Delta cheaters!!

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:20 pm

I found a barrel today on the river. Pretty intricate contraption that must've take considerable time to construct. A 100% FOR SURE bass storage container. I have many pictures, but am unable to upload from my iPhone(will upload when im able). Was used recently as the amount of algae was minimal.

Keep your eyes open and don't be afraid to call BS when something is suspect!!! And remember this---cheaters don't go through the trouble of making these things to keep small fish and finish in the middle of the pack!!! Hate to say it but any recent delta team event winner/big fish winner is now in question in my mind. We've gotta find a way to solve this issue. I'll post pictures as soon as possible----in the meantime EAT SH*T and DIE you scumbag POS's who are responsible!!! You will be caught.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:32 pm

Andy where did you find it was it north or south? This is so F' uped ! I plan on paying my hard earned dollar to play Sunday in Bass Fest I hate to think I am just donating to some A holes who are cheating

Dan Pollard1 · Post by **Dan Pollard1** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:03 pm

There is also a big 2 day FPT tournament going out of Ladds the membership charge is waived for this tournament. Excellent way for some one to come in and set something up.

massbaster · Post by **massbaster** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:31 am

Bassfest is giving a polygraph. I know its not fool proof , but at least it might discourage a few.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:18 am

massbaster wrote:Bassfest is giving a polygraph. I know its not fool proof , but at least it might discourage a few.

I think you're right. That's the best way to discourage them. Test the winners, plus several random from the field.
Roaches hate the lights.

kb · Post by kb » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:34 am

Andy I wish that when you guys do come upon these barrels instead of taking your photos and posting them on FB or calling out guys that have recently won a tournament or caught a big fish. By the way just in case you are pointing at the giant fish and winning string at the Snag Proof you are way off base. Those guys have won events on many different lakes and are top notch honest guys....

Now in the future if those type of barrels are found call the organizations that are holding future events, and better yet call DFG and let them put an eye on the cages. There have been several teams caught, banned and sent away from our sport in the past....we all know who they are!

The only way we can get these guys out is to get them caught!!!!!

and you are right POS dirtbags!!!!!!

kb

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:14 am

Kent, if the trap didn't look used yet, and/or there were fish in it, the story wouldv'e been different and a stake out would've been done. After further inspection, the trap looked used and tossed, but thanks for the suggestion. I in no way singled out ANY particular tournament OR angler, so you're the one off base here, sir, not me. Don't put words in my mouth. To me putting this information out was the best course of action given everything we found and who we talked to. I spoke with DFG and a tournament director that is hosting a tournament this weekend, and now everyone is aware.

kane-o · Post by **kane-o** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:53 am

they had a cage found at pyramid a few years back just before a tourneyment. and they told the t.d. about it, and in turn the sherriffs got word and went and pulled the barrel before anyone could even get a chance to watch it ? seems pretty stupid for the sherriffs to go and do this, knowing there was a cheater that could be caught !! plain and simple polygraph's for the winners and some randome tes's to the field as well.... im sure most of the org's could afford some polygraph testing equipment.. and it would give ALL the angler piece of mind !!

N.A.R · Post by **N.A.R** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:06 pm

I in no way singled out ANY particular tournament OR angler, so you're the one off base here, sir, not me. Don't put words in my mouth. To me putting this information out was the best course of action given everything we found and who we talked to.

AGREED!
Thanks ANDY!
Tony

ketchenbass321 · Post by **ketchenbass321** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:30 pm

Yeah, this is pathetic. Cheaters will get it back ten fold!!! If you have to cheat to win, something seriously wrong with you. Karma will work in so many ways to get back at people who do. Never pays! The Delta is such an easy place for cheaters. Far fetched, but I wish every boat had a GoPro camera that could record 8 hours of live fishing. Tournament directors can only view the footage as not to expose fishing areas of competitors. Again, I wish.

Cheaters will eventually be caught. When they do, they will never be able to face their fellow competitors again. They will have to live with the shame. Labeled and ridiculed for the rest of their lives. The price they will pay for such a stupid, thoughtless, immature and selfish act.

BS'r · Post by **BS'r** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:45 am

terrible...

Last year I found 2 Blue barrels in the outside bends in the middle river? They were burried in the tule berms. No fish but had been there a while. I dragged them out into the deeped water and caught dropshot fish off them for a couple of months.

Bassphish · Post by **Bassphish** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Found some similar barrels tied to the tules last September. I decided to open 'em up as they had lids with numerous 1/4" holes in 'em. I found about 25 bluegill inside that were just the right size for striper bait. Buttoned 'em up and left them were I found 'em...............

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:47 am

I love this debate! 100% sure it's a bass tank, it's gotta be tournament cheaters. I guess yer unaware of the widespread illegal poaching and commercial activity that takes place here. Quite frankly, this is a much bigger problem with more lucrative returns than tournament cheaters. It'd be totally off base to think these rings of poachers could possibly come up with sophisticated processes to skate the law by utilizing such contraptions. Never mind the fact there have been more arrests and stings involving these poaching groups the past 10 years than tournament cheaters.

Either way, it's dispicable and these rogue tanks need to be exposed, reported and destroyed!

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:17 am

Here are the pictures that I took...one at low tide, then going back at high tide when there was enough water around it for my buddy to pull it out and do some further inspection.

Its no surprise that some want to shed this off as some sort of poaching contraption and take the heat off of tournament fisherman. Sad thing is, the circumstantial evidence points to a bass tank, which is why I made that determination. It was used and dumped (a bass fisherman who used it wouldn't have any use for it after a tournament, and obviously wouldn't be able to bring the contraption back to weigh in, so he would probably dump it, after its use. A poacher would maintain the tank, and keep it hidden for further use, unless all the fish in that area were caught, maybe even taking the tank to a new area) The size of the hole is right for bass, also.

Lets not make excuses here, as has been done in the past, and lets work together to counter this obviously pressing problem of cheating in bass tournaments. Blaming poachers sure doesn't help combat the problem.

Attached are some of the pictures...ENJOY!!!

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:19 am

heres another one

Old dog · Post by **Old dog** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:34 am

Sorry that looks more like a catfish poaching barrel. The bass could swim out at high tide. Believe me I've been fishing tournaments for 30 years and cheating has gone on forever. When money is involved the low lifes will cheat. If you can get a TD to be honest with you it's one of there worst fears, that's why they try to keep it quiet, because if people think there's a cheater they won't fish. Lie detectors only allow you to do one thing. In a release, Korny had a good one, if you didn't pass the test you were banned from fishing 100% Bass in the future. You still had to award them their prize for that event as your only evidence of cheating was the test. If you held their prize they could sue you and you had no proof that they cheated that was admissible in court. I don't really know why anyone would want to be a TD.

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:08 pm

I dont understand why every barrel is a fish holder. People (tweakers) on the delta do all kinds of things out here on the Delta for no reason. That looks like some straight tweek ish to me. Someone with no means to an end would def build something like this, but only out of neccesity. That door/hatch looks like it was built to use for a while not juts a couple tourneys and Hell, cant blame a guy if he wants to save his dinner till tomorrow night. If I was gonna use a fish cage, I would use a CAGE! easier to pull up sinks right down, less visible, easier to obtain than a drum. These types of drums and blue barrels are used all the time and discarded from guys COOKING CRANK out on the delta in house boats and living on islands. The Deltas a crazy place and there are alot of things that pop up that seem to be one thing or another, but you dont know unless youve been right in the mix with it. Assumptions... well i think everyone knows the rest

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Ceaser wrote:I dont understand why every barrel is a fish holder. People (tweakers) on the delta do all kinds of things out here on the Delta for no reason. That looks like some straight tweek ish to me. Someone with no means to an end would def build something like this, but only out of neccesity. That door/hatch looks like it was built to use for a while not juts a couple tourneys and Hell, cant blame a guy if he wants to save his dinner till tomorrow night. If I was gonna use a fish cage, I would use a CAGE! easier to pull up sinks right down, less visible, easier to obtain than a drum. These types of drums and blue barrels are used all the time and discarded from guys COOKING CRANK out on the delta in house boats and living on islands. The Deltas a crazy place and there are alot of things that pop up that seem to be one thing or another, but you dont know unless youve been right in the mix with it. Assumptions... well i think everyone knows the rest

I couldn't care less if you think it's a bass trap or not. I posted the pictures, along with my opinion---draw your own conclusions as you see fit, you're free to do so. Assumptions are what make up your entire post, Ceaser. You think cranksters are responsible, that's your rightful personal opinion, nobody except those responsible know the truth. Whatever the case, people are now more aware than they were before I posted this, about the type of shady sh*t that goes on out there. As I've said before, we all need to keep our eyes open. That's all.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:55 pm

I'm with Ceasar on this one Andy. In reality, you are the one who is making assumtions here! You believe what ya want to believe, but here's the facts. What you saw, is indeed a fish holding tank, make no mistake about it. It ain't no trap buddy. What you have in your pictures, is the remnants of a discarded tank that is commonly used by home owners all over this River system. I just walked out my back yard and to my neighbor's dock, and took a picture of his. This tank, maybe 10 years ago, actually held the Delta Record caught by Galen Jenson until it was decided it wouldn't make it to the Pleasanton Sport Show and the fish was released. Marty has never fished a bass tournament in his life, and he has built several of these for local home owners to hold their catch in until they are ready to be eaten. It's really not that intricate or sophisticated. You certainly can hold on to your opinion, but in all fairness, I give the viewers here this picture, so they can see real facts of what ya saw out there. I certainly can appreciate the concerns and ethics of tournament cheaters, but ya missed on this one, as did I thinkin ya saw some fancy poachers cage.

: Sandmound_Fish_tank.jpg (138.25 KiB) Viewed 10323 times

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:18 pm

I was just responding because I wanted to give insight from a Delta resident perspective. We see crazy stuff all the time, things that boggle the mind. As you were informing members of the dangers of cheaters, I was putting other info out there based on FACTS I have ran across in my time out here. I am glad cheaters are being called out and post like yours make them aware people are watching, this is a great thing. But if things like this were posted all the time with the assumtion that these devices belong only to cheaters, that would not be right either, Andy. Besides, Dyke 8 area has been kicking down some giants lately... Id be pounding them at Folsom right right now if I was you!

I love that place!

Old dog · Post by **Old dog** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:09 pm

Boy Cooch now that I see your explanation and picture I'm actually more worried. If this kind of tank exists all over the Delta as a "fish holding tanks", and there not under suspicion, seems they'd make a great place to stash fish. They'd only be usable for team events but obviously that's where the biggest issue exists. Being a good friend of one of our past tournament circuit owners, hearing the horror stories about cheating, makes one suspicious and a bit paranoid.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:55 pm

Cooch wrote:I'm with Ceasar on this one Andy. In reality, you are the one who is making assumtions here! You believe what ya want to believe, but here's the facts. What you saw, is indeed a fish holding tank, make no mistake about it. It ain't no trap buddy. What you have in your pictures, is the remnants of a discarded tank that is commonly used by home owners all over this River system. I just walked out my back yard and to my neighbor's dock, and took a picture of his. This tank, maybe 10 years ago, actually held the Delta Record caught by Galen Jenson until it was decided it wouldn't make it to the Pleasanton Sport Show and the fish was released. Marty has never fished a bass tournament in his life, and he has built several of these for local home owners to hold their catch in until they are ready to be eaten. It's really not that intricate or sophisticated. You certainly can hold on to your opinion, but in all fairness, I give the viewers here this picture, so they can see real facts of what ya saw out there. I certainly can appreciate the concerns and ethics of tournament cheaters, but ya missed on this one, as did I thinkin ya saw some fancy poachers cage.

Sandmound_Fish_tank.jpg

Cooch,

So what you want me to believe is that some home owner's (FISH HOLDING) tank, which was secured to his dock, somehow got away in the middle of the summer and floated miles and miles away to an area where there aren't houses around for MILES and secured itself with it's long securely attached rope and tied itself around the base of a sparse patch of tules with a hand-tied knot?

aaaaaand I'm the one who is off on this one??

To you Cooch, this device may be a commonality, to me, it's an intricately designed FISH HOLDING TANK that was found NOWHERE NEAR a home on the Delta and was SECURELY fastened to the base of a patch of tules. As I said before, we've all got our own opinions. But as Old Dog wrote, it does kinda worry me that there are apparently so many of these around out there...

Ceaser--- I do need to get out to Folsom!! I love that lake, too...but not till about November!! I do appreciate your input, and have seen the cranksters on the river, first hand, may times...Definitely one of the many joys of fishing the river.

Andy

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:44 pm

Hey cooch got any bowling tournaments coming up

Ive got one coming up in two weeks central valley bowling club

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:50 am

I have seen fish holding barrels made like that tied up to docks where there are live aboards.

Doubt the one you found was for cheating, for a couple reasons.

No door, now who would risk having your tournament winning fish escape?

The barrel was not camoed, bright plastic sticks out to much.

The low tide pic if as found, the water would have run out the holes and the fish would die.

There are plenty of poachers, or a farm worker on the other side of the levee might have salvaged it, or tied it off there. Part of the hasp remains, but the little door is gone, looks like a fish barrel salvaged.

And people on the Delta don't have to be tweakers to do weird stuff. I have one person(s) out here that keeps climbing down the revetment to drag up pieces of driftwood and leave them on the shoulder of the road where they create a hazard. (Like an "everyday is earthday" nut.)

.02

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:15 am

Actually Andy, I'm not tryin ta git you to believe anything. Both you & I know, yer gonna have yer opinion and it's not likely gonna change. What I am tryin ta do though is curve the level of paranoia created by such a post titled "Delta Cheaters" and that every barrel found on this River system, first and foremost must be 100% associated with Cheating Bass Fishermen. That's just not true. It is your opinion, and that's fine. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

One guy above found blue gills in one. Folks eat blue gills, they also use em as live bait, mostly for stripers. It could have been legit, it could have been used by poachers. Ceasar mentioned the tweekers and their wierd ways of doing things. I've shown ya they indeed are commonly used all over the River by home owners not associated in any way with tournaments, yet for personal use. Here's a thought, maybe, just maybe, with it's location in the shallow rocks, it's just a big, bulky, failed attempt at a crawdad trap?

You stated in yer first post;

Hate to say it but any recent delta team event winner/big fish winner is now in question in my mind

No, you didn't name any names, but you have called out a lot of reputable and innocent anglers covering a long period of time and Lord knows how many events by the various Orgs. That's a purty strong blanket statement my friend. You've done so, with absolutely ZERO facts to support your claim that there was ever a bass in that tank at any time, much less used by a cheating bass fisherman. In it's current state, it's useless as a holding tank without a door and latch. Judging by the amount of algae on the bottom side and lack of it on the top portion, that thing has been sitting partially submerged for a long period of time. That's 3-4 months worth of algae. With the amount of currents here created not only by the tides, but the winds too, it is very possible that thing could have been drifting for long periods of time and traveled many miles of this river to the point where the rope/cable hung up. Who really knows for sure?

There are a number of legitimate things that barrel could be. To me, and it's just my opinion, to blast over the Internet that it's,

A 100% FOR SURE bass storage container used by Delta Cheaters

, is a lil far fetched and the last thing that would come to my mind if I saw it out there. I'm not sure what circumstantial evidence it is you believe you have to support and make this kind of 100% claim, I certainly can't find it in any of yer posts. Yet I have provided you with plenty of options to cover more than a shadow of a doubt that's its probably not a tank used by a cheating bass fishermen.

More importantly I think it's unfair that you have come in with this and basically are accusing a large number of hard working and innocent anglers of cheating and using tanks such as the one you found. Dood, I take offense to that, I know these guys personally, I wouldn't be much of a friend if I chose not ta stand up for em, they prolly don't even see this kind crap. I want cheaters out, exposed, banned and prosecuted as much as the next guy, make no mistake about that. I just think it's unfair. you've come in here with very little factual info, just because ya found a barrel, to make a blanket statement like ya did, that you suspect em of cheating.

Andy Lippert · Post by **Andy Lippert** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:48 am

I understand that you have a vested interest in discounting every cheating claim that comes to light out there on the delta, Cooch. It's no surprise that you're in here defending and discounting this find as no possible way of it being associated with cheating. You've vehemently defended Sapp and Varini(and others) many times in the past, and have continued here, refusing to believe that this find in any way could've been tied to tournament bass fishing. Once again, I think you're wrong. I refuse to get on the "smoke grass and believe that your fellow bass fisherman is some Jesus-esque, innocent, who wouldn't ever do any wrong" kumbaya bandwagon. While the vast majority of bass fisherman have good intentions and are good people, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone...just like most things in life.

When I find something like this next time, I'll make sure to post a politically correct non-blaming non-assuming post so that I don't offend tournament cheaters, or hurt their feelings. Lord knows I was talking about the honest bass fisherman who work hard at this sport, and put a lot of honest effort into doing well....NOT.

Andrew Lippert.

fishslyr · Post by **fishslyr** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:49 am

Cooch and Andy write well! Did you guys get an "A," in English class at college?

Terry Smith · Post by **Terry Smith** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:03 am

HEY PUT MY BARREL BACK I WAS GOING TO USE IT AT THE BASSCAT EVENT THIS SUNDAY

DAMN IT NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO USE MY OTHER TEN THAT I HAVE STASHED IN SANDMOUND!!!!!

CAN'T PEOPLE JUST LEAVE MY STUFF ALONE!!!!

TERRY

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:33 am

Hey i can get my hands on 250 55 gallon plastic drums right now 17.00 ea they would make some great fish holding tanks for the delta. There bright blue you cant miss them either

Steve Reed · Post by **Steve Reed** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:58 am

I wouldn't be surprised if it were used for exchange of drugs/money. The Delta has some tule berms that have some oddly intricate wood mooring posts and paths that lead in further.

Ceaser · Post by **Ceaser** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:39 am

Terry Smith wrote:HEY PUT MY BARREL BACK I WAS GOING TO USE IT AT THE BASSCAT EVENT THIS SUNDAY DAMN IT NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO USE MY OTHER TEN THAT I HAVE STASHED IN SANDMOUND!!!!! CAN'T PEOPLE JUST LEAVE MY STUFF ALONE!!!!

TERRY

thank you for this! Cheaters, no cheaters, I wish we could all just go fishing. What happened to guys just liking to bass fish. Now 90% of guys bass fish because they want to win tournaments and wear a brightly colored shirt and have a really cool boat wrap

I just like to go fishing, I dont know what happened to that. I miss the brotherhood of when I first started in the tourney game. Now its all cut throat and crazy. To each their own I guess. PLus Im tired of shaking off bites in pre-fish... thats when the fishing is good!

@Andy L. A little birdy whispered in my ear the trout are moving up in the water column at Folsom. I like when they do that a little early, I can leave all my fisher price gear at home, throw some real baits

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:57 am

Since cheating in tournaments is such a hot, and potentially damaging, topic, maybe anyone who suspects cheating should contact the moderators directly, to try and clarify things before posting publicly.
Both Andys raised some valid issues that, perhaps, they would have been better off discussing between themselves privately before opening it up for public discussion.
I remember how every partner Mike Hart ever fished with was subjected to pubic scrutiny once Mike was caught cheating, and I'm sure no one wants to subject anyone else to that kind of attention and speculation unnecessarily.
Cheating is too serious a charge to get mired down in a pissing contest about barrel designs and uses.

CN · Post by CN » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:18 pm

Ceaser wrote:
Terry Smith wrote:HEY PUT MY BARREL BACK I WAS GOING TO USE IT AT THE BASSCAT EVENT THIS SUNDAY DAMN IT NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO USE MY OTHER TEN THAT I HAVE STASHED IN SANDMOUND!!!!! CAN'T PEOPLE JUST LEAVE MY STUFF ALONE!!!!

TERRY
thank you for this! Cheaters, no cheaters, I wish we could all just go fishing. What happened to guys just liking to bass fish. Now 90% of guys bass fish because they want to win tournaments and wear a brightly colored shirt and have a really cool boat wrap I just like to go fishing, I dont know what happened to that. I miss the brotherhood of when I first started in the tourney game. Now its all cut throat and crazy. To each their own I guess. PLus Im tired of shaking off bites in pre-fish... thats when the fishing is good!
@Andy L. A little birdy whispered in my ear the trout are moving up in the water column at Folsom. I like when they do that a little early, I can leave all my fisher price gear at home, throw some real baits

kb · Post by kb » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:41 pm

Come on down to Gone Fishin Marine Tuesday night for Ultimate Bass University with Bub Tosh and you will learn so much you will be able to catch enough fish to beat the guys with the barrels too!!!! 6:30 and bring a buddy!!!!!

kb

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:55 pm

If the barrel thingy dont work out for you'll take up bowling you cant cheat in this sport hell you cant even get away with sandbagging or as they call it average control anymore

kb · Post by kb » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:59 pm

44 Andy Cuccia Jason Garcia 2.95

I found this in the Snag Proof results...............Damn Coochie I think he was talking about you!!!!!!!!!

kb

Dave Wilson · Post by **Dave Wilson** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:18 pm

cheaters or not, this is a great technique for cheating if you can pre-fish or transport fish in from another area. We keep big Halibut alive in blue barrels we sink out that have holes drilled in them, so keeping big bass in one is simple enough. Does this mean there are cheaters- no. Do people ever cheat to win money? umm yes. These devices can also hold bait. If they're for research they'll have tags.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:25 pm

kb wrote:44 Andy Cuccia Jason Garcia 2.95
I found this in the Snag Proof results...............Damn Coochie I think he was talking about you!!!!!!!!!
kb

Yeah, I grabbed the wrong Barrel on day one, that 2.95 was yer back up KB! HAR!

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:31 pm

Andy Lippert wrote: and have continued here, refusing to believe that this find in any way could've been tied to tournament bass fishing. Andrew Lippert.

You don't get it do ya? That's okay, because until you can prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's just another opinion by some guy who really believes he knows something. Whatever Lippert.

Whistu · Post by **Whistu** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:00 pm

Cooch, I'll sing Kumbaya with ya...after the Salem Which Trials are over of course

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:21 pm

You don't have to cheat, I don't trust any of ya anyway

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:39 pm

kb wrote:44 Andy Cuccia Jason Garcia 2.95

I found this in the Snag Proof results...............Damn Coochie I think he was talking about you!!!!!!!!!

kb

WTF??

Why do you have to bring me into this??

ketchenbass321 · Post by **ketchenbass321** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:42 pm

Man, this is interesting reads. Interesting to hear different opinions.

lcates · Post by **lcates** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:38 pm

Steve Reed wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if it were used for exchange of drugs/money. The Delta has some tule berms that have some oddly intricate wood mooring posts and paths that lead in further.

u ever heard of duck ponds

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