Great idea or sh***y idea ????

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Gary Dobyns
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Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by Gary Dobyns »

How about a three man team tournament circuit? I have a couple of good friends I love to fish some team events with but my schedule never lets me fish a circuit with them. Some ideas:

A 3 man team per boat

Entry fee could be higher. Pay out and expenses split 3 ways.

A 7 fish limit.

If 1 team member could not make it fine, 2 MUST fish.
This would stop a solo fisherman from being a team and help decrease the chances of "funny business".

It would encourage a team to pick up a weaker fisherman and still be competitive. Maybe a newcomer or a kid.

Of course, I have not thought this through. I know when I fish with a couple of buddies there is always more trash talking and fun.

Would this work?
mac (Doyle McEwen)
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Re: Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by mac (Doyle McEwen) »

Gary, I think it could be a great idea..Make it a requirement that at least one of the anglers be teenagers or ladies..By the way I dpo not mean that either of these catagories are inferior at fishing, just meaning that it is a way to increase the growth of the sport..I know a good many teenagers that are at least as good and many that are better than I am at bass fishing, the same goes for the ladies..

It could make for a great tournament series..I would think that increasing the limit to 9 or ten fish might be better though..

mac
Take a kid fishing, and don't forget about us older kids either..
Scot
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Re: Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by Scot »

good idea. i think this would be great to get kids and friends that do not fish into fishing

i would support a circuit like this 100%
Cooch

Yup, sounds like......

Post by Cooch »

a shODDy idea ta me. I think yer still spinnin' and lookin fer ways ta git back at Raza! HAR! HAR! HAR!

Actually, I kinda like the idea too! I can't agree with ya more Gary. I spend a lot of days on the water, fishing with friends now. By far some of the greatest and most memerable are those with 3 of us in the boat. A 3 angler fishing day takes on a whole new characteristic. By far, the most fun, no matter how many fish are caught. The challenge is to git a tournament org ta think it through and take it to fruition.
Dewayne
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Re: How about this

Post by Dewayne »

Team plus a draw for the 3rd. Randomizing the 3rd person would help prevent any "funny business" and give people a great chance to see the sport. Give preference in registration to teens and anyone who has never fished a even higher than club level.

On the other hand, do we need to further dilute the team scene any more.
Dewayne
billythekidd44
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Re: How about this

Post by billythekidd44 »

Dewayne wrote:Team plus a draw for the 3rd. Randomizing the 3rd person would help prevent any "funny business" and give people a great chance to see the sport. Give preference in registration to teens and anyone who has never fished a even higher than club level.

On the other hand, do we need to further dilute the team scene any more.
Ya,I like this idea.Sounds like fun.
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Gary Dobyns
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Re: How about this

Post by Gary Dobyns »

Dewayne, I agree about diluting the team scene. How about a real circuit like we used to fish? An event at Clear Lake, Delta, Oroville, Shasta or Berryessa would be great. As I said, I have not thought this through; it's just an idea to be able to fish some events with buddies. I do like Mac's idea about a 9 or 10 fish limit. The tournament circuits are all 5 fish and I hear complaints all the time. In the old days a team event meant 2 fishermen in the boat. If they fished solo they got to weigh 5 fish to everyone elses 7 or 10 fish. You almost NEVER see a solo fisherman. Fishing solo in an event is asking for problems, period. Bed fishing is just around the corner. I believe a team event should be at least 7 fish and make the fishermen choose to be at the event. This could also make the better organizations stronger and the poor ones go away. West Coast Bass used to draw 175 or more boats at almost every event in the Sac Valley.
billythekidd44
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Re: How about this

Post by billythekidd44 »

Gary Dobyns wrote:Dewayne, I agree about diluting the team scene. How about a real circuit like we used to fish? An event at Clear Lake, Delta, Oroville, Shasta or Berryessa would be great. As I said, I have not thought this through; it's just an idea to be able to fish some events with buddies. I do like Mac's idea about a 9 or 10 fish limit. The tournament circuits are all 5 fish and I hear complaints all the time. In the old days a team event meant 2 fishermen in the boat. If they fished solo they got to weigh 5 fish to everyone elses 7 or 10 fish. You almost NEVER see a solo fisherman. Fishing solo in an event is asking for problems, period. Bed fishing is just around the corner. I believe a team event should be at least 7 fish and make the fishermen choose to be at the event. This could also make the better organizations stronger and the poor ones go away. West Coast Bass used to draw 175 or more boats at almost every event in the Sac Valley.
Good point on the 7 fish,I totally agree.With the 5 fish limits you see alot of solo(teams)fishing where as before you saw hardly any.I think all team tourney should be 7 fish to discourage that,we all see the schedules at the beginning of the year so you know then if you and your team mate can make the tournies or not.And most circuits have a throwout so if an emergency happens where one cant make it you can throw it out and still have a chance to make the toc.I tell you what Gary you get a team circuit going with a 7 fish limit and I`m in.The boat I bought had a West coast bass sticker on it,i was wondering how big that circuit was now I know.What happened to it?
Mark Hiser
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Re: Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by Mark Hiser »

It's a great Idea, put the limit at 9, 13" minimum, never less than 2 per boat, 6 events, shasta, oroville, clear lake, berryessa, folsom and the delta.

Make the entry $350-$375, with big fish included, pay it back 3 places, all cash prize money.

Hell your addin 1/3 more people right off, 1/3 more fun, 1/3 more trash talkin, and enough prize money to cover the darn gas.

I'm in. You can run it :D
Mark
NaCl
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I smell a rat...or, are you hittin the funny smoke?

Post by NaCl »

Sure Gary!

I can see it now. THE SuperTeam....Dobyns, Rush & Schmitt. Got every lake AND the Delta wired! And what about those "good ol days"? If I rememeber correctly, wasn't there a team called Dobyns and "Hillbilly"? I have this hazy memory of them dominating those big team circuits all over northern California. The rest of us had fun fishing for second, tenth or, in my case, middle of the pack! Hide your wallets guys! The Okie's prowlin! HaHa!

You guys want the truth? Dobyns won all those Pro-Ams in the past without paying a dime of his own money in entry fees! That's right! The Grizzly Adams of Yuba City financed all his Pro-Am costs through his team winnings! Now, he may look like he just fell off an Okie turnip wagon but he's smart...really! Trust me! Don't let the Neanderthal forehead and Ape-like Gorilla arms fool you! We already know he CAN fish. Now, he wants to fleece us in another superteam circuit. Whadda you trying to do Gary, raise enough money to go fish the BASS Elites? Well, we ain't funding your trip back east! HAR HAR!

Enough kidding. In my opinion your idea has a lot of possibilities. One thing you're seeing in this discussion is the usual bass fishermen cacaphony of ideas. No two fishermen agree on everything. No matter how its designed, somebody will whine about the 3-man concept. Everybody will have a different twist...third man optional...seven fish limit...nine fish limit..third "man" has to be a kid. How bout this one...third "man" HAS to be a Wooooo-man! OUCH! Bet that won't fly! Ha-ha!

My point is simple. Its hard enough now to get teams to travel. Its near as difficult to find two guys who will COMMIT to an entire season schedule of team fishing. What will happen if we add a third problem child to the mix?

I have an idea. Why don't we take a regular 2-man team circut and just add a 3-man OPTION! Let 2-man teams fish against each other and 3-man teams would fish the same tournament but they would only fish against themselves. I'd give that a try. One weigh-in. Two tournaments. Over time, if the 3-man option grows and is accepted, then it could spin off into its own circuit. Someone like Korny could even set it up as a NorCal-wide, 3-man option "circuit"...kind of like a Travelers Circuit. Fish ANY of his circuits in the 3-man option. Your finishes would be compared to all other 3-man Option finishes in ALL the other circuits across N California. In effect, it becomes ONE big regional circuit. Require that teams must fish at least one event in three different circuits for their standings to count towards year-end fish-offs. This would assure some traveling by the 3-man Option Teams. At the end of the year, the top 5 or 10 point leaders for, let's say 8 events in 3-man teams, would attend the Championship. There, they could fish against themselves or choose to sit out one man and fish for the boat along with the 2-man teams. This option would be an added incentive for the three man concept.

Gary, this is an interesting concept. It could bring more people into bass fishing and build greater confidence in those who already fish teams. It's certainly worth a try. "Hey TD's...any of you listening?"

.....NaCl
"Not always right, but NEVER in doubt!"
Last edited by NaCl on Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TheFLY
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Re: Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by TheFLY »

I do think it is a great idea as another alternative to team events.

I also like your other point ... we need more true, full circuits that fish Berryessa and maybe even Folom on the Pro-Am side as well.
Phil
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Re: Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by Phil »

WELL GARY;

I AGREE, MAYBE WE SHOULD START WITH OUR FALL CLASSSIC HERE AT DON PEDRO NOV 18TH. FLYERS ARE NOT YET OUT AND ENTRY FROMS ARE NOT YET PRINTED ??? GIVE ME SOME MORE IDEAS PLEASE

THANKS

JIGS
PHIL
Rob T
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One key point regarding solo teams...

Post by Rob T »

That others have alluded to is the 5 bass limit for any team that many orgs now use. I think this low of a limit brings too much of a luck factor into the game, as well as allowing for the potential for "funny business" from solo anglers that others have hinted at, altho I must say that I've NEVER yet seen or heard of any "funny business" in the tourneys out West that I've been involved in. If organizers would simply make 7 bass the limit, the problem of solo angler funnies is reduced. IF someone does want to fish solo, they have to accept the handicap, and realize that's the way the cookie crumbles - there are times when one would fish solo in order to keep the team in contention for AOY or TOC qualification, but it really puts the onus on folks that want to fish team tourneys to try their best to be at the dock on time for their partner's sake. I really like a 7 fish limit, because it reduces the ability of a team to catch 4 2lb clones and then luck into an 8lb kicker. Doesn't completely negate the luck factor, which is ok but does dampen the effect of a single kicker fish, and put more onus on the team to find more good fish.
I wish all the orgs would really consider this.

Good luck, and God Bless,

Rob T
Phil
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Re: How about this

Post by Phil »

MOST BOATS I EVER FISHED IN WEST COAST BASS TEAM TOURNAMENT WAS AT CLEARLAKE OUT OF KONOCTI SPELL CHECK ON THAT !!! 205 BOATS 1990 IF I REMEMBER CORRECT !! $ 80.00 ENTRY FEE PLUS $ 10.00 BIG FISH WAS THE ONLY OPTION BACK THEN IF I REMEMBER CORRECT !!


JIGS
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MIKE TREMONT
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Re: Great idea or sh***y idea ????

Post by MIKE TREMONT »

I don't know, I'm always up for something new but....
Our club always had trouble with finding people to make teams. We also dropped our limit from 7 to 5 so at least one of the pair could fish.
I don't know what funnny stuff you all are speaking of. If it's cheating than that should be addressed. I don't see that adding a person in the boat is going to solve that. There's been plenty of cheating or bending of the rules by team sports throughout history.
I'm sure that you (Mr. Dobyns) would have no problems finding a thrid and with your abilities the risk of injury are not as great, but I see that poor guy in the middle not always having such a good time. Never mind the juvenille jokes but I can see a ripbait or two sticking somewhere other than the lips of fish :shock: .
I had to come back...I know...
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Gary Dobyns
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Re: One key point regarding solo teams...

Post by Gary Dobyns »

Rob T., you make way too much sense. Any of our organizations listening?
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Marc
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Adding a Third Person...

Post by Marc »

...makes the expenses in fishing tournaments one third less, making it a better value than 2 person teams.

It also allows a greater variety in fishing techniques to be employed, which will further grow our knowledge about bass fishing techniques.

It also will speed up weigh-ins and boat launching and retrieval as the duties can be split and handled concurrently.

Lots of possibilities here....

ciao,
Marc
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TheFLY
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Re: Adding a Third Person...

Post by TheFLY »

Hmmmmm ... I don't see it reducing costs (unless you only refer to gas, oil and launch fees) ... but if you kept entry fees the same (so that it would be cheapter for each entratnt) then you would simply be cutting the payout as teams would divide by 3 instead of 2.

I would think you would have to increase entry fees by 33% in order to make this desirable.
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Marc
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Reducing Costs...

Post by Marc »

...yes, having a third person cuts the cost of boat fuel, boat oil, ramp fees, miscellanious entry expenses like lie detector fees, insurance (charged as a separate fee per team by some circuits like ABA), and even fuel for the tow vehicle if the team drives to and from the tourney together.

Very significant to teams on a budget, or teams that travel long distances to fish tournaments like I do.
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Rob
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5 vs 7 fish

Post by Rob »

why did almost all orgs go to 5 fish? Seems to me that if a team can't both be there and need the points then one fishes and takes a little medicine (5 instead of 7)? Did the orgs all give in to try and entice more anglers? If any of the orgs are out there and can answer I'd sure appreciate it. I ain't been at this that long, but it wasn't that long ago that most all orgs were 7 fish........thoughts?

rob
NaCl
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Re: 5 vs 7 fish

Post by NaCl »

Rob,

Tournament are businesses. If the majority of their customers want a 5 fish limit, then they are going to comply. And, vice versa.

There are times when one member of a team is sick or out of town and the "team" has to be carried by a solo angler. That's a simple reality of life. I'd much rather fish in a circuit where I can fish alone without having an almost insurmountalbe two fish handicap. It is still stacked against the solo angler because two baits in the water are usually more productive than a single bait in the water. Consequently, if I am going to invest my hard earned work dollars in a team circuit, it will be one with a 5-fish limit. Enough anglers share this opinion that team circuits featuring 5-fish limits are doing well.

Again, it's just business!

.....NaCl
Cooch

Re: Reducing Costs...

Post by Cooch »

I have to dis-agree with ya somewhat Marc. I don't see it reducing the total costs. Entry fees and all, gas and rooms will remain the same. But it will spread the share of that cost over three anglers versus two anglers.

I think this is the angle the Fly was pointing too.
Cooch

Hey Gary, few, if any of them are listening!

Post by Cooch »

There are a few of us who have made the point and argument over the 5 vs 7 fish limits. The orgs have just about all gone to the 5 fish limit now. It's too bad, because they've taken the skill aspect out in an effort to put butts in the seats. In a sense, ya can understand that from a business standpoint. Yet bass fishing, unlike other sports such as golf, bowling, car racing, basketball, etc:, instead of allowing and forcing their players to improve their skills to beat those who seem to dominate at times, we make rules to even the competion. One of the reasons I've never been fond of the shared weight Pro-Ams, it turns the events into team tournaments.

It's good though, we have guys such as RobT, youself and me, that keep pounding this thought process out there, not allowing it to die. We have never seen the physical proof of the numbers these orgs use when they say they have polled their customers and this is what they want. And, we really have not seen any numbers supported on this Forum, over the past 6 years, that support the same. We tend to see more guys who'd prefer the higher limit numbers in these events. Guys I've spoken to at the ramp, like the bigger limits.

To many orgs, too many options, too many 30-45 boat fields with low payouts. Really the same old thing we've dicussed fer ages.
Rod Martin
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Re: Reducing Costs...

Post by Rod Martin »

I want to see 3 guys in 1 room for a 2 dayer at clear lake,That would be something to tell the wifes about. Honest honey we just slep in that bed! :roll:
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175 Boats - Why? How?

Post by Bob Simard »

Hey,

I fished started as an Am the last year WestCoast Bass was in business. I'm now fishing on the Pro side on several circuits. I know FLW/Stren draws a full field and BASS did last year I believe. But I don't see it in the other circuits. Why not? Is it simply to many choices creating scheduling conflicts?

I really like the ideas presented - 7 fish limit is a great suggestion.

Another thing I really like about large fields on multiple day tournaments is, with multiple flights that flip/flop on day 2, it also forces guys to find both a morning AND an afternoon bite, another field leveler....

-02 cents

Bob Simard
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