you suspect anyone, you also protect everyone. This not an issue of "...until proven guilty" this is an issue of security. When we have tools to help us maintain the integrity of the game--something everybody says they want--then shouldn't we use it?

Let's not be naive. Cheaters are just one segment of the entire population. Don't look at them as mysterious time travelers from another planet. Their trailers are out there in the parking lot.

gk
www.kramergonefishing.com

[ROBTOMLIN]

Guy, An opinion is one thing but understand no one owes you or anyone else anything. Slander to make you feel larger or save bass fishing is'nt gonna help John or his situation and this is what its about. His ability to do what he believes is good for John. I don't want to be an a@@ Ho@@ about this but sometimes we need to remember there is a line that is not up to us to draw because its not our pencil. A conclusion will come and its up to John. In the mean time enjoy the fact that we do have great organizations to handle these situations quit fighting battles that arent yours. We all hear what options were given and its his choice to make. You or i may not agree but dont have the right to slander.

[Gary Dobyns]

[quote="N.A.R"][quote="Gary Dobyns"]
I think tail boats are far better. I remember a bad team years ago. They won more than Hart. quote]

Sorry Gary but there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH that another team could win more than Hart.

That would be classic to have one of these clowns do seminars now, and have their 3 online nut huggers in attendance.....

Tony Richards[/quote]

No Tony..........more than Hart!! It was years ago, early 80's.

[KPalmer]

I agree Mike with most of your point, in that the truth will eventually come out and those that chose to cheat will screw up....Those that chose to cheat have to also realize it's not just a decision they make for themselves and that they are the only ones to deal with the consequences....the selfish decision also effects their team partners, families and so on... I think if you don't have anything to hide, then step up like Bill did and clear your name....
I cross the border into Mexico a lot to fish, when coming back over it's interesting how nervous I get eventhough I have nothing to hide...I don't like to get questioned but it's required so I do it anyway cause I like to fish mexico...It's just the price you pay for something you enjoy.

Never taken one-sounds alot like white coat syndrome when a
person has to go to the Doc for blood pressure test, mine goes
way up.

WHAT A MESS HART STARTED. Let's not convict anymore of or
brother's and get on with it.
Like I've said before, cheater's will F-UP and get themselves
caught sooner or later, just give'm time. Just like Hartless did.

I've never met Zank, so I say do what you want (as far as that
poly test goes) I will not convict you for not taken it. I believe
in giving a man the benefit of the dought.

Let's all get ready for all the new season's event's.

.02 cent........MG

[Steve Reed]

Lie detectors are B.S. Cumpulsive liars are the best at passing them!!! Completely true.

Glad that siemental passed, but still a "tool" in my opinion. Stole a bait and tried to steal another...

[KPalmer]

Wow Steve...Making judgements and accusations all in the same breath. It's called free enterprise.....If you don't like someone "Stealing Bait's" then I hope you never use any Berkley products.
How are you so familiar with how a compulsive liar behaves? do you have something to confess to the board? lol

[VegasBass]

Fever.........sorry if I hate cheaters and anyone connected with cheaters. We have cheaters in all sports and they should get blasted on the internet, news, what ever forum there is. I don't care if its fishing, golf, baseball, or cycling. Cheaters Suck!!! If you want to support friends of cheaters thats your choice! Not me!!!

[j10b]

I guess Siemental didn't read your post? He didn't have a problem with taking the test.

Siemental just likes to see his name everywhere and likes the attention. Why else would he do a fishing video in a bear suit?

Vegasbass, it is funny how you dont know jack about people but still want to blast them over the internet. Grow a pair and think before you speak.

Why don't you do the EXACT same thing.....

[BassFever7oh2]

We are all connected in a sense. We all fish. I know Hart, I know Zank, I know the "tool"....does that make me a cheater just because I know them??

Why don't we just start blasting everyone who knows anyone!!!!

[KPalmer]

We are all connected in a sense. We all fish. I know Hart, I know Zank, I know the "tool"....does that make me a cheater just because I know them??

Why don't we just start blasting everyone who knows anyone!!!!

Did you fish team tournaments with Mike Hart? If not, your shouldn't be questioned..If Yes, then yep, Mike made you guilty by association and now, in my worthless opinion, you would need to clear your name if you collected checks while fishing with him. It's just common sense.....Where has that gone?

[Kevin]

Zank doesn't owe anyone anything. Innocent until proven guilty. Rob, Gary, and Mike are IN MY OPINION totally right on this one. Although we are entitled to our own opinion, it's crossing the line to attack John's integrity without evidence to back it.

[KPalmer]

Zank doesn't owe anyone anything. Innocent until proven guilty. Rob, Gary, and Mike are IN MY OPINION totally right on this one. Although we are entitled to our own opinion, it's crossing the line to attack John's integrity without evidence to back it.

You ever heard the term "Probable Cause?" Mike Hart is evidence enough for him to be questioned...Had they not won any tournaments or placed him in any tourneys fishing together then there wouldn't be much "Probable Cause" would there? More probable cause would be that he committed to taking the test and then went against his word....which is evidence of his lack of character already...don't you think?
Mike brought the attention on Zank remember and Yes he does owe WON Bass a Poly if he wants his AOY recognition.

Too bad Won Bass wasn't like the Sheriff's in "Rounders" when they caught worm cheating at poker.... That would send a pretty clear message too cheaters. The cheater get's his A$$ beat and even the innocent one with him got his A$$ beat...Then when Zank is found innocent like you say, he still got his arse beat and he can then settle the score with Hart..... That should be the new change to Won's rules...lol

[Kevin]

I guess I must be ignorant about probable cause.
I respect your opinion.......I just don't agree with it.

[Team Pollard]

I want to think zank is not guilty, and i beleive he is not guilty. But, if Hart can cheat with three Amauters on his boat what makes you think that he could'nt do it with Zank in the boat. He can tell zank take the front of the boat and Hart then puts the weights in the fish. I believe Hart is the guilty one, he got caught and he is paying the price. Leave Bill and Zank alone. They are innocent in tell proven guilty. Dont you think Bill and Zank are going thru enough acusations? The truth will come out. I never have none anyone who can cheat or lie without getting caught eventually. Maybe Hart needs to be a man, (which we no he is not) and come on here and clear Zanks and Bills name.

[Andrew Jackson]

Just a thought/question, "if" this has been happening for years that would mean lotsa torpedo weights being bought/sold. So any of these guyzez local stores been selling to them? I've not heard of 2oz torpedo weights as "normal" bass tackle. Not to make an issue out this or keep beating this dead horse for those don't think it should be an issue in your sport, but I am. I don't like getting F'd by people I have I thought were great sticks that I have competed against.

[BigJeff]

Pretty sure I saw some posts right after the Open that Zank wanted to take a lie detector test to clear his name, as did Siemantel.

I would hope that Zank would want to erase as much doubt about himself as possible. He definitely is innocent until proven guilty and he has not been accused of anything....but there will remain a suspicion until his name is somehow cleared.

Maybe he will go out with a new partner, kick *** and take names this year? I would say that would definitely erase the doubts.

[DanIsaac]

Guys, remember, WONBass did not start this whole thing. All of this is the direct result of Mr. Hart's actions, and Mr. Hart's alone.

Have are others been tarnished? You bet they have, unfortunately that's just the way it is. Now, by no means does this mean it's right. Plain and simple, IT is what it IS!

Some individuals have experienced the highs of being associated with Mr. Hart, and now they are experienceing the lows of being associated with him.

Each is entitled to proceed as they choose, but Mr. Zank should never have said he wanted to take a test to clear his name, in public, on this site for everyone to read. Therein I believe is where the problem lies.


Dan

[DL]

Has anyone stopped and thought "What happens when he takes the test knowing he is innocent, and somehow gets a "failing" grade by the testing company? then what? If that happens, he can NEVER fish again...ANYWHERE. The supposed lie detector tests are not fool proof. WON bass is looking to hang someone else...and they have their eye on John. The mere fact that he fished with Mike is the only reason they have their sights on him...

I, for one, am more shocked than pissed that this whole incident has happened. I am still trying to wrap my mind around it. And unlike a lot of guys out here, I don't lay awake at night thinking about it... And before I get labeled as a groupie for these guys, anyone caught cheating needs to get the proper punishment...two times over.

[N.A.R]

Guy thanks for keeping us up to speed....

[SpookFreak]

I know of a lie detector professional and he is pretty dam good he has given hundreds if not thousands of these tests. He polygraphs for the FBI and now LAPD. You have to pass these poly's to be in either of these occupations. He even flies out to different countries testing fugitives and drug cartells. It has alot to do with the person giving the test and the specific questions that are asked. Granted some slip through but it depends on the quality of who is giving the test there are some lousy polygraphers out there so i hear.

All those involved should at least take the test if they are truely innocent.
JMO

[DeltaBound]

Just out of curiousity, how much does it cost to arrange a poly?