the facts are falling on deaf eyes

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clayton meyer
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the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by clayton meyer »

am I seeing this correctly

Every complaint on every thread is about the lack of payback or the contingency requirements, the time of year, too high of an entry fee, I'm not a good fisherman during the week...

I can grab a friend and bet $100 for heaviest weight for the day and get 100% payback... that is the kind of comparisons that are being made.

I fished FLW for 4 years and never cried about not being eligible for the extra cash. I won and didn't cry about not getting the extra cash. I cancelled my contract with Nitro and bought a Ranger.

If the contingency requirements were met this last tournament an additional two boats, two trailers and one engine would have been given away along with 2nd place pro getting 5k.

I would like to see a western circuit step up and do this.

Do any of you realize FLW has paid full field paybacks in the past without having a full draw. They have given us more than any other circuit. How do we repay them? Complaining!

Everstart started with about a 130 average in 2003 and built from there.

Add the first tournament in each division this year and they will have about 280 Pros at last count. 155 plus the approx 130 for the NG.

If any anglers have legitimate suggestions send them to FLW, don't cry about it here. Develope a plan, take down notes and add your own experiences to send in.

Customer satisfaction, scheduling, paybacks and attendence are high priority with FLW and they want to hear from you. Especially those five of you that were dissatisfied at Shasta. Competitors always have a voice with FLW, more so than bench warmers.

I had to edit this in:

Won Bass 2006: 6 circuit tournaments north and south
high draw 133 anglers
low draw 66 anglers
average 87.66
total pro entries 526
only one tournament over 100
Last edited by clayton meyer on Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Hiser
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by Mark Hiser »

Who you talkin to?

Mark Hiser
philstrader
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by philstrader »

I have been reading through the threads tonight, I think Clayton sums it up bout right. I have been fishing Everstart and Stren since they came out west...Also fished BASS opens when they felt like offering them, WCB, Western Bass, Anglers Choice and time or two, and WON. Is FLW the save all, know all, and be all? NO....But it is hands down the best show in town! I don't agree with or understand some of the changes made for '07, but I have addressed them with FLW, and they have given me the reasoning for their decisions.....All it takes is a phone call, or a conversation with Chris Jones and your questions can be answered.

Since Everstart came West, I have yet to draw a co-angler, who complained about the payout, or talked with a pro who wasn't satisfied with the way the tournament was conducted. It seems the main complaint vented comes down to the contingency money. Not only has Ranger boats been a leader in boat design (solid fiberglass hull, upright level flotation, keyless ignition, LED lighting, road armor trailer coating, swing away tongue, fiberglass fenders, etc...) but they have led the way in incentives for their customers as well. It's simple you own a Ranger, you qualify for certain incentives. In FLW, they have put stipulations on the age of the boat. Bottom line is they pay out a huge amout of money back to Ranger owners. Other manufactures have since started incentive programs, all of which have tight stipulation surrounding them, some even prevent pro staff members from being eligible. I spoke with Gene Grey after the tournament on Saturday, he didn't seem upset about his winnings, he was excited and elated about his victory. As a Ranger owner, I wouldn't begrudge Skeeter boats writing Gene a $10,000 check and awarding him a brand new Skeeter/Yamaha combo for his efforts, but I don't think that is in their incentive package. Likewise, when I go up to fish Jeff Priesters Nortwest bass circuit, which is heavily sponsored by Skeeter/Triton, I really don't expect to cash in on the Triton Gold program....but I would still fish it because it is an excellent circuit, great payout, and very professional tournament director and staff.

Bottom line, FLW runs a great event, best payouts, and most opportunity for exposure. As far as incentives go, do the math...but don't complain just because no other manufacturer offers what Ranger does in contingency monies.

Rember it's just fishing, have fun dammit'

Phil strader
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Fishin' Dave
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by Fishin' Dave »

Ahhh... What do you expect??

Bass fisherman are never satisified.

If they were, there would be one circuit, they'd have one rod, and stop fishing after catching a big fish.

You say WON, I say FLW, you say Chevy, I say Ford, Tomato, Tomato, ..................................
Don't be lame. It's just fishing; you are not the new mesiah you know! Check your attitude at the door Mr. Spinners on da boat trailer.
Dewayne
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Re: Dang Strader

Post by Dewayne »

You were listening while lounging on the couch. :lol: :lol:

I was not at Shasta due to time off work, but I wished I was there. The Stren paybacks are great when you look at the complete package with the Championship.


Thadjusted each e program is
year. If you have feedback give them a call like many of us have.
Dewayne
Hollywood
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by Hollywood »

Strader, you could not have said it any better. If you support Ranger, they and FLW will support you in return. It is a business and every business is there to make money. Ranger wants to move boats that is why the year limit is placed.

I don't run a ranger anymore but if I was here in the states I would still fish the FLW and most likely will next year if they decide to stick around one more year dispite the lack of support!

Kevin
philstrader wrote:I have been reading through the threads tonight, I think Clayton sums it up bout right. I have been fishing Everstart and Stren since they came out west...Also fished BASS opens when they felt like offering them, WCB, Western Bass, Anglers Choice and time or two, and WON. Is FLW the save all, know all, and be all? NO....But it is hands down the best show in town! I don't agree with or understand some of the changes made for '07, but I have addressed them with FLW, and they have given me the reasoning for their decisions.....All it takes is a phone call, or a conversation with Chris Jones and your questions can be answered.

Since Everstart came West, I have yet to draw a co-angler, who complained about the payout, or talked with a pro who wasn't satisfied with the way the tournament was conducted. It seems the main complaint vented comes down to the contingency money. Not only has Ranger boats been a leader in boat design (solid fiberglass hull, upright level flotation, keyless ignition, LED lighting, road armor trailer coating, swing away tongue, fiberglass fenders, etc...) but they have led the way in incentives for their customers as well. It's simple you own a Ranger, you qualify for certain incentives. In FLW, they have put stipulations on the age of the boat. Bottom line is they pay out a huge amout of money back to Ranger owners. Other manufactures have since started incentive programs, all of which have tight stipulation surrounding them, some even prevent pro staff members from being eligible. I spoke with Gene Grey after the tournament on Saturday, he didn't seem upset about his winnings, he was excited and elated about his victory. As a Ranger owner, I wouldn't begrudge Skeeter boats writing Gene a $10,000 check and awarding him a brand new Skeeter/Yamaha combo for his efforts, but I don't think that is in their incentive package. Likewise, when I go up to fish Jeff Priesters Nortwest bass circuit, which is heavily sponsored by Skeeter/Triton, I really don't expect to cash in on the Triton Gold program....but I would still fish it because it is an excellent circuit, great payout, and very professional tournament director and staff.

Bottom line, FLW runs a great event, best payouts, and most opportunity for exposure. As far as incentives go, do the math...but don't complain just because no other manufacturer offers what Ranger does in contingency monies.

Rember it's just fishing, have fun dammit'

Phil strader
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Team FLW - Clayton and Ricky.

Post by Guest »

Clayton & Ricky S.-

First off you and Ricky Shabazz should be on payroll for these guys with all the defensive posts you guys are making. Kudos to sticking up for what you believe in!

First off - I think FLW is great. However, I think they can do some things different thats all. Following this post I will gladly put together an email with the same questions for FLW tomorrow.

I have a couple questions for you and Ricky? I really want to know what do you guys think

1. Do you think they ought to bring the Championship West every once in a while? Entries may be free but it costs several thousand dollars for travel etc. to fish the Championship back there. I think we should get the cheap ride every once in a while.

2. Does FLW really need to force feed guys at this level Ranger boats?

3. Do you think dropping the entry fee AND the paybacks for the Am's would get us more Ams?

The only reason I am even bringing this stuff up is because its the big show and should be what everyone in California is striving to fish!

Some disclaimers:
1. Every tournament trail including the one I am associated with could see some improvements.
2. FLW and Ranger boats are much smarter than I am. (at least collectively :) )
3. I appreciate very much that FLW even has western events. I think we need to stop biting this hand that feeds us. I am not biting the hand, just asking that they modify it a little.

I won't argue paybacks vs. other western trails - because its not all about the money and there are 50 ways you can break it down to swing the numbers one way or the other... just like in team trails.

Best of Luck to FLW.... I really think we should support it, like I said a few times now. Its the Major Leagues and our only chance to fish on TV and against many of the best anglers in the world.

PS - Ricky S.- you know I consider us friends so don't take this wrong. You are off on one thing ---- FLW Outdoors is not the only National Magazine, we send magazines out to every state in the US and even other countries..... in big numbers (not far from FLW's numbers). However, it is the only one with TV coverage! We've covered numerous guys already and I have some new ones coming this year.

Also - -
Cody Meyer got the young guns Karma (as Billheimer did last year)! Well done Cody!
JT-Madera
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by JT-Madera »

Clayton the facts are not falling on deaf eyes...

I support FLW and Ranger Boats 100%..They are hands down the best National Trail going..I believe that they are on the threshold of changing the bass fishing world forever....I have owned Ranger Boats for many years...My current boat is a 2004 520VX and I am the first and only owner.....so in a way I support your sponsorship... But nothing is perfect without going through changes to get there....We ( I ) am only making suggestions to improve the circuit...not tear it down....In just about every post I have made I included my support for FLW....I have paid entry fee's and purchased their boats, which should allow me to to make suggestions...

1. At the current time, FLW does not have a step up circuit to help the beginning anglers out west...We are in desperate need of one..I believe one of the reasons for a lack of Co-Anglers is because there is no way for FLW to keep and foster brand loyalty from the beginning angler to the Pro level... TBF is not working fast enough and needs to be reworked to nurture young anglers into this sport... I fished the old Federation tournaments and felt sorry for the new anglers being forced to fish behind guys who had been fishing for years and couldn't care less about the newbie in the back...( I never fished as a non-boater ) I did listen to them complain about how they were treated by ( some ) boaters... There has to be a better way to bring new anglers in....the proof is in the lack of amateurs..in all circuits...

2. I find the entry fee for Co-anglers is a little high for the beginning anglers..when you combine their out of town expenses...and loss of work costs.. Why jump from 325.00 to 800.00...these guys are not trying to make a living at this...

3. Pro's also need to have a vested interest in the Co-Angler.. The number one complaint I hear is how badly some Pro's treat their Am's....You may treat them great, but I can guarantee you 90% will have at least one bad experience with their draws each tournament... I listened to three different Co-Anglers who fished Shasta.. one had three bad draws (rude and uncooperative ) one had two bad pro's and the other guy had one bad draw... I believe that if FLW worked at giving the Pro's some interest in helping their co's this problem could be reduced..it will never be eliminated.. Perhaps if points could be added to the Pro's points if his Co-Angler caught a limit..or maybe one extra point for each fish weighted in by his Co-Angler...This needs to be addressed if you guys want to make a living at this sport, because it isn't going away because you guys deny it exists....

JT
Ricky-S
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Re: Team FLW - Clayton and Ricky.

Post by Ricky-S »

Hey Tom,

I would defend AC and WON if someone was attacking them also. I am for the entire sport and support every pro/am that I can fit into my schedule. Heck, I was the only Southern Cal angler that fished the Northern Division of AC.

I try to stay out of the politics, however, I have a hard time with people who complain and sit on the sidelines. If I have a problem, I was taught to go to the source. We all know that very few, if any, of us will get rich fishing tournaments. In fact, most of us ex-athletes, like ourselves, fish primarily for the competition. I get a rush just knowing that I have a chance to beat some of these guys.

As far as the championship goes, I would love to see one come out West, but I don’t think that it will ever happen. I like going back East and kicking some butt on new waters. Against guys who have no clue how versatile Western anglers are. I also understand that those Eastern anglers don’t have to travel nearly as much as we do. I consider the Delta and Clear Lake my home waters and you know were I live-nuff said.

Believe me, it is not about standing up for FLW, more so than standing up for the opportunity. What would we fish if there was no AC, WON or FLW? Plus, I work in education and I hate when people don’t provide a true comparison of the entire offerings and bigger picture.

PS-I plan to be on the FLW payroll, AC payroll, and Won payroll. I am out here trying to collect checks baby. I’ve got too much tackle not to have a tournament to fish.
ckraft
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by ckraft »

No question FLW they run the best pro am tournaments on the west coast not much competition since Mike Kennedy left won bass he had a pretty good following rest his soul.The problem is the sport like everything else is be comming a rich mans game they dont call him the wealthy rancher for his health, nothing against phill or his post but i think the numbers will continue to fall the price of ranger boats has gone through the roof 54,000 plus tax and license i just dont see the value in fishing the pro side of stren without running a new ranger boat and the same goes for the am side the payout is just not that great unless you fall in there guide lines. Gene Grey had a great tournament congradulations Gene i wonder if he will be in a ranger boat next year?
Ricky-S
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Come on JT

Post by Ricky-S »

The whole bad draw thing has gotten real old. Pros and Cos can have this debate until we are all blue in the face. I’ve got a couple of stories from both sides of the tracks and that didn’t stop me from looking at the bigger picture. There are just as many bad cos as there are bad pros. It is too bad that we can’t put them al together. The just about even things out.

The great Rick Clunn said to worry about the things that you can change and forget about the things that you can’t. If you want to choose who you fish with during a tournament, then fish a team tournament, that’s what they are there for.

A co-angler that complains about their pro is someone looking for an excuse as to why they did bad-Period. My co-angler the last day of the Stren kicked my butt. I caught more fish then him, but everyone he hooked just so happened to be a two pounder. He had the same opportunities as the four non-boaters that I fished with during the WON and Stren, it just so happened that he was the best at adapting to how I was fishing and he did his own thing and didn’t worry about me. Heck, I caught two limits before he caught a fish. By the end of the day, he stayed focus, did his thing and caught some good fish. He also made the cut and got a good check. It was also his first tournament.

Fishing is mental. If you let someone get into your head then you might as well pack things up and drive home. That was one of the first things that I learned fishing as a non-boater in a non-shared weight tournaments and as a pro in a boater on boater events. IT IS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE.
clayton meyer
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Re: Team FLW - Clayton and Ricky.

Post by clayton meyer »

tom,

I have previously suggested some of these items, and do not mind if you include my thoughts with yours to chris.

the west deserves a championship tournament. It is very expensive to travel and we have paid our dues. I think it is time to have one here and maybe we can start finding a city to welcome it.

Paybacks and structure of future tournaments to be announced well in advance. East/West fish off. I am having trouble finding the payback.

Circuits don't need to be changed every year if so paybacks should climb... not necessarily the entry fees. There is more sponsor money with FLW than any other circuit we have and they give us more. I do not see any need to drop paybacks or increase entry fees but this is not my decision and I do not have the information used to make these desicions. In Short... sponsor money should take up a greater role each year. It does create a controversy we don't need to have rising costs and lower paybacks. BASS failed with this approach.



Ranger Boats:

Sponsors supply boats to some anglers. I only hope they supply them to everyone in the future.

You only miss on the top spots, it doesn't matter where you are after the top three on the pro side until the Championship when the payback is huge, standing a really good chance of making your yearly boat payment in one week.

If you include the year issue I can't justify it entirely. But you still have a better payback than any other circuit and live feed for your sponsors to drool at. I am going to suggest a "hit counter" to chris for the time span of each tournament. This can be used to sell your potential sponsors on fishing.

As the circuit grows you are going to want a new boat every year or two. If you look at the photos for these tournaments it looks like a Rangerfest. How many people are really missing out on the money? That would take an angler by angler check and how they placed.

comment:
So they don't get a boat, the are now going to go and fish a team tournament? Hardball... maybe? But this world isn't easy and you don't get your tour card in golf without being the best... not just lucky one day, you have to be really good and you can't buy your way in. We can buy our way into this "sport". if those complaining were actually all that good, they wouldn't have any trouble understanding that many of us aren't entirely proffessional (myself included) in this sport. We haven't the talent to succeed, were we actually playing against the best. I do understand it is very much a financial issue with many anglers. It is with myself also. so I will end this part here.


Entry Fee:

FLW dropped the BFL out west in 2003 and Everstart had a 130 average it's first year. Each year following was an increase in anglers with full fields in 2006. 2007 split the FLW anglers and decreased field size. No, I do not think it is time to reduce entries. Flw will probably wait for next years results or even an account of this years attendence. FLW didn't lower their entree fees in the past and it was the same discussion.

I can go on if you like but I had to write this fast and get to my real job so I can make my entry fees for the year
Last edited by clayton meyer on Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
JT-Madera
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Re: Come on JT

Post by JT-Madera »

Sorry Ricky;

I was just trying to help you guys draw more Co-Anglers.....not put down the Pro's..and believe me I have drawn some of the worst clunker Co-Anglers out there...and some of the best... A number of years ago while fishing Clear Lake in a WON Bass Pro-am, my heart started giving me problems and my Am ( from ) So-Cal took over and put some great fish in the boat until my med's relieved the problem .... I came in 17th out of 190.....and without his help that might not of happened...I am on the Pro's side on this....without more Co-Anglers stepping up to the next level I am afraid some of my buddies will not be able to fish.. I feel this is something FLW needs to address....I was just giving suggestions...It shouldn't all be up to the West coast Pro's to find the Am's....

JT
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Re: Team FLW - Clayton and Ricky.

Post by Guest »

Hey Ricky --

Loved your Payroll comment.. I bet by the end of the year you will be on all of the payrolls and Harvey Mudds too!

I knew you'd defend all of them.. I've seen you do it.

FLW is a great thing - I am not slamming them... I will be fishing at least some of their events this year. Havasu may not happen due to funding it but, the rest I am fishing... I am not in it to qualify for the championship since its back east anyway, so missing Havasu doesn't bother me.


Clayton -

Thanks for your answers... I think our thoughts are pretty similar on the whole thing... Love the trail and the opportunity, but as with most things a few adjustments would be nice.
Bob Myskey
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Re: the facts are falling on deaf eyes

Post by Bob Myskey »

Hey Phil Strader, great job at Shasta. That was one of the best top ten fields I have seen. I agree with you Phil, although I don't get into all that many big events other than what comes to Clear Lake, these people need to quit whining and ""Just fish""if they don't like it, don't participate. Wait until FLW quits coming out West, then we can whine some more. ""Good Job at Shasta"" the cream definitely rose to the top in that top ten. See you when you come to Clear Lake, Good Luck at Havasu. Myskey
Rich hamilton
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Re: hey bob!

Post by Rich hamilton »

Great to see you post! I almost have enough saved to donate to you up on your golden pond (you bassturd)! hope u and the family are doing great. Richie Rich
If I don't meet you no more in this world Then I'll see you in the next one. Don't be late... Don't be late... Stevie Ray/Hendrix
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