Hypothetical situation poll

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:32 am

Mr Ringer I can only imagine how difficult and boring life would be controlling all our impulses. This is what makes us human. To not act upon fun with no intent of harm is hardly immoral. Were getting way to serious here. I'm sure all of you guys that feel this is such a violation of your ability to win or place high in a fishing tournament. Heck I never even won one but I'd never come in with 6 fish in my well even by mistake. If you can't keep track of the amount of 5 you shouldn't be operating a vehicle or a boat and I totally agree you deserve to be penalized accordingly. I personally believe we should be allowed to keep up to 10 if there are two guys fishing (or the legal limit) where it's the law. More than likely we have so many rules because of sheer stupidity like 2 guys wining a tournament telling the other fisherman at the award ceremony that they won by split shoting crawdads. No joke!!!!

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:46 am

I agree and at 60 I am still plenty impulsive so no arguement there. I just view obeying rules in a fishing tournament as serious. Obviously quite a few people who fish them think you can fudge a little.

Noluk · Post by **Noluk** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 am

stickbait wrote:
BigJeff wrote:Question on the 6th fish in the box. If I have 5 in the well, catch #6 and determine its going to cull a fish out, and then proceed to drop the 6th fish in the box prior to culling am I now DQ'd because I have 6 in the box? Maybe this is a silly question but it does leave a grey area for having a 6th fish in the box.
Of course not... first and formost you have to take care of the fish.. get it in the live well, don't throw it on the floor or leave it in the net.... then get out scales and balance beam and get it done...DO NOT CONTUINE TO FISH ....the rule is directed to not be carring around a bunch of fish

If you notice alot of the real pros will weigh and hook up a float at the time they catch each fish then its a matter of seconds to weight and cull when you catch the 6th because you already know whats up ...

I have to disagree here. If the intention of of the mob is to stress that all rules must be followed you may NOT place the 6th fish in the livewell prior to removing one. Of course there are also rules about no wake zones (a no wake zone is not always a 5mph zone it is a no wake by some stupid definitions((you can leave a wake with your trolling motor))) and pissing in the lake violates all kinds of park, water department and lake rules which can be ticketed and subject you to a disqualification. I find it ironic that our tournaments have universal rules that state if you are ticketed you get DQ'd but if you are not ticketed it is acceptable to break any law that you were supposed to be following. (unless it is a tournament orginization rule as compared to a state or federal law)

Here are a few other thoughts for you. Do you have an autoinflate life jacket? Is that the only lifejacket you have on the boat? Ever taken it off during the day? You just violated federal law for the number of lifejackets on a boat. (Type 3's can only count while they are being worn) I won't even get into the DFG regulations concerning hook gap and other little details that could be applied to everyone but are not.

My point isn't that any actions were right and wrong except for one. Every single person who fishes has violated some regulation. If we are to judge only intent and condemn indivduals on a public board then we are condemning ourselves as well. Sportsmanship clauses in tournaments rules are left up to the discretion of the TD and the angler communities. One of the tenants is reflecting well on the sport. I know most of you guys and there are a few out there who haven't had a good looking reflection in years... (or maybe never in some folks cases) And despite how sexy we all think we look, this type of headhunter posting does not reflect well on the sport. Reality TV drama and MTV drama's are the lowest form of our current society and positive growth in our sport is not going to be facilitated by the Housewives of WesternBass screaming that their arch enemy rival did or did not do something. Bottom line, the DQ happened, rules were followed, and the right thing (regardless whether it was because of other anglers or not) happened.

What exactly is the drama trying to prove? If a tournament orginization does something you don't agree with, don't fish them. It is not like WB posters were elected to be the ethics committee for California fishing. We had hundreds of posts about this incident and took time to read all the responses but a straight up, we need action now post regarding the banning of lead in water related sports was glossed over and received little response and less action by the majority of the readers. So what are the goals here? Is it more important to tug someone down or protect and pass down this sport's good points to future generations.

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:15 am

EVERYBODY'S NEEDLE WILL GO OFF THE SCREEN UNLESS YOUR A COMPULSIVE LAWYER. THE POINT OF MOST RULES ARE FOR THE OVERALL RESPECT OF THE OTHERS INVOLVED WITHIN.I'LL BECOME EXCESSIVE AND SAY THIS IS WHY WE HAVE MANSLAUGHTER ALL THE WAY TO 3RD DEGREE MURDER. TOURNAMENTS AND FISHING IN THE TEAM CIRCUIT ARE ALL ABOUT FUN, BUT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A FEW BAD APPLE IN THE BUNCH AND EVENTUALLY THEY START TO ROT AND EASY TO PICK OUT. WHEN YOUR FISHING FOR A PRIZE AS A PRO SAY $10,000 AND UP THESE GUYS HAVE OBSERVERS ABOARD WITH THEM MIND THE MOST RESPECTABLE FISHIN BOYS IN THE WORLD. THEN WE HAVE TECHNICALLY A POLICED OPERATION! WHY DO YOU THINK? GREED!!!! FAME!!!! FORTUNE!!!! All we have in our little groups is basically ego but we surly don't want to look like a holes in front of our peers and friends. Local team tournaments to me are a social event and not to be taken too seriously. Again something like this only happens once in a while and is almost always an honest mistake. We all manage our well fish and spend a lot of money to do so on tools for this purpose. Not making excuses just stating realities from my point of view. Never did this situation happen to me that I wrote in a fantastical way nor have I ever had 6 fish in my well unless I was culling one of them but come on why are you boys coming up with this stuff, lets just enjoy the fishing. Human nature is what it is and we all know the answers to the polls will have a percentage lean to some degree, So what you me them are going to change it. Not going to happen.I'll have Fun Fun Fun till uncle sam takes the fishing away.

Big Rye · Post by **Big Rye** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:33 am

Is it dishonest or cheating.. the rules say itâ€™s cheating so doesnâ€™t that make it cheating?? Just cause you donâ€™t like the rule it doesnâ€™t make it dishonest as apposed to cheating. I think this is just splitting hairs. I am sure Mike thinks by weighting his fish he is simply dishonest. Maybe someone should start a circuit for all of you who believe that itâ€™s ok to break a rule that you donâ€™t agree with cause it only dishonest and not cheating. I think all of the honest fishermen donâ€™t want to fish with the cheaters.
You ask what the advantage is.. Letâ€™s say you are fishing in Shasta in January. You catch your 6th fish. Itâ€™s 6 ounce heavier than your smallest fish but itâ€™s not looking real good. With the rule in effect you need to make a judgment call at this point either keep the heavier one and cull or throw it back since you arenâ€™t sure it will make it through the day. You either throw it back and lose the 6 ounce extra or keep it and potentialy lose 8 ounce if it dies. Most people will toss it because they donâ€™t want the penalty.
Without the rule you can keep both until you are sure itâ€™s either going to make it or not before you decide what to do with it. Anyone that has fished Shasta in January knows that a couple of ounce makes a huge difference from a check and donating. If you only caught 6 fish the rule not in effect gives you a huge advantageâ€¦ You donâ€™t have to live with a bad decision you simply throw it back at the end of the day.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:00 am

Noluk wrote:Bottom line, the DQ happened, rules were followed, and the right thing (regardless whether it was because of other anglers or not) happened.

No... What happened at the AC has no bearing on this whatsoever. If you read the question, you can see that the scenario described is totally different than what happened there.

I'm going to ask sTony to lock this thread as it's getting pretty far afield, and all the "everyone breaks the rules" crap is pretty disheartening.

Suffice it to say, the results show that 3 out of 4 people feel that if you break a rule that you should be disqualified for, and conceal it so as to not get dq'd, it's cheating.

I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that seems to be how people feel.

CN · Post by CN » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:05 am

WackySenko wrote:If the rule states: you can only have 5 fish and must immediately cull upon catching your 6th fish. Then that means YES you are cheating if you toss a sixth fish in the well and keep fishing. Even though you ARE going to cull later.

You beat me to it Senko, Long you might want to re-read the DFG Law that no matter how you word it,supercedes any Tournament rule. Even if you are fishing two people in the boat and you have cought 5 fish and they were all put in the Livewell you must stop fishing.

Now I know what your saying that with two people you can have 10 fish but not the way your thinking and yes the F&G could not prove who cought what. If I am wrong please tell me so I wont be wrong again.

Long Nguyen · Post by **Long Nguyen** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:23 am

CN wrote:
WackySenko wrote:If the rule states: you can only have 5 fish and must immediately cull upon catching your 6th fish. Then that means YES you are cheating if you toss a sixth fish in the well and keep fishing. Even though you ARE going to cull later.
You beat me to it Senko, Long you might want to re-read the DFG Law that no matter how you word it,supercedes any Tournament rule. Even if you are fishing two people in the boat and you have cought 5 fish and they were all put in the Livewell you must stop fishing.

Now I know what your saying that with two people you can have 10 fish but not the way your thinking and yes the F&G could not prove who cought what. If I am wrong please tell me so I wont be wrong again.

CN, you and Senko are absolutely right. The scenario I posed in this thread was purely hypothetical to prove a point to the person who stated that having 6 fish in the well had no advantage, which I disagree with.

stickbait · Post by **stickbait** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:35 am

Ringer wrote:Oh, I might do it but I would never weigh in after I did it. If it was such a great thrill I would give up my entry fee and just fun fish the rest of the day.

you mean to tell me if you had a live well full of 8 lbers and you knew you would win .. you would give up your entry and all winnings......... CAUSE YOU WANTED TO HAVE FUN ....

Ya right ..

We need more guys like you fishing tournaments !!!

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:47 am

No, I would have culled properly then weighed in and beat your a$$. Actually I might just quit and go feed my face if I was hungry.

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:22 pm

the answer is you only have broken a rule if you keep one of the larger fish you caught after having 6, reason being you will still only cull from the original 6 you caught which will not improve your position in any way but you have now experienced the ultimate bass fishing experience.It's 5 minutes later!!! I never said you had to keep anything you hooked after having 6 to cull from. Unfortunately for me I have never had this problem to think about. I still can dream though

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:22 pm

Reasons why having 6 or more fish in the well is an advantage:

1. If one is not looking good, you can cull is vs. a healthier one

2. If you have 2 or more fish the same weight, you can wait until later in the day, then see if either has lost weight due to throwing something up.

3. Being able to keep casting on schooling fish to keep them active. People who know know the advantage here.

I'd respectfully suggest that all the people who think that having 6 is not cheating or is no advantage haven't spent enough time fishing competitively to figure out why it is.

Now, story time:

This year I'm fishing the A/C Clear Lake Pro/am. We're sight fishing and already had a limit. I'm on a 4 and a half pounder and hook it. My am hooks a 2 and a half seconds later. I'm yelling for him to forget about his fish and just net mine.

He swings his fish in and is messing around with it for a bit, then turns and nets my fish. I get the fish out of the net and go to cull. I'm looking around for his fish but don't see it. "Where is that fish I ask." He says, "it's in this compartment". I had to laugh. The poor fish was sliming up one of my rear compartments. At least we didn't break any rules, I had to hand it to my guy.

Also interesting, I had 4 bass in that tournament in the well that weighed 2lbs 12oz and balance beamed identically. It would have absolutely been an advantage to keep 6 or more in the well during that event because those fish were on the tail end of the spawn and prone to dying in the livewell.

Now, back to my popcorn

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:29 pm

Yes and if you has breakfast at Denny's and I had breakfast at McDonalds you would have an advantage, I think we need a rule on this.

Buzzbommer · Post by **Buzzbommer** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:05 am

It comes down to morality. As we all know, there are rules and they are obligated to be followed by all involved in the event and policed by those that run the event. There should be no 'gray area' I keep seeing on various sites.

If you're caught speeding on the road and get a ticket, you probably were speeding and have to pay the fine.

I really am not trying to 'push my own agenda'... as I have been accused of in the past, but a rule is a rule and if it's broken than the accused should have do deal with the punishment that fits the crime, whatever it should be... regarding whatever law or organization set the law... if the individual is indeed guilty of the infraction.

It's sad to me to read these poll's because it just exposes the 'gray areas' in these organizations, yet I think it is a healthy way to stimulate thought's and maybe, hopefully, create an alert to these various organizations.

What about a set of printed rules that alleviate these questions, and provide a set of rules that may not be disputed, to those that participate...? I know some org's are going to remain complacent, but it's evident that there are situations that require clarification.

I love the sport of fishing, especially competatively, and wish that other competitors would display good judgement and excersise morals when it comes to rules of question, and I understand the extra burden I am requesting of organizations to strengthen these rules.

I am probably going to get blasted for this post, but I only wish better for us all. Those that already know me, know I play fair and just want clarification of rules and reg's. And LOVE TO FISH...!!!

Very Respectfully... ChrisR - Tylure Custom Baits

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:08 am

crap... might as well get rid of all the rules at this point..... Just the 5 biggest fish win as long as you are to the scales on time... Doesn't matter if you have 10 in the well, Dead fish, each angler having two lines in the water....throwing live bait, caging fish, loading spots, or hell, might as well just bring previously caught fish from another lake to the scales.....If people can't even police themselves and have to walk a line trying to decide if it's cheating or a violation we have serious problems and might as well bag the whole sport.... It all makes me sick. I now carry two things in my boat...A video camera and a baseball bat... make any conclusion you want.

Buzzbommer · Post by **Buzzbommer** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:07 am

Dang KPalmer... you sound pissed...!!! I know your frustration, but don't let it ruin your fun. Although I like the whole b-ball bat thing...

KPalmer · Post by **KPalmer** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:52 pm

Buzzbommer wrote:Dang KPalmer... you sound pissed...!!! I know your frustration, but don't let it ruin your fun. Although I like the whole b-ball bat thing...

I am pissed that a sport I love and enjoy is tainted by dishonest scumbags who are willing to steal from myself or other competitors... I guess the subject is too close to home for a lot of us in SoCal .... Keeping myself in check is a full time job, so I don't mean to sound like I am above all of it....I just really like the scene in Rounders where Worm is caught cheating, and justice is served right then and there with a good A$$ beating...so all I am saying is that good ol boy justice maybe what's needed once in awhile...I wouldn't expect anything less for me, if I stole from you. I won't let it ruin my fun...but come on guys, there are for sure honest mistakes made, and I have made my share, and I do believe that most people will conduct themselves with honesty and integrity... but the small percentage out there who wanna play by their own code of conduct might have a hard time eating corn on the cob someday if caught.. lol

Buzzbommer · Post by **Buzzbommer** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:21 am

KPalmer...

You are absolutely right. We don't need anymore 'hypothetical' questions or polls, not to knock whomever started this one. Not at all. What this sport needs is a set of rules that are 'set rules' and cannot be questioned. And if they are questioned, there should be a voice (usually a TD) that polices and clarifies any question(s) right there on the spot.

Organization per organization. Just like any other sport. It's only fair to us all, regardless of where we live or what tournament we decide to fish. KP, I have been knocked around over this opinion I dunno how many times, but it sounds feasible, right...?

And hell, if I couldn't eat my corn on the cob I would rather die. No bbq would ever be the same. No cob, no life..... ChrisR