A question of business ethics

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Brian
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Brian »

I'm not sure everyone gets what "some" of the ANGLERS THAT FISHED THE CIRCUIT are upset about. The ones that I know are upset that the Qualification rules got changed after the season started......

THEY DON'T GIVE A RATS A$$ WHO FISHED THE EVENTS. MM OR OTHER WISE.....
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by lunker punker »

Rick G wrote:For some reason Vince you seem to think I have it out for Mark which I dont. I support A/C and have for years. If Bob T did the same thing I would question him also. All of the Tournament Org's, tackle shops, bassboat dealers are in this business together. We all want it to see it get better, and that is the reason I care, period. No more no less.
Please explain further so I can fully understand your feelings,stance,opinion,or whatever. I f I were in your shoes i would come up with a creative thread to sell more Champions,Rangers,and Nitros. The outcome would be better for sure. :P Well hopefully you would sell more Champions. :P
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Vince Borges »

For some reason Vince you seem to think I have it out for Mark which I dont. I support A/C and have for years. If Bob T did the same thing I would question him also. All of the Tournament Org's, tackle shops, bassboat dealers are in this business together. We all want it to see it get better, and that is the reason I care, period. No more no less.
I couldn't agree more Rick, This economy has been ruff on all of us involved in the fishing industry. What I don't understand is how you feel coming in here on a public forum and complaining about a competitors business ethics is going to change or help the situation. When someone posts something negative about a person or a product it usually doesn't come across as "I CARE" For people who are just starting out in this business all it does is put questions in there heads about the industry and the people they respect that are involved in it. If you truly had no ulterior motive than to start to sling crap on someones name, than you would have left this OFF a public forum and called the individual to express your feelings or concerns about the situation, or that you think it would help the org if he didn't fish. I know you are a guy that really cares about the fishing industry, but your not alone, we all care. I would love to see an org start to draw 150 boats again. I try and stay upbeat and positive when I talk to the great people, tournament organizers, and volunteers, that put hours of there time into making the sport better for all involved. Personally, in this down economy, with less dollars being spent in the fishing industry, I see NO room for negativity. I wish you the best, and hope you sell 100 boats this year. Just try to be a little more positive when questioning ANYBODIES ethics!!
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Rick G »

Anglers Marine supports all levels of bassfishing from Joes to pro's. We have for going on 32 years now. We can either all grow together as a sport, dealers, org's, tackle mfg's big and small, or see it all keep going down. Customer service is what will save those that feel its importance. We all in this industry have to police ourselfs for our own good. Sometime that means having an opinion, like it or not. I wish all the Org's nothing but the best, and down here this year I have fished them ALL. Hope that explains my position LP.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Terry G. »

Hypothetical, or is it?: Let's say a customer wants to start fishing bass tournaments. Rick sells him an 18 foot Ranger with a 150HP and two 125 Lowrance's. Basically entry level stuff. Shakes his hand and gives him the DVL schedule and says enjoy! The customer arrives at DVL for his very first tournament. Then one of the Grovers show up with top of the line everything. One of the Grovers then blast's off leaving the customer bouncing around like a ten cent bobber. Then at the end of the tournament one of the Grover's walks up and collects 1st place money. Then repeat the next month. What chance did Rick's customer have with his entry level rig? None! I guess business ethics are different down south where ethical standards are determined by the one throwing the biggest rock. It is what it is. It's definitely an interesting customer service concept though?

The only real legitimate bit#h I've read came from Kevin Stewart; and, he voiced his complaint and thoughts face to face to A/C staff. The 3 Pro-Am's and TOC concept is a great idea. Furthermore, in the future, A/C would greatly benefit by utilizing the advisory board if changes are needed, or made during the season. OK..good idea...let's move on and go fishing!

Best advice award goes to Vince Borges.To R.G. "What I don't understand is how you feel coming in here on a public forum and complaining about a competitors business ethics is going to change or help the situation."

OMG Levy!!! You just bought a new Champion. Go fishing! What do you do all day? Stay home and think of ways to blame Mark M. for everything that's eventually going to break on your new boat. Geeesh!!! Get a life!!

Dobyns has the right idea: less whining and more working together. We all need the boats.
Last edited by Terry G. on Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by lunker punker »

[quote="Rick G"]Anglers Marine supports all levels of bassfishing from Joes to pro's. We have for going on 32 years now. We can either all grow together as a sport, dealers, org's, tackle mfg's big and small, or see it all keep going down. Customer service is what will save those that feel its importance. We all in this industry have to police ourselfs for our own good. Sometime that means having an opinion, like it or not. I wish all the Org's nothing but the best, and down here this year I have fished them ALL. Hope that explains my position LP.[/quote


That didnt clarify much Rick............
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Kyle »

Terry.
That comparison is ridiculous and nowhere near one in the same. Plus no passing allowed on the way to the first spot. :D
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Terry G. »

Kyle,

No more ridiculous then calling someone an unethical businessman because he fishes his own tournaments. I just think that was bit harsh. And, you're right...no passing in the 5 mph zone. It would be shortly after that then. :D
Kyle,
I don't know you; but, You've apparently worked hard at becoming a good stick.Keep whacking 'em and keep getting better. And, maybe by working together we can get those boat numbers back to 300. We surely won't get'em back by talking smack to each other.

BTW: Levy..Champion boats are one of the best made rigs for sure. I meant no disrespect towards your boat .......not real sure what your core issues are. Really, it's none of my business. Just try and be part of the solution in an industry that's currently on life support.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by jsoregon »

Pass the popcorn Brian Day. This is getting good... :lol:
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Ringer »

I seem to remember driving my Champion all the way to Vegas and paying to fish a tournament where the biggest dealer had his kid paired up with a local pro to pick my bones. I never expected to win a thing on a lake I never fished yet it was OK with me that they fished as a team of experts on the lake against a bunch of regular Champion owners. If the tournament owner cheated that is one thing but if he won fair and you just don't like that he fished then don't fish his circuit.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Kyle »

Ur 100 percent right ringer. I fished that tournament since I was 10 and won it the last two times they had it. My name is on the titles of the boats we used making me able to fish. But the difference is those were family events held to be 100 percent for fun and a good time. And the main reason anyone went was because the main prize, a boat, was up for anyone to win reguardless of weather you caught a fish during the day or not. And every year my number was never in the hat to have a shot to get on stage and play the games. And neither were any employees. Can you imagine if I went up on the stage and won one of those boats? Or trucks? Pandamonium that's what would happen. You don't think my dad wanted to fish the iron man event he put on at DV?? Or the won bass pro am he was the main sponsor for?? Dude was twitchn for months bummed he couldn't be in them. And he didn't to avoid a situation like this one. It looks bad.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Ringer »

Kyle-I had no problem with you fishing the event but to me it is the same gripe as fishing a tournament where the local pro wins 60% of all the tourneys. Eventually even dimwits like me figure out they are just donating sucker money so we give up fishing tournaments entirely. In this economy we all make choices and if we don't like the rules we don't fish the circuit any longer. I think that applies here and the choice is to not complain but just don't fish the event if you don't like the setup. I am surprised any circuits are doing well in this crappy economy. Wish you the best.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Kyle »

I think u nailed it right on the head ring. Same guys winning all the derbys so no one shows up. Perfect example is the so cal regions. No more mike hart, way higher percentage of field in the derbys. Brian Linehans A.C. events are drawing over 30 boats which is WAY higher than last year. I think its because mike is gone. Plus Brian is great eye candy after a long day on the water. :D
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by mark poulson »

Kyle wrote:I think u nailed it right on the head ring. Same guys winning all the derbys so no one shows up. Perfect example is the so cal regions. No more mike hart, way higher percentage of field in the derbys. Brian Linehans A.C. events are drawing over 30 boats which is WAY higher than last year. I think its because mike is gone. Plus Brian is great eye candy after a long day on the water. :D
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Re: Rick!!

Post by Dewayne »

How is this different than FLW where the circuit has a vested interest in seeing their "team" anglers do well to keep the circuits sponsors happy? That situation has bothered me far more over the years than Mark fishing the tournaments run by his organization. And yes, I have fished AC Pro/Ams and been beat my Mark. Having watched it very closely I saw nothing to be concerned about. He knows clear Lake well in the post spawn. It tends to be pretty predictable once you figure it out.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by sker13 »

I won't get into the ethics part....But, any idiot with half a friggin brain in his head could see this coming from a mile away. Why not save yourself and your organization the head ache. Just not smart IMO. Changing the rules mid season on who gets in the TOC or letting in boats that didn't qualify fish, (WON) is never a good deal. Never. MM obviously has more than half a brain so I don't know why this isn't clear to him.

As for rigged AAA draws. There have been some that have been painfully obvious. The first one that comes to mind is Ms. TC sports in the now defunct again West Coast Bass.
Last edited by sker13 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question of business ethics

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Vince Borges wrote:Again people should get facts correct! The change to the TOC was made after the first Northern event based on the fact that the second southern event still was not drawing boats! It was made to try and help the few so-cal anglers that did fish and support AC qualify for the hold out money. It was changed well before the second Northern event took place! So your saying that he changed it to benefit himself after one event means the man can see into the future! :lol: It may have not been the right decision to make that change, and not everybody would agree with it. Sometimes trying to be fair bites you in the buttoz!! He still had to fish like everyone else! He still payed his three entries!! And he still kicked our arsses out there! Like he knew when he made the change that he wouldn't have qualified anyways!! Congrats to Mark for spending 7 days pre-fishing for this event, and executing a well fished event!! I roomed with Mark for this event, he made a change to his game plan Saturday night and it was the right decision! Sometimes you take chances and they work, sometimes they don't!
Very well said.. A/C has a advisory board and I am sure they were involoved in making these changes.. I would hope so anyway..

Has far a Mark fishing his own events.. sure why not.. he has no other advantange than anyone else as long as he pays his money, has nothing to do with the tournament..i.e. weight fish, drawning start spots, partners ect ect.. which he doesn't.. and as a owner he (well the comapny anyway) does get a little bit of every entry fee with the balance going to the anglers and tournament director..so it is like he gets a little kick back from his entry so what.. but I'm ok with that, he is a heck of a great guy doing a whole lot for the bass fishing community..

Bassfishermen are sure a funny bunch of guys... :roll: :roll:
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Paul Matthews »

If my memory serves me right didn't Mark buy A/C when it was on life support because he liked fishing the circuits? A lot of people stood up and clapped when he stepped up. Also buisness ethics. That is in the eye of the beholder. A sound busines decision that doesn't favor the customer, well you get the picture. I seemed to recall when Anglers was the only game in town back in early 90's when their customer service wasn't high on a lot of guys list.. Rick, you need to carfully consider your remarks. Everbody has skeletons. Why do you think I bought a Ranger in 1990 and not a Champion. Come to think of it the grandson of the founder of Champion fishing in a Champion boat owners tourny. A lot can be said for that also. My point being that no matter what some people do there will always be criticsm. You being in the position that you are in should understand that more than the rest of us. Enough said.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Wolfeman »

Every time I start thinking that I might want to get into tournament fishing a thread like this pops up, and makes me realize I like 'fun fishing' just fine.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Ray Coleman »

Very interesting post, Personally i see nothing wrong with MM fishing as long as entries weren't comp'ed and as far as i can tell they were not. Truthfully, I like having passionate guys like Mendez AND Grover in the industry. They both have added there influence to West Coast Bass Fishing. I fish AC teams (not Pro/Ams) and have never bought a boat from Anglers so I am an interested bystander. If in the future and i am able, I will fish the A/C Pro/Ams and buy a boat from Anglers BECAUSE of their commitment to fishing in the West.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by g-man »

Between this topic, and the AC boat winners having problems getting their boat thread (CB), plus the 6 fish in the livewell thread!?!? Thats quite a rap sheet...

True, or not theres a lot of negativity when the MM name comes up on the forums. Hell, their starting to make the negative FPT posts look positive... :lol:
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by ash »

Gary Dobyns wrote:Guys right now we should want every boat we can get, period. Our Pro-Ams are doing terrible in the west, all of them. The participation numbers suck. Mendez had a great tournament and paid an entry fee. I wish he was a 10% owner with 9 partners and they all fished. We need numbers. He has nothing to do with running the event, just fishes. I know Rick G. does not agree, okay, that's Rick's opinion and choice. It's America !!
The way I remember the change of the TOC is as follows. After the first event several of us voiced concern over the change from the previous 2 years that seemed to be working and growing. Somehow it got changed and the advisory board was not used. Basically, the advisory board did not have input. The change was made after the first event with 2 remaining, Delta and Clear Lake. I'm talking North because I honestly did not know what was going on in the South.

The hold out money is to try and reward the anglers following the circuit. Most of you can't seem to realize that fisherman that only fish one lake are killing our sport. What is wrong with thinking out of the box to try and get participation ? Someone has to try something different because right now nothing is working.

I do not think a change should be made after the start of a season. But so what? Every fisherman that fished Oroville would have anyway. If you didn't fish Oroville, you didn't have a dog in the fight.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Levy »

g-man wrote:Between this topic, and the AC boat winners having problems getting their boat thread (CB), plus the 6 fish in the livewell thread!?!? Thats quite a rap sheet...

True, or not theres a lot of negativity when the MM name comes up on the forums. Hell, their starting to make the negative FPT posts look positive... :lol:
G-Man you are exactly right but you left off a few things. How can we forget the basstrix scam, the issues with Basswest and its delivery time, as well as the rip off of the clear lake tackle shop owner.

I still can't figure out why people continue to support this man who is simply a cancer to our sport. The writting has been on the wall for over 5 years now and it only gets worse every month.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by stickbait »

ash wrote:
Gary Dobyns wrote:Guys right now we should want every boat we can get, period. Our Pro-Ams are doing terrible in the west, all of them. The participation numbers suck. Mendez had a great tournament and paid an entry fee. I wish he was a 10% owner with 9 partners and they all fished. We need numbers. He has nothing to do with running the event, just fishes. I know Rick G. does not agree, okay, that's Rick's opinion and choice. It's America !!
The way I remember the change of the TOC is as follows. After the first event several of us voiced concern over the change from the previous 2 years that seemed to be working and growing. Somehow it got changed and the advisory board was not used. Basically, the advisory board did not have input. The change was made after the first event with 2 remaining, Delta and Clear Lake. I'm talking North because I honestly did not know what was going on in the South.

The hold out money is to try and reward the anglers following the circuit. Most of you can't seem to realize that fisherman that only fish one lake are killing our sport. What is wrong with thinking out of the box to try and get participation ? Someone has to try something different because right now nothing is working.

I do not think a change should be made after the start of a season. But so what? Every fisherman that fished Oroville would have anyway. If you didn't fish Oroville, you didn't have a dog in the fight.
I just seen this post by Gary.. if the advisory board was not used that's a big mistake on the management of A/C.. IMO.. it is always better to have any discussions and or changes made by many people i.e the advisory board.. takes the point of aim off one guy...Mark. And if it would have been used we would not be having this thread.

Even though with a change made after just one tournament in the interest of all anglers is ok in my books.. now if things were changed at or near the end of the season like FPT did last year, thats not right.. period!
Last edited by stickbait on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Andrew Jackson »

...and this is why I don't post here anymore...some people just don't get it or can't.

Get em Rick
Last edited by Andrew Jackson on Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by sgvangler »

Every time I start thinking that I might want to get into tournament fishing a thread like this pops up, and makes me realize I like 'fun fishing' just fine.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Old dog »

I want to thank everyone for keeping this civil (for the most part). The simple truth for me, after fishing tournaments for over 30 years, is pick the circuit that has the best payback and is well run. If events like this happen you have to decide if they outweigh the good that the organization does. Changing the rules after a season has started is just wrong. You have am advisory committe and you don't use them to help with a decision that helps you qualify for a TOC, is wrong. If you did it for other reasons, but in the end it qualified you for the TOC, the smart thing would not have been to fish. We are talking about a rule change, that benefited the one in charge, more than anyone else. Bottom line, weigh the good against the bad, for me this tips the scales and I will be looking for a new organization.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Andrew Jackson »

So ALL OF YOU that have no issues with the owners and TD's fishing their own tournaments I want to see YOU ALL at Lake Havasu putting up your entry fees and fishing a new circuit hosted, ran, owned and directed by a top team in the region. There will be seven events for the season....yeah I didn't think so.........
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by DeltaBound »

How would you guys like it if Rick won the big prize at his Bassathon event?
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by mark poulson »

DeltaBound wrote:How would you guys like it if Rick won the big prize at his Bassathon event?
Like I said earlier, it was a dumb move by a smart man.
In show business, the saying is, "There is no such thing as bad publicity".
Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to tournament fishing.
He should have thought this one through better.
Last edited by mark poulson on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Andrew Jackson »

So now we get censored for using names on here and not in a bad way. This site, as stated previously, just aint what it used to be.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by sTony »

Andrew Jackson wrote:So now we get censored for using names on here and not in a bad way. This site, as stated previously, just aint what it used to be.

I see where you've edited your own post but I don't see where anyone else did.

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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by ash »

Andrew - I PMd you as to what was going on and provided you my cell number if you want to talk - One can never win when trying to do what is best for this community -keep it positive and get blasted - let it go and get blasted WGAF names were edited and you can re-edit your quote as you originally typed it - just know that I was trying to keep a flame war from happening as I wrote to you, instead you reverse the heat and create a flame war on me and the site - so i guess my spidy sense was correct in that regard.

Whatever the case may be Im going fishing on the River for two days - enjoy
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by sTony »

I can say this and anyone who's done the job knows of what I speak, moderating a forum sucks; there's no ifs, ands or buts about it. No matter what you do or don't do, someone is going to get offended, upset, get their underwear in a bunch or worse. And when they do, they'll take it out on the site and its moderators, which is really just subjecting the users to worse yet.

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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by tbob »

Tony

I guess that explains why you got out of the buisiness. Hopefully Wayne, John Cooch and the others feel differently about it, or they are in the wrong busienss. Seems like fun to me.
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by g-man »

Never really got why people get upset about their posts getting deleted. You make an iffy post you should expect a possible edit, or deletion. If it makes your job easier you can delete any of my posts without a second thought about it! :D
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by elfish16 »

g-man wrote:Never really got why people get upset about their posts getting deleted. You make an iffy post you should expect a possible edit, or deletion. If it makes your job easier you can delete any of my posts without a second thought about it! :D
"CHUCKLES" :lol:

Hey, deletion or editing will happen, it is what it is. I like to speak the truth myself, hard to swallow or not. No tip toeing around it for me.

I posted my honest beliefs on SBN about a swimbait topic two weeks ago and got physical threats PM'd to me by different guys! And the moderators did nothing but tell me to get over it. I think the moderators here do a pretty good job, despite some things here and there. LOL.

This topic is touchy for sure. I for one have no issue with teams fishing derbies they put on and/or are a part of. Changing rules after season starts is wrong! Looks at what happened to Skeet last two years...got SHAFTED after insane seasons to not be awarded the AOY awards. But the changes weren't made halfway through or whatever to satisfy some person or group of people.

If you want the rules to change, wait the season out and change them next year. i don't want to be some EXCEPTION to the rule when qualifying for TOC's and such. However the rules might be, it is what it is. If I can't qualify based on the rules before the season and once it starts, well I guess I sucked or blew it!

I have fished AC derbies where other regions TD's fished and I don't mind...its all fun!
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by ash »

g-man wrote:Never really got why people get upset about their posts getting deleted. You make an iffy post you should expect a possible edit, or deletion. If it makes your job easier you can delete any of my posts without a second thought about it! :D


In the words of the late great Hunter S Thompson -
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. The others--the living--are those who pushed their control as far as they felt they could handle it, and then pulled back, or slowed down, or did whatever they had to when it came time to choose between Now and Later. But the edge is still Out there. Or maybe it's In." -Hunter S. Thompson

Sometimes we find the edge - G man has a great attitude he knows that he takes great pride in finding the edge and knowing that there will be an affect - it aint personal - :wink:
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Rich hamilton
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:19 pm

Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Rich hamilton »

What is the name of the fish that eats their own?

I sure wish you folks would focus on the problems at hand in the fishing industry and leave all the other stuff alone. Let Mark fish, let Rick sell boats and listen to what Dobyn's is trying to tell you folks.

My daughter just graduated from the Hass business school @ Berkeley. I know something about business. I know that we are not focusing on improving our passion and love for this sport. We are too busy eating our own...
If I don't meet you no more in this world Then I'll see you in the next one. Don't be late... Don't be late... Stevie Ray/Hendrix
Old dog
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:56 pm

Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Old dog »

This would make us all happy. Someone should start a circuit with 100% payback, but they would have to work their *** to get sponsors to pay an expense fee. This fee would cover the costs of the event and put a few dollars of profit in their pocket. They might have to drop the 100% to 95% to cover their insurance premium, but the payback would still be 20-30% higher than anybody else. OH WAIT A MINUTE SOMEBODY DID THAT AND WE STILL WEREN!T HAPPY!
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sker13
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by sker13 »

What Org are you referring to? 100% BASS?
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calfisher71
Posts: 545
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by calfisher71 »

Many Anglers in this state do what they do because they love fishing. Lets first understand that. Yes its a business and yes PROFIT is the #1 reason someone is in any business.

Keep in mind these are Pro-am events we are talking about they have many bites from the back of the boat count in a 2 day event.
Most likely a fish or 2 came from his co-angler.

He is a Pro level angler fishing against Pro Level Anglers. Im not his freind in fact barely know the guy.

But opens are opens that means everyone is well "open" to fish it.

The guy is good on both Clear Lake and the Delta, I dont know of his angling skills on other lakes.

Bottom line if he paid and he caught em he's a Pro level Angler he won!


Congrats to him for winning!

Im focussed on being a better angler and preparing to try to beat him on Clear Lake!
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Old dog
Posts: 170
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Old dog »

Our problem for most of us is not that he fished. Our problem is over the years some very questionable events have occured. The newest being changing the rules for a series after it has started, without consulting your highly promoted advisory committee. A committee you formed to handle issues just like this. I thank Gary D. for letting us know they weren't consulted, that made a huge difference for me. This change benefitted one person more than anyone else and I assume he was the one that ordered it. NOW, if he wasn't the one that decided to make the change someone in the organization needs to let us know that, as it would make a huge difference in how I feel about it. I assume someone from AC would have let us know that by now, if that was the case.
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swimbait
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by swimbait »

This post is hilarious. The issue is really simple. Think about it like this:

Tournament bass fishing is legalized gambling. The organizations and their owners like Mark are the "house". The fishermen are the gamblers.

When the owners of the "house" gamble at their own table, it creates a perceived conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how ethical the "house" is, the perception is there. Nothing can change the perception.

If the "house" wants give the appearance of being ethical, the house should never gamble at it's own table.

Mark chooses to gamble at his own table. So people think it's unethical. No amount of assurances otherwise will ever change that perception. You guys trying to change the perception are wasting your time. You won't change people's minds. It's human nature :)
mark poulson
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by mark poulson »

swimbait wrote:This post is hilarious. The issue is really simple. Think about it like this:

Tournament bass fishing is legalized gambling. The organizations and their owners like Mark are the "house". The fishermen are the gamblers.

When the owners of the "house" gamble at their own table, it creates a perceived conflict of interest. It doesn't matter how ethical the "house" is, the perception is there. Nothing can change the perception.

If the "house" wants give the appearance of being ethical, the house should never gamble at it's own table.

Mark chooses to gamble at his own table. So people think it's unethical. No amount of assurances otherwise will ever change that perception. You guys trying to change the perception are wasting your time. You won't change people's minds. It's human nature :)
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longshot
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:57 pm

Re: A question of business ethics

Post by longshot »

Well we all agree changing the rules in a tourmament format anytime after the start of the season is wrong and esp. Not to use an advisory committee when you have one.
To fish in your own event will always rub a percent of people wrong and in business it's just plain dumb to do. Bad bad business decision wether you think it's ok someone else won't.
We really are at each others throats all the time because there isn't enough money to go round and everyone is trying to get by.
There are allot of events that draw big numbers so the players are out there and want to play but the bs just doesn't make it fun anymore.
flipit
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Re: A question of business ethics

Post by flipit »

What is most disturbing about this question? The fact that it was only asked after he won the bonus money. The tournaments his money was being donated and won by others there was nothing being said. My .02 cents is if he is paying his entry he has a right to fish. He owns the circuit, but as I understand it he does not run these events, he is another customer.
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619
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:50 am

Re: A question of business ethics

Post by 619 »

I have asked everyone I know that fishes tournaments and everyone doesn't like it. They even brought up two other instances where tournament Directors/Owners fished there own events and won the events. NO GOOD.

The numbers are down at all events. If you lose one person due to issues like this then it's no good. I hear guys saying I'm done with so and so because they changed a date of a tournament or they let someone break a lake rule during a tournament or a tournament rule and didn't enforce it.

Looks like we lost a few guys here. So is it worth it? I say no!!
Kevin
Posts: 1885
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 10:52 pm

Re: A question of business ethics

Post by Kevin »

Swimbait, very well played. You hit the nail completely on the head.
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