Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

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Ex walker
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 9:18 am

Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Ex walker » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:00 am

Thinking of switching to lithium batteries. The main reason is the weight difference. If I am figuring it right, I will save about two hundred pounds . currently running 1yr old odyssey batteries and love them, but there heavy. My Tr210 is heavy, then ad power poles and its slow out of the hole. Anyone want to share there knowledge on lithium batteries.
Did the weight difference have any effect on hole shot.
How's the performance
Where did you get your batteries ?

Thanks

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scottsweet
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Location: Campbell, CA

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby scottsweet » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:58 am

I would consider the Ionic batteries. Yes, they make a big difference. However, you need to be sure you get a "starter" version of the lithium for your main battery. Not all lithium batteries can start your big motor.

The Ionic batteries have a built in bluetooth device that allows you to run an app on your phone to check the status of the charge.

Some people will actually do 5 batteries. 1 - Starter battery (can be smaller). 2. House battery for electronics, 3. Trolling motor batteries. This really depends on how much you fish and the amount of electronics you have. Folks with 4 graphs and other devices, the one lithium cranking battery may not be enough.
Scott Sweet

www.teamccmarine.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.humminbird.com
www.minnkotamotors.com
www.lews.com
www.phenixrods.com
www.odysseybattery.com
www.simmsfishing.com
www.peregrine250.com

Paul Matthews
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Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Paul Matthews » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:01 am

Lithium Pro all the way. Why buy 3 12 v batteries when you can get 1 36 v or 2 if you run banks a lot. The 110 amp starting battery is spot on. Been running them for 5 years on 2 different boats. Had an issue early on and they stepped up. Since then no problems. You get what you pay for

Ex walker
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Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Ex walker » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:52 am

Hey Scott, what ah batteries you running.
100ah or 125ah for starting ?
50ah or 100ah for trolling motor ?
If you are running the 50ah, do you wish you would have got the 100ah for trolling motor?

bass343
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby bass343 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:02 pm

I have a Battle Born Battery. 100% made in the USA out of Reno Nevada. Most lithium batteries are made in China. Buy American. Check out thier website.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/

TXRIGGED
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:19 pm

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby TXRIGGED » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:46 am

Trolling: I have two 36V in parallel Lithium Pros on the one side. I usually have my TM speed set at 4-6 throughout the day. I don’t haul butt often cuz I don’t want to smack a stump and bust my TM shaft. I have gone three days without having to charge....I don’t recommend doing this though as I’ve been told it’s not good to drain batteries down too low. But, if I go out on a full charge, come in after a long day, recharge takes like maybe an hour. I love em! No signs of power drop throughout the day, 7 year warranty, peace of mind!!! For the TM, it’s a no brainer....do it.

Cranking/Accessories: I run a Odyssey. 81 lbs!!! It’s a beast. I have a Solix 15 at bow, two 12’s at console. Never a problem starting my engine, even after a long day of practice. I’m religous about putting bow graph in sleep mode when running. I do get the signal on my graph though that I have low voltage, and I think the Solix units are mis-interpreting what I really have in power at the battery.....ie voltage drop through cable to bow. At the end of day my bow graph will reboot upon cranking engine.

Next step: First step is I’m upgrading my power cables to the graphs with shielded 10ga wire. This should help with my bow graph from seeing voltage drops with my current thinner power wire. Second.....jury is out on the lithium Vs AGM. I definitely want the weight reduction on that side, and the benefit of how lithium delivers all 12.8V continuously then quickly drops VS how lead acid or AGM batts slowly diminish throughout the day. But, I was told to be careful, as the 85amp alternator on motor may overcharge a lithium and it could have pose issues upstream to the motherboard. I thought the bus-panel would alleviate, but I’m no electrical engineer. Lots of MLF and Elite guys are running Lith for TM and AGM for crank/accessories.

I’ve considered adding a separate 12V lith for just the graphs....going next week to a graph installation expert to check on a transducer issue I’m having,..., I’ll ask more questions. Hope to share more insights later next week.

Hope some of this helps.

Ex walker
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Ex walker » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Thanks for that info. I like the idea of lithium batteries for the trolling motor and use my odyssey for starting.
Can I use my four bank charger to do this ?

Oh_Son
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Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Oh_Son » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:43 pm

Battle born, Agm/odyssey starting and minkota precision.
No problems

Kolt45
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Kolt45 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:15 pm

Ex walker wrote:Thanks for that info. I like the idea of lithium batteries for the trolling motor and use my odyssey for starting.
Can I use my four bank charger to do this ?


If you're going to switch to Lithium (LiFePO 4) and run your existing AGM for starting, your charger will have to have the capacity to charge both profiles. I went the opposite route and upgraded my starting/electronics to the Relion LiFePO 4 and bought a charger specifically profiled for the LIthium algorithm. I stayed with AGM for my TM batteries, thus maintaining two different onboard chargers. So far, so good. Compatibility is paramount. When you decide to buy, make sure you call the battery manufacturer before dropping the hammer on your bank account.

Rob
Posts: 125
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Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Rob » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm

bass343 wrote:I have a Battle Born Battery. 100% made in the USA out of Reno Nevada. Most lithium batteries are made in China. Buy American. Check out thier website.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/


I run Battleborns as well since 2017. But just to clarify they are designed and assembled in the US. I believe all cells come from China spec’d to BB design. But they are a great and best warranty in the business.

From their website “ Our batteries are built to last for years. Designed and assembled right here in the USA, you can be sure that you are getting the best batteries on the market backed by top level customer service.”

Ex walker
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Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Ex walker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:44 am

Just got off the phone with battle born batteries. They are telling me at full speed , I would only get one hour of run time on my trolling motor using three 12v lithium batteries in parallel (36v) and about 5 to 7 hours run time at 20% power. :shock:
They want me to run three 100 ah batteries. That's a lot of money.
And they don't recommend a lithium battery for the starting motor.
You guys running battle born, what are you running three 50ah or 100ah ?

This is getting confusing, I am getting conflicting info.

kevin pugh
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:57 pm

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby kevin pugh » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:35 pm

What batteries are you using now and have they been performing as needed, If you are constantly running at at or near 50% you should have 100 Ah. If under 50 AH may work fine
3 50 AH battery's will do about the same as most 3 grp 27s
Long term cost cost is about the same, but you drop at least 100 maybe as much as 160 lbs of weight depending on what you have and what you install

Leon Pugh

Kolt45
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Kolt45 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:00 pm

Ex walker wrote:Just got off the phone with battle born batteries. They are telling me at full speed , I would only get one hour of run time on my trolling motor using three 12v lithium batteries in parallel (36v) and about 5 to 7 hours run time at 20% power. :shock:
They want me to run three 100 ah batteries. That's a lot of money.
And they don't recommend a lithium battery for the starting motor.

This is getting confusing, I am getting conflicting info.


Relion Liths are 100% compatible with Mercury outboards. Not sure why they're telling you not to run a lith for the starting motor, unless you already told them what motor you're running and they have all the data they need to make that recommendation. Or, are they just going for the $$$ ?? I'm not trying to promote a company, but it might be worth your time to call Relion and get a second opinion for your needs. It took me a month to decide which Lith would work best for my application, not to mention researching the best charger to match the starting battery.

Here's the link in case you're interested.

https://relionbattery.com/applications/bass-fishing

Good luck.

Rob
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 12:57 pm

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby Rob » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:20 pm

Ex walker wrote:Just got off the phone with battle born batteries. They are telling me at full speed , I would only get one hour of run time on my trolling motor using three 12v lithium batteries in parallel (36v) and about 5 to 7 hours run time at 20% power. :shock:
They want me to run three 100 ah batteries. That's a lot of money.
And they don't recommend a lithium battery for the starting motor.
You guys running battle born, what are you running three 50ah or 100ah ?

This is getting confusing, I am getting conflicting info.


So depends on what you’re running now, and if it’s sufficient to get you through the day? General rule of thumb is lithium will be approximate equivalent to double the aH that you’re currently running since lead is really only good to 50% aH and lithium is good for 80% of the aH. Example 50 aH lithium =100ah lead. Most guys who don’t really power fish ie >50% on the TM for long days will do fine with 50 aH. If you’re a heavy user or fish current etc then 100ah should be fine for most anyone. I can fish 2 fulls days on my 100 aH and probably a 3rd though I’ve never tried it (full day). I’m an overkill guy so I went 100ah as part of the reason to go lithium is I don’t have to worry about power over a single fishing day ever. As for what they told you about your 36 v TM, yes if you run it full (I’m guessing this part as I don’t know what motor you’re running) then you’re likely pulling 50-60 amps over 1 hour which would kill the battery (a 50ah which is what I’m guess you were referring to as you didn’t say). A 100ah would only last about 1.5+ hrs or so as well. But that’s not real life as who does that fishing? Your lead wouldn’t do any better likely and when you kill lead you lose capacity as well long term.

As for cranking battery Battleborns won’t allow enough amperage to start some motors. There are certainly some out there using it, but you’d have to experiment with it or know how many amps your motor pulls to start. ReLion, lithium pros both make batteries which will allow more amperage to crank a motor, so there different versions of BMS which will allow different things. You have to look at the battery specs and then have an idea of how many amps the motor pulls.

Weight is only one advantage, as you will notice the holeshot. But not having to worry about power is an awesome feeling. Cost is the biggest downside.

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scottsweet
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Location: Campbell, CA

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby scottsweet » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:13 am

Ex walker wrote:Hey Scott, what ah batteries you running.
100ah or 125ah for starting ?
50ah or 100ah for trolling motor ?
If you are running the 50ah, do you wish you would have got the 100ah for trolling motor?


I personally do not run Ionic. I am sponsored by Odyssey and happy to get you a pro staff discount coupon if you like.

I have several folks in my club who do and I have spoken to Lithium Hub (Ionic) personally. All of them are running the 50A trolling motor battery (x3) and the 100AH cranking. They like them very much. The key advantage is the Bluetooth application...no more guessing on the state of charge on the batteries. They often have to recharge every night though depending on the the trolling motor usage during the day. None of them are "heavy tournament anglers" though. Several have larger electronics loads installed on their boats (2-4 graphs, some large like the Solix).

Lithium batteries hold their charge differently than AGM or lead acid. AGM/lead acid slowly lose their surface voltage over the course of the day. You can get a good read on the remaining capacity by their current voltage. For lithium, the surface voltage remains pretty constant until they are about 85% depleted and then they drop their voltage very fast. Having the Bluetooth application removes the guessing, and potentially anxiety if you are anal retentive (LOL), because you can always check.

Most of the chargers will work well with their batteries. Though their charger is quite small/light, affordable and depending on what you want to spend, it too can eliminate some weight.

I personally run the Stealth 1 Charger, which charges the trolling motor batteries whenever the big motor is running. Depending on where you fish and how often you run, this helps in keeping your trolling motor batteries charged better.
Scott Sweet

www.teamccmarine.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.humminbird.com
www.minnkotamotors.com
www.lews.com
www.phenixrods.com
www.odysseybattery.com
www.simmsfishing.com
www.peregrine250.com

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scottsweet
Posts: 989
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Campbell, CA

Re: Lithium batteries / what do I need to know

Postby scottsweet » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:25 am

Kolt45 wrote:
Ex walker wrote:Just got off the phone with battle born batteries. They are telling me at full speed , I would only get one hour of run time on my trolling motor using three 12v lithium batteries in parallel (36v) and about 5 to 7 hours run time at 20% power. :shock:
They want me to run three 100 ah batteries. That's a lot of money.
And they don't recommend a lithium battery for the starting motor.

This is getting confusing, I am getting conflicting info.


Relion Liths are 100% compatible with Mercury outboards. Not sure why they're telling you not to run a lith for the starting motor, unless you already told them what motor you're running and they have all the data they need to make that recommendation. Or, are they just going for the $$$ ?? I'm not trying to promote a company, but it might be worth your time to call Relion and get a second opinion for your needs. It took me a month to decide which Lith would work best for my application, not to mention researching the best charger to match the starting battery.

Here's the link in case you're interested.

https://relionbattery.com/applications/bass-fishing

Good luck.


Lithium is different than AGM/lead cell for starter. In general, lithium is designed for longer medium draw current requirements like our trolling motors. Our big motors require a very high, short burst of current and most lithium batteries cannot do that without some additional electronics and/or a different type of lithium cells inside of the battery.

Battleborn probably doesn't sell a "starter" version of their lithium battery so they are not recommending it. Other lithium battery providers do offer the "starter" battery configuration like Ionic or Lithium Pro.

Hope this helps clarify the confusion... :).
Scott Sweet

www.teamccmarine.com
www.rangerboats.com
www.humminbird.com
www.minnkotamotors.com
www.lews.com
www.phenixrods.com
www.odysseybattery.com
www.simmsfishing.com
www.peregrine250.com


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