Now that all of the misenterpreters have had their say

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:33 pm

I wnat you all to know that my opinion is that a fair share to give the boater is about $40. That is unless you had some real long runs to get where the fish are. but if you launched at Russos and never got out of franks tract then aroung $20 would be a fair amount.
As a guy who has a boat but still fishes the back seat sometimes I try to judge what the boat expenses were for the day and then pay $5 or $10 more than half of my estimate. It doesent really matter whether we caught a bunch of fish or not. The boater still spent the money.
Having been born in the depression into a family who took vicious pride in never taking a handout or getting welfare of any kind, and having escorted my mother to the bank on a weekly basis to make deposits in the savings account that were as low as thirty four cents for the week, I dont ever want to be able to think of myself as a freeloader.
I pay my own way and have no respect for those who dont.

Like I said before, I buy you a beer you buy me a beer you can get away with stiffing me a couple of times but if you stiff me a third time my whole attitude about you changes. If you offer to buy me a beer and I cant afford to return the gesture, I will not accept your offer. (Beer is just an example, the attitude applies to anything)
This is the way I was raised, at 74 I doubt that there is much you can do or say to change my opinion

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:45 pm

JUST RETURNING FROM MEXICO, I AM GETTING A LITTLE CONFUSSED HERE ?? SORTA BEHIND HERE ??

JIM; WHY DO YOU START ANOTHER THREAD, THAT PERTAINS TO THE SAME ISSUE. AND WHY NOT JUST CONTINUE ON THE OLD THREAD.
ALSO
JIM; WHEN DID YOU START USING YOUR PROSTAFF LEGEND BOAT AS A PRO, I THOUGHT YOU WERE FISHING ON THE NON BOATER SIDE, (BUT THEN, SINCE I HAVE QUIT TOURNAMENTS, AND NOW HAVE NO BASS BOAT, MAYBE I AM WAY BEHIND , AND YOU ARE FISHING THE PRO SIDE THIS YEAR; PLEASE INLIGHTEN US.

THANK YOU
YOURS TRULY
JIGS

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:52 pm

Jim Conlow Sr. wrote:I wnat you all to know that my opinion is that a fair share to give the boater is about $40. That is unless you had some real long runs to get where the fish are.

So Jim... Do you give the non-boater any say in how far or where you run???

Is your non-boater part of this decision making process???

If you think your AM should pay half of the gas, then they HAVE to be part of that decision making process. If you tell them to fish where you take them, don't expect much.

I have fished with some Pros who discuss this with me up front and ask me if I have water and how far it is. Basically they team up with me and we work together as a team. Sometimes I am hooking them up with a bait that is working, other times they are helping me.

I have talked to AMs who have drawn Pros they can't stand and they walk away at the end of the day. They were pissed, and rather than get confrontational, they walked away. Now if they didn't have water and the pro turned them onto good fish and was cool, these same guys offer to pay for all the gas and buy the pro dinner and beers that night.

If you feel jaded because AMs have walked away without a word, perhaps they were a little irritated with you and the day they spent with you... I'm not saying that's the case, only an educated best guess sort of thing.

Just something to consider.... What ye shall sew, so shall ye reap.

-Paul-

bass smacker · Post by **bass smacker** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:32 pm

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo whats every one is saying is
$40.00/$50.00 for the day is a fair amount for a day fun fishing.
That competly resanable... But in all reality one should talk to the boater way in advance about this.

There is no set amount..

bassenvy · Post by **bassenvy** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:42 pm

nipples wrote:
Jim Conlow Sr. wrote:I wnat you all to know that my opinion is that a fair share to give the boater is about $40. That is unless you had some real long runs to get where the fish are.
So Jim... Do you give the non-boater any say in how far or where you run???

Is your non-boater part of this decision making process???

If you think your AM should pay half of the gas, then they HAVE to be part of that decision making process. If you tell them to fish where you take them, don't expect much.

This is an interesting point that I'm sure all of us have experienced.

InTheBlind · Post by **InTheBlind** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:49 pm

Did someone 'stiff' you ?

inquiry minds want to know

InTheBlind · Post by **InTheBlind** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:51 pm

Did someone 'stiff' you ?

inquiry minds want to know

CN · Post by CN » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:10 pm

Jim Conlow Sr. wrote:I wnat you all to know that my opinion is that a fair share to give the boater is about $40. That is unless you had some real long runs to get where the fish are. but if you launched at Russos and never got out of franks tract then aroung $20 would be a fair amount.
As a guy who has a boat but still fishes the back seat sometimes I try to judge what the boat expenses were for the day and then pay $5 or $10 more than half of my estimate. It doesent really matter whether we caught a bunch of fish or not. The boater still spent the money.
Having been born in the depression into a family who took vicious pride in never taking a handout or getting welfare of any kind, and having escorted my mother to the bank on a weekly basis to make deposits in the savings account that were as low as thirty four cents for the week, I dont ever want to be able to think of myself as a freeloader.
I pay my own way and have no respect for those who dont.

Like I said before, I buy you a beer you buy me a beer you can get away with stiffing me a couple of times but if you stiff me a third time my whole attitude about you changes. If you offer to buy me a beer and I cant afford to return the gesture, I will not accept your offer. (Beer is just an example, the attitude applies to anything)
This is the way I was raised, at 74 I doubt that there is much you can do or say to change my opinion

You want to fish "PRO"pay your own way.

Hell your not even going to catch any fish if your first concern is........man how much is this guy going chip in.

And if I'm in the back of your boat in a tournament with those expectation's you better damn well put me on some good fish.

Splash · Post by **Splash** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:49 pm

That's BS! If you want control of the boat, run your own boat. When you sign up on the am side, you are at the mercy of the "pro". It should never be influenced by how many fish you caught. It's fishing, not catching, and the same amount of gas is used either way. If you can't afford to pay your part, tell the boater you're on hard times at the pairing. That way if he is on hard times also, he can plan his day accordingly, but with fuel prices being what they are, $40 to $50 dollars on gas and oil is a deal and you shouldn't ever complain about the price. Now, if the "pro" hasn't done his homework and the day sucks, well complain about that but not that it cost you $40 or $50 dollars. At $35 a gallon for Optimax oil and fuel in the boat, you should feel lucky to get to fish for that little. Just last week I had a guy call and ask me to take him fishing to help him get ready for a tourney. On the way to the lake I stopped and put $30.00 in gas in my truck, $40.00 in my boat, stopped and got a gallon of oil and $10.00 launch fee. The guy caught an 8 and a 7 and several 3's and 4's. He was very excited about his upcomong tourney and on the way home he hands me a twenty to "help" with expenses. He called yesterday wanting to go again but this time I was too busy.......

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:16 pm

Splash wrote:He was very excited about his upcomong tourney and on the way home he hands me a twenty to "help" with expenses. He called yesterday wanting to go again but this time I was too busy.......

If I asked you to take me fishing I would have filled up your truck, boat, bought the oil, paid for the launch, and brought you an awesome lunch with a variety of your favorite drinks. I would have done everything I could to have an awesome day regardless of the bite and I would have been extremely grateful you took the time and energy to help me out.

I agree, if that guy called me, I wouldn't take him out again either... Not that it applies to tourneys, but I agree with your decision 100% and think you handled it perfectly.

If I fish a tourney with a pro who is spending half our day running around the lake because that is what HE WANTS to do, I'm not paying for his decision, I am going to offer money, but it depends on several factors. If he is milk running submerged islands and leaving me with nothing but effed up casts into 120+ water, he isn't getting a dime, my day was a waste. If we worked as a team I am offering 40 to 60 depending on boat consumption. On the flip side, if I fish a tourney with a pro who is spending half our day running around the lake because that is what I ASKED him to do, I'm paying for ALL the gas and oil we used and then some. And I will tell the pro up front, so at the end of the day, there is nothing awkward about it, he is taking my money.

It doesn't have anything to do with the fish I caught, that is a reflection of my angling skills more than anything... It comes down to mutual respect and teamwork. But more fundamental than that, it boils down to pure common sense... Some guys have it, some do not. Boat depreciation???? LOL... Give me a break.... Not!

Good Fishing,

-Paul-

bigbass111 · Post by **bigbass111** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:17 am

Splash is 100% dead on!!!!!!!

When I was a co-angler 10 years ago I gave $40 FLAT to every pro I went with. I could care less about how much gas he used (1 gallon or a full tank) $40 back then was a half tank anyways....Plus, I didn't care if he was on fish or not. I was there to learn new techiques, patterns and spot's. I wrote everything we did down to help me in the future on those lakes I had never fished before... If you as a co-angler base your tip on the days catch or how much he helped you or listened to you about YOUR spots, your crazy and a freeloader...Your their to watch and learn, and maybe if your lucky cash a check... The stuff you learn as a co-angler is worth 10x's more than a measly 40-50 bucks..

If you cant afford it don't fish, if you expect the pro to go to your spots don't fish and If you expect to whack them because he's a "pro" and should know better, GO FISH A HATCHERY AND SAVE YOUR MONEY....

Or spend $45,000 of your own money on a boat, pay the bigger entrie's and all the pre-fishing costs that go with it and "SHUT UP"

Your their to LEARN...And if your a "Pro Co-angler" you should know better..........

Noluk · Post by **Noluk** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:03 am

I know situations vary but I would like some input from some of the big boat guys. How many mpg does a 225 on a 20 foot bass boat get? If your not wide open it is about 4 mpg correct? I have a smaller boat and smaller motor so at cruising speeds I get close to 7 mpg.

I make a rough guess of 4 mpg when I am figuring out cost estimates when I am fishing on someone else's boat. And I guess that every minute running is a mile. So a long run of 30 miles(further than Clear Lake end to end) each day, moving around to spots and the run back should be 70 or 75 miles. This is allot of running btw. 75 miles at 4 mpg is about 18.75 so lets call it 20 gallons of gas. Oil is mixed at 50:1 so that is a bit less than half a gallon. At 35 bucks for a gallon of oil, lets call it 17.00 worth of oil. The gas at 3.50 a gallon is 70.00. 87.00 dollars for the day for the on the water fuel costs. That is on a hard running day. Is this accurate?

I am not going to consider the boaters towing costs, truck costs etc unless he is giving me a truck ride as well. 90% of the time I am meeting my boater or non-boater at the launch facility anyway. The non boater has to drive there and park etc just as much as a boater does.

40.00 seems to be a very fair amount for expenses based on a day with some decent runs. Outside of the Delta, I think you would be hard pressed to run harder than that. Now if your on Clear lake, launch at the Casino, fish Redbud, hit some docks in the north, run down to Rattlesnake, hit Shag rock, try bass alley and finish up on long tule point then you might have to reconsider but runs like that are a boaters decision. I am not certain that a non-boater has an obligation to defray all of the costs when your spending more time running than fishing. On a similiar note, do you pay less to a boater if he has an 18 foot rig and a 150 than to a 20 footer with a 225? Even if you fish the same waters etc? We seem to have this same discussion every year. This year it seems more pointed because it is starting to get financialy tough. Every time I look at a new 20 -21 foot boat with a 225 XS or a 250, the back of my mind remembers that my little 186 with a 135 gets close to twice the gas mileage as a big rig. And only runs 10-15 mph slower on average.

Dan McKenzie · Post by **Dan McKenzie** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:05 am

your a real piece of work. if your mind is made up and your not likely to change it as you say, why start the thread?
are you bored and got nothing else to do? do you need attention?
inquiring minds want to know.

mac (Doyle McEwen) · Post by **mac (Doyle McEwen)** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:10 am

If I reimbursed my boaters by the number of fish I caught, most wouldn't get paid very much if any..Not that they didn't give me plenty of opportunities to catch fish, just that I often have trouble putting them in the boat..Many are saying they wouldn't pay if this, that, or the other happens..Perhaps that should have some effect on the amount, but not on if you should help cover expenses for the day or not..I do not own a boat, I don't own a vehicle or a drivers liscense so if I go chances are the boater is picking me up..I have no problem at all paying for the gas to and from or the gas used on the water..If I did, I wouldn't go..Some are trying to make it sound as though Jim expects a nonboater to make his boat and truck payments, that is not the case..He talked about other costs involved with owning a boat to show there was more than just gas. oil and launch fees involved..All of these things help determine if a boatert will even put his boat in the water, at the least we the non-boaters can help cover the days expenses on the water..

mac

Buzzbait · Post by **Buzzbait** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:19 am

I'm with Nipples here, for the most part, but I also think that a flat rate of about $40 is a fair payment.

I also agree that this should be discussed before the fact. For instance, Bassmandan offered to take me out and before I even met him he said on the phone, "we'll split the gas," and it was as simple as that. What ever the cost of gas for the boat that day we'd split. The trip never happened as other things got in the way, but I was expecting to pay around $40. Now I kinda wonder if it would have been more or less.......I guess we might have to make that trip after all just to find out.....huh Bassman.

I think everyone should just remember that when you take an AM out on your boat they are not paying you a guide rate, rather they are splitting the immediate expenses...period.

With that said, I am still waiting on Jim to ask me to dinner, which he said he'd pay for.

Joe W. · Post by **Joe W.** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:41 am

Seems to me if guys are worried about getting paid by the ams they should just go ahead and not fish draw tourneys.

I of couse always pay my own way in everything that I do, but I don't know if it's right for a pro to expect anything from the am in a draw tourney.

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:46 am

clear communication ahead of time will resolve 100% of this issue.

the old saying: "expectations are simply premeditated resentments" holds true here

if you as a boater expect that your co will cover whatever expenses you feel are approp without having a conversation about your expections? might as well get to feeling resentful right away.

I'd like to know ahead of time that Jim is going to ask me for $ to cover depreciatation (i dont think he would but it's a good example) then I would have the info needed to know that I should decline his generous offer to get out with him and seek out another ride. but because he has communicated his expectations I have the info I need to make the decision not to go and Jim doesnt feel shafted and I'm not left feeling taken advantage of - win win.

if you as a co expect to show up and only pay $20 to get your butt hauled all around all day then you better expect some attitude back at you. guy I know from awhile back used to club fish, pay $10 to the boater vs the club mandated $20 and then ask for $5 back from the boater so that he could get a hamburger at the end of the day... that didn't go over so very well, guys started dropping out instead of fishing with him when he was drawn. no wonder.

If both the boater and the co take responsibility for having the conversation about expenses the very first time the subject comes up about getting out together then everybody should know what the expectations are and have a chance to agree or disagree on getting together.

from the co side and speaking only for myself - I **hate** when a boater at the of the day says "pay me whatever you think is right". Eff me, its not my boat, I have no idea what you burned, I didn't pay the ramp fee - sack up and give me a number, not this passive-aggressive crap. Now I have to figure out what number you have in your head - I'm not flippin Harry Houdini. when I shoot you $50 and your response is a big sigh and a rolling of the eyes then I'm about ready to punch you in the face and take my money back.

communicate early, communicate often

Calistar · Post by **Calistar** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:40 am

communicate early, communicate often

Thanks Mike...your post is spot on (except maybe for the punching in the face part...but I get your point).

If Everyone would just communicate up front, then all of these issues would be a mute point. There would be no hard feelings.

I have a buddy (boater) that its like pulling teeth to let me pay my fair share. He's one of those "I'm going fishing anyway" type of guys and he's just a nice guy. But I know its not cheap to run those boats and I appreciate it when he asks me to go...so I want to make sure I pay my part.

I ALWAYS ask the boater up front if I can give him money right there...or if he would prefer to wait till the end of the day. That opens the discussion about the amount. Whatever he says, I pay. Now, you might think that I might be taken financially advantage of...but in all the years I've been fishing, I've never had any boater ask me for an unfair amount. Normally I pay the launch and we split the gas that the boat uses that day. If I ride with him in his truck, then we split the gas used to get there and back. Simple.

This is not a cheap sport, except when you consider the enjoyment you get out of a day of fishing...then I think its a real value.

Greg H.

CN · Post by CN » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:13 am

Hey Splash I do own my own boat.A 20'6" 2000 Ranger 519dvs with a 225hp Envinrude.I also own a 2004 26' Grady White that I use in Monterey Bay.

Also Iv'e owned a Bass boat since 1976 so I think I know a little about the cost of owning a boat.

The rate thing's are going in this great state I will probably have to sell both in a few more year's to someone out of California.

Have a good day

PS:Jim just like's to stir the pot and he obviosly accomplished his goal.Also my last post

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:36 am

Great post MikeD but I myself am one of those guys that say pay me what ever you think is fair.

This is mainly because I don't need the money and, when I started as a co-angler I didn't have a pot to piss in. I was a broke college student and $20 buck was the difference between eating and not eating.

Nonetheless, I agree that communication is the key. If a guy was down on his luck and said he didn't have it, it would be a biggie for me.

I have had guys try to give me 80-100 bucks and I refuse and might only take 20-40, if anything, because some guys get mad if you don't anything.

I just love to fish and have fun.