ISE Sacramento changes?

[GrantOlguin]

I arrived at the ISE sacramento this year for the first time in 3 years. Usually the East entrance is full of House boats, RVs camp trialers etc. This year it was a ghost town. The only display was a wood carving tent. This is bad.

The past few years we have lost the Fred Hall show at the Cow palace, and the San Mateo ISE show. These shows that have closed all had low attendance then low vendor turnout. Then they were gone. There seems to be a similiar situation here.

I spoke with some people that had not attended this years event and they had the same response. Its the same old show. Nothing new. Yes, they are correct. My feeling is that if major changes are not made we may not see this show in the near future. This show is needed for many reasons such as promoting the interest in the outdoors/fishing. This show is needed for the youth to learn about the outdoors and help promote the future of the sport. For families to walk around the show together and enjoy the attractions. With the other shows in the bay area extinct. The Sacramento ISE is our only venue left.

The earlier shows had every boat manufacturer with show specials, giant rod and reel manufacturer displays, house boats, RVs, Etc. We really can't blame the low attendance and vendor turnout on the economy. People are still enjoying the outdoors. People want to go to these shows to see something different. Maybe make a purchase on a show special. This show also helps promote the small manufacturers by displaying their new product or by having sales promotions. This inturn helps the small tackle shops sell the product throughout the year.

While working at shows around the country I have noticed the Southern shows are jammed with attendees daily. There are lines down the street to get in hours before the show. The Southern shows have more youths and families than I see here. The shows have numerous floors with displays and vendors. My point is what are we doing wrong?

My opinion is The ISE needs to look to bring in more attractions, bigger names on the tank, Educate the vendors on promoting their booth by having giveaways, raffles, show specials etc. Take a look at the Anglers marine Bass A thon. they have finest two day show in the west. Anglers marine brings in Classic winners, Fishing show hosts. Top lure designers like Jerry Rago for lectures. These are attractions that will get people off the couch and into the show.

Please feel free to speak your opinion on some changes. Let me know what you think can be done to bring this show back to where it was. I would like to present the responses to the ISE management.


Grant
Black Dog Baits

[kb]

Grant upon reading your post all I could say was WOW! I don’t even really know where to begin but let me give it a try. If you haven’t noticed the majority of the boat and RV dealers are either gone, don’t have the lines they used to or are hanging on by their fingernails. If you went to the show to shop for a bass boat there were displays from Ranger, Stratos, Nitro, Tracker, Triton, Crestliner, Phoenix and a few more. Each of these companies offered extended warranties, rebates, show specials and incentives, special financing rates and product giveaways.

There were booths from all the major manufacturers like Shimano, Daiwa, Pure Fishing, Okuma, Dobyns, Phenix, Lamiglas, St. Croix, Minn Kota/Humminbird, Lowrance, Costa, P-line, Seeker and a few I am sure I didn’t see.

I also work shows across the country Grant and this one is one of the largest attended and ISE spends more money in advertising and promoting this show than every western show promoter combined and with over 600 exhibitors and 1100 booths this show is strong and sold out by November each year. ISE does its best to get all the displays indoors and to be honest with you outside displays in January are tough and with the forecasted weather of last week many of the outdoor guys chose not to show. With the exception of the California State Fair the ISE show is the largest event to come to Cal Expo each year.

There were more places to get discount coupons than ever before and a social coupon site that offered two for one entry as well.

The ISE show is not just a bass fishing show it is an outdoor show but I have been responsible for the ISE bass program for over 20 years and last year at the show you missed two Classic Champions Skeet and Jay Yelas and we have in the past booked the big TV stars and quite frankly they didn’t pull the numbers that our local pro’s do. The attendees wanted to hear from the guys that fish on the waters they fish and that is what we bring them. This year you had the FLW Everstart Angler of the Year, BASS Central Open Angler of the Year and #1 rated California Pro according to George Kramer, WON Bass Angler of the Year and Daiwa Cup Champion, West all time leading money winner and few more like Barrack, Pringle, Tosh, Edwards and a few more.

I tried to book Skeet but he had a family obligation out of town, Cody Meyer was supposed to be in Florida but his plans changed and he made an appearance on Friday, Jared Lintner was in Florida for the PAA, Ish was headed to Florida, Brent Ehrler was unavailable, Mike Reynolds was there one day to announce his new Ranger sponsorship but his Grandma’s health keeps Mike close to home, John Murray was there but was unsure of his attendance at the time of scheduling.

The youth???? Did you make it over to the WON Youth Fair where there were wall to wall kids, free raffles, catch and release pond and tons of activities. Did you know that at all ISE shows kids under 16 are FREE!!!!!

I guess I would have to ask why this is your first trip to the show in three years as the owner of a major western lure company? If you want to make the shows bigger and better and offer something to the attendees you need to quit poaching booth space in a retail area and calling your card table display a booth. Bring some never before seen colors, new products or hot buys on discontinued stuff to generate interest. I can’ t recall ever seeing Black Dog Baits with a show booth in the good times or the bad. I only saw you one day and I am not sure if you came to any other days but when you go up against playoff football and one of the teams is the 49ers you are going to see an impact on the attendance that day, Sunday’s crowd was still pretty good but did die off about game time…..we expected it!

Does Black Dog Bait Co. have a webpage, facebook or email mailing list that you used to promote interest in the show? I doubt it since the last news posting on blackdogbaits.com was December 27, 2010 and your facebook page has had two posts since Christmas and one was a customer complimenting you on his purchase of two custom Punkers at the ISE show!!!!!!! Your last post before this one on WB.com was November 6th..... Maybe some excitement from companies like BDB might generate some show buzz!!!

Can the show improve? Yes without a doubt but I like many of the exhibitors and attendees thought it was a great show this year, lots of new stuff and if you missed it you missed out. We hope to see you next year.

Kent Brown

[Revoke36]

I only have one complaint about the ISE show; there were too many people! I parked a mile away. I had to wait in long lines to purchase my arm full of tackle. My kid had to wait forever to drop a line in the trout pond. And honestly, I was disappointed that Black Dog Baits didn't have a booth so I left the show with a lil extra money. I wish they did the show twice a year cuz there were some smokin deals. Just sayin. Great job Kent.

[GrantOlguin]

Thanks for the reply. This post was an observation.There is no reason to take it personal. This is an open forum isn't it? I decided to last minute to work the show. I arrived on friday afternoon. Yes, I did work through a retailer Bass Tackle Depot. All manufacturers work through the retailer to promote the product and support the retailer. This helps bring down the cost of the space for all involved. Remember with out retailers at the show there would be no tank and no position for you. And yes it has been 3 years since I had been at this show. The past few years I had pro staff running the booth. With numerous show around the country I can't make all the shows.

Again, this was an observation to improve the ISE show. I asked for suggestions from members. The diminishing vendors worried me because I don't want to see this show go as the case of San mateo and San francisco. I don't appreciate the Black Dog Baits bashing of our Facebook and website. Our sites are not designed to promote the ISE. Thats your job. I was suprised that someone at your level would show this much lack of professionalism.

My observation at this show was a few guys on the tank had the same lecture that I heard the last time was working the show. As you know in this industry if your not innovating or creating something new for the outdoorsman your company will fade away. People want to see new ideas and hear new ideas to improve their hobby. Lets bring back the old ISE. Lets bring in guys like Jerry Rago, Butch Brown, Matt Allen, Ken Huddleston, Rafael Rossi, Roland
Martin. Guys who have created and made a difference our industry. Guys that can explain how to really improve your catch by using moon phases, and techniques that have been proven. Lets get rid of the logs in the tank so guys can properly fish the Huddleston on the bottom, or Have jerry rago throw his BVD or SKT swimmers that have won hundreds of thousand of dollars in last years Elite series. I am sure other rod and lure manufacturers will agree. Although, no one will post now that it is heated.


There are more improvement we can do to make the show exciting in all the areas of the show to keep the show alive. This topic may be an excellent conversation on your radio show. let callers provide some ideas on what they would like to see. I would be willing to help with ideas and suggestions. You are welcome to contact me anytime. I look forward to hearing from you.

Grant
Black Dog Baits

[kb]

Sorry Grant but I do take it personal and I put a great deal of time and effort into making the bass program at the ISE one that folks will want to come and see. With the list of anglers you have posted I think the real emphasis is more big bait/big bass guys and without a doubt that would be great.

I am pretty good friends with Rago and Ken Huddleston as well as Butch and I have tried to get Matt to do both the shows and my class at GF Marine and have yet to align our schedules. I don't know how many of the big bait guys will actually do a seminar and you are only going to be able to do a couple of them and be able to keep the program well rounded. Roland Martin's daily fee and expenses are more than my entire speaker budget for the entire show......

Trying to bring in new techniques and ides this was the first time most of us have ever had the chance to talk to Mike Folkestad at a show. We have never had Jeff Michaels speak and I would consider him one of the best big bait guys around. I have booked Mike Long the past two years and due to unforseen personal issues Mike was unable to attend and I couldn't try that again this year but Mike has assured me he will be here. Bub Tosh showed a few new products and Paul Bailey is a pretty good big bait guy as well.

As far as a bashing of BDB and your sites I wasn't bashing I was pointing out that you guys did nothing to promote your attendance and any product specials or new stuff you might be showing, come by and meet the BDB pro staff etc.......that is your job! I promoted the show for 6 weeks prior to the event on my show with 20X the time they purchased to generate interest.

I agree that we need the retailers and booths and when a company aligns themselves with one retailer at a show and only displays in their booth I believe it costs you money in the long run. BDB has many more retailers than Bass Tackle Depot and I am sure they would appreciate your promotion of their stores carrying your product as well.

The reality is there wasn't a drop in booth numbers at this year's show and attendance numbers are on pace with the past few years. Yes some booths go away and some new ones show up that is been the norm for years.

Can we get a few more big bait guys there yea I am sure we can....will they help the retailers sell $400 swimbait rod and reels and $50 baits.......don't know!!!! Past experience has been slow and the average bass angler sitting thru the seminars is not the big bait guys. That is a small percentage of our attendees. With the exception of the A-rig not one swimbait question in the roundtable in two hours. Logs in the demo tank????? I feel like we are stretching for things if that is a real complaint!!!

I will put the quality of the speakers and their presentations up against any program anywhere in the country.

Sorry Grant I consider the bass program one of my products and like your products I am proud of it and what we do each year, always looking to make it better but will defend what we do and why we do it. I figured knowing you as long as I have if you had that many observations on how the show failed you would have called me instead of the bashing on a forum....you have my number too.

The ISE of old!!! I am not sure what that means!!!! This is my 25th year with ISE and in the "old" days there were about 4 of us doing every seminar for 5 days, no round table and no current tournament winners and AoY's.

Kent Brown

[lunker punker]

Uhhhh........... WOW............. You always wonder if there is any good crap on Wb when you get home from work and blam. I was lookin for more crap about the a-rig ban. I see this thread and, well crap..... I see both points and agree with Kent about discussing things privately. I think Grant is concerned about the show genuinely. I was not able to attend this year so I cant comment on the show. From years past ,can it be better? YES. How do we do this? I am not sure. I have some ideas. Im sure the zillion people who frequent this website may have ideas as well. Is there a way we can turn this thread into a forward thinking positive thread? i think Grant and Kent should lose the raised fur and work for the greater good with ALL OF US. Please submit all opinions good ,bad ,and ridiculous as well. What does it take to make the show better? Let the users and attendees answer......... Another great question could be: How do we boost attendance from audiences we have never seen? There are plenty of master marketeer anglers out there ,however they come at a price. So do the booths. Something needs to happen. Im just not sure what it exactly is.

Kent obviously has put a damn good show on while running it. He is the man for the job. We need to know what it takes from REAL consumers to excite them about bass fishing at the show. I would like to see retailers maintain a general level of respect that is higher at the shows. Competition is good,but doesnt have to be UGLY. I will call you Kent. I enjoy speaking with you every chance i get. Lets hear from the WB crowd and hear what they might have to suggest.
Jeremy Anderson

[DanIsaac]

I too have worked my share of shows over the past 18 years, and I too have seen them come, and seen them go.

Personally, IMHO the timing of SAC ISE is the most complained about attribute I hear of. It's almost always in the middle of the NFL play-offs, end of duck season, too soon after Holidays, etc etc etc.

Obviously, I have no idea what all goes into scheduling, but as much as we hear the complaint, perhaps a show at the end of Feb might do better? Who knows, but I do understand where Grant is coming from, at least with regards to his perception. I too was hoping for a much larger turn-out.

Friday and Saturday were fairly busy, but Thursday and Sunday ????? Not so much. One thing is for sure though, we'll definately miss it if it ever does go......

Dan

[kb]

Yes and we have heard that same concern Dan over the years. The problem is there is not another weekend available for the facility in the first three months of the year. Some are long standing events as well like the Home and Garden Show, Bridal Fair and Autorama. Not like you can just pick new dates and move there, If you move until later in the month of February then you have to look at changing the dates of either the Phoenix or Salt Lake ISE, can't go to the first week of March that is the Hall show in Long Beach, two weeks later is Del Mar.

Now if we put it on the last weekend in February then the bass guys say "why in the world would you put it right on top of the Bassmasters Classic". Many of the booths, factory people, media and anglers are obligated to be there, if we went to the last weekend of February this year we would also be directly on top of the FLW at Havasu. We have worked hard with FLW to keep the events off of the Sacramento show in order to get speakers and so the guys can support sponsors at the biggest show we have.

If we back up the show a week then we land on top of the Payullup WA show that O'laughlin puts on where many of the folks that display at this show also have a booth......

And to make sure your dates are locked in with the facility and nobody rents it or puts an event on top of yours you have to book the facility out up to 10 years.

With all that being said if you give up the dates and move later then you run the chance of another promoter moving into your town and putting a show on the same dates that you used to be on and totally confusing the public...........

We would love to be off of Football playoffs as you are likely to get more media coverage of the show on TV and radio let's face it if they have to choose between a fishing and hunting show or NFL playoff game we lose every time.

I know there is always a better way to do something and room for improvements in everything out there but some of the things that everyone says "yea why don't we do that" are just not possible.

We will be on the same weekend next year in Sacramento so mark your calendars!

hope this clarifies some of the questions on dates!

Kent Brown

[GW]

Scheduling the ISE show in Sacramento is like scheduling fishing tournaments, no matter what you do someone will be unhappy for any number of reasons.

I am not sure if we can compare it to shows in the South East US. I have traveled all over the US and anyone who has been in those Southern States will tell you there is what seems like a bass boat in every yard, many times a boat that is worth more then the home or trailer its parked in front of! Not only is fishing a way of life there but hunting as well, all things you find at an outdoor show. Now you put one of those shows in the South on opening weekend of deer season and watch what happens. I was doing some work for a company in Arkansas a couple years ago and they told me that is like a state holiday on opening day of deer season, even the schools close because so many kids are absent.

Why dont we get that kind of response at our shows? Not sure, maybe because there are always a bunch of things to do on any giving weekend in California? I know I have not gone the past few years because its the same old stuff. I think even the TV ads they run are the same year after year. Will I go again, yes I am 100% sure of it.

[phishenphool]

Grant,

I think it is a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. What you claim you would like to see BDB did not do. Not trying to bash as I am a fan of the 6in & 9in wooden punkers but other than the giant shell cracker what new big baits did BDB have?

Kent did a good job marketing, and coordinating the event. Tournament anglers & weekend warriors have carried the industry in the current economic climate and that was the targeted demographic.
But you know that. Why else market small injected punkers and shell crackers instead of creating a 12inch billed wooden rat bait or 10in billed single jointed wooden trout wake bait? There is nothing wrong with it, that is smart business practices to target that general bass fishing demographic.

As for the line up of guest speakers, Kent did a great job. Coordinating speakers at a 4 day event is difficult and he did a good job covering the gambit of fishing styles. Could the have been swimbait makers and big bait guys on the tank? Sure that would be awesome, but that may not be the reality.

Wes

[Robchik]

The loss of vendors, i think, is part of a vicious cycle. People want a deal, Vendors can't afford the killer deals of ISE's past (the economy sucks). People dont spend, Vendors stop coming.

As with every year I've been to the ISE, I enjoyed it a lot. Having worked the show the last two years, both for larger retail outlets/vendors this is always question #1, "What do I get?" "What specials are you running?" This makes me believe that people want to spend money, but in a tight economy want the best deal for their money! I dont blame them either... for the average person it'll cost $15 to get in, $10 to parks $10-20 for food, multiplied by X if you bring the family... Jeez, you better walk away with more than a look see and something you can wait until Black Friday to get...

I know the Bass fishing community does their part. Phenix, Dobyns, BTD, Black Dog etc. all had killer deals. $25/$40 BTD Credit and Bama Rig with Phenix Rod Purchase, BOGO Free on 5" Punkers, free reel with Dobyns Champion/Champ Extreme Purchase plus many more... Sick deals on Bass gear... SICK Hell, a buddy of mine wanted a spinning outfit, top shelf. Mark was giving a Curado 50E with NRX purchase. He asked Mark if he could get a discounted CI4 instead... Done deal... Dropped $500+ on a NRX rod/Shimano reel combo... Win-win

I think everything at the show symbiotic. It starts at the top with big ticket items. If the lodges, guides, charters, boat dealers run specials on their goods/services, then guys see the vendors go get hooked up with the right gear. If the vendors run promos, people buy from the retailers. At least that's my narrow view of it.

If we get some killer deals from more vendors and great companies like Phenix, Dobyns, Okuma, Black Dog, Fisherman's Warehouse, Bass Tackle Depot continue to support the show and give the public what they want, things will get a lot better. When the economy starts making an upwards turns, it will get back to the good old days of the ISE.

- Robby Chikasawa

[Wolfeman]

Me and my buds used to go to the ISE show in San Mateo every year.
Why did we go? Because we could. I know that's a stupid reason buts it's all the reason we needed.
We'd get some discount coupons, park on the street, and cruise up and down the isles.
We didn't care if there was some radical new stuff; we just liked going and seeing all the stuff that was there.
And we'd each drop some dough on tackle and food. We'd check out the tank demos and chat up the Ranger dealer and slobber all over the new models. I'd always run into a NutCase or three and spend a bunch of time catching up with them.
The Sac show is just too far for us to run to, but if it was closer we'd have gone.
My point...It's a fun thing to do and doesn't need to be much more than that.
- Wolfeman

[GrantOlguin]

Wes,(phishenphool)

Sure, We at Black Dog Baits did not bring anything new. Yes, we did have a giant shellcracker which was for display only. These are baits Our mad scientist builds during down time. Do we have anything new? Yes, we have baits on deck that will change this industry. Unfortunatly, we are waitng on 4 U.S. Patents. We are certainly not short of projects and innovation. This process has slowed us down. Although, with innovation and protection we create our own market. Giving us longevity. Next year you most likely will see a very different Black Dog Baits. Will we have rods? Well we have created new rod components here in the bay area that will change the rod industry. Can we mass build the rods in the U.S.? We have all the new capabilities that will allow us to create these here. My point is we are working on projects that are different and will help create something new. If we didn"t change things up and do something new would people continue to buy our product? The same concept of the iSE if things don't change will customers continue to return to the ISE show? What will Black Dog Baits do to help the ISE? My mind is spinning. I could bring in major lure companies along with apparel companies, rod companies, hand made bait specials, custom swimbait rods, etc. have product give aways, raffles of product. bait samples, Giant Tv screens with videos. bring some excitement. People like to leave the shows with free swag. I certainly did as a kid at that show. If anyone would like to have something like this make a post. I can get this started.


If the ISE is willing to help create this I can pull this together in no time at all. We can create a whole new venue. I would like tihe ISE to reply.


Wes, do you have any suggestions that you would like to see new at the ISE show? even 1 change will help.

[lunker punker]

Grant,

I think it is a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. What you claim you would like to see BDB did not do. Not trying to bash as I am a fan of the 6in & 9in wooden punkers but other than the giant shell cracker what new big baits did BDB have?

Kent did a good job marketing, and coordinating the event. Tournament anglers & weekend warriors have carried the industry in the current economic climate and that was the targeted demographic.
But you know that. Why else market small injected punkers and shell crackers instead of creating a 12inch billed wooden rat bait or 10in billed single jointed wooden trout wake bait? There is nothing wrong with it, that is smart business practices to target that general bass fishing demographic.

As for the line up of guest speakers, Kent did a great job. Coordinating speakers at a 4 day event is difficult and he did a good job covering the gambit of fishing styles. Could the have been swimbait makers and big bait guys on the tank? Sure that would be awesome, but that may not be the reality.

Wes

Thank you for the great contribution to the thread Wes! Can we please take this in the direction that we can all benefiet from? Lets create a pool of ideas and go from there. Redundant bickering will not make the show better.

[ppickerell]

Free A-Rigs for all attendees? Free Beer? Bobby Barrack autographed Lunker Punker raffle? Kayak fishing hall? Iphone app for the show floor? Strippers not Stripers? Cooch in a bikini? Make your own A-rig booth for the kids? Duck call contest without using your mouth?

[phishenphool]

Grant,

Glad to hear that BDB has some new baits in the works. I completely understand the patent issue. The swimbait community is small and it doesn't exactly get along. Totally get it. Now if you can get Ken to kick out a 10in hudd I would be one happy dude.

A recommendation for baitmakers at ISE or any show: it would be awesome if they had a demo pool that was accessible for the public to try out the baitmaker's baits before the person actually buys them. Think about all the nay sayers who have never actually seen what a swimbait does or has never attempted to throw one on the right tackle. Giving them this opportunity, can have great potential for that person to give it a try and buy that product.

Personally ,as I have grown a in my fishing experience I will not buy a bait without testing it or seeing it in action in person. I have flat out waisted money on crappy lures/swimbaits and won’t make the same mistake twice. I want to know what the bait is going to do before I buy, not figure out that the bait doesn't do what I wanted it to do on that water. Therefore having a testing pool at ISE or some kind of show could potentially increase sales for other people who have this same ideology. It would be cool if the bait maker had a sign up list where participants could put their email address to test the baits and do raffle for the actual bait based on the list of participants. From the sign up sheet the baitmaker could sent out a list serve of product releases, upcoming events and pro staff's performances.

As for recommendations for ISE or any show for that matter, it would be awesome to have a presenter who truly walks in both the swimbait world and is successful in tournaments. A few names that come to mind are: The Bailey brothers, Mike Long, Rob Beloni, Nico Rafael (sorry if I butchered your name) or Steve Paliughi. Nationally, Matt Peters come to mind as an individual who is figuring out a successful blend, and potentially changing the sport in ways we haven't seen. I had the opportunity to interview Matt and the way he is blending technology with his fishing experience has a huge potential for the next generation of fisherman who have grown-up with technologies greatly different than the typical bass fisherman demographic.

In my line of work and big business in general, no longer is instructor led training a must (i.e. in fishing a demo tank style presentation). How many times have you heard someone say, “man I would love to go out on the lake with that guy”. Well, virtual training principles can apply to fishing just the same as in business.
For example, how cool would it be to have a live conversation with Mike Long while he is actually fishing. With technology now, we can actually have people present remotely on the lake without a camera man or crew for the low cost of an iPhone. The angler can send a live feed of fishing, instructional information, carry a conversation with an audience and give a true a "day in the life of" from the comfort of the front deck of their boat. The potential is limitless, all the while saving travel cost for the pro or bait maker. Just think, Byron Velvick could video chat live on lake Amistad at shows like ISE, and at the ISE endpoint the conversation is simply broadcasted with a laptop or ipad, projector, speakers and a mic (live Texas feed and conversation in Cali). This is an experience that not many bass fisherman have had the opportunity to do. Technology can ultimately strength the community as whole, close the communication gap all the while creating new potential business opportunities at the same time. This is just my idea and I don't know if technology and the bass fishing industry have met on this level yet and may not...but the possibility is there. I expect some of the young gun like Matt Peters to push the envelope and create this type of "dialogue". You wanted one suggestion, not sure if all that sounded crazy, but it makes sense to me. and is technically possible. From a business standpoint, some of the marketing and communication within the fishing industry are aged and stale…but again that may just be my opinion as a younger bass fisherman, thinking about how the next generation will operate in the bass fishing community.

PS: When are you going to put out your video and kick out a Kokanee paint scheme. I know y'all are sitting on a ton of footage.

Wes

[yjjustforme]

Free A-Rigs for all attendees? Free Beer? Bobby Barrack autographed Lunker Punker raffle? Kayak fishing hall? Iphone app for the show floor? Strippers not Stripers? Cooch in a bikini? Make your own A-rig booth for the kids? Duck call contest without using your mouth?

x2 hahahhaha

[yjjustforme]

i think the show this year was a great show. as far as what i would like to see hummmm, it would be fun to see a pro challenge or competition like casting contests or who can skip a jig the farthest. also it would be cool to have each pro pick out 1 person each and take them up to the top of the tank and give them a hands on lesson on whatever the spectator would of like to learn; i think that would reallly have a good affect on the crowd. that person is gonna leave the show saying wow i just got to learn from bub or gary or whoever (wish cooch would a made it out). kent did a great job with the roundtable line up and it was nice to hear all the great advice and tips from the pros and they were all nice and willing to talk to you and answer any ?'s you may of had. if i would change anything i would put the demo tank right in the center of the building instead of being tucked away in the corner (seating or watching seems to be a pain in the *** sometimes) but like i said all in all it was another great show this year and cant wait to go to next years!!!!

[kb]

Grant

You are looking to put together a new feature for the show. This is great and the numerous new vendors like rod and bait companies will be great. The first thing is we need an idea of how this feature will work and how big an area you will be needing with all these new booths. Remember that most everyone in that show will continue to keep their current booth location as many have already paid the deposit for next year to keep their location.

For every one of the new exhibitors that you are bringing in we will need to get contracts and deposits in on booths . Are you looking to replace the entire demo tank area and eliminate that from the show?. This will be a swimbait feature with alll the baits and manufacturers of baits and rods etc.....can they all get along that long????? viable question I have seen the squabbles at Bass A Thon many times but if you can have them all in one area great. Will we need a octogon to decide who really invented some wiggly tail?

I will need a complete list of the guys that will speak in this new venue, what their daily fee will be and affiliations. This will replace the tank so this will eliminate any of the usual speakers at the show? If this is in conjunction with the tank rememeber the limited room and will we still do semianrs to the attendees that are not swimbait and big bait orientated? Will we eliminate the Round Table Seminars as well? or will it be a swimbait big bait roundtable

You think this might be 10, 20 30 new booths that will support this. Are you bringing in the video equipment and TV's? ISE has the powerpoint equipments and rear projector screens if any of the swimbait guys have power point presentations. I will also need any other affiliations that your guys will have with boat companies as this is a big deal to them and they like to have some of their guys on the tank to direct people to the boats.

How do you plan on having a raffle? Do you have to be there to win or are you going to ship product to the folks, do you have to buy something to win or are you going to give away a raffle ticket to everyone that walks by. Remember I am not sure if they have to buy something to be entered if that is legal in CA, that is a lottery and falls into a different deal. So you will probably have to give a ticket to everyone that walks by or in the feature.

Where are you thinking this will be advertised and promoted? Our usual marketing efforts probably won't be that effective with such a specialty market so we will need a plan on where we will market this to make the entire swimbait nation for lack of a better term aware this is going on. Advertising the renowned swimbait guys to the average show customer will have little to no meaning as they will have no idea who even the best known swimbait guy is.....this have to be done with the cult....the underground guy that will know who some of these guys are.

Forward your proposal to me via email.

If this thing grows like you say it can ISE is willing to put it in it's own tent outside if it outgrows available space and additional demo tanks are available to bring in and put in the tent if you can find a sponsor for the tank. I can give you the costs of tanks at the show but usually about $8000 for the show. ISE will run and build seperate commercials to promote this as well. If this works then we can have the usual tank demo's that have been successful and a crowd favorite and this whole new big bait extreme venue as well. I am sure Bass Tackle Depot will be your retailer but this might open up room for some other as well!

Guys have tried this in the past with other aspects of the show with limited success. Maybe even a display that shows the swimbait guys making baits right in front of the folks so they can see how it is done, Your mad scientist painting if that can be arranged.....wow some great ideas and I am looking forward to your proposal so we can get this all moving in the right direction......who knows maybe next year ISE will stand for International Swimbait Expositions!!!!

[kb]

Guys I keep hearing about the loss of vendors at the ISE show and if you could please post a list of the vendors that we have lost that you remember displaying at the ISE show in the past so we can get the sales guys on this and maybe get them back into the show once again for 2013. I am not sure what vendors from the past weren't there but I am sure you guys will help refresh my foggy memory!!!

thanks
Kent Brown

[DanIsaac]

fine...let's start with Hi's Tackle Box........next

[rmd]

I think the reason a lot of Vendors are not coming to these show is the cost $1000.00 TO $1500.00 FOR A Booth then you add the cost for motel and food for your helper, so for a small company to bring there product and sell its very hard to make any money after your expenses and i think the cost to get in is to high and parking

[XMAN]

..Years ago and when we were kids [now 58] we all waited for the SF SPORTS AND BOAT SHOW..it had everything [abit less hunting and fishing] all the books we would come back with..it was an outdoor adventure..new trucks, every boat you could think of,it wasnt a 2-3 hr deal..it was all day long..just everything you would want to see was there...the last time i was at an ISE show was 6 yrs ago back to back years..it just didnt interest me that much...@kb, maybe its the internet, cost of gas, economic times,cost of getting in..as far as the internet, we didnt have all this info 15 years ago at your fingertips..we do now..if ya want brouchures just print-em..touchy-touchy is the only way though...Ill be back one day...X

[fish_food]

I think the reason a lot of Vendors are not coming to these show is the cost $1000.00 TO $1500.00 FOR A Booth then you add the cost for motel and food for your helper, so for a small company to bring there product and sell its very hard to make any money after your expenses and i think the cost to get in is to high and parking

That's probably spot on. The January/winter timeframe was a traditionally slow sales period for many tackle retailers so it may have made sense to exhibit at the sport shows. But nowadays, internet sales probably offsets much of the winter slowdown so it may not be worth setting up a retail booth for the reasons rmd quoted above. It’s hard work to transport and set up a full retail store, not to mention the 10+ hour days staff usually puts in (and at multiple show locations to boot).

[zrtj]

First, I want to commend Grant for stirring things up with starting this thread. In the start of the thread, it appeared that some feathers were ruffled with the initial post, but I'm glad it's toned down and people are discussing what I saw in Grant's initial comments... How can the ISE show improve?
My company did not purchase a booth at the ISE show, not because we didn't want to be there, but simply because we're a small company and do not feel like we could get the same promotion value from the show that other companies might enjoy. Thankfully, our products were being sold at the show by one of our amazing dealers and we appreciate that a great deal. I feel manufacturers that buy exhibit space at any show or convention need to feel like customers of the show. After all, with no booths, there's no show. If the show wanted to attract creativity and excitement from manufacturers, the show would want to contact all possible exhibitors and make sure that they feel like they would get time on the tank or whatever other product exposure opportunities are available. From what I'm reading about the show, it appears like a company would need to buy a booth, then promote their presence at the show, then pay for a speaker and so on. If the company is large and sells 100's or 1000's of different items, that could easily be justified.
I don't know Kent personally, but I'm sure he does a fantastic job putting together the bass related part of the ISE show. It appears that there may be a misconception that Grant's company only offers big swimbaits and I have a bunch of non-big swimbait lures in my boat made by BDB. Knowing this, I seriously doubt that Grant's intention is to simply draw more attention to the larger swimbait-type baits at the show.
I think that it's common for shows put a lot of emphasis on a select few well known anglers that have some affiliation with well known brand. So the speakers, tank demos and such will not give the same exposure to companies not affiliated with the anglers being promoted by the show. So what incentive would there be for newer, smaller companies to buy a booth to show off their product when the show is basically saying "here's the expert, he knows more about this particular type of product than anyone else and here's the brand he uses"? That small company could get more bang for their buck marketing their product in other venues where they have a captive audience. I think what is going on is the show has matured to the point where legacy arrangements with certain companies and anglers could keep the show from looking attractive to companies like mine if new ideas aren't tried.
I strongly believe that attendees from the bass fishing sport are always excited about seeing new products and new ideas. This is the great thing about bass anglers, we all want to be able to catch more and bigger fish than the next angler, even if only for bragging rights. I'm sure there's a lot of anglers that want to meet the famous bass anglers, but there's even more (that have the money to spend) that want to see new, innovative and creative product offerings and those products are often (not always) from new, smaller companies. So if the show wants a guy to come back year after year, they have to feel like they will get something at the show that they might not otherwise find. Sorry for the long post guys... that's my $0.02.

Thanks to all for making for an interesting thread that's very thought provoking for our industry!

[Vince Borges]

It's funny to hear all the recomendations all leaning towards bass fishing! Yes that's what we all do on this site, but it's just a portion of what the show is all about! Every year Phenix Rods has a booth at the ISE. And every year, we sell saltwater rods 5-1 against bass rods! Of the thousands of customers that come through our booth, I would say 80% of them are looking for Sturgeon, salmon, steelhead, tuna, and trout rods! As a vendor, I think my biggest complaint is after paying $3k for a booth, we as well as the guys that work our booth, have to still pay $10 per day, per vehicle to park! We still have to pay the same entry fee for extra passes! Isn't the $3k enough?!? Now I know that the parking is not the ISE's doing as much if not all of it is Cal Expo! But to have to pay for entry fees for guys that are there to work is all ISE. This year the show was slower than normal as KB stated expected with the Local NorCal team in the playoffs! But sales for our booth were almost par to previous years if not a little better! I can't comment on the speakers, tank demos, or who's who since I'm there working the whole time and not walking the show! But it did seem like there was a lot less people walking the isles than years past!

[Rod Martin]

Well, little far for me to drive. But I was wanting a saltwater rod and had not thought of Phenix. So the post was worth it
Thanks Vince, I'll take a look at yours

[Gary Dobyns]

I put a 20 foot booth in the show and had staff there to support both retailers and talk fishing with anyone that had a question or just wanted to BS. I got to see many old friends and show some potential new customers rods. The Sac ISE show is the best that I have been to, with the exception to the Bass Master Classic....but even then, our pros here are more accessible to the public.
Things that most of you don't know from behind the seen......it's pure chicken shi* for companies that will not work with ISE, will not put a booth in the show for years...do nothing for the sport....sell against their dealers....talk shi* about all sports shows...BUT FEEL THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL THE VP OF ISE AND DEMAND THAT THEY HAVE STAFFERS SCHEDULED ON DEMO TANK!! I am NOT talking about Grant either, there are many others. BUT as far as I'm concerned...if you’re not an ISE exhibitor...you don't have a dog in the fight. ISE is a business. They do a great job. The Sac Show has been a complete sell out for years with a waiting list. They must be doing something right!! Can it be better? Sure and they try new things every year.

KB works hard at the bass program. Most of you don't know what goes on behind the scene. But as usual....many times it's guys wanting something for NOTHING!! Guys want to sell their products, but have someone else PAY FOR IT. Great business model for "them".

KB, please send a copy of this to Mr. Kirk and tell him my PR rates are HIGH and I need free booth space next year, 22 Dobyns staffers on the demo tank, and I'll send him a bill for my time. Please remind him I type slowlyyyyyy....and get paid by the minute

[Steve Reed]

This was the first year I've missed the ISE while living in CA.

I agree that it is quite the same every year, but I actually enjoy that aspect. I used to count the days until the show and couldn't wait to get in and head straight to the demo tank. I remember sitting in the same spot all day friday and saturday as I listened to the techniques discussed on the tank. I couldn't get enough.

For me, it will always be about the people. I went every year when I was in college because it was a place I felt like people understood my obsession with bass fishing.

KB - just speaking for myself, thanks for creating and promoting such a great environment to come and bs about fishing. I missed it this year, but if I can help it I won't miss it again.

[GrantOlguin]

Things that most of you don't know from behind the seen......

Most of you don't know what goes on behind the scene. But as usual....many times it's guys wanting something for NOTHING!!

The behind the scenes part is precisely what the general public has no way of understanding. And what makes it difficult for a new, smaller company to justify buying a booth and showing off the most exciting new products

I can't comment on the speakers, tank demos, or who's who since I'm there working the whole time and not walking the show! But it did seem like there was a lot less people

Where are all the people?

I remember sitting in the same spot all day friday and saturday as I listened to the techniques discussed on the tank. I couldn't get enough.

That’s right… at the tank. It’s easy to see why exhibitors might want equal time where the attendees hang out. Is it the fault of the companies that have staffers on the tank that they naturally get more exposure? Of course not, it’s business. Anyone in business is going to try and get the most exposure for their company possible. If it’s an arrangement that if you spend a certain amount of $$$ for showing off your products at the tank, I think all exhibitors would understand that. So if that’s the case, maybe that should be part of the exhibitor contract… pay so much and get so much time presenting your products where everyone is hanging out. Otherwise, some exhibitors might get something for nothing.

talk shi* about all sports shows...BUT FEEL THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL THE VP OF ISE AND DEMAND THAT THEY HAVE STAFFERS SCHEDULED ON DEMO TANK!!

No one on this thread is talking s___ about sport shows and no one has said that non-exhibitors should get free time on the demo tank. The point of the thread is how the show can improve and be more attractive to potential exhibitors and attendees. Should the ISE stick with the status quo and focus on keeping the same exhibitors, presentations and such? If ISE gave all exhibitors the same promotion value as they give the longtime exhibitors, would the longtime exhibitors back out and not buy a booth space? ISE is indeed a business!

If all the Tank time is booked and a new company/exihibitor wants to promote their product. How should they go about promoting themselves at this shows? If they can't have tank time?


Grant

[Gary Dobyns]

Grant I never said anyone on this thread was talking shi*, but I will say you are close.
HERE IS A QUOTE FROM YOUR POST
"I arrived at the ISE sacramento this year for the first time in 3 years. Usually the East entrance is full of House boats, RVs camp trialers etc. This year it was a ghost town. The only display was a wood carving tent. This is bad."

I said "talking shi*" about the guys calling ISE and demanding tank time for their companies and they do not support. Your company did not support so why should a company in business ( ISE ) go out of their way to support you? BUT, they still let guys like me throw and talk about your baits on the tank, which I have done for you in the past.

Less guys in the show? Sunday was slower and it was expected because of the playoff game. The other days were very busy.

The ISE people will be happy to listen for any new ideas....but they need to make sense and many times fishermen's ideas are one sided.

Bottom line SAC ISE was a success once again this year.

[GrantOlguin]

Thanks Gary,

What are yours and kents ideas for paid exhibitors that want to use their Pro staff to promote their product on the tank. Will the ISE management set time aside on the tank for the paid exhibitors to promote?


Grant

[Gary Dobyns]

[quote="GrantOlguin"]Thanks Gary,

What are yours and kents ideas for paid exhibitors that want to use their Pro staff to promote their product on the tank. Will the ISE management set time aside on the tank for the paid exhibitors to promote?


Grant[/quote]

Grant I have zero say in this. KB does so he can answer better than I can. I will say that I know there is only so much tank time available during show hours, so if a dozen companies wanted only their staff on the tank it would be a problem of course. BUT, in the past we have had fishing theaters for demos and even a casting pond for demos. As soon as the ISE show tour ends, they start planning next year. So in a month or more, it'd be a great time to send ideas. They really do care about their shows and customers.

[kb]

Grant:

Let me address your questions on how I intend to address the exhibitor using the tank for displaying product. There are over 1100 booths in the show and all of the features like the demo tank, sportsman's theater and hunting and fly theaters are there to help support sales, introduce new products and entertain the people.

I and ISE have no intention to turn the demo tank into a commercial where there is a parade of manufacturers climbing up and down every 10 minutes. Besides "baits" being displayed on the tank remember the guys are talking rods, reels, lines, hooks, knots, new products and usually a topic covering a lake that they are considered an expert on.

I have in the past offered time slots to show new products in the tank and they have failed to draw a crowd to the tank or keep a crowd around. It turned into a bunch of pro staff guys standing around the tank. Not to say I won't consider this in the future but it has to be worked out and it won't get prime time slots.

The tank is a feature there to entertain people, show them some things they might not know, give the chance to see and buy some new products and maybe meet a pro they have heard or read about. I am glad I get to defend annually my decisions on who and why is part of the bass program and I appreciate the folks that have responded that they enjoy what we do and the program we bring in for them. It is not an easy program to put together and for every guy that speaks at the show there are 5 more that think they should be up there, think the guys that are up there are not the right guys or think I have another motive other than just trying to put the best program together, I stay within a budget and offer a form of entertainment to the show attendees. New speakers......we had several this year that we have never had before and they had great shows and full crowds.....Paul Bailey (former Daiwa Cup Champion) and Jeff Michaels (two time Everstart Champion and was reigning Shasta Champion, Forrest Wood Cup Qualifier), Tami Curtis (WON Southern AAA Angler of the Year, TV show and shows the ladies it isn't all about the boys fishing).

I have bored the readers on WB long enough on this subject Grant, you have my contact info and if you would like to chat give me a call. I think these things can be covered off the pages of the forum. And yes I have had companies call ISE and complain prior to the shows about the guys I am putting on the tank when they haven't even taken the time to see that I had several of their pro staff anglers on the tank the year prior and plan to have them back.......

We DO NOT have a policy that a company has to be in the show to have their products shown on the tank, that is a nightmare and way too hard to police. If BDB wants to get some baits in the hands of the guys on the tank the schedule comes out plenty early enough. Hpw does a company promote their products being at the show, try webpage posts, facebook updates, emails to customers telling them where they can find discount coupons, utilize your pro staff to do the same to their fans or followers, bring in that "big" name guy to work your display and meet and greet from your pro staff, offer up a contest or giveaway.....Lunker Punkers for Life......drop by the booth and enter to win Lunker Punkers for life (limit 10 per year)...oh wait enter your beat up old fish catching Lunker Punker at our booth at the ISE show and if you have the most beat up bait of the show we are going to give you this tackle box full of BDB and you get two custom hand painted wood punkers of your choice from the mad scientist himself.....Post your best Punker Crushed video on our facebook page and win a weekend on Clear Lake with one of the Black Dog Pro Staffers, a BDB jersey and collection of Black Dog Baits....stop by the booth to see all of the videos playing on our Punker Crushed Big Screen TV...this video has more hits than an MMA fight!!!!!

The good news is there are several more shows in the West left for this year and you I am sure will be able to give your critic of them as well, I am looking forward to it.

No apologies and no regrets on the ISE Sacramento show this year, we had a great bass program and a good show, boats were sold, baits were sold and folks are going fishing. I will do it again next year for ISE and am open to ideas but also not going to change a successful program too far away from what is working.

Let's go fishing!
Kent Brown

[GrantOlguin]

Kent,

Again, you have taken this to personal. The question was what can we do to help increase the attendance of the Sacramento ISE?

Again, this is not about Black Dog Baits. Or Lunker Punker videos. Or Black Dog Baits pro staff on the tank. The original post asked for suggestions from the public/Western Bass members that attend this show and what they would like to see.

We will do our part in the Bass/Fishing section next year to bring more support to the show. I feel a marketing plan needs to be worked out which can bring in many new vendors to the fishing area. Create a larger attraction with these new vendors such as major Promotions, Large giveaways, specials, product demonstations Etc. I will make contacts with other Manufacturers that would be willing to support this plan. If a second tank is needed to accomodate the staff of these manufacturers then this would the responsibility of us manufacturers.

We thank all that have posted on this subject. I have made notes to keep as reference for ideas that may help bring back attendance to the fishing area of the show.

Grant