ANGLERS CHOICE PRO TEAM

[RipnRog]

Roger- I've fished ABA on the Delta and you guys got it right. I mostly fish the Motherlode Region, but the way you and Robert both run your tournaments is why i fish ABA. Keep it up. You guys throw a good ol REGULAR team tourny. None of this ( I dont want to fish if this guy or that guy is there) stuff, just show up and go fish a good honest ran tourny.

Thanx Aaron I appreciate your kind words. I have to get over to one of Roberts tournies soon... I hear the tacos are great....

[Aaron Cole]

yah, you should. i wish the dates this weekend were not conflicting. Robert puts in a lot of hard work on the motherlode tournys and it shows. Weigh-in, eat TACOS, drink a cold one (ON ROBERT) and lie to your buddies about the day. It don't get no better.

[Cooch]

ABA went to a 1 in 3 payback this year. So far I have only had one person complain about it Rodger

I told ya you should stop standing on corners in front of Busses Ripper. I count three, Me, Mike Andrews and Levy, in this thread alone who at least have "our doubts" and dislikes for the 1:3 payback. I've seen not one single angler come in on any thread here on Westernbass, and state, "I'm fishing ABA because they are going to a 1:3 payback." It's "pro-teams" and the vast majority of us, don't want to fish for a diluted payback, especially when the fees are being raised!

[RipnRog]

ABA went to a 1 in 3 payback this year. So far I have only had one person complain about it Rodger

I told ya you should stop standing on corners in front of Busses Ripper. I count three, Me, Mike Andrews and Levy, in this thread alone who at least have "our doubts" and dislikes for the 1:3 payback. I've seen not one single angler come in on any thread here on Westernbass, and state, "I'm fishing ABA because they are going to a 1:3 payback." It's "pro-teams" and the vast majority of us, don't want to fish for a diluted payback, especially when the fees are being raised!

I am glad you and Mike are the vast majority. You have not seen one payback yet you blog and blog and blog about what it is. Your a mod and your one the guys that always promotes going to the source..... My phone has not rang once from you.... You just ASSUMED....Shame on you ...

[Cooch]

I am glad you and Mike are the vast majority. You have not seen one payback yet you blog and blog and blog about what it is. Your a mod and your one the guys that always promotes going to the source..... My phone has not rang once from you.... You just ASSUMED....Shame on you ...

What's to assume? ABA has gone to a 1:3 payback, ABA has raised the fees. This IS, a Pro style team event. No, Mike and I aren't the vast majority, but infact two good friends of yours, who've supported this circuit since Lee & You took it, and two local anglers that have fished and been very succesful on this River for many years. We're just a sample, take it for what it's worth brother. No assumtions at all here, facts are facts, a 1:3 payback in a "pro-team" event and raised entry fees, suck, and we're not fishing because of those two facts! Good luck with it as I have stated all along since it's announcement. Spin it anyway you want, that's the bottom line for us.

PS. Mike and I also have team partners, who both share in the same thought process, your count is now up to 5! If I toss in Doink and yer weigh master, it's up to 7! We're not just a couple of isolated voices here.

[RipnRog]

I am glad you and Mike are the vast majority. You have not seen one payback yet you blog and blog and blog about what it is. Your a mod and your one the guys that always promotes going to the source..... My phone has not rang once from you.... You just ASSUMED....Shame on you ...

What's to assume? ABA has gone to a 1:3 payback, ABA has raised the fees. This IS, a Pro style team event. No, Mike and I aren't the vast majority, but infact two good friends of yours, who've supported this circuit since Lee & You took it, and two local anglers that have fished and been very succesful on this River for many years. We're just a sample, take it for what it's worth brother. No assumtions at all here, facts are facts, a 1:3 payback in a "pro-team" event and raised entry fees, suck, and we're not fishing because of those two facts! Good luck with it as I have stated all along since it's announcement. Spin it anyway you want, that's the bottom line for us.

PS. Mike and I also have team partners, who both share in the same thought process, your count is now up to 5! If I toss in Doink and yer weigh master, it's up to 7! We're not just a couple of isolated voices here.

we will see what the vast majority think of it come saturday now wont we.... Like I have said the whole way you can not please everyone. ABA made this change based on the economy as they are trying pay more places. When I first heard about the change my first thought was that if first place didnt win as much as in years past what would that do to the circuit. the price did go up this year as it was 240 all in . the basic entry was raised $10.00 and I added a winner take all option of $20.00. I truely believe that the VAST majority are going to be very very happy with the new payout structure. I will miss you being one of the teams out there cooch.... but I will still be over Friday night to sleep on the couch.....

[Cooch]

we will see what the vast majority think of it come saturday now wont we....

I think a better gauge of it's affect, is once guys realize and see that the change is in place(The majority of your Delta field, don't come in here to WB, much less spend time surfing the bass fishing world on the internet.), will be the results after 3 events! Besides, with the bite as tough as it is, yer numbers could fall and it would not be prudent to blame it on the payback! HAR! HAR! HAR!

[RipnRog]

we will see what the vast majority think of it come saturday now wont we....

I think a better gauge of it's affect, is once guys realize and see that the change is in place(The majority of your Delta field, don't come in here to WB, much less spend time surfing the bass fishing world on the internet.), will be the results after 3 events! Besides, with the bite as tough as it is, yer numbers could fall and it would not be prudent to blame it on the payback! HAR! HAR! HAR!

you just have to have the last word done ya...... what are you going to say when the circuit grows.... you going to coock some crow on that trager?

[Cooch]

you just have to have the last word done ya...... what are you going to say when the circuit grows.... you going to coock some crow on that trager?

No, seems you want that just end! LMAO!
There will be no crow on my Treager. If I'm wrong, I'll tell ya so, still wont' come fish em. I'f I'm right, rest assured, you'll not have to worry about me comin in here and rubbin it in yer face tellin ya, "I told ya so!"

[Brian Linehan]

Something to think about guys. It's really easy to blame the orgs for the low turnouts because they are A.) Greedy B.) Getting rich, etc.......But have you ever broken it down and asked yourselves the following:

1.) How much did Chevy profit from your truck sale?
2.)How much did the Chevy dealer profit from the sale?
3.) How much did Ranger profit when you bought your boat?
4.) How much money did Anglers Marine make on your boat?
5.) How much does ARCO make for every gallon of gas you use in the truck/boat?
6.) How much does your insurance company profit?
7.) How much did the rod/reel, lure manufacturers profit on your tackle?

The list goes on and on. The point is, everything you consume and participate in comes with a price. Most of you are in business for yourself or have been in the past. If you are still in business, the only reason why is because you are making a profit and I would imagine it being a MUCH larger profit than any regional team organization.

100% Bass was amazing and I loved them. I even ran their tournaments for 2 years. However, 100% Bass is not in business because there was no profit. That business model only works if sponsor money offsets bottom line. News flash...sponsors have backed off and don't contribute what they used to. Therefore, the constant comparison to "the way it used to be" is just that.....a memory.

I'm all for a good payback, professional director/circuit, a great TOC for a boat/motor, and having a good time. I just think it's myopic to make a pariah out of the orgs when every other company/product I listed above makes a profit as well.

When was the last time any of us have ever called our boat dealer, truck dealer, or gas station to complain that they are making too much of a profit? The answer is never! What makes the orgs any different than these companies? Yet, some people seem to have an opinion/belief that the demise of tournament bass fishing is due to greedy orgs. That's narrow minded and simply not fair.

Just my opinion
Brian

[bryanmc]

Brian:
It's not greedy as in making too much profit, it's greedy as in oversaturating the market to try to make up the difference with volume. If there were only 2 orgs with 3 regions each, the participation would be up as would the paybacks and the orgs bottom line.

That's my opinion at least....

[Brian Linehan]

I hear ya Bryan, but if we're talking about oversaturation and not greed, your proving my point as well. Whether it's auto manufacturers, boat manufacturers, boat dealers, auto dealers, gas stations, tackle companies, etc...we're oversaturated with their products as well.

3 regions averaging 100 boats each is no different than 10 regions averaging 30 boats. It's a wash!

Vehicles and fuel are a commodity. We depend on those products for our survival and that's why the demand for fuel isn't too far off. Also, although auto sales are down, we all have to purchase vehicles in order to get to work and back.

It's the luxury items like boats, tackle, and ultimately tournament fishing that is the most affected by the economy. Remember, tournament fishing is gambling and when times get tough, we all hold onto our wallets a little tighter.

Brian

[bryanmc]

Only thing is, nobody's averaging 30 boats.... Also, 10 regions times 4 orgs makes it look even worse. If there were only 5 or 10 norcal team tournaments (5 for each of 2 orgs) the participation, payouts and bottom line for you guys would be way up. Instead, what we have is 4 or 5 orgs each holding 4 or 5 tournaments on any given weekend.

[RipnRog]

Only thing is, nobody's averaging 30 boats.... Also, 10 regions times 4 orgs makes it look even worse. If there were only 5 or 10 norcal team tournaments (5 for each of 2 orgs) the participation, payouts and bottom line for you guys would be way up. Instead, what we have is 4 or 5 orgs each holding 4 or 5 tournaments on any given weekend.

in the Delta I am average 46 boats per tournament. maybe it is because we only hold 6 tournaments per year on that body of water.

[Brian Linehan]

Well, I guess it comes down to capitalism at it's finest. The strong will survive and the weak will fall by the wayside.

Regardless, I still love the sport, the comraderie, the competition, the thrill of driving 70 mph to my first spot and whacking a 25 lb bag, and then lying to everyone at weigh in! lol.

[Brian Linehan]

in the Delta I am average 46 boats per tournament. maybe it is because we only hold 6 tournaments per year on that body of water.

No, I think it's because you do a great job and your guys respect you!

Brian

[bryanmc]

in the Delta I am average 46 boats per tournament. maybe it is because we only hold 6 tournaments per year on that body of water.

Well... you must have the secret then... Let's see. AC pro-am at Havasu, 17 boats WON teams at Shasta 7 boats, AC teams at Pedro 11 boats, WON just cancelled a socal team tournament on expected low turnout (and to not interfere with bass-a-thon )

Like I said before, it's just my opinion on what's happening.

[RipnRog]

in the Delta I am average 46 boats per tournament. maybe it is because we only hold 6 tournaments per year on that body of water.

No, I think it's because you do a great job and your guys respect you!

Brian

I do what I do for the love of the sport... As I am sure you do as well.... this isnt the easiest most fun thing to do out there as I would definately rather be blasting off to go fishing.... I guess that is why there isnt a waitinf list of guys wanting to be a TD..... Brian I hear good things about you.... keep up the hard work and things will fall into place.....

Rodger

ps you think that it will ever be possible for all the orgs to work together?

[Robert F]

1.) How much did Chevy profit from your truck sale?
2.)How much did the Chevy dealer profit from the sale?
3.) How much did Ranger profit when you bought your boat?
4.) How much money did Anglers Marine make on your boat?
Brian

GM bailed out by the Feds before they went krupt. Ranger, krupt and bought by an investment company to restructure. Numerous Chevy dealers dumped by the company. Numerous boat and tackle companies closed.

Not one tournament organization has closed since 100 percent. Actually we got new ones in the past years. Why? Because the orgs take a fixed amount of the entry fee BEFORE paying anything back to the angler. What if the Orgs had to pay back a fixed return for my $300? Would they be busted out like Chevy or Ranger who have to provide a specific product for my 50 grand? Could you imagine picking up your new Suburban with no doors because Chevy only sold 17 cars last weekend?

How well do you think the third place on down team is doing in your tournaments?

Not saying the Orgs or TDs are getting rich but they are not thinking about the health of the industry by adding new trails and expanding the schedules under the old model.

BTW, no, John's keys did not get locked in his truck.

[Andy Lippert]

I think I'm gonna start a poll, "Who gives a shat (Saying 'shat' is ok, right, because I swapped out one letter? ) what cooch has to say about American Bass. My guess is, Cooch, you're not going to get too many in favor of wanting to read your incessant rambling and bashing of the circuit because they changed their payback and upped their entry 10 HUGE dollars. Aren't you the one who always crows about going to the source instead of expressing your ill-will on a public forum? All I'm seeing is bitching, bitching, and more bitching. I fished my first ABA last weekend, and it went incredibly well for only drawing the amount of boats that it did. Roger did a great job, and everything ran really smoothly. The fact that you feel the need to come on here and bash a local trail, and from what it sounds like, a friend, is ridiculous and counter-productive to growing tournament bass fishing in Northern California. Nowhere else in the country is there more whining about something so pure, and fun, as there is here in California. Why add to it?

If you don't agree with it, don't give them any of your money. PERIOD. That says enough right there. Keep the whining to yourself.

Andy Lippert

[Cooch]

3 regions averaging 100 boats each is no different than 10 regions averaging 30 boats. It's a wash! Brian

Actually Brian, it's not a wash, but infact a money loosing decission. The math is simple and this is what I don't git with all these org who are in it to make money. Who's doing the accounting?

Plan A:
3 Regions, 6 events = 18 Tournaments, Profit: %F of 1800 Entry fees - Cost of doing busines is $18B
%1800F-$B= $ProfitA

Plan B:
10 Regions, 6 events = 60 tournaments,Profit: %F of 1800 Fees - Cost of doing business is $60B (60/18=3.3)
%1800F-(3.3x$B)= $ProfitB

$ProfitA > $ProfitB

An org can run a 30 boat team tournament on the same costs as a 100 boat tournament. If you have the same number of entrants, the Plan B's costs is gonna be 3.3 times that of plan A, hence Plan B, is a pure losing business plan versus Plan A.

[Cooch]

Here we go with the malcontent, who git's his rocks of pickin a beef with me every two weeks.
Last I knew Andy, Redger Stegal is the TD (Source as you state) of the ABA Delta and I have pointed out my opinions in two threads directly to Rodger. I also had the same discussion with some of the brass up at the TOC at Clearlake. The whining seems to be coming from you, because you don't like to hear what I have to say. Hey, just hit FOE, you'll never have to read a word I type again. Don't think I give a shat if'n ya do.

[rickd]

I was disappointed Roger that you went to a 1:3 payout, but it's not going to stop me from showing up this Saturday.

I hope after this season you change it back to 1:5.

If I spend the time on the water to figure it out I want the most winnings for me, not some dude in 10th that found a few fish.

[Robchik]

I have never been a director for ABA, Anglers Choice or any other circuit. But from my observations, the choice to go to a 1:3 payout was made by the big wigs @ ABA, not the directors themselves. I could be wrong.

[Levy]

Tracy Bass puts on great team events for $120.00/team as well as opens and turkey shoots during the week. Check them out. Low cost entry decent payout for a days fishing.

What he said. I might also add that Tracy Bass is the only low cost circuit I know that offers 100% payback, heck with all of the stuff they give away it is even more. Also Terry and Corine are great folks!!!!

[Trackerbass]

I don't like the 1 in 3 either. I fish to win or at least top 10%. Top 1/3 to get part of my money back doesn't mean anything. I chose to fish ABA this year because of the larger turn outs and the level of competition there. (delta circuit) If the turn out drops and the names don't show, it loses a lot of it's appeal.
Dave Henry

[Mike]

You guys are all fishing for 2nd anyways!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9towKWsoNtE
http://www.rippnlipps.com/

YeeTaDee!

[Phil Burgess]

ha ha ha ha ha ha mike..lmao................

[RipnRog]

I was disappointed Roger that you went to a 1:3 payout, but it's not going to stop me from showing up this Saturday.

I hope after this season you change it back to 1:5.

If I spend the time on the water to figure it out I want the most winnings for me, not some dude in 10th that found a few fish.

I understand Rick... Remember I dont own ABA and it was not my decision. I dont think you will be disappointed if you win... which I know you have a great chance of doing.... see you saturday my friend.....



Rodger

[flipit]

I think with the $20 winner takes all addition the winner will take the same amount of winning or damn close. My partner and I have talked about ABA in the past and its likely that we will fish it next year. Although I have not looked yet, I hate 1 body circuits, so that will also be a factor.
With all the great lakes and Delta in the area Im not sure why nobody has a region that fish's each one just once during the season. There is Berryessa and Folsom, Oroville, Delta, Clear Lake, and New Melones would make a great Nor Cal event calender. If someone does this that where I will fish, wether the pay out is 1 in 10 or 1 in 3. Im more interested in competing in a complete fishing format, besides I find it more fun then fishing just 1 or 2 places.
The first circuit that does this is gonna get great numbers, yet only one has done it(and the numbers are huge). So someone needs to step up with a pro teams circuit. We have the Pro/Ams that do it, and FPT.

Just my no cents

Sean Wayman

[Terry G.]

There are some options available to accommodate the Team's that would like to fish different lakes with-in a Division. A Team can fish one Berryessa, Two Clearlake's, two Oroville, one Delta, a couple of motherloades. Best 7 will automatically accumulate into the choice division.

Or, if you like one lake you can fish it 4 times and pick up the rest by moving around.

However, let me say as the TD of Clearlake, I have read every post and will make adjustments next season.

A/C RULES: 23.) CHOICE DIVISION: Teams may fish an unlimited number of tournaments within a single region in order to qualify in that region’s “ Choice Division “ and for that region’s championship but only their best 7 point events will be calculated toward a championship berth regardless of the number of tournament fished. A team that fishes in 2 or more divisions within a region automatically accumulates points in that region’s “Choice Division”. A team can qualify for a regional championship via more than one-1 division.

[JRS]

what about looking at a model of what works? check out www.basschamps.com ...all you have to do is look at the results of this past season and I think the numbers(turnouts and payback) speak for themselves.

[Robert F]

what about looking at a model of what works? check out http://www.basschamps.com ...all you have to do is look at the results of this past season and I think the numbers(turnouts and payback) speak for themselves.

Is that model move to Texas where houses cost less than cars?

[sTony]

what about looking at a model of what works? check out http://www.basschamps.com ...all you have to do is look at the results of this past season and I think the numbers(turnouts and payback) speak for themselves.

Affordable entries, tournaments spread out real well for the most part, half the entry fee if a junior angler is part of the team. It all looks good. Do we have the anglers that Texas draws? Not likely, but the concepts look to be sound and they're attracting exactly the types of numbers that prove the point; less is more.

sTony

[sTony]

what about looking at a model of what works? check out http://www.basschamps.com ...all you have to do is look at the results of this past season and I think the numbers(turnouts and payback) speak for themselves.

Is that model move to Texas where houses cost less than cars?

Hey Californian's could only learn from Texas. Texas, the last state to enter the depression and the first to come out of it. In Texas, they look at everyhthing we do out here as absolutely strange and often times alien. And they're largely correct.

sTony

[Bill Cook]

Anglers- I have a question, I am about to post a new program I have developed and want some feedback first.... Currently a team can fish a Pro-Teams tournament for $150-$180. Is this not low cost enough? Options are optional. What if you had a basic entry and an all-in option (only)? Is the stigma of not being in the options that big of a deal?

Interested to hear your opinions.

Bill Cook

[Robert F]

Hey Californian's could only learn from Texas. Texas, the last state to enter the depression and the first to come out of it. In Texas, they look at everyhthing we do out here as absolutely strange and often times alien. And they're largely correct.

sTony

To quote my Uncle from Houston, "I heard that". Just not sure that anything that happens back east applies out here. Every garage has a bassboat and I have seen club tournaments that draw 200 boats on Pickwick. There may be aspects that our organizations could learn from other models but the simple fact that you can go to any lake any time of day and drop in your boat with no fee kind of changes a person's mindset on fishing as a mainstream activity.

To answer Bill's question, 150-180 ENTRY sounds like the same ol' same old. And yes, everybody knows the options are the only way you are going to get back anything on your entry. Sounds like nobody is listening. Guys want 20 to 40 buck team events that push the money to the Pro-Ams. Do your 150 entry and you will have the same 17 boat fields that are showing up now.

[sTony]

Anglers- I have a question, I am about to post a new program I have developed and want some feedback first.... Currently a team can fish a Pro-Teams tournament for $150-$180. Is this not low cost enough? Options are optional. What if you had a basic entry and an all-in option (only)? Is the stigma of not being in the options that big of a deal?

Interested to hear your opinions.

Bill Cook

Just my opinion, I'd prefer to see a basic, modest entry fee and big fish and forget about anything else. You set the entry at whatever you want.

Side note: I'd also prefer to at least considering 'not' calling them pro-teams. I don't think most guys fishing 'team tournaments' consider themselves to be 'pros' anyway, and to call them such might be a marketing deal that actually sends a wrong signal as to who your target market would be or is.

sTony

[bryanmc]

Just my opinion, I'd prefer to see a basic, modest entry fee and big fish and forget about anything else. You set the entry at whatever you want.

How about 80 entry + 20 big fish... 100 all in. We all know you won't get rich fishing team tournaments, you shouldn't go broke fishing them either.

[Robchik]

what about looking at a model of what works? check out http://www.basschamps.com ...all you have to do is look at the results of this past season and I think the numbers(turnouts and payback) speak for themselves.

I followed the link and looked at results for the 2/20/10 tournament on Falcon. 41.90 to win 41.90!!!! 24 pounds landed you in the 50's. Thats AWESOME!

How sickening would it be to weigh in 30+ and not get in the top 25?!?!?! Cool, cause i got 30+, but sickening i'm not in the top 25.

The winners took home 20K and ahd 233 boats show up. It looks like they have GREAT sponsor support.

[flipit]

There are some options available to accommodate the Team's that would like to fish different lakes with-in a Division. A Team can fish one Berryessa, Two Clearlake's, two Oroville, one Delta, a couple of motherloades. Best 7 will automatically accumulate into the choice division.

Or, if you like one lake you can fish it 4 times and pick up the rest by moving around.

However, let me say as the TD of Clearlake, I have read every post and will make adjustments next season.

A/C RULES: 23.) CHOICE DIVISION: Teams may fish an unlimited number of tournaments within a single region in order to qualify in that region’s “ Choice Division “ and for that region’s championship but only their best 7 point events will be calculated toward a championship berth regardless of the number of tournament fished. A team that fishes in 2 or more divisions within a region automatically accumulates points in that region’s “Choice Division”. A team can qualify for a regional championship via more than one-1 division.

Yeah I am aware of that option, and if need be thats what Ill do. However lets face it, most of us like the chance to win angler of the year. I prefer that over a travelers/choice deal. I actually did it last year, or somewhat. Problem is its very difficult to keep up on points that way. Or perhaps it was just the circuit I chose to fish.

[Rich hamilton]

Bill,

I hear it LOUD AND CLEAR $100 $100 $100. I think Tony hit it on the head $80 with $20 Big fish. make the side option $1000 if you want or have the guys stop by the local indian casino and put that money on red or black. The idea here is that $100 entry will work!

I think even in this crazy economy most folks could afford $70 each that would cover tournament entry, gas, oil and lake entry.

Is the Td or the organization going to make any money? The answer is no! Look at this like using a defib on the whole tournament scene "shocking" Team fishing back to life. Get rid of the fancy names and call it a derby! Solicit business donations and promise advertising time for them and provide nice trophies!

As the economy wakes up, move the fees and profit up accordingly...

RR

[flipit]

Anglers- I have a question, I am about to post a new program I have developed and want some feedback first.... Currently a team can fish a Pro-Teams tournament for $150-$180. Is this not low cost enough? Options are optional. What if you had a basic entry and an all-in option (only)? Is the stigma of not being in the options that big of a deal?

Interested to hear your opinions.

Bill Cook

I think there are alot of factors to consider(atleast I do) when choosing a circuit. Entry fee is not usually one of them, I say that because most pro teams are roughly the same price. If you gonna do a lower price entry then make it lower. $100 to $120? With options a team can be all in for under $200. Lower cost entry's will only work with increased field numbers. If ya can get a 100 boat field like the WRL and FPT there is a decent reward too invest ratio. Robert mentioned it, people was FLW payouts for $100 entry. $100 entry with 100 boats with options the winner is gonna be somewhere around $3500

[flipit]

Bill,

I hear it LOUD AND CLEAR $100 $100 $100. I think Tony hit it on the head $80 with $20 Big fish. make the side option $1000 if you want or have the guys stop by the local indian casino and put that money on red or black. The idea here is that $100 entry will work!

I think even in this crazy economy most folks could afford $70 each that would cover tournament entry, gas, oil and lake entry.

Is the Td or the organization going to make any money? The answer is no! Look at this like using a defib on the whole tournament scene "shocking" Team fishing back to life. Get rid of the fancy names and call it a derby! Solicit business donations and promise advertising time for them and provide nice trophies!

As the economy wakes up, move the fees and profit up accordingly...

RR

I agree with this, only to be honest I would rather get some magazine coverage instead of trophy's.(easier to save and store, also great for sponsors) Ive tossed boxes of old plaques recently. Save the trophy for a TOC winner and talk to Pringle about his TOC trophy;s, now those were some sweet bragging pieces.

[Brian Ruthman]

I asked some people i know why they dont want to fish the Pro team events , and what they basically told me was they are tired of donating their money to a select few teams most of the time , so they fish the WRL and FPT , 5 or 6 teams that consistently win.
So i asked , what because these few teams put in the time on the water to be good your not going to fish against them ? And the reply was , that is it . They are not going to work all week long then show up Saturday and donate their money to someone that has been on the lake all week long .
So from what i can gather it is not so much the cost of the tourneys , it is they feel that while they are at work 5 days a week others get to pre-fish and that is an unfair advantage , so right off the bat they feel they are fishing for 5th , 6th place or further down , which is usually just out of the money .
I know i have felt this way before going into a tournament when im at work all week long and i pass guys coming back from the lake while i have been at work all day , i see it alot and those are the guys who are at the top . Do i blame them for being able to take off ? Heck no that is great they have jobs that allow that , so i can imagine how some teams feel showing up to compete when they see the same thing .
I dont know what the answers are , i have wanted offlimits before and suggested it once at a Nor-Cal TOC meeting and got shot down real fast , no one would even listen to what i had to say .
I guess you can adjust how many teams are paid back and lower the entry fees to make it not feel as bad when you donate your money , but this isnt the real answer to the problem either . When i show up im there to win , and win big for 1st place , im not there to make the rest of the field feel good because they got part of the money that was spread down the field with a 1 in 3 payback .
I would like to see some of the Delta guys who are great fishermen come over to the Motherload circuits and see just how good they really are , maybe team up and fish the ABA or Nor-Cal Bass circuit . Maybe that would bring up the numbers in our area . I have seen Jim Davis , and Sean Stafford fish some Motherload events but where are the rest of the guys who are on the top 40 angler list ? Set an example and maybe others will follow your lead .
Im not sure what the answer is to fixing it all , but i do know separating anglers into different leagues is not the answer , or lowering the fees , or paying down the field more , it just makes some feel a little better for a short time .

[JRS]

Brian, don't know if you followed that link to www.basschamps.com, but they have a 5 day off-limit. Seems to work for them. They also limit "pro's" and guides, along with a lie detector. Seems to work for them! But hey,here in Texas don't even bother whining like a b!tch,cause it'll just fall on deaf ears. "If you don't like it fish something else" that's the GREAT thing about Texas....NO B.S.!!!!!!!!!

[flipit]

Brian, don't know if you followed that link to http://www.basschamps.com, but they have a 5 day off-limit. Seems to work for them. They also limit "pro's" and guides, along with a lie detector. Seems to work for them! But hey,here in Texas don't even bother whining like a b!tch,cause it'll just fall on deaf ears. "If you don't like it fish something else" that's the GREAT thing about Texas....NO B.S.!!!!!!!!!

That another great idea and one Ive been hoping for, off limits. You would be suprised how many WRL and FPT guys are on the water all week. Even if I had the time I dont see it as being cost efective. I like an off limits period, say m-t.

[Brian Linehan]

Holy ****. Now we're talking off limits. Where's the Xanax? lol

[Brian Ruthman]

Hey John it is nice to hear from you . Im glad your giving us a take on what works in Texas , some might not know that your from California so it is good to hear from someone who has fished both places .
What i posted is what i was told by fellow anglers that i talked to in my area (Motherload region) which i know you use to fish before moving to Texas , i dont know what works or what has been done in other areas of the state .
I just thought some would like to know what i was told , the post started about the low turnout at the first Ac team tourney of the year . I personally dont want to fish when 11 boats show up , it is not worth showing up for . By the end of the season what will you have 4 teams left ?
I guess you could look at it this way , if you fish all of the events in the region no matter how bad you do , if the other teams miss one event you might get angler of the year ...........LOL !!

[JRS]

Hey Brian,I hear ya. I'm just passin' along what I see working down here...It's funny lookin' back at all the BS that goes on there in kali. It's real simple over here. You don't like somethin... don't fish it!!! I guess the best part of fishn down here is that on some of the lakes that have slot limits, you're thrown back fish that would win most tourneys back in the motherlode circuits If you ever head out this way give me a call(my number is still the same) and we'll hit the water. see ya