Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs...)

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cereus
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Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs...)

Postby cereus » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:11 pm

Long time lurker, first time poster — take me for a trip down memory lane...

I recently read Kovach's 'Secrets of the Western Pros' and it's got me wanting to learn more from you sportsmen that were bass fishing in CA during the 70's, 80's, and early 90's!

I'm eager to read anything you have to share, but specifically I'm wondering about:

Who's darter jigs were you using? Weight, hook size?

Who's worm did you prefer most for splitshotting? Why?

What did you think of those spade head/standup jigs Haddock's used to make? And the twin spins?

What hook did you use for doodling?

And finally, can anyone share more about this post (photo expired) made by Cooch on 12/1/08
(curious about the 'smallie jig' and 'smally darter'):

Clockwise from left: 1/4 oz. R & B Dee Thomas Smallie jig with upgraded square bend hook, 1/8 oz. R & B Smally darter with original hook and wire weed gaurd, 1/8 oz. R & B Football head, 1/4 oz, Black DUH Japan Special, Custom 3/8 oz R & B Dart with Square bend hook.

https://www.westernbass.com/forum/best-small-jig-use-with-spinning-tackle-t45622.html#p306438

Thanks all!

WRB
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby WRB » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:09 am

Darts 1/8 oz w 1/0 hook 4 1/2” Flutter Craft smoke/s&p blue flake. Today Roboworm 4 1/2 hologram shad.
Split shot size 4 round Roboworm re barb size 1 Gamakatsu 4 1/2 to 6” straight or curl finesse worms. Today Slip shot rig; 1/8 -3/16 oz mojo style cylinder weight, 6mm glass faced bead pegged with Peg-it or Carolina stopper, size 1 or 1/0 Owner 5133, same worms as split shot.
I make my stand up viper head jig 7/16 oz w/ 5/0 Gamakatsu 114 or 604, since 1971. Back in the day vinyl skirts purple or purple/brown or Buck tail with #11 pork frog or L3 lizard.
Twin spins, 3/8-5/8 oz football jig spreaders* / size 1 or 2 Colorado blades, purple, blue or charteuse-white vinyl skirts, L3 black, blue or white pork trailer.
Doodling / Shaking, 3/16 oz brass painted bullet weight, 8mm glass faceted bead, size 2/0 or 3/0, skin hooked Owner 5100 hook, 4 1/2” - 6” straight or spade tail, Smitty’s brown w/ orange belly worm. Same today with Iovino liver or Roboworm o blood-red flake.
Line for finesse presentation 5# Maxima Ultra Green Copolymer mono.
Twin spins 15 # Trilene Big Game back in the day, today FC or Sunline 13# Armillo.
Tom
* PM email and will send sketch to make spreaders, how to fish jigs/twin spins “Horizontal Jigging” article. Suggest reading Don Iovino book Finesse Fishing and Sonar Connection and. articles on Dick Trask.

cereus
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby cereus » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:15 am

Thank you WRB; what a knowledge resource! (I was hoping you'd catch this thread.)

Did you do any grub fishing?

PM sent.

birdman920
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby birdman920 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:31 am

Doodling “ with brass n’ glass ! it’s still a great technique! works great for spotted bass ‘ in stained or dirty water !...

WRB
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby WRB » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:47 pm

Did send the articles referenced but overlooked the grub question.
The 80’s style paddle tail hand poured grub is still available from Don Iovino in 3” and 4”.
The paddle tail grub became popular during the green weenie era by California Customs and Stroker as I recall.
Grubs cover a wide classification today including single and double tail, ribbon tails etc.
Gary Yamamoto still makes a spider grub called Hula Grub. Back in the day we used Bobby Garland twin tails with spider skirts that you could mix or match colors.
The 3” paddle tail green weenie grub was usually a split shot presentation or 1/8 pea head jig (Ned rig) still works today.
Tom

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Kelly Ripa
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby Kelly Ripa » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:09 pm

If I'm not mistaken Don Iovino just won a tournament not but weeks ago here at Casitas. Doodling...He had big fish too! :wink: Rip
Remember ...What the Dormouse said...Feed your head!

pd
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby pd » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:38 pm

Grubs? I'm glad you asked. R&R Strokers 4" green weenie or amber/blue (bonus if you have the red flake option) and recommend upside down rigging technique (so it won't spin, trust me - ask Ripa) w gamakatsu bronze offset worm hook (2 I think?). Pinch a Water gremlin bite-on split shot about 15-18" up and and just run 6# anything line. Toss out in chismahoo (= lake casitas) on the right side heading in about 1/3 way back. Dropping the mic...

cereus
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby cereus » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:38 am

pd wrote:Grubs? I'm glad you asked. R&R Strokers 4" green weenie or amber/blue (bonus if you have the red flake option) and recommend upside down rigging technique (so it won't spin, trust me - ask Ripa) w gamakatsu bronze offset worm hook (2 I think?). Pinch a Water gremlin bite-on split shot about 15-18" up and and just run 6# anything line. Toss out in chismahoo (= lake casitas) on the right side heading in about 1/3 way back. Dropping the mic...


Was that Stroker paddle tail a hand-pour? flat bottom?

When would you choose something like a reaper for splitshotting vs the paddle tail?

Thanks everyone! :D

WRB
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby WRB » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:46 am

cereus wrote:
pd wrote:Grubs? I'm glad you asked. R&R Strokers 4" green weenie or amber/blue (bonus if you have the red flake option) and recommend upside down rigging technique (so it won't spin, trust me - ask Ripa) w gamakatsu bronze offset worm hook (2 I think?). Pinch a Water gremlin bite-on split shot about 15-18" up and and just run 6# anything line. Toss out in chismahoo (= lake casitas) on the right side heading in about 1/3 way back. Dropping the mic...


Was that Stroker paddle tail a hand-pour? flat bottom?

When would you choose something like a reaper for split shot vs the paddle tail?

Thanks everyone! :D

Stroker, Western plastic, California Customs, Smitty’s we’re hand pours with flat bottoms. Rigging Flat bottom up was common with reaper because they glide better.
Flutter Craft curl tails and screamer ribbon tails are injection molded. Both grubs and finesse worms can be split shot rigged. Brass n Glass is a term and doodling a technique created by Don Iovino in the 80’s.
Tom

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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby mark poulson » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:31 pm

WRB wrote:
cereus wrote:
pd wrote:Grubs? I'm glad you asked. R&R Strokers 4" green weenie or amber/blue (bonus if you have the red flake option) and recommend upside down rigging technique (so it won't spin, trust me - ask Ripa) w gamakatsu bronze offset worm hook (2 I think?). Pinch a Water gremlin bite-on split shot about 15-18" up and and just run 6# anything line. Toss out in chismahoo (= lake casitas) on the right side heading in about 1/3 way back. Dropping the mic...


Was that Stroker paddle tail a hand-pour? flat bottom?

When would you choose something like a reaper for split shot vs the paddle tail?

Thanks everyone! :D

Stroker, Western plastic, California Customs, Smitty’s we’re hand pours with flat bottoms. Rigging Flat bottom up was common with reaper because they glide better.
Flutter Craft curl tails and screamer ribbon tails are injection molded. Both grubs and finesse worms can be split shot rigged. Brass n Glass is a term and doodling a technique created by Don Iovino in the 80’s.
Tom

Tom, who brought the Tora Tube to bass fishing?
Attitude plus effort equal success
CLEAN AND DRY

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Kelly Ripa
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby Kelly Ripa » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:19 pm

It's a hydrodynamic thing with the worm. If the flat is down the bait spins as the weight is on top.If you have the flat up and the hook tip just skin hooked in the flat than the half of the circle is down which is heaviest and rocks back and forth as it is pulled along. I never bought into split shot as I don't crimp things onto line ever. From the beginning I used a t-worm weight which I pegged with a tooth pick. Later I used the same sinker and an Iovino glass bead. I pulled the bead to where I wanted it and pegged it. The R&R Stroker was a hand pour from Bakersfield that I was sponsored by. The grubs were 2 or 3 inch paddle tail but for their worms it was either Butler,Straight or Paddle for tails.They used popcorn salt in their worms and oxblood, green weenie.green weenie blue flake and green weenie red flake were my go to colors. I still have a bunch of them. I used to use #6 co-polymer line a number 2 Tru-turn bronze hook as it will always turn up into the lip of the fish and it was really light like the rebarb I use now. As a machinist I like things that have a mechanical advantage so that hook/a Stanley wedge spinnerbait blade and the heddon treble hook( Now a tornado hook?) that was twisted are still in my stable. I won't fish a spinnerbait that doesn't have a wedge blade on it as the tapered blade ( Thinner at hole and thicker at the end) starts up the minute it hits the water and I catch a lot more fish because of that instant start up. The old heddon hook was my secret weapon on rattle traps and spooks as the bend on all three of the hooks in the same direction causes torque accelerated penetration. If they touch it ...It screws two hooks right into the fish and they can't throw it. I was fishing at Castaic with a former partner prefishing when we got into a summertime reaper bite They were all 9-12 inch fish. When I told my partner he should retie after all the fish he'd caught he did. His next cast was his personal best and a more ugly fish you've never seen. It was half spawned had a broken jaw and I believe it had some sort of tumor ( lump ) on it. Main claim to fame at Castaic for reapers in the early 80's were the guys who splitshot them in 70 feet in the dead of winter. It's like reeling up a towel :lol: . They don't fight much and you have got to needle them toot sweet. I really liked my butler green weenie's on a splitshot and now and again I pull them out when the bite is just awful and catch'm like the old days. The reaper and the small Stroker grub move like a sculpin hence the winter bite for me. I brake out some Uptons customs starting in November.

Rip
Remember ...What the Dormouse said...Feed your head!

WRB
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby WRB » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:53 pm

Mark, Dan Wurm made a video on giant tubes in the early 90’s and is your best bet regarding the history of who started this technique.
I recall Mold Masters made a special giant tube jig with 7/0 hook. Garland made the Tora tube and GSTrout or Western plastics made a 10” rainbow trout tube. I sold most of my tackle last year and may a some odds and ends like a few tubes.
Tom

pd
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby pd » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:59 pm

See? I told y'all Ripa would have somethin' to say.

Anyways, I had some nice results back in the day taking a reaper and threading it onto a tiny (1/8 or 1/4?) darter head, again spinning gear w 6 lb., and just tossing it out onto cobble rock sloping points and dragging it. These days where I'm fishing I'd take the first pull and wind up breaking off 7/10 times. Times change, but if you're at a castaic or somewhere without brush, that might work on a tough bite especially if you're looking for keepers, let's say in a tourney.

I've still got a decent stash of the old Bako R&R Strokers, mostly keeping for nostalgia or when I want to set my son up for a split shot hook up. I ran out of the old Tru-turn hooks decades ago though. I still use the water gremlin crimp on split shots too. Never had a break off at the splitshot. Ever. But my hands are soft...

cereus
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby cereus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:44 am

pd wrote:Anyways, I had some nice results back in the day taking a reaper and threading it onto a tiny (1/8 or 1/4?) darter head...


Do you remember who's darter head it was?

WRB
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby WRB » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:08 am

Dick Trask popularized darts along with split shot and FlutterCraft worm for tournament bass fishing. The “neon” coloration for hand poured worms like cinnamon blue neon goes to John Zankoski (Zank) who also won tournaments in 80’-90’ using darts and split shot. Zank doesn't get credit he desires for the SoCal finesse bass fishing we enjoy today.
Tom

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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby mike at robo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:40 pm

Hahaha !!!! I’m going waaaaasy back !!! Rick and Arnie Butler Worms !!! 1973-74. Also early 80s Fred Lootin , Hooker Worms .

cereus
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby cereus » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:48 pm

mike at robo wrote:Hahaha !!!! I’m going waaaaasy back !!! Rick and Arnie Butler Worms !!! 1973-74. Also early 80s Fred Lootin , Hooker Worms .


Tell us more about them! Obviously pre-Internet but I searched them anyway. Lol

Dave Wilson
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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby Dave Wilson » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:57 pm

No finesse technique, but a worm king swim bait body with eyes glued on and a lead head did major damages once upon a time...

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Re: Old Timers Get In Here; Give Me A History Lesson (Darter Jig, Smitty's, Flutter Craft, Haddock's, Doodling, R&B Jigs

Postby Pete G » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:30 pm

Stroker worms are still around. Ray Huff 6616194106


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