Delta in Collapse

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WB Staff
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Delta in Collapse

Post by WB Staff »

Estuary in Collapse: Zero Delta Smelt and Sacramento Splittail Reported In November CDFW Survey
DeltaSmeltLifeStages_JW-1.jpg
Image courtesy of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife


For the third month in a row, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) this November found zero Delta smelt and Sacramento splittail during the 2020 Fall Midwater Trawl Survey of pelagic (open water) fish species on the Delta, although they did report an index of 22 longfin smelt rather than the zero longfin smelt they reported the two previous months.

We will see the final results for the pelagic (open water) species surveyed at the end of December or in early January after the October through December totals of Delta smelt, longfin smelt, striped bass, threadfin shad, American shad and Sacramento splittail caught in the annual trawl are tallied by the CDFW.

Once the most abundant native fish in the entire Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, no Delta Smelt were reported in the Fall MIdwater Trawl in either 2018 and 2019, due to many years of massive water exports from the Delta through the State Water Project and Central Valley Water Project, combined with toxics, invasive species and declining water quality.

Found only in the Delta...

Read it all: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1 ... DFW-Survey
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TDOSoldier
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by TDOSoldier »

Sadly, there are anti-conservatives adds all over this website, which makes it suspicious for creditability in my humble opinion...! Perhaps we should ask the Facebook "fact checkers." Good grief!

Conservation is a good thing; environmentalism (controlling all our surroundings, from those who want to control what we can or cannot do to an extreme) is not good!
Jesus is Lord of all! Follow Him and He will make you fishers of men as the Scirptures says.... Timothy D. Oliver ><>, Director, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS MINISTRIES
monte300
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by monte300 »

Any numbers on largemouth population as compared to prior years?
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by P.bass »

TDOSoldier wrote:Sadly, there are anti-conservatives adds all over this website, which makes it suspicious for creditability in my humble opinion...! Perhaps we should ask the Facebook "fact checkers." Good grief!

Conservation is a good thing; environmentalism (controlling all our surroundings, from those who want to control what we can or cannot do to an extreme) is not good!
You're intentionally obscuring the definitions of "conservation" and "preservation"....which both fall under the umbrella of environmental protection. We're talking about a collapsing ecosystem due to "massive water exports from the Delta through the State Water Project and Central Valley Water Project, combined with toxics, invasive species and declining water quality"......not "anti-conservatives" sidebar ads. If you want to talk about the moneyed interests behind the water exports and toxins, that's a constructive dialogue, but "environmentalism" isn't killing the smelt.
Shooter
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by Shooter »

The dam sea lions probably ate them all...
genuinelime
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by genuinelime »

I was curious about the largemouth data too so went and downloaded the actual data file from the Fish and Wildlife Service website to see what I could find. It's a massive data set and would require a bunch of analysis to really do it justice, however I do see that the sampling data for largemouth is so sparse that it probably isn't worth investing much time on that specifically.

Just speculating, but this is probably less an indication of poor bass population, and likely more driven by how the samples are being collected...open water trawling might be an effective way to sample smelt (the focus of the program) or other open-water species but won't capture many largemouth because they don't spend much of their time mid-column in the middle of the river. For similar reasons, there are not a lot of panfish in the sample data but tons of threadfin and american shad.
MT
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by MT »

I've seen the research boats several times over the years and they don't drag their nets where you would expect a largemouth to be. It's probably a good thing they don't. For all we know they'd say there's too many bass and they have to go.
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TDOSoldier
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by TDOSoldier »

I thought they use shocking probes to count bass etc...? What you all say? ><>
Jesus is Lord of all! Follow Him and He will make you fishers of men as the Scirptures says.... Timothy D. Oliver ><>, Director, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS MINISTRIES
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by gabuelhaj »

You have a better chance of moving the Delta to Texas than stopping its' destruction.

Just a man-made travesty....

Good luck!
Glenn Abuelhaj
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by blkdog812 »

we all know their survey methods of netting in the middle of the river is flawed which is providing false data, but they dont care. but this false data in turn allows them to use it to create a crisis and plays to the enviormental wackos and the water shipment theft progams down south,
Never argue with an idiot; He'll beat you to death with stupidity.
I AM NOT SAYING THERE SHOULD BE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR STUPIDITY,
BUT, WHY DON'T WE JUST TAKE THE SAFETY LABELS OFF OF EVERYTHING
AND LET THE PROBLEM SOLVE ITSELF?"
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by gixxer464 »

blkdog812 wrote:we all know their survey methods of netting in the middle of the river is flawed which is providing false data, but they dont care. but this false data in turn allows them to use it to create a crisis and plays to the enviormental wackos and the water shipment theft progams down south,
Agreed. Their data shows them exactly what they want to see.
ILW
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by ILW »

The long ad hoizontal on the top and the big one on the side are Google ads and when it is a Google ad it means every person sees a different ad that Google chooses dependent on the information that they have on that persons views.
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JoeLanghans
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by JoeLanghans »

Why post this crap? This is the bass fishing forum, how does this contribute to any time of positive bass fishing topics. Dailykos.com? Wtf is that? Tired of all the negative bs, can’t escape it, even on westernbass...
Wrknap
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by Wrknap »

Amen
WRB
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by WRB »

There isn’t any doubt that the Delta ecosystem is changing and the weakest links are first to be impacted. Smelt are not a major prey source for LMB that rely/more on demasel prey in lieu of pelagic species. If the smelt are gone they should be replaced with Threadfin Shad and Silversides that more durable pelagic prey species to fill the niche.
Tom
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by monte300 »

WRB wrote:There isn’t any doubt that the Delta ecosystem is changing and the weakest links are first to be impacted. Smelt are not a major prey source for LMB that rely/more on demasel prey in lieu of pelagic species. If the smelt are gone they should be replaced with Threadfin Shad and Silversides that more durable pelagic prey species to fill the niche.
Tom
Not to mention Delta bass eat plenty of crawdads
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hydro
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by hydro »

WRB wrote:There isn’t any doubt that the Delta ecosystem is changing and the weakest links are first to be impacted. Smelt are not a major prey source for LMB that rely/more on demasel prey in lieu of pelagic species. If the smelt are gone they should be replaced with Threadfin Shad and Silversides that more durable pelagic prey species to fill the niche.
Tom
There has been threadfin shad in the delta for decades . Not sure that the threadfin shad can handle brackish water as good as the smelt though so maybe shad will be next on the political pescatorial hit list ?
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by WRB »

Increasing salinity levels is a problem. Hickory Shad can live in both salt and fresh water and may be another choice.
Tom
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by mark poulson »

P.bass wrote:
TDOSoldier wrote:Sadly, there are anti-conservatives adds all over this website, which makes it suspicious for creditability in my humble opinion...! Perhaps we should ask the Facebook "fact checkers." Good grief!

Conservation is a good thing; environmentalism (controlling all our surroundings, from those who want to control what we can or cannot do to an extreme) is not good!
You're intentionally obscuring the definitions of "conservation" and "preservation"....which both fall under the umbrella of environmental protection. We're talking about a collapsing ecosystem due to "massive water exports from the Delta through the State Water Project and Central Valley Water Project, combined with toxics, invasive species and declining water quality"......not "anti-conservatives" sidebar ads. If you want to talk about the moneyed interests behind the water exports and toxins, that's a constructive dialogue, but "environmentalism" isn't killing the smelt.
I agree with you P.bass. It is the water exports that are killing the Delta. The decline in salmon directly parallels the increases in pumping. It a fact, no some kind of hair brained conspiracy.
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mark poulson
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by mark poulson »

WRB wrote:Increasing salinity levels is a problem. Hickory Shad can live in both salt and fresh water and may be another choice.
Tom
Tom, decreasing water pumping will increase fresh water flow through the Delta, and decrease salinity.
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WRB
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by WRB »

In what lifetime will the supply increase and demand decrease? The population in California has tripled in our lifetime.
Keeping fresh water pressure high also means keeping the aquifer high, it’s been drawn down over 100’ from pumping 100 years. Winter rain/snow runoff only last about 4 months, 8 months it’s minimal. We all bitch about higher populations with lower annual rain fall, it isn’t going to change.
Tom
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hydro
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by hydro »

I read once the natural water supply in the LA basin was only enough to support a population of 200 K people .
How many are living there now and where did the required water come from ?
California politicians past and present claim to be such big proponents of the environment when the cameras are rolling while in actuality are directly responsible for destroying our states ecosystems for political power and $
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by WRB »

hydro wrote:I read once the natural water supply in the LA basin was only enough to support a population of 200 K people .
How many are living there now and where did the required water come from ?
California politicians past and present claim to be such big proponents of the environment when the cameras are rolling while in actuality are directly responsible for destroying our states ecosystems for political power and $
SoCal water came 1st by building dams locally to control flooding and store water plus the basin had a decent aquifer.
A good book is China Town for history of politics.
Mulholland conceived the Metropolitan Water District MWD and built the aqueduct to deliver from the eastern Sierra Owens Valley. The headwater being Lake Crowley collecting Owens river water down to Owens lake and transporting via a aqueduct to San Fernando Valley then distributing the water to a series of reservoirs early 1900’s.
The 2nd water supply was the All American canal system using Colorado river water with headwater being lake Mead and collecting the water at Imperial reservoir sending the water via open cement canal to Riverside and distributing it.
3rd and largest was the Feather River project staring at lake Oroville and sending the water south via a cement canal similar to All American camel.
That how millions of folks and farmers get the water.
Tom
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by mark poulson »

Millions of people get 20% of the water, and agriculture gets 80%. Since agriculture is only 2% of the state's GDP, cutting back on water for agriculture will only do minor damage to the state's economy, while giving back enough water to save the Delta.
We should start by not allowing planting high water use crops that need 24/7 irrigation, like nuts for export.
Smart use of water is our future. If we keep doing things the same way, but expecting different results, we're crazy.
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by Jboutfishn »

Desalination plants can supply water to many cities, but as was stated previously, agriculture is the big user. I believe modern hi tech irrigation could go a long ways in solving the problem. If some of our legislators wanted to address the problem instead of worrying about reelection we could make good progress. Good luck on that one.
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by mark poulson »

Jboutfishn wrote:Desalination plants can supply water to many cities, but as was stated previously, agriculture is the big user. I believe modern hi tech irrigation could go a long ways in solving the problem. If some of our legislators wanted to address the problem instead of worrying about reelection we could make good progress. Good luck on that one.
I agree, but Agribusiness donates big money, and fishermen don't. All politicians need money to get elected and
reelected, so it's still money that talks, and gets listened to. I think private finance of public office campaigns is killing democracy.
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hydro
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by hydro »

Jboutfishn wrote:Desalination plants can supply water to many cities, but as was stated previously, agriculture is the big user. I believe modern hi tech irrigation could go a long ways in solving the problem. If some of our legislators wanted to address the problem instead of worrying about reelection we could make good progress. Good luck on that one.


Bingo we have a winner! The Neo water grabbers should be forced to build desalinization plants for their water needs instead of duping state tax payers into subsidizing the delivery of the water they steal from the Delta for far below the cost of what takes to transport the water to them .
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by WB Staff »

Hi Joel,
This was posted as information being written on the Delta, a popular fishing locationfor the readers of WB site.

It is info we were sent. It doesn't mean we agree or disagree with the author or the views of the author or the site it is on.

It is information for our site visitors to read, if they choose and to discuss (respectfully), if they choose.

We hope that information we post is either entertaining or instructional or interesting or even for general awareness of information that is out there on our fisheries.
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by MGJR »

Do we have a pool started on whether the State will use this "crisis" to push the latest and most vogue version of Delta Pumping/Exports? All sarcasm aside - smelt are the canary in the coal mine. The ongoing trend of minimal to zero pelagic species in regularly and long-term studies is a problem. Something needs to be done - but its California so lets see who pays the biggest bribe over the next 30 years, and maybe something will happen. The good news for us bass guys - bass are really freaking resilient and can endure a lot compared to other species of fish.
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by mark poulson »

MGJR wrote:Do we have a pool started on whether the State will use this "crisis" to push the latest and most vogue version of Delta Pumping/Exports? All sarcasm aside - smelt are the canary in the coal mine. The ongoing trend of minimal to zero pelagic species in regularly and long-term studies is a problem. Something needs to be done - but its California so lets see who pays the biggest bribe over the next 30 years, and maybe something will happen. The good news for us bass guys - bass are really freaking resilient and can endure a lot compared to other species of fish.
You're right.
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by jiggin4bass »

Not to change the subject you always put down the almond farmers down for using water for there crops
Do you even know which crops take the most water in ca.
And what the number one cash crop is in ca. Let see how many get it right
And yes big farming will always get there way because who ever has the most money wins.
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mark poulson
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by mark poulson »

jiggin4bass wrote:Not to change the subject you always put down the almond farmers down for using water for there crops
Do you even know which crops take the most water in ca.
And what the number one cash crop is in ca. Let see how many get it right
And yes big farming will always get there way because who ever has the most money wins.
I'll guess alfalfa.
And I criticize the State Govt. for allowing farmers to plant water-intensive crops for export.
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Re: Delta in Collapse

Post by WRB »

Marijuana is the largest cash crop, almonds are 5.3 billion $$$$h$$$ annually producing 100% of domestic commercial almonds and 80% worlds consumption. Water needed would be rice.
Tom
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