FLW Delta Boat wreck

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:50 am

What is the deal with all the boats making sudden hard turns into the bank ?
This last year my friend was in his Bass Cat at lake Don Pedro and his boat makes a ninty degree turn into the bank ejecting his passenger , luckily no one was hurt .
Yesterday my other friend is fishing the National Guard tourney at the Delta his Pro Partner was Matt Newman his boat made a ninty degree turn into the levee ? The water was calm and no wakes and they were running about 60 mph my friend said and it happend so fast before they knew it they were on the bank , another boat pulled them back into the water and they kept fishing but were pretty shaken up over the deal .
I also heard that Gabe Bolivar had something similar happen to him at the Columbia event where he was ejected ? Same thing happend to Dobyns , and these guys are all experienced drivers who know how to drive a boat . I wonder how many other boats have done the same exact thing .
What is the real scoop on why these boats are making these sudden violent turns for no apparent reason ? It sounds like the same thing keeps happening with different brands of boats and it sounds like just a matter of time before someone gets killed .

thejerbs · Post by **thejerbs** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:49 am

I had a friend put his boat up on the levee after he turned to avoid another boater and braced him self by pushing on his hotfoot while turning.

Tin Can · Post by **Tin Can** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:53 am

I am pretty sure it's prop failure that is causing these accidents most of the time. A piece of the prop sheers off and in a lot of cases caused major damage to the lower unit.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:56 am

Does he have an Evinrude on that Basscat? Just asking. Rick G.

Brian Ruthman · Post by **Brian Ruthman** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:08 am

No my other friend at Don Pedro had a Pro xs 250 Mercury on his Bass Cat . And there was no damage to his Prop from what i was told it smashed up the front and bottom of the boat . He was just going straight then a 90 degree turn into the bank into a big rock that sent the boat straight up into the air , there was no real waves or anything he said he was just going straight .
My friend Bill S. that was with Matt Newman yesterday said the water was flat , when they got pulled back into the water they went fishing the rest of the day , i did hear his Bass Cat boat was only a few weeks old . I wonder if there could be some air in one side of the hydraulic steering system , if so maybe it would allow the motor to torque to one side sending the boat to the bank .
Or maybe it has something to do with the hydraulic lift plate that raises the motor up . Im not sure but someone needs to figure it out .
Throwing a blade on the prop seems like it would make the motor vibrate because of the prop being out of balance , but that is about it . I have heard of different people throwing a blade and nothing much has ever happened , except a bunch of vibration .

Steve Ericksen · Post by **Steve Ericksen** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:18 am

He runs a mercury.

swimbait · Post by **swimbait** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:51 am

Cris and I threw a blade at Pedro one time. We were running on pad, maybe 50-60mph. The blade broke clean off at the base. All that happened was that the motor started shaking violently. Cris shut it down. There was no steering issue when it happened.

Not saying this is what happens always when a blade comes off, just relating an experience...

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:16 am

When I put a larger hp engine on my pontoon the torque on the steering to the right was a tremendous increase to the point on long drives it hurts my hand to hold it in one spot. It has to be a steering or prop issue. Could it be that a damaged blade but not a thrown blade could cause more torque? Just throwing out ideas.

Norv · Post by **Norv** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:28 am

If they were running at speed and trimmed out they may have experienced what is called "caught a chine." This occurs when the boat is "flying" on the pad and high out of the water, then the boat loses its balance or slightly rocks to one side and the hull begins to settle back in the water. Then when one of the chines hits the water it's like driving your car real fast and having your front tire hit a deep rut in the road. You will suddenly veer off in the direction of the rut. The result is an instant and violent right or left turn. This has been a problem with high speed racing boats for years. If anyone has seen a boat race where the boat suddenly turns or flips over sideways they probably "caught a chine." Most of the time it's a result of going over a wave or wake. But, it can happen any time the boat rocks to one side or another at high speed. The only thing about when it occurs at high speed the turn is much more violent and difficult to recover from.

This is the same thing that can happen when a boat starts to "chine walk." If it rocks enough to "catch a chine" the result will be a violent turn. It can also occur if you are running at speed and suddenly decrease the throttle.

This is a characteristic of high performance boats and the boat owners need to be aware of their boat's characteristics and not drive beyound their boats or their capabilities.

Greg_Cornish · Post by **Greg_Cornish** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:50 am

I bet you're right Norm, I never knew that.

obsessed fisherman · Post by **obsessed fisherman** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:14 am

Norval
Thanks. I'm new to the sport, but heard about this happening. The guys talking about it said there was no damage and continued fishing--luckily. Good reminder to always have on life vests and know the limits of our equipment.
Jim

StogieMan · Post by **StogieMan** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:32 am

Been there done that.

I know what's happening and so do the unfortunate drivers mentioned in this post. By the way the term used to describe what has happened is called "Hooking"

BassManDan · Post by **BassManDan** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:33 am

I wouldn't be surprised if some serious chine walking is sometimes exacerbated by the molded contours on the hull, ya know all the little splash rails and design lines that make a boat "look better"

The only things high speeds do for ya is get you in trouble Faster!

...well I suppose it makes you feel really cool too

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:36 am

WOW - sure glad Matt and the backseater were OK!

Roger

Jeff Jewell · Post by **Jeff Jewell** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:41 am

Guy's
The important thing to remember is to where you PFD. Hey if someone like Gary Dobyns can get thrown from a boat so can you and me..........

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:44 am

Last year there was a very close call when Brian Slavich's boat suddleny encountered a failure in the power stearing. There was a fatality as well last year by Franks that was determined to be the root cause of a power stearing failure as well along with not having hte kill switch attached.

Keep checking your boats equipment every time for loos nuts, bolts, sressed accessories, non-lubes parts, worn bushings ect..

I checked my power stearing to see it possibly it had an airbubble or possibly moisture in the sea star fluid that was causing a little chine -- I was about 3/4 cup low in my resivor before I even started bleeding it.

YZKEN250 · Post by **YZKEN250** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:12 pm

Last year Ryan Germans boat flipped as well. His 250ProXS is still at the bottom of the delta.

Rich hamilton · Post by **Rich hamilton** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:12 pm

Brian,

I better check the prop on our new type 3, u guys did test drive it (family) before u sent it out didnt u?

Santa Ana's coming soon, time for it to lose its virginity!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:13 pm

A thought, might want to think about slowing down, what i used to do was trim down a tad, never did have a issue with my 21 ft Triton with the Merc 225. at 70. At 80. I felt it was pushing it to much and trimmed up a tad to much asking for trouble.. Whats in a extra second or two anyway ??

Jigs...................back to 40 to 55 MPH and loving it !!

rich mendoza · Post by **rich mendoza** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:14 pm

Jeff Jewell wrote:Guy's
The important thing to remember is to where you PFD. Hey if someone like Gary Dobyns can get thrown from a boat so can you and me..........

what about your pic

Ringer · Post by **Ringer** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:33 pm

I heard some of the new Ranger hulls were catching a chine and causing a hard uncontrolled turn. My bet is you will not see any admissions about that but that is the rumor circulating about the 520 hull. If the engine is running and the prop is on and the steering did not fail then the hull is the likely culprit.

brambo0311 · Post by **brambo0311** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:38 pm

YZKEN250 wrote:Last year Ryan Germans boat flipped as well. His 250ProXS is still at the bottom of the delta.

Delta is kinda a vague description of were. You got a GPS on that part number...

........ I will swim for it.

BigBassWorks · Post by **BigBassWorks** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:46 pm

brambo0311 wrote:
YZKEN250 wrote:Last year Ryan Germans boat flipped as well. His 250ProXS is still at the bottom of the delta.
Delta is kinda a vague description of were. You got a GPS on that part number... ........ I will swim for it.

copy that ...whats the Numbers....

Slippy · Post by **Slippy** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:06 pm

JIGSRETIRED wrote:A thought, might want to think about slowing down, what i used to do was trim down a tad, never did have a issue with my 21 ft Triton with the Merc 225. at 70. At 80. I felt it was pushing it to much and trimmed up a tad to much asking for trouble.. Whats in a extra second or two anyway ??

Jigs...................back to 40 to 55 MPH and loving it !!

dont feel bad Dan cant drive it either.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:18 pm

DeltaDan wrote:Last year there was a very close call when Brian Slavich's boat suddleny encountered a failure in the power stearing.

My deal was just a bad relay switch on the trim. It went bad and the motor trimmed out of the water at speed in a corner. No lower end in the water=no rudder= 180 spin=wasnt that big of a deal. I missed the rip rap by a foot or so.

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:23 pm

brambo0311 wrote: Delta is kinda a vague description of were. You got a GPS on that part number... .

In the channel near Holland Marina -- Jumped a wave by a bigger boat that was ahead of him going the same direction and got airborn- then apparently nose plowed.

The hull/transom did not look that bad at all from the pic's -- It was his JP that grenaded.

Jeff Jewell · Post by **Jeff Jewell** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:30 pm

rich mendoza wrote:
Jeff Jewell wrote:Guy's
The important thing to remember is to where you PFD. Hey if someone like Gary Dobyns can get thrown from a boat so can you and me..........
what about your pic

Well I didin't wear it much except in tourney's until BDO's crash. I figure as much time as he spends on the water, he be a better boat handler than me. Thing is I knew better anyway, I've had the Coast Guard class and the stats they tell you are amazing, when it comes to PFD's, and alchol use while boating

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:52 pm

If you're gonna run like that, PFD and Kill Switch.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:12 pm

I always think that I am much more likely to fall in the water when I am fishing than when I am driving.

In the winter wearing full rain gear it could be very dificult to get back in the boat. Even with a strong partner trying to help you.

This is why I wear a self inflating life jacket that lets me fish to my hearts content and works whether I am driving or fishing. I also have a folding ladder on the back of the boat to help me or a partner if we fall in.

It would be a horrible last thought to know that you were going to die for lack of lifejacket and a ladder.

By the way I also suspect that these sudden turns are caused by sudden chine drag on one side of the boat. It would be like if you had to make a sudden high speed stop wit your car and the brakes only worked on one side

barse41 · Post by **barse41** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:40 pm

running your jackplate too high will cause your prop to leave the water on the waves which is just like doing a burnout and catching traction and darting off in one direction

cleb19 · Post by **cleb19** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:54 pm

I was in the boat that helped Matt off of the levee. It all happened to fast. Matt is a very good and safe driver. When we pulled up he had said he lost something in his steering hooking a corner, could've been a deal of things. Just glad Matt and Bill where both alright.

cleb

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:42 pm

Curiosity is getting the best of me. Why did we not hear of this back in the days of the 300 and 400 series rangers ? Or the like for other models, Skeeter, Procraft, etc, etc.

Jigs

norththird · Post by **norththird** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:23 pm

The earlier boats that only had one steering cable would hook when the cable would break. But, we didn't have the internet to relay this information.

DeltaDan · Post by **DeltaDan** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:57 pm

JIGSRETIRED wrote: Why did we not hear of this back in the days of the 300 and 400 series rangers ? Or the like for other models, Skeeter, Procraft, etc, etc.

There was no internet back then !!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:01 pm

YOU GUYS , SEEMS I HAD AOL 2.0 OR SOMETHING 3.0 ??? 1990'S

I STILL STAND BY WHAT I THINK, "ITS TO MUCH SPEED" WITH 10 TIMES THE NUMBER OF BOATS

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:44 pm

First its not speed. My bullet runs 85 at 166 ft and 82 on lake mead. Next there is no 225 power 19+ft triton going 80MPH unless its on the highway. Its physically impossible. Maybe your speedo says 80, but mine blows the water tube at 100 and its only 70ish on the GPS. I run about 1.5inches above the pad on my prop and I surface it. We ( in the fast boat side) sling blades all the time and don't hook.
Its fairly easy to hook, if you arent paying attention and jerk the wheel slightly at the wrong time. Obviously trimmed out is going to make it more interesting. What will happen is you wil lbe trimmed up flying the pad, then if something happens, you turn too much hit a ripple wrong, to the point that the hull loses lift on one side its going to drop on that side and you are makin a turn in that direction.

Heck I can post you some pics of a guy hooking his allison for fun at 40ish or somethin insanely slow to hook at.

YZKEN250 · Post by **YZKEN250** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:27 am

brambo0311 wrote:
YZKEN250 wrote:Last year Ryan Germans boat flipped as well. His 250ProXS is still at the bottom of the delta.
Delta is kinda a vague description of were. You got a GPS on that part number... ........ I will swim for it.

We have all tried. He wont give it up.

fish_food · Post by **fish_food** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:40 am

YZKEN250 wrote:
brambo0311 wrote:
YZKEN250 wrote:Last year Ryan Germans boat flipped as well. His 250ProXS is still at the bottom of the delta.
Delta is kinda a vague description of were. You got a GPS on that part number... ........ I will swim for it.
We have all tried. He wont give it up.

Look for the gasoline and/or oil slick trail...

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:47 am

Another opportunity to say..... SLOW DOWN!

Don.

j10b · Post by **j10b** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:07 pm

If someone is taking what I said as the pros not knowing how to drive read again. I do think the pros can drive. you cant blame them for a gearcase blasting. In a few cases I wont name brands but some hull changes have been made and I think it may be the reason.

I will say you can hook a boat at any speed.

Ricky-S · Post by **Ricky-S** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

In my experience on the Delta is that the problem can be the current.

Unlike a lake, you can easily lose control of ANY boat on the delta as you turn in a different direction that the current is going in.

At higher speeds the tide can cause the back end of any boat to continue in the direction of the current as the driver tries to turn in a different direction. Thus the boat slides or hooks. Slowing down in these conditions is the easy answer, however, often the drive cannot see the or feel the current until it is too late.

Things happen quickly at 60-70 mph! Be safe.

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:15 am

I have been thinking about the wind, as you come around a corner.

Often you can run somewhat protected, down some slough because the levee is providing a windbreak.

Come around the corner, and the boat might not just have a current change, but one heck of a change in the wind lifting the hull. The boat is up out of the water, and you are flying it like a fuselage without wings on the air currents. The boat might not blow over like a pickle fork, but that might contribute to "hooking" a chine. I think some of these loss of control accidents might have something to do strong winds, or gusts and the boat changing direction like rounding a corner. It was pretty windy during this FLW for example.

.02 A.G.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:06 am

One last comment from me. I can remember in my 300 series Ranger on Clearlake. all out about 65 MPH , a gust or wind would come up and you could feel it lift and move out in open water. I can imagine at a turn and the same thing happening, you could loose control for a split second. Again, it is all about speed and trim/lift.

Thank you

Jigs................this is only my two cents worth of it.....I do not believe it has to do with hull mismanufacturing, or prop breakage, although I am sure throwing a blade would do some damage and be spooky.

Smile_n_Jax · Post by **Smile_n_Jax** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:46 am

I remember reading somewhere that, when making a turn or jumping wakes, you should trim down to keep as much prop in the water as possible.

Jim Conlow Sr. · Post by **Jim Conlow Sr.** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:34 am

Several posts back you suggested that as a safety measure you should inspect your boat regularly to make sure that there are no loose cionnections in your boat.
My problem is that if I were to eliminate all loose nuts from my boat I would have to quit driving it

CN · Post by CN » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:30 am

bassindon69 wrote:Another opportunity to say..... SLOW DOWN!

Don.

I agree 100% Don.

Tags

Notice