Won bass -pro-am

bassmeout · Post by **bassmeout** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:25 pm

To who it may concern,

I bet you won't have more than 25 boats this weekend... You want 100 anglers to show up @ 700 each and you want to give the guy in 20 place $700.00 back....

come in 20th place and you loose- pre fishing gas $400 or $500 - lodging $150 - baits $100 + $60 in food + another $100 for the drive home - that's a $900 in expenses + $700 entry = $1600 - I need to come in 8 place for you to Pay me back 2k so I can make $400 - sorry but the math don't work.

Good luck this weekend .

dwise · Post by **dwise** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:16 am

I'm all for freedom of speech, but if you don't like the payout structure then don't sign up. Find another organization that meets your requirements.

Have a little class. Is it really necessary for you to post your dissatisfaction with WON Bass on a public forum, then on top of that, not even sign your post with your real name?

Darlene Wise

Phil Burgess · Post by **Phil Burgess** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:31 am

or just get better at fishing!!!!

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:22 am

What the 2 above me said!!! I don't go to tournaments expecting to come in 20th or worse. Sounds like you lost already and probably should not enter any more tounaments. What a useless post!!

Jon Levenson

rickyshabazz · Post by **rickyshabazz** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:24 am

WON Bass is a great organization with great people. They offer a great place for anglers to get their start in pro level tournament fishing. The West needs them to be successful. I would be at Oroville this week fishing but like most people I work M-F and the change hurt me. However, I still support them and will be at the Delta in March (barring any additional changes).

A lot of us anglers in the West got our start in tournament fishing with WON Bass. If you have problems with their format and pay structure (of if you have suggestions of how things can be improved so that participation increases!) I would suggest that you contact Billy and have a conversation with him directly man to man. Hoping tournament organizations get low turnouts doesn’t help anyone and it’s just plain negative! I for one choose to stay positive!

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:24 am

very good phil

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:03 am

CLASSLESS.

Wonbass is doing a very good job in trying to get numbers up. Bashing is a joke and embarrassing.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:26 am

let the person have an opinion. If you dont like it then dont read it! Are we really trying to create a dictatorship in this country where folks should hide and be afraid to say how they feel?

A wild guess tells me you all drew your own line in the sand recently on some issue in your lives. Maybe this is his frustration and his line in the sand. I appreciate any comments and opinions to help me make my own mind up. RR

GKramer · Post by **GKramer** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:33 pm

Censure is anything but censorship, Rich--in either direction.

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:16 pm

sounds like he defeated before he hits the water

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:35 pm

George I think you are saying let everyone have an opinion. If so I agree and hope folks can work out their differences. I am an avid won bass supporter but also in my opinion free speech has made this site what it is today. maybe I should have titled my response peer pressure beat down?

I like listening to the rants and try to keep things in perspective and God knows I have my days when people tell me to lay off the coffee

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:23 pm

Ranting sounds more like complaining and when you start doing that you have no chance of ever winning. No matter what sport your in.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:17 pm

Define winning? Sounds like we all need to go out and catch some prespawn bass. My fingers hurt from "internet fishing"

bassmeout · Post by **bassmeout** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:46 pm

For all the Hitlers Out there, Are you fishing the event or are you Internet fishing ?

Dear won,

You want a full field ? Get some sponsors + the formula bellow and watch your numbers go up a lot !!!

300 pro side - payback 80%
150 co angler - payback 40% + sponsors gift
50 big fish option

Guarantees full field .... 150 boats for sure with a chance at maybe 200 boats

Big fish $ - 1st and 2nd - not such a thing as co angler big fish or pro side big fish - one purse for all

50 x 300= 15k
Anglers get 10k
Tourney org = 5k
Big fish 1) 3k x two days
Big fish 2) 2k x two days

150 x 300 = 45k
Tourney org keeps = 9k
Payback = 36.5k

150 x 150 = 22.5k
Tourney org keeps = 13.5k
Payback = 9k

Total purse = 82.5k
Won= 27.5k from tourney fee + $ from sponsors to get to your magic number !!!!!!
- if you draw over 100 boats + you will have more sponsors contributing to the cause.

philip garcia · Post by **philip garcia** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:01 pm

Sounds like bassmeout should start his own tournaments since he knows the right formula. All of the organizations do what they think is the right descision at the time and the consumers let them know if it works or not. The funny thing is that even if there was a 200 boat field I would bet that your name (whatever it is ) would still not be in the standings.And by the way yes I am fishing and I was confirmed entry #45 on the pro side so I guess who ever you bet you lost.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:22 pm

Good luck to ya phil I'll see you at the next one hope you do well. richie rich

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:19 am

Yeah, get some sponsors! Just walk into Anglers Marine, ask Rick for a Ranger boat for each event, and he'll prolly say "the heck with one boat, take two!" Way easier said than done...I guess whining on a public forum is way easier than calling up WON BASS and voicing concerns as well...

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:21 am

bassmeout wrote: You want a full field ? Get some sponsors + the formula bellow and watch your numbers go up a lot !!!

300 pro side - payback 80%
150 co angler - payback 40% + sponsors gift
50 big fish option

Guarantees full field .... 150 boats for sure with a chance at maybe 200 boats

Bassmeout, thanks for the funniest post I have seen in awhle... You can't be serious and think the payouts you describe would even get 10 boats much less 150-200

How many co's out there would fish for 40% of the pot to pay the pro side. My guess would be 5 at most so those 150-200 boats you speak of would only have 1 angler.

Your formula actually pays much less then the current model you are bitching about.

Darrin Bishop · Post by **Darrin Bishop** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:11 pm

Bassmeout has really hit the nail on the head! The current payout of pro-ams in California has no draw. It has nothing to do with entry fee, but a lack of sponsorship dollars. With the expense of traveling, fewer fisherman are willing to show up, and rightfully so. There truly needs to be a change in the tournament mentality of " supporting " an organization. The fisherman are the consumers and the organizations the suppliers. Give us a product that's worth buying!
You will not see me at Oroville, although it beats what I'm doing right now, because there isn't the opportunity to make money. This has nothing to with WON Bass, they are doing what they can. I hope to be able to do either the Clearlake or Diamond Valley event, because they offer the chance for a payday! Quit trying to market the same product differently and bring us something we can get excited about!
IMHO,
Darrin Bishop

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:48 pm

Well said Darrin

bassmeout · Post by **bassmeout** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:18 pm

Levy wrote:
bassmeout wrote: You want a full field ? Get some sponsors + the formula bellow and watch your numbers go up a lot !!!

300 pro side - payback 80%
150 co angler - payback 40% + sponsors gift
50 big fish option

Guarantees full field .... 150 boats for sure with a chance at maybe 200 boats

Bassmeout, thanks for the funniest post I have seen in awhle... You can't be serious and think the payouts you describe would even get 10 boats much less 150-200

How many co's out there would fish for 40% of the pot to pay the pro side. My guess would be 5 at most so those 150-200 boats you speak of would only have 1 angler.

Your formula actually pays much less then the current model you are bitching about.

Are you saying non boaters are there to make $ ? Cmon man, It's share weight - they are there to learn !!!! if they want to fish for $ pay an extra $150, gas the boat and there it goes you are fishing for money ......

This format will allow people to step up and fish !!!!

bassmeout · Post by **bassmeout** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:40 pm

Topwater Terry wrote:Yeah, get some sponsors! Just walk into Anglers Marine, ask Rick for a Ranger boat for each event, and he'll prolly say "the heck with one boat, take two!" Way easier said than done...I guess whining on a public forum is way easier than calling up WON BASS and voicing concerns as well...

You don't get it - NASCAR - golf - tennis ( they all do it )
I'm not taking about going after the hook line & sinker / anglers marine or freaking dobyns rods to sponsor you. This is California for god sake !!!!!!! Million - billion dollars corporations around almost every corner - yet every one keeps beating the same old little companies for sponsorship.

take a year off with no pro-ams - go call on Wells Fargo - get Valero or chevron - get apple to sponsor you ....Once you have the sponsors come back and talk to us anglers..... Think outside the box - what you doing right now its not freaking working !!!

Levy · Post by **Levy** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:38 am

I definately agree with Darrin and Bassmeout regarding Sponsors. The orgs really need to hunker down and make it happen. The first ORG to successfully do this will either force the other orgs to close or to follow suit. The more money or higher percentage of payback will certinally drive more anglers to fish IMHO.

Soemhow a little org called Tracy Bass is able to pay back 100% because they get Sponsors to chip in it would be nice to see more of the mid-level orgs able to do the same thing or preferably better since they get a better draw of anglers.

My 2 pennies.

Jon Levenson

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:11 am

Not that I have a stake in this post but WON has the biggest sponsor in all of fishing, Bass Pro Shops. They run commercials on ESPN all day long, not to mention all the other outdoor channels. There is where you go get your backing and I am sure they try, but the economy is still tough and money spent needs a return on investment which is just not there yet in California. As far as non fishing sponsors, Lucas Oil is a great one and they have some good plans for the West thru ABA. Rick

adman · Post by **adman** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:47 am

Just to add one more voice in this rhubarb: Having been the ad business for about a hundred years, with some of the biggest agencies and clients, the reason NASCAR, Golf and the other "sports" have big sponsors is based on the fact they provide MILLIONS of eyeballs on the events. If you can produce even a thousand eyeballs on a local tournament here in the West, with no television coverage, no print coverage no nothing but the few involved, you provide NO value to a sponsor, except for the smaller local companies. It is silly to think otherwise. Sponsorships are based on ROI and there is no ROI for our local tournaments. Period. CPM or cost per thousand means how much a client must pay to reach 1000 potential customers. Guess what a WON Bass or any local org can offer as a CPM.

I don't think we will ever be doing anything more than fishing for our own money, if we want orgs involved they need to make money to operate. It's time to face the fact that we in the West are far removed from the large numbers of bass fishing fans and if you think you are going to cover you expenses let alone "make money" fishing local tournaments out here you are bound to be disappointed.

I know this conversation has been had many times before on this forum but the truth is if you want to make money bass fishing and you think you are good enough, pack up and move east because it won't happen out here.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:13 pm

very well said and what I have been saying for many years! I think Jared ,Skeet Amart etc would love to stay here but you have to play where the playground is. Some have dual residences but most of the time moving is the only option. The facts and the truth hurts but our options are fish for our own money with larger pay down the line with less top heavy payout. Low entry fees and realistic sponsor involvement.

I am amazed at the amount of sponsors won bass has on their web page but I am sure there is an answer to that as well. Maybe many sponsors but at at a very low contribution level. I am sure that is Bob T's personal business and not really ours.

elfish16 · Post by **elfish16** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:40 pm

adman wrote:Just to add one more voice in this rhubarb: Having been the ad business for about a hundred years, with some of the biggest agencies and clients, the reason NASCAR, Golf and the other "sports" have big sponsors is based on the fact they provide MILLIONS of eyeballs on the events. If you can produce even a thousand eyeballs on a local tournament here in the West, with no television coverage, no print coverage no nothing but the few involved, you provide NO value to a sponsor, except for the smaller local companies. It is silly to think otherwise. Sponsorships are based on ROI and there is no ROI for our local tournaments. Period. CPM or cost per thousand means how much a client must pay to reach 1000 potential customers. Guess what a WON Bass or any local org can offer as a CPM.

I don't think we will ever be doing anything more than fishing for our own money, if we want orgs involved they need to make money to operate. It's time to face the fact that we in the West are far removed from the large numbers of bass fishing fans and if you think you are going to cover you expenses let alone "make money" fishing local tournaments out here you are bound to be disappointed.

I know this conversation has been had many times before on this forum but the truth is if you want to make money bass fishing and you think you are good enough, pack up and move east because it won't happen out here.

Pretty much sums it up right here!

kitjack · Post by **kitjack** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:39 pm

I hate to break the bad news, but if you can't make money out here on your local favorite pond fishing local team events and regional Pro Am's you definitely won't be able to make money fishing back east, on unfamiliar waters against the big boys.

This notion that if you pay to enter a bass tournament you suddenly a professional athlete is ridiculous. These regional Pro Am events give you an opportunity to fish in a competitive event and to develop your skills and test yourself against other serious anglers. In all tournaments the guys who win get paid, and most guys donate. It's no different at the World Series of Poker where only 10% get a check.

If you do really well, you may be ready for the next step. But you definitely are not ever going to do well back east, or do well out here without paying your dues first. Most professional athletes and the top bass fishermen are sponsored, and the money they make competing is a bonus. To get to that point you need to fish and win, and do a good job promoting your own brand.

Darrin Bishop · Post by **Darrin Bishop** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:34 pm

Personally, I have no desire to try and fish for a "living". There are many at the national level who are chasing a passion and a dream, at their own expense. However, if California organizations want to gain customers there needs to be a large enough payout to justify the expense, otherwise you're only drawing local talent. Most guys don't understand the expense of fishing an event 7-8 hours from home. This is why we are having 50 boat events.
IMHO
Darrin

CN · Post by CN » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:56 pm

I don't fish tournament's but I have fished for Bass forever and live on the Central Coast. The Company I work for sponser's alot of Tournament's and were not related to the fishing industry at all. Yet what we sponser are event's along the Gulf Coast mainly Red Fish event's. A freind I keep in touch with in Texas sent picture's of an event he helped on. The amount of spectator's was amazing. The interest you are looking for here in California is the problem unless you unite and or consolodate you have what you have the way I see it.

It is nice to see post's from a few that do fish these event's and their view's.

kitjack · Post by **kitjack** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:28 am

What exactly are you attacking WON BASS for in this thread ? If the payback was 5% higher and you got a check for $2,100 instead of $2,000 are you saying that you would be in great shape and life would be so much better ?

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:08 pm

Guys spend a lot of money playing golf...others spend a lot going out of state hunting, trap and skeet shooting cost a ton too. There are lots of hobbies that we all enjoy and the cost a lot. But, we do them for FUN. I love to fish. I love the competition. I love seeing my fishing buddies at tournaments. Yes I love to win money but I fish tournaments for FUN too. It's true we used to fish for a lot more money ( boats ) but those days are gone. As long as the orgs don't completely screw us ( some do ) I'll try and be there to see my buds and meet new ones, a little competition, bragging rights, try to earn a few bucks, and have FUN!!

Face it, if you want to try and make a living fishing...pack your bags and head East. If you want to make a few bucks, fish in competition, and have FUN...check out our local circuits for one that fits you.

No one on here wants to talk about the FUN FACTOR. You can't put everything into dollars and cents.

Getting sponsors is very hard these days. I do know that first hand with failure of OHI

adman · Post by **adman** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:54 pm

Perfectly put. Maybe we should quit calling tournaments "Pro-Ams" forget the notion of a Pro...professional means you make your living doing whatever it is...and the difference between a PRO and even a very talented amateur is huge in every sport I can think of including ours. I fish tournaments because I really enjoy the competitive aspect. If I couldn't fish in tournaments I would probably soon stop fishing it would just get a bit boring. (Maybe not...) I pick tournaments that fit my schedule, are someplace I either enjoy fishing or would like to learn. I like to see how I'll do against guys who really know the lake or are hot at the moment. I like to see if I can figure things out quickly enough to do well, etc.I'm lucky I don't have to count every penny, if I did I probably wouldn't fish cause it ain't cheap, but I don't expect an organizing company to not make money because I don't want to pony up... they are all my choices based on my circumstances.

I guess some of these organizers are better than others, I don't know which is which, don't really care. If a tournament is well run, takes care of the fishermen and the fish, creates an atmosphere of friendliness and professionalism, I'm happy. Without them we go back to turkeyshoots, which are okay I guess but I'd hate for them to be the only alternative.

Oh well I've typed more on this one subject than I have as long as I've been on this board, so forgive me, I guess I have an opinion about this and am a bit tired of poseurs with all the answers. I will now stfu.

Keith Bryan · Post by **Keith Bryan** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:55 am

You know first off. To everybody that fished, way to go. For the guys, gals that wanted to and couldn’t, see you at the next one, look forward to it. Thank you WONBASS you did a great job top to bottom. You got the info up very quick, weigh-ins were good and the atmosphere was great, so great job. I had two great partners and we laughed our Butts off and caught tons of fish, and we had a blast, along with the tremendous competitive aspect, that’s what it’s all about for me. Not to mention, how beautiful that lake is.

Simply put in my small world view. If we support the current organizations with all we can and stay positive then it’s a win win for everyone. We attract new comers to our great sport by spreading the positive word with all means of media necessary. Interaction amongst us whether it’s in the boat, at the weigh-ins, on the forums, in media etc., the positive word ALWAYS prevails and that’s a given. Nit picking and negativity lose big time, always have and ALWAYS will.

If a better mouse trap comes along and it’s great for the sport then great. If not, look at what you have in front of your face and if you want to fish we are all welcome. There aren’t any guarantees on this earth, so enjoy it now. One foot in yesterday and one foot in tomorrow is certainly Pi$$ing on today and that isn’t good for anyone.

I’ve always given no credence to folks who don’t post their name at least in signing off, never quite figured that one out and it has to be mentioned, feel good about who you are and your beliefs.

GO NINERS

Keith Bryan

crawdaddy · Post by **crawdaddy** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:26 am

Speaking as someone who fished this event, I would like to make a few comments.

It was a little inconvenient to change the dates but everyone I talked to liked it.
The field was smaller but thats to be expected with no end of the year championship.
The lake fished a little tough but many fish were caught.

I am not in favor of the changes WON Bass made to the pro/am season; specifically no end of the year tournament. The reason I chose to continue to fish them is very simple, if we just sit out and bitch there will be no affordable pro/ams to fish. FLW is not affordable to many and not a wise investment to some. WON and AC both provide for lower entry fee events that those of us who are new to pro/ams can hone our angling skills at an affordable rate. It seems that any time a new format comes up people come out of the woodworks to complain about it. It sounds like old issues between people that drive this crap and it sucks for those of us that would like to be able to do this for the foreseeable future. Everyone has a right to their opinion but unless you are willing to step up and do something about it why don't you just listen to the advice your parents should have given you about not having anything nice to say.

Scott Crawford

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:18 pm

Gary,

I think we all dont look at your effort as a failure. Even if you do, every successful person I have ever known or read about has put it all on the line and failed. The ones that got up and dusted themselves off and went out there to potentially fail again were the most successful.

I personally think you guys made a smart business decision. Your points are well taken and you are right on it is about having FUN!!!!!

Please try again at your tournament business cause folks are tired of you runnin everyone over on the tournament trails

take your kid with ya too!!!! I have already made the check out to you guys for the next oroville pro/am

Gary Dobyns · Post by **Gary Dobyns** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:37 pm

[quote="Rich hamilton"]Gary,

I think we all dont look at your effort as a failure. Even if you do, every successful person I have ever known or read about has put it all on the line and failed. The ones that got up and dusted themselves off and went out there to potentially fail again were the most successful.

I personally think you guys made a smart business decision. Your points are well taken and you are right on it is about having FUN!!!!!

Please try again at your tournament business cause folks are tired of you runnin everyone over on the tournament trails

take your kid with ya too!!!! I have already made the check out to you guys for the next oroville pro/am

[/quote]

Thanks for the laugh Rich. We do need FUN back in our sport. It's been a long time since I ran anyone over

It was nice to catch them and not be a has been

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:53 pm

I thought tournament fishing was about having fun and not always about the money.

doug77 · Post by **doug77** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:54 am

Good topic-alot of valid points made-both sides.I agree that out West much of the value is seeing and meeting good people.I miss some of my buddies that I dont see as often as I used too.But I still CAN NOT FIGURE OUT WHY WON refuses to post their payouts-after the tournament?I cant sell my products without a price tag

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:27 pm

doug77 wrote:Good topic-alot of valid points made-both sides.I agree that out West much of the value is seeing and meeting good people.I miss some of my buddies that I dont see as often as I used too.But I still CAN NOT FIGURE OUT WHY WON refuses to post their payouts-after the tournament?I cant sell my products without a price tag

They did post their payouts for this last event, which is a good thing. On the other hand, I can meet and see a lot of good people without paying $700 to do it. My question, although some may think i don't have a right to ask since I don't live in CA anymore is... was the entry fee for the two free early bird entry entry winners put in to the payout by WON, or was it just a nod nod wink wink sort of thing?

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:44 pm

jiggin4bass wrote:I thought tournament fishing was about having fun and not always about the money.

Its all about the money!!! The money you lose, and the money you win! I have NOT won chit in days.

F the fish..

yjjustforme · Post by **yjjustforme** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:16 pm

I like the fact that he has the balls to come out and say what he feels even though he already knew he was gonna get lynched by all the won bass participants. Yes he just like you all have the right to freedom of speech ( when you guys attack him for speaking his mind, your exercising your freedom of speech as well by attacking him) and he can say whatever he feels like. Just cause you guys don't like it that doesn't mean he has to go kick rocks and bite his tongue. If he doesn't wanna fish it then and has a logical explanation for it then more power to him. I applaud you sir for standing up and voicing your opinion!!!!

jiggin4bass · Post by **jiggin4bass** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:22 pm

You can always take up and start bowling in tournaments there never a shortage of places that hold tournaments and if your good enough you can make some good cash. Tournament money and side pots. im looking foward too bowling in the senior PBA coming up this season

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