fluor knot???

tim mc nicholas · Post by **tim mc nicholas** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:48 pm

What knot does everyone use and why?? Polamar?? SD? Uni? Thanks tim

MIKE TREMONT · Post by **MIKE TREMONT** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:50 pm

When I'm using the floru I only use the San Diego knot. The number of twists I use depends on the line strength.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:51 pm

Polamar knot. I think it is the strongest knot. That is just my opinion.

tim mc nicholas · Post by **tim mc nicholas** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:03 pm

How do you tie the SD knot?

bahlzar · Post by **bahlzar** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:08 pm

tim mc nicholas wrote:How do you tie the SD knot?

Move there!! youll be knotted up so bad you wont believe it!!!

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:20 pm

G-man, Do NOT use a Polamar with Florocarbon! trust me on this one. It is a great knot for braid and mono, but it will break on flo.

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:42 pm

So Mike, what knot do you recommend?

How about when tying a fluoro leader onto braid?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:09 pm

I use the Trilene knot for mono and Flo. Polamar for braid.

http://www.animatedknots.com/trilene/in ... dknots.com

Tying braid to flo.?

http://www.animatedknots.com/bloodknot/ ... dknots.com

Ken C. · Post by **Ken C.** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:41 pm

Thanks!

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:37 pm

I've used the Palomar on Fluorocarbon since the day I started using fluoro. I never wet it, and I never have the knot break on my Sugoi or Transition 16-20# lines. I use the good old Trilenne or half cinch or barrel or whatever ya call it on my cranks. Everything else, palomar. Course, you already knew that G-man! LOL

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:43 pm

You must have a whimpy hook set

Then again, I hear you lose a lot of fish

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:44 pm

Yep Mike, Palomar.

I've been using Sugoi since 3.5 hours after Cooch first mentioned it. The Knot works on 6 lb - 25 lb in my personal testing.

The only time the palomar has failed me is with some brands of braid.

So there you go Mr. Delta Mike Andrews

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:45 pm

You will see Grasshopper.

Florocarbon+Polamar=Heart BREAK

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:49 pm

Or Danielson:

talk trash + big prediction - not come through on game day = egg on face!

I feel good about it and Uncle Cooch endorses it, so it's as good as money in the bank broham! You've got two macho fishermen guys who can cook a mean meal and you not going to believe the know works??

Oh well.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:51 pm

What are you talking about??

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:00 pm

Nothing really, just fooling with you

You know since you say I have no job, HA!

You say grasshopper, I say Danielson.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:23 pm

There's more of me out there on a daily basis. I git far more bites in a day than most. And yeah, I don't set as hard as most, I'm okay when the fish wins ever now and then. So yeah, it's gonna appear I loose more fish, but it sure ain't because of my Palomar knot or equiptment. Simple law of averages. Besides, don't we all loose fish?

And that, doesn't take a "genius" ta figure out!

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:24 pm

Another Question........

When Dropshotting with Flouro....... What knot are most tying?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:36 pm

This off of swimbait nation:

"I fished with Aaron at the US Open last year, and he jumped all over me about using the Palomar for flourocarbon. I hadn't had an issue, but he said it was only a matter of time. I've used the uni for years in my saltwater applications, and used it for most of my freshwater rigging also. Just that my buddy who got me into bass fishing and taught me the dropshot was using the Palomar, so I used it. If Aaron says it isn't the ticket, I'm certainly not going to argue... I appreciate being able to learn from some else's experience, especially at that level."

I have had many big name touring pro's tell me the same thing. Then It dawned on me that Bobby D was using the palomar knot and having break off problems when I was using the same line with the Trilene knot and "almost" never break off on a hook set. As soon as he changed knots no more problems!

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:40 pm

Well, maybe it is an issue throwing those 3lb swimbaits. Me and Uncle Cooch be worm and jig fisherman so our "tiny" lures might not stress the knots.

Another issue for many is tag length. Guys will cut the excess line right against the knot. Any slipage (there's always some) and you loose the bait, big fish, and your mind!

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:42 pm

Mike -- Can you explain that in English please ??

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:48 pm

Well Dave, you know it all! I see you name at the top of the results all the time! If you think its BS, then keep using it. I was just tring to be helpful.

I wasnt even talking to you anyway! I was talking to G-man before you highjacked the thread.

Fishin' Dave · Post by **Fishin' Dave** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:52 pm

No need to get touchy Mike. We all appreciate your help. But what's wrong with me saying I like Coke when you say Pepsi is better?

As far as top names, top names do not always = the best and most knowledgable fisherman. Sometimes the scruffy guy in the alumnium knows more, he just can't afford or doesn't desire to go on tour. Don't judge a book by its cover.

As far as your data on the knot, it sounds good. The first time the palomar fails with floro for me I will apogize to you.

Again, I like you Milke, relax a little bud!

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:21 pm

All I use is Palomar..I haven't had one fail yet..That is not to say they couldn't, just they haven't for me..My personal opinion is use what ever knot works for you..Then you have no one to blame but yourself..

mac

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:13 am

of 2002, I was fishing at Lake Mead in a Bassmasters event, first time I'd ever been there. On the final day, I was in the back of Calville fishing a hump in the middle of the channel in 30 feet of water. At the time, I put down my jig to throw a dropshot. There was another boat fishing the other side of the hump about 100 yards away. I kept hearing him hollar "Oh $hi+" on hooksets. It was Aaron. We both were popping fish at a purty good pace, but he was breaking off fish ever now and then. As we got closer we began to chat, talk about the Delta and such, how our day was going, then we got tangle. Oddly, we discovered we wuz using the same worm. Aaron asked me what the heck kinda rope was I using and I told him 16# Sugoi. He laughed and said you can't dropshot with 16# test and a baitcaster, ya gotta be using 4# test and a spinning rod. I laughed right back at him and asked, "how many you broken off since we've sat here?" I used a palomar that day, I used 16# fluoro on a bait caster, I never broke off once. I was getting just as many bites as the Dropshot King, I finished 24th in that event, not sure where Aaron finished. Am I better than Aaron, hell no, but my 16# Sugoi was better than his line that day.

Fluoro is a different beast, there's no need for monster hook sets. Certainly, and I have experienced this too, when using cheap fluoros or lighter fluoro lines, 10# and below, that Palomar knot will cut through itself on a very hard snap hookset. I experienced this first hand when I first started to use Fluoros, but it was always with the lighter test lines and I decided I'd never use anything less than 16# fluoro again, cause I've not experienced the break offs like I did with the lighter lines. Braid has it's flaws too. Fer 3 years, I watched Rick Kraft break off no less than two fish every time we were out on the river due to his monster hooksets with braid. He finally switch to 25# Big Game like I was using. We had to re-tie and respool more, but the hookset breakage dropped way off fer him. I've had clients show up with braid on their pitching sticks, only to git on that rock wall bite, and see them break off on every other hookset because the rocks saw right through the stuff. I also see the bites drop way off when guys fish with me in clear water. Same bait, same presentation, I'm getting bites and the guy with braid is not.

There are a lotta reasons why we each like one line over the other. Hell, there was a time when I just despised Stren and would not recommend that line to anyone. We see this today with some guys and their initial experiences with the original Berkeley Vanish. We've had bad experiences with it, and it sticks in our minds. Yeah, I had break off problems in the past with fluoros, but I've found that I had to re-teach myself how to fish to be able to properly take advantage of this line. Ya don't need the power monger hooksets. You do need to adjust yer drag and line tension spools. It is a great idea to use a line conditioner like the one KVD puts out. Doing all of this, has indeed improved me as a fisherman, I am putting more fish in the boat, and I just am not seeing the break off results like you've experienced.

I don't doubt fer a minute that guys break off on fluoro, but there are certainly a few key changes ya can make in yer fishing practices that will rid you of that problem.

Jason Wood · Post by **Jason Wood** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:30 am

I switched from braid to fluoro after being one of those guys breaking off jigs on the rock walls on one trip with Cooch... Now all my stuff is 17lb and over fluoro (except for frog and swimbait rods) and all tied on with palomar knots... I haven't broken one off yet...

L.Hackney · Post by **L.Hackney** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:43 am

You guys are all wrong......

I use a Granny Knot ....

Just kidding, palamar kick's butt !!!!!!!

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:09 am

I guess we'll agree "KNOT" to agree

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:17 pm

I have been using 14 lb Sugoi with the palomar knot since you first reccommended it about 7 or 8 years ago. Almost every break off I have had has been when I got snagged. and then since I started paying close attention to how the knot lies in the eye of the hook, it has almost never been at the knot.
I have done several break tests using a scale and various knots. The 14 lb test Sugoi typically breaks between 16 and 17 lbs of pull and it does the same with the palomar knot in my tests. I havent run the tests on Seaguar but am planning to do them since it seems to be more readily available now
If you put your micrometers on these lines it is pretty amazing how little difference there is in 8 lb test and 14 lb test as far as diameter goes

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:25 pm

Kind of like stepping on cracks and having an open umbrella in the house, especially right after a black cat has crossed my path

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:44 pm

Since learning the light hookset with drop shotting I have really learned that the lip ripping sets are really bad for my hook up ratio and that with the lighter hook set if I miss them quite often the will take it again within a few seconds.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:46 pm

MrSkeeter · Post by **MrSkeeter** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:32 pm

Cooch wrote:I've used the Palomar on Fluorocarbon since the day I started using fluoro. I never wet it, and I never have the knot break on my Sugoi or Transition 16-20# lines. I use the good old Trilenne or half cinch or barrel or whatever ya call it on my cranks. Everything else, palomar. Course, you already knew that G-man! LOL

Cooch,

That's because you never use light line. I thew away several spools of 8# Vanish Transition because I thought it was bad line. Had been using the Palomar knot for years ... then came these fluorocarbon lines, the palomar knot cuts onto itself and will break on hookset. After several frustrating tries w/ Transition, I switched to the San Diego knot and have not had a breakage problem. Though, I must warn everyone, be VERY careful tying ANY knot w/ fluorocarbon line. If it curls up, cut it off and retie!!

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:48 pm

The SD knot almost looks similar to the Treline knot....

Luke is trying most of his jigs with a Uni-knot..... I still have not figured out how he does it- but he does it so well that I have him tie my knots for me now.

--It is preaty slick how the knot is tied with a 4" loop ..... then he just slides it down to the head. I seen it work on braid bringing up a 70# piece of metal angle iron.

StockOption · Post by **StockOption** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:53 pm

...is the improved clinch knot.

I made a rookie mistake today and inadvertantly tied a shakey head worm on my fluro rig with an improved clinch knot. I then got punished by having a GIANT snap me off shortly after a good hookset on Clear Lake today

:( Line snapped right at the knot too....damn, damn, damn.

Depressing....but I still took 7 today at the lake with my best 5 coming in at 13lbs....biggest fish LANDED was a 4-6.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:00 am

I've used the Palomar for years, and only had a few breaks at the knot. Generally, that's when I've been lazy, and fished too long without retieing. The last time it cost my partner and me a first place in a club tournament. I fish rocky lakes (

) so the knot can get beaten up.
I went to the Palomar knot because it was a doubled line at the knot. I think that spreads the strain, not only on the hookset, but when you cast. There's a lot of strain on the knot when you whip out a jig or crank 75' ( I don't know what a 100' cast feel like, unless its downwind in a gale).
I always wet my line (spit), tighten them slowly, and test my knots hard before I cast. If you pull hard enough on the main line while holding the hook bend or lure body, you can get a badly tied knot to break right there in the boat. It doesn't happen often, but it happens, and retieing then is a heck of a lot better than retieing after you break off a good fish.
I still use a Palomar knot on drop shot, flouro with a braid mainline. I started using the braid to get away from line twist originally, but I found out early it really helps me to feel the bottom when I'm fishing deeper.
I use an Albright knot to join the flouro leader to braid, and put a drop of glue on that knot. I've broken off snagged hooks at the Palomar, or straightened the hook, before the Albright knot breaks. Happened yesterday sight fishing with 50lb/17lb flouro leader.
Any knot will fail if you don't set your drag right, and if you swing on fish with 4-6lb as though you were setting a jig hook with 17lb.
I think most of the time, it's operator error, at least for me.
I know I was fishing a circle hook a lot yesterday, and missed some fish early before I calmed down enough to reel set them.

Cooch · Post by **Cooch** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:16 am

Mr. Skeeter..

Cooch, That's because you never use light line.

It's not a matter of me "never" using light lines, I do, and I won't use anything other than Sugoi Fluoro when I do use them. As I explained in my last post sir, light line breakage, no matter what the cause, is the exact reason why I prefer not to use light line. I have the utmost of confidence I can catch and land fish with the heavier fluoro lines, and not have to step down to git the bites I'm looking for. That's just my personal choice, other anglers will make the light lines work, and I think that's great fer them if that's what they believe in.

And I really do think that Berkeley's Vanish took a purty good tarnishing in most guys mind's becaues of this. Most guys do use lighter lines. Most guys first tried Berkely's Fluoro. A lot of break offs were due to the knot, I'm sure. When ya hear guys like KVD and Ike say they use Vanish all the time, obviously to me, there's some good in there somewhere. Certainly these two aren't just pumping sponsors because the have to. I don't believe fer a moment either of them uses another fluoro, then tout their sponor's line. I use 16# Transition on my Senko rods, I don't have break off problems. Yet I can see the Transition, better than any fluoro on the market, that's why I prefer it for this application over Sugoi. I don't have break off problems. Yet I sure do with 10 & 12#, so I don't use the lighter stuff.

You've actually confirmed, exactly what I stated in my last post.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:48 am

Cooch,
I had problems with breaking knots with Transition in 6lb on drop shot rigs even though I tied my Palomars slowly and wet.
I switched to BPS flouro, and have had no knot breakage problems since.
But I only use 6lb. when the water is super clear, and the skies are high and bright. Otherwise, I never use anything less than 8lb. and up, to 17lb. flouro for my jigs.
I hate drop shotting!!!!!

MrSkeeter · Post by **MrSkeeter** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:29 am

Cooch,

Yeah, I gave Vanish Transition a second, third chance because it is relatively soft line for fluorocarbon. I normally use 6 & 8# test on lakes w/ darthead and dropshot. You are correct that the heavier lines do not suffer from the knot issue AS MUCH. But ... there are other issues involved in one's choice of line weights as well.

Some considerations are how deep you are fishing. In most cases, shallow water as in most parts of the delta is unaffected by heavier line weights (larger diameter lines). But in deeper water, heavier lines don't fall right ...

However even in shallow water, there could be some issues. Once I tried 12# mono at Clear Lake while dropshotting docks. I noticed that even when I pitched right up against the piling, my line was coming back towards me like there was a current or something. It was the big diameter line. When I switched to 8# test, I don't notice that problem.

Also, if you are using spinning tackle, it's just impossible to throw anything more than 8# fluorocarbon line. It's just too wirey ...

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:40 pm

Does Floro line ever "break in" ?

Sheez- I had some new P-Line 8# on a light spinning today and the moment I opened the bail it sprang off the spool like it stole somethin' !

It did get better later in the day......... but 1/3ard of it was missing from the reel by then.

Also today saw how the line knicks and peels easily.... That was about 14" up from the hook.

MrSkeeter · Post by **MrSkeeter** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:55 pm

DeltaDan wrote:Does Floro line ever "break in" ?

Sheez- I had some new P-Line 8# on a light spinning today and the moment I opened the bail it sprang off the spool like it stole somethin' !

That's a good one, can I borrow it?

Anyway, yeah, the line will have some memory after a while ... also, it would help if you use Reel Magic or the KVD stuff.

DeltaDan wrote:Also today saw how the line knicks and peels easily.... That was about 14" up from the hook.

Hmm really? Easily? I've noted that fluoro is about as tough as they come in terms of abrasion resistance. But w/ all light line applications, do check for nicks and roughness OFTEN ... then retie!

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:16 am

DeltaDan wrote:Does Floro line ever "break in" ?

Sheez- I had some new P-Line 8# on a light spinning today and the moment I opened the bail it sprang off the spool like it stole somethin' !

It did get better later in the day......... but 1/3ard of it was missing from the reel by then.

If you stretch the line before you use it by tieing it off to something and letting out two casts worth, and then putting a 5 second constant pull at what feels like almost the breaking point, it will get rid of the memory from the spool, or from being on the reel, and any line twist that may have accumulated.

Also today saw how the line knicks and peels easily.... That was about 14" up from the hook.

You've kind of answered part of your question yourself.
Don't fill the spool completely. Leave the line level 1/8-1/4" down from the lip of the spool.

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