TOC expenses & why participation is down.

[Old dog]

We fished the AC TOC at Oroville last weekend and here are our expenses to fish the event. Granted we pre-fished 6 days but if you truly want to give yourself a chance to do well 6 days is pretty much a minimum if you don't fish a lake on a regular basis. This in no way this is a shot at AC as this is pretty much the same for all circuits, and they ran a great event.
1. Tournament entry $450 ( All options and $50 tournament fee). 2. 5 nights in a motel $440. 3. Gas for the tow vehicle, 3 round trips to the lake from Fremont 1200 miles, $300. 4. 10 meals (for 2) at Gold City Grill $280. 5. 8 launch fees $13/ea = $104. 6. Boat gas 8 days of fishing $275. 7. Missed 3-5 days of work. I know this varies for everyone but it is a valid consideration if you have to travel any distance to get to the location. So just for S&G's let's say $400. So without any misc. expenses, tackle, wear and tear, etc. etc. the total is $2,240.00
This was a TOC and because of this the expenses are inflated, but when I used to fish pro-am's, 100% & WON, I would make this kind of comittment.

Why is participation down and why do guys want to fish local?
1. The above is the #1 reason in my opinion. The economy is down and the area we live in is one of the most expensive areas to live in so disposable $$ for recreation are limited.
2. When I was young and had some success doing this sponsorship money was readily available. Young people now find it almost impossible to find sponsorship of any kind. This kind of help makes it so much easier to get started.
3. As we get older we have more comittments, at home, at work, running our business. As we get closer to retirement we start watching our spending more closely. So as the baby boomers start dropping out, due to the above, and medical reasons there are not as many youngsters ready to take our places. They don't have an income level yet that allows them to participate on a regular basis.
4. The dreaded perception that the "locals" always win.
So we want to fish local to keep expenses down and we feel we have a better chance to do well if we stay close to home. If tournament organizations had never started having just localized circuits the spiral we're in would probably be less pernounced. Sorry old guys but we only have ourselves to blame because, if you talk to the old TD's, this is what we wanted and in some cases demanded.

[Ray Coleman]

I think your figures are close and your point is valid. We look at fishing tournaments as a money making hobbie. If we were playing softball, bowling etc in a semi serious league the expectation would not be that we would make money or even break even. Granted the afore mention activities aren't nearly as expensive.
Personally, I expect that my hobbie (tournament fishing) is going to cost me money. Maybe small local tournaments are the answer. It would consume far less time an resources than the major "fish offs". It would still grow the sport and keep interest high.
Having said all of that.... I will be at the fish-off .

[Old dog]

The truth is I've always just fished for fun with the hope if winning a little money. The trouble is the fun is getting so damn expensive.

[Old dog]

That's kind of a lie. When I was younger winning meant everything to me. I'm still not over my poor performance on day one of the TOC, we had a good bounce back day Sunday. We moved from 50th to 21.

[McLovin]

This is why I decided not to fish oroville also. Its just to much money to spend, on a lake i havn't been on in two years. I like fishing oroville, but theres only so much money left at the end of the month. You can call me a zip code fisherman all you want, but my money goes alot further the closer to home I fish.

[Ceaser]

This is why I decided not to fish oroville also. Its just to much money to spend, on a lake i havn't been on in two years. I like fishing oroville, but theres only so much money left at the end of the month. You can call me a zip code fisherman all you want, but my money goes alot further the closer to home I fish.

yep I love being a zipcode fisherman. Its fun to go different places but with my backyard being the water I cant see how its a negative that I prefer to only fish my local body of water... thats loaded with giants that eat all year. Or I could go to orville and pay a couple hundred for a day with gas and expenses to try and catch a 12lb limit. I really cant see how that would do any good. That zipcode fisherman thing is crazy, I dont see why anyone cares if a guy wants to stay close to home and fish his home body of water all the time. It takes a long time to figure out any lake really well and maximize your catch. but tournaments have always been a soap opera of complaints. Ill stay one my local water and leave that traveling all over to the rich guys.

[crawdaddy]

Hey Dog thats a nice breakdown and sounds about right on for me as well. A few other things to consider is the cost of decent equipment is very high a high end combo will set you back a grand and a decent combo is about $250. If you count how many you have the math gets ugly in a hurry. If I was a teenager cutting grass or busing tables like I used to do I would probably not be interested in fishing as it is so expensive just for the basics. That is what will most likely kill this sport in the end is the pricing out of our next generation of fishermen. Just my $0.02.

[Grape Ape]

Speaking just for myself....I don't think I will be going to another T.O.C. or whatever you want to call the championships. Just not worth the expense to me. The other thing that bothers me about most of these.....just about everyone qualifies. 150 boats plus for a Championship? Obviously it's not about the anglers......it's all about the $$$ and that's the way I feel when I go to these things. Changing up this year.....fishing where and and when I feel like it. Not getting "hooked" into any series. Back to having fun with this sport.

[Old dog]

The high #s of boats at a TOC is a sponsor thing. I have been a good friend of Korny, who started 100%, and part of his dream was to have qualifying for a TOC be an accomphishment in itself . So his first couple of TOCs were small events with just the very top fishermen qualifying, 40-50 boats. The problem was his the sponsors wanted bigger crowds at the TOCs, so Bobby had to change his qualifying format to generate a bigger crowd.

[mark poulson]

Old time politicians will tell you, "It's the economy, stupid".
When people have jobs, and money, they fish. When they don't, they bitch.

[J. Walker]

I also fished the AC TOC this year and the boat count was about as I expected.

It's interesting reading about why people don't fish events like this, I agree, I think it would be great to make it more of a challenge to qualify but understand these circuits need numbers to make it work.

I know money is tight and all, for myself included, and maybe I'm in a different situation than others but don't fully understand the zip code fisherman thing. Are you guys zip code fishermen that fish tournaments? This was my 4th year of fishing tourneys so I can't speak of how things used to be. But I grew up fishing and have always been a competitive guy and love it. I have learned more about fishing these past 4 years than the rest of my life combined. Mostly because I choose to travel to different bodies of water and feel I am a much better fisherman now than I was, by no means am I anywhere near good yet. I would like to think that everyone who fishes wants to be better and try to understand this sport of ours.

I feel that an angler of the year in a traveling division is about as good as it gets out here right now, means your a consistent fisherman that understands what's going on. That's my personal goal, not just to be a 1 lake wonder.

This is my observation and not saying everyone needs to agree, but can't see tournaments getting any better here unless some others at least share some of my perspective.

[Dom]

That figure is almost right, first if its TEAMS you and your partner are splitting that cost between the both of you right down the middle and if not you need a new partner who can carry their weight . Next I know a lot of guys use their vacation time for the time off all year long If you don't get vacation time, get a new job. So loosing pay can be taken out of that. Gas is up no doubt, but for hotels I am booking my hotels months and weeks in advance thru Expedia My son and I are fishing the FPT this year and we have Oroville coming up next week and I got us a room at Days Inn in Oroville for 2 nights (going up early Thursday Morning and pre-fishing 2 days) for $70.00 bucks that's 35.00 bucks a night thru Expedia. Food ? That can be all over the place we have had dollar menu meals and nice sit down meals where the bill is $70.00 for for 2 of us , so really its up to you. Entry fees FPT with options 150.00 bucks . Point is if a guy or team really wanted to compete you could for a reasonable expected cost. We live in Tracy and we have had to travel to Clear Lake twice, Folsom, Delta (my zip code that was cheap and a 2 day event) and just last week Berryessa this includes 2 days pre-fish and I am spending about $500.00 to $600.00 a tournament So on the high side 600.00 x 6 that's $3,600.00 now split that in half $1,800.00 each for the year !! and I am dad so I am flipping most of that all by myself, if I had a partner and we split it that's pretty cheap.

I get what your saying but if ya wanna compete you can pull it off and the FPT TOC only 60 teams get to go 1 in 60 chance to win a boat and motor!! Them are good odds Granted this is an AM circuit but even at 400.00 in the pro teams split 2 ways that's only 200 bucks each . I am lucky I went to my Boss told him it was my sons first year competing and we needed a sponsor he asked what he could do for us and after some negotiating he ended up sponsoring me the time off paid to pre-fish (does not come out of my vacation), entry fees for the whole year.

And since we are doing good this year he has already informed me he has budget us in for next year. Never know unless you ask hit your bosses up I am not gloating or trying to sound like a butt all I am saying is those numbers up top are scary and I just want guys and gals to know you can compete and have a great time and even win some money if you just plan Tight Lines Dom

[Fish Trap]

One circuit where participation is up The FPT. Vince is having a large turnout. Fairly local, with close lakes, not large entry fees (considering) and a TOC that does not allow everyone in. You have to "qualify" to make it. Meaning even if you fish all events you are not guaranteed a spot. I have seen a lot of bashing for this circuit but the numbers speak for themselves. So far this year every tournament has had over a 100 boat field in the Northern Division including a few small boat field of 3 to 6 per tournament. 135 boats Clear Lake, 115 Folsom, 111 Clear Lake, 117 Delta, 107 Berryessa, and the last tournament Oroville?? Lets see how many show up for that. Even though some of the lakes are far depending on where you live people still seem to travel. Just sayin.... I think some of the other circuits just don't have it together like Vince. He always puts on a good show and has some good sponsors.

[Dom]

Fish Trap EXACTLY!!!

[J. Walker]

I agree with dom and fish trap, traveling really is doable. I guess the other part is this is my only hobby, don't hunt, golf etc. I have the time and money for 1 hobby. Love that Dom and others are doing this with their kids too. I live about 40 mins from clear lake and my oldest is only 3, but by next summer 100 fish days with the kids will be a blast at oroville and I will travel for that experience alone.

[Turkeyman]

Yes it is expensive, what isn't? But it's what we love to do.
I myself am getting ready to go to the ABA TOC at Clear Lake next week, we are taking up my RV and there will be 4 of us sharing the cost, $22 a night for 4 nights shared by 4 guys only $22 for lodging, each bring a frozen or easy to cook meal for 1 night, sandwiches for lunches, so our real expenses will be fuel and options.
Any hobby is expensive and I fish to have fun, if I make some money great, if not I want it to be fun and not regret it.

[Ceaser]

I also fished the AC TOC this year and the boat count was about as I expected.

It's interesting reading about why people don't fish events like this, I agree, I think it would be great to make it more of a challenge to qualify but understand these circuits need numbers to make it work.

I know money is tight and all, for myself included, and maybe I'm in a different situation than others but don't fully understand the zip code fisherman thing. Are you guys zip code fishermen that fish tournaments? This was my 4th year of fishing tourneys so I can't speak of how things used to be. But I grew up fishing and have always been a competitive guy and love it. I have learned more about fishing these past 4 years than the rest of my life combined. Mostly because I choose to travel to different bodies of water and feel I am a much better fisherman now than I was, by no means am I anywhere near good yet. I would like to think that everyone who fishes wants to be better and try to understand this sport of ours.

I feel that an angler of the year in a traveling division is about as good as it gets out here right now, means your a consistent fisherman that understands what's going on. That's my personal goal, not just to be a 1 lake wonder.

This is my observation and not saying everyone needs to agree, but can't see tournaments getting any better here unless some others at least share some of my perspective.

Theres infinite knowledge to be learned fishing any body of water, tourneys or not. Not really sure why people get so excited if a guy wants to stay at home, on the body of water he knows best, and use the hard earned knowledge to compete. I live ON THE WATER on the CA Delta. Havent been doing the tourneys the last years due to life but, what sense would it make for a guy like to me drive all over NORCAL to fish other lakes when one of the best and most diverse fishery in the USA in my backyard. I commute extra to work and other places because I LOVE TO FISH enough that I choose commute to work not the lake. Having fished lots of lakes in years past, its an easy choice for me to stay in my zipcode. Chance at a limit of a lifetime and huge fish or go to orville and catch a 15lb limit on a great day. TO me orville makes very little sense, because my choice is to catch big fish. I thought fishing, tournaments or any other form of the sport was for PERSONAL enjoyment. Why rip on guys who like to stay local and really understand their fishery in depth, Bill Murphy was a big advocate of this, a big bass legend and innovator. Im waiting for a team trail to have their TOC on the Delta again, then I can fish a Delta series, qualify for the TOC and have it on my home lake. TOC at Orville, no thanks, but thats just a personal choice.. Dont understand why its such a big deal. Call it what you want but I like to play when the odds are tipped in my favor.

[barse41]

Dont understand why its such a big deal. Call it what you want but I like to play when the odds are tipped in my favor.

But when everyone has that mentality, the tourney scene sucks. Like it does now.

[Ray Coleman]

Either way is right. It's just what you prefer. Numbers are down no matter which way you do. Support any way you can.

[Dom]

Ceaser my fellow angler you were onto something there then you went and ruined it with your last statement

I like to play when the odds are tipped in my favor.

T hat's the problem. I respect an angler more who can beat me consistently on different bodies of water under different conditions . I hate paying my money only to see the local guy come out and whip me on his water . Ill give your body of water to you , ok you got me. Now come on lets go to the other bodies of water and see how you do. I think the point of tournament fishing is to be good and consistant under any conditions or body of water . How many guys on the BASS or FLW would love to just fish his home lake all the time ? But they cant they must perform at all lakes . So your question was why the big deal ? well that's the big deal I don't think a guy can be considered a good tournament angler if all he is gonna do is fish his zip code. Just my 0.02 Tight Lines

[Ceaser]

Ceaser my fellow angler you were onto something there then you went and ruined it with your last statement

I like to play when the odds are tipped in my favor.

T hat's the problem. I respect an angler more who can beat me consistently on different bodies of water under different conditions . I hate paying my money only to see the local guy come out and whip me on his water . Ill give your body of water to you , ok you got me. Now come on lets go to the other bodies of water and see how you do. I think the point of tournament fishing is to be good and consistant under any conditions or body of water . How many guys on the BASS or FLW would love to just fish his home lake all the time ? But they cant they must perform at all lakes . So your question was why the big deal ? well that's the big deal I don't think a guy can be considered a good tournament angler if all he is gonna do is fish his zip code. Just my 0.02 Tight Lines

Everyone has a right to there opinion but even when FLW and BASSMASTER guys hear there the classic and or championship will be on their home body of water they freak out and make sure they qualify, so we should take away from someone when they win on their home water? Lots and Lots of tourneys are won by guy fishing a lake they dont call home. And If i went to Orville or Pedro or Shasta i could care less if a local guy whips me, thats the game, you travel there will always be locals there. But to take something away from a guy who only does well at home is wrong in my opinion. And what you think the point of tournaments are has no relavence on what they mean for another guy. As with if a guys considered a "GOOD" tournament fisherman, you can place just out of the $$ in all events and be right in there for AOY standings, but does that make a good tournament angler? To some, if being consistent is your goal, and if it is fine. But these events arent FLW or BASS where AOY has some prize $$ awarded. THere is one reason why I think about fishing tourneys anymore.... its to win $$$$ why the hell else show up and play if your not there to take everyones cash. I can fish the same day, weigh my fish and know exactly how well I did against all the competitors for the day... and I wouldnt have to donate my $$ to the guys there to win. Believe you me, most of the guys taking the $$ are there for just that, the $$$. It costs to much to pre fish alot and stay on top of fish, just to show up game day and go home with a free bag of worms. When I was young and just starting tourneys, I just wanted the experience but I soon realized if your not there to win cash and feel you have a reasonable chance to do so, then you are just donating your cash to guys there to handle business. I say the hell with traveling, I dont fish to show off and prove how good of a "tournament" fisherman I am or raise others opinion of me... i could care less, im out there to catch the biggest fish I can everyday. I guess other cats like the glamour and glitz. Ive been around this scene a pretty freaking long time and because I choose to do so in my own way... maybe i am a crappy tourney fisherman and not that good, dont take pictures of all my BIG fish so theres no proof, i could be a liar about what i do.... but I dont do this stuff 150+ days a year for everyone else... its cuz I love to fish my home water... all the time... and pop in now and then to tourneys and try and win some extra cash... cuz paying 300$ to fish half a day isnt my idea of FUN when I can do it for 25$ gas money. Pay to play to win.

[Dom]

Ok whats your zip code water?

[Dom]

[/quote]no relavence on what they mean for another guy. As with if a guys considered a "GOOD" tournament fisherman, you can place just out of the $$ in all events and be right in there for AOY standings, but does that make a good tournament angler?[/quote]


By all means YES!!! And winning is everything in this sport but if you cant win, being consistant and showing you can catch em anywhere. anytime on any body of water tells me the guy has it figured out and he is good, he understands the big picture and what it takes to catch em . But to each his own I personally don't like the cherry pickin but hey it makes me feel good when I can beat em in there zip code Tight lines to you and no hard feelings we are brothers by a common denominator We love this sport of bass fishing

[Ceaser]

Good Im glad your not upset, I have no issues, my point was fishing is an individual sport. Everyone should do what makes them happy. Im just not really interested in targeting 4-5lb fish unless its for money really. Ive traveled and tried to put good limits in the boat and be versitile. At that time it made me feel like a good angler. But for me now, I dont care about consistencey or 4-5lbers but I dont think any less of anyone for wanting to fish for them and focus on tourneys. that really awesome, I just got burned out. But with the fishing I do know I dont get alot of bites, go many trips without a single bite.. but when I get em they can be giant and ive Loaded the boat somedays. that makes me feel like a good angler now, DD's on big baits. but im sure going weeks without many bites doesnt sound like fun to many other people.. but it works for me. And when I feel froggy I pick up the baby baits and throw my hat in the ring... november maybe...

[toddmc]

You can site any number of reasons for the decline in participation, but money is usually number one during tougher times. The prizes also become less with declining participation, and this keeps people at home. Besides, as has been said, it's comforting to know that you are not wasting your money fishing less productive waterways when your home water is plenty productive.