Yamaha's new outboard engine

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Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Brian D. » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:09 pm

Anyone with inside scoop know what they're gonna put out? A newer/better version of a Verado-type engine?

From Bassfan.com: Yamaha's set to reveal some big news next month about what appears to be a new bass-boat motor. No word at all on what it's all about, except that it's going to be exciting. In fact, Yamaha's holding a special event next month in Chattanooga, Tenn. for the unveiling. The event is described as the biggest new-product event in the company's history. Stay tuned.
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby FRANK D. LOZANO » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:29 pm

My contacts say that it is a 10,000 rpm 4 stroke motor that they say will change the marine industry. They say it is a motor capable of spinning 12k rpm detuned to 10k rpm.

Yamaha is a pretty conservative company but they are really excited about it. This may explain why they dropped the HPDI in California knowing they had this in the wings.

I personally am looking forward to seeing them and hope they are as good as they say.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby 896J » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:33 pm

If those motors turn out as good as the rumors, my little 200 2.5L Merc might be replaced with a 200 Yamaha VMax 4-stroke. I keep hearing that the weight for these new 4-strokes is going to be in the ballpark with 2-strokes, I hope this is true. That said, some of those yamaha 4-stroke PWC's have 165 HP from a tiny little 4-cylinder motor. My neighbor has one of those PWC's and I couldn't believe how small the motor was, especially for a 4-stroke. Hopefully, the price will be the same as the HPDI outboards they're replacing.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:49 pm

896J wrote:If those motors turn out as good as the rumors, my little 200 2.5L Merc might be replaced with a 200 Yamaha VMax 4-stroke. I keep hearing that the weight for these new 4-strokes is going to be in the ballpark with 2-strokes, I hope this is true. That said, some of those yamaha 4-stroke PWC's have 165 HP from a tiny little 4-cylinder motor. My neighbor has one of those PWC's and I couldn't believe how small the motor was, especially for a 4-stroke. Hopefully, the price will be the same as the HPDI outboards they're replacing.


Sure hope they figure out how to keep the power throughout the powerband, or its gonna be a LOOOOONG holeshot.

That or a transmission. getting to 10k is gonna take a LOOOONG time.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby tunaman » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:28 pm

Also sure hope they figured out how to keep the weight down... those Verados are one heavy mutha!

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby macinckirk » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:25 am

tunaman wrote:Also sure hope they figured out how to keep the weight down... those Verados are one heavy mutha!

Roger


As of right now I hear there only about 22lbs more then the HPDI and if you take out the oil tank weight in the boat there REAL Close to the same

I'm not a big fan of the 4's we have right now but I'm looking forward to see these with a 20" shaft they may have hit a home run but time will tell.
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby tunaman » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:43 am

I really liked the Verado when I rode on a Z21 with one (Won Pro/Am at Mead) - it is real quiet (REALLY REALLY quiet!) even WOT, and the powerband was pretty decent. They're just way too heavy for a tournament bass boat.

If Yammie got that right, I'd expect they'll sell a ton of 'em.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby rich mendoza » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:08 am

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:53 am

There are a zillion factors that go into that. Props etc. In my boats case if I put one prop on my holeshot is sick, but topend sucks.

Unless it has more than one gear, you will get one or the other. Holeshot or top end.

1: the boat on the right is trimmed higher, look at the wake, the one on the right is farther back
2. the boat on the right has a powerpole. Seems it was biased test.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Andrew Jackson » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:21 am

...And the critics come out to play. You must not own one. A Merc guy? No matter what the make, if that motor can hit them specs from above post. Watch out! A new Jaguar and that motor. Sweet!

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby rich mendoza » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:04 am

if they carry over the sport bike technalogy. those new outboard engines could hit 12k rpm no problem.
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Ringer » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:37 am

If any company can figure out high rpm 4-stroke technology it will be Yamaha. Why would they fake a test? We will all know if it is BS or a revolutionary change after the first few hit the market. Not many secrets in the fishing business. I would love to buy a good performing motor that allowed me to hear myself think while running.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:28 pm

Skeptic? No you guys dont seem to realize that bikes and cars have GEARS to keep it in the powerband. There isn't a motor built that can output max HP and Tq throughout the WHOLE power band.

Most high reving cars( because a boat weighs what a car does) are usually dogs off the line or you risk breaking parts. IE s2000 requires a scary clutch dump to get the numbers they put out. Usually guys leave the driveshaft in the staging area.


Boats dont have more than ONE gear.

Fake a test? Never said that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Its easy to see the bow angle of the 2 boats the one on the left has a lower nose. The one on the right has a powerpole, not that 50 pounds will kill it but it shows the test is not sterile.
IE two of the same boat both setup to run.
See I can give you a 26p prop and you will have sick holeshot and ZERO top end.
Or I can give you a 30pitch and your holeshot will suck but you will rock on the top end.
At least in MY boat thats how it works

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby FRANK D. LOZANO » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Possible dual prop technology and or a 2-speed gearbox. Acceleration and bite with German torpedo dual prop technology is unbelievable.

Look at the different prop wash turbulence between boats in the video.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby BuckSnort » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:53 pm

The marine industry is way behind on 4 stroke innovation....I remember back in my motocross days when 2 strokes ruled...Then Yamaha came out w/ the YZf 400 and 426 and changed everything...

Maybe they will do the same with the outboards?

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:02 am

FRANK D. LOZANO wrote:Possible dual prop technology and or a 2-speed gearbox. Acceleration and bite with German torpedo dual prop technology is unbelievable.

Look at the different prop wash turbulence between boats in the video.

Frank



That would be believable and unbelievable performance. Good luck when that stuff breaks though.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Ringer » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:42 am

j10b, I was not putting words in your mouth. Just saying that Yamaha can hype the new motor all they want but within weeks people will know the exact capabilities. I hope they have a new mousetrap but we will soon know. I agree that it seems impossible to get the balance between hole shot and top end. I do believe they will shed the weight which is a big deal.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Oldschool » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:59 am

Way back in the dark ages (1950's & 60's) we ran Mercury OB's that turned 10K+ prm's up to 500 miles during indurance races.
I don't see any major issues with a 4 stroke OB turning 10K and the prop issues aren't any different today then 40 or 50 years ago.
A bass boat loaded with gear and full livewells puts the weight at the back of the boat and that is a problem to overcome when demanding both top end speed and quick planning time.
One solution is variable pitch props and it will be interesting to see what Yamaha has to offer.
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Jim Moulton » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:47 am

Bucksnort. Not to pick on you but it takes a 450 four stroke to beat a 250 two stroke. A four stroke dirtbike motor weighs more than a two stroke motor. They have cut the weight in other areas of the bike to make up the diffirence. If Yamaha can do the same with an outboard it should be good.
As long as the outboard motor companys continue to try and improve thier products us fishermen will reap the benefits. Remmber the old carb motors on how much fuel and oil they burned? Jim
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:07 am

Ringer wrote:j10b, I was not putting words in your mouth. Just saying that Yamaha can hype the new motor all they want but within weeks people will know the exact capabilities. I hope they have a new mousetrap but we will soon know. I agree that it seems impossible to get the balance between hole shot and top end. I do believe they will shed the weight which is a big deal.


:wink:

Gotcha


As a pilot I have flown with VPP. Thats a variable pitch propeller.

You have no ideas the issue with that unless its auto controlled. Its going to take a LOT of learning to get it right.
Sorry but the cost of repair. Seeing there are no logs, gators, rocks, stumps, sandbars, different weights in the air and water if the prop surfaces, in the Air. All of that exists in the water.

Like Tom said. demanding a top end and acceleration is going to be expensive or interesting. If they figure it out... no one will own a merc.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby BuckSnort » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:57 pm

Jim Moulton wrote:Bucksnort. Not to pick on you but it takes a 450 four stroke to beat a 250 two stroke. A four stroke dirtbike motor weighs more than a two stroke motor. They have cut the weight in other areas of the bike to make up the diffirence. If Yamaha can do the same with an outboard it should be good.
As long as the outboard motor companys continue to try and improve thier products us fishermen will reap the benefits. Remmber the old carb motors on how much fuel and oil they burned? Jim


Jim, The 4 stroke motors got really light when they shortened the stroke and got rid of all that metal....

And now the 250 4 strokes are kicking 250 2 strokes ***'s.....

I agree w/ the fisherman reaping the benifits...However I believe most of Yam's money for R&D gets spent on dirt sports and we have to wait for it to run down hill into the marine ind.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Byron » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:09 pm

Which 4-strokes are beating who's 2-strokes ? They might be blowing away the E-tecs but I don't think they are beating the black ones.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby rich mendoza » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:18 pm

byron, your gettin ahead of us. the last few posts are about dirt bikes.

if they got a supercharger on a verado, could they put a turbo on the yamaha?
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Byron » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:24 pm

Oops!!! Screwed up there. Maybe Suzuki should install a Hayabusa motor on a 20" lower.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby R. Duzac » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:44 am

Can anyone remember when Honda came out with the Oval Piston 4 stroke to compete with the superbikes?

It was around 1980.
It also had about 150 HP with a readline around 17K RPM.

I've looked for articles because it was a really engineering piece of work. If anyone has a URL to with information on it please post it or send it to me.

Back then they said the first place we would probably see the technology was in the Marine Industry.

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Postby Brian D. » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:48 am

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Paul Cormany » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:38 am

The rumors I heard, and I repeat rumors, they will be offering only 200 & 250 HP in 2010. Anyone hear anything different?

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Tin Can » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:12 am

BuckSnort wrote:
Jim Moulton wrote:Bucksnort. Not to pick on you but it takes a 450 four stroke to beat a 250 two stroke. A four stroke dirtbike motor weighs more than a two stroke motor. They have cut the weight in other areas of the bike to make up the diffirence. If Yamaha can do the same with an outboard it should be good.
As long as the outboard motor companys continue to try and improve thier products us fishermen will reap the benefits. Remmber the old carb motors on how much fuel and oil they burned? Jim


Jim, The 4 stroke motors got really light when they shortened the stroke and got rid of all that metal....

And now the 250 4 strokes are kicking 250 2 strokes ***'s.....



250 4-strokes are still not producing the power of a 250 2-stroke. Besides that, they are far heavier. My 2002 RM 125 2-stroke makes ~30HP, which is as much as a brand new 2009 CRF 250 4-stroke makes. Take into consideration the power to weight ratio and you have yourself a faster 2-stroke CC for CC. My bike's dry weight is 180lbs. a 250 4-stroke weighs in at 250lbs.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:08 am

Yamaha has some awesome 4-stroke MX technology. I'm looking forward to c how this new outboard performs and hope all the bugs will b worked out when it's time for my new sled..

as for the MX remarks,,, just to level the claims, refer to Yami's 2010 line up...... YZ125cc (2stroke) weigh n at 208lbs, a comparable YZ250F (4 stroker) weighs about 225lbs and will kill the 2-stroker on a track..... better low end torque and smoother power delivery..... those small 2-strokers turn on like a light switch,,, but that same explosive power which is a draw back for dirt traction is a plus for outboard hole shot.... different arenas

a YZ250 (2 stroke) weighs about 229lbs compared to a YZ450F at about 245lbs.. the bigger CC bikes are much more competative against one another on a track

comparable HP 4-strokes will always be heavier, but tend to make up for the weight with other advantages.... and Yami's titanium valve MX strokers are capable of screaming RPM'S well into the mid teens....... I hope their new outbaord is the schnizzle

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby big_gorilla » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:29 pm

Cormany, shouldn't you be hunting somewhere? ha ha

I for one am excited to see what Yamaha is going to do. The only thing we can hope is that they will live up to the hype. I for one love my HPDI and can only hope Yamaha is only going to get better.
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby biteme » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:16 pm

j10b wrote:Skeptic? No you guys dont seem to realize that bikes and cars have GEARS to keep it in the powerband. There isn't a motor built that can output max HP and Tq throughout the WHOLE power band.

Most high reving cars( because a boat weighs what a car does) are usually dogs off the line or you risk breaking parts. IE s2000 requires a scary clutch dump to get the numbers they put out. Usually guys leave the driveshaft in the staging area.


Boats dont have more than ONE gear.

Fake a test? Never said that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Its easy to see the bow angle of the 2 boats the one on the left has a lower nose. The one on the right has a powerpole, not that 50 pounds will kill it but it shows the test is not sterile.
IE two of the same boat both setup to run.
See I can give you a 26p prop and you will have sick holeshot and ZERO top end.
Or I can give you a 30pitch and your holeshot will suck but you will rock on the top end.
At least in MY boat thats how it works

I owned a R1 sportbike that would do 108mph in 1st gear :shock:

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby bassinDerek » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:34 pm

Tin Can we got to go riding i got the same size bike i got a 2001 KX 125 2 stroke and i smoked a 250f on mine he wasnt good tho but 2 strokes got the speed and top end but a 4 stroke is heavier will carry the power out unlike a 2 stroke you always have to stay on the gas for speed and top end
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Rodney » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:30 pm

i talked with some insiders at the us open and from what i was told the new out board will be the biggest thing to ever hit the boating world.i have worked on a project with yamaha in the past a offroad race car called the xt rally it had a yamaha gennises bike engine they would never let us see the inside of it.i do know that we could pick it up by hand it made 480 hp at 13.000 rpm.it pushed a 4wheel drive car 120mph in the dirt.cant wait.
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby BuckSnort » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:35 pm

The new 4 stroke Dirt bikes are lighter than the 2's

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Rich hamilton » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:34 am

I sure love my yammie 250 HDPI
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:35 am

biteme wrote:I owned a R1 sportbike that would do 108mph in 1st gear :shock:


what did that R1 weigh? 1700lbs? How much of that bike was on the road? IE friction? :wink:

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Corey Fenske » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:55 am

j10b,

Dude, it sounds like you know everything about this. Why is it that you are not the one designing the product. Oh... right, Yamaha knows what they are doing. Why dont you quit being so anti 4 stroke and just let the multi billion dollar company come out with their product, and when the motor is faster than what you drive, be the first to come on this forum and give Yamaha pat on the back and say good job.If anyone knows how to make a 4 stroke run, Yamaha is the company.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby biteme » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:22 pm

Corey Fenske wrote:j10b,

Dude, it sounds like you know everything about this. Why is it that you are not the one designing the product. Oh... right, Yamaha knows what they are doing. Why dont you quit being so anti 4 stroke and just let the multi billion dollar company come out with their product, and when the motor is faster than what you drive, be the first to come on this forum and give Yamaha pat on the back and say good job.If anyone knows how to make a 4 stroke run, Yamaha is the company.

That was my point :wink: Thanks

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby M. Warner » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:09 pm

boy j10b, why the hell dont you just go work for yamaha since you know so much about everything. Do you think that they will put something out on the market that wasnt correct. Look at the mercury optis when they came out, they had problems, everyone has problems. You have gotta be a merc guy, nothing wrong with them, i have never owned a merc just a yamaha. but i would believe they have everything worked out on it, and from the email that i have recieved from yamaha, that new yami looks great and it will run great.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:37 pm

M. Warner wrote:boy j10b, why the hell dont you just go work for yamaha since you know so much about everything. Do you think that they will put something out on the market that wasnt correct. Look at the mercury optis when they came out, they had problems, everyone has problems. You have gotta be a merc guy, nothing wrong with them, i have never owned a merc just a yamaha. but i would believe they have everything worked out on it, and from the email that i have recieved from yamaha, that new yami looks great and it will run great.


Not merc guy. Just not believing a video that shows obvious differences if you have a clue how a boat is trimmed.

next a wicked holeshot is usually accompanied by lousy top end. So unless they have different gears, IE a button to switch, there will be an issue with top end.

Its NOT a sports bike. the Boat weighs 1500+ pounds. Just because you have no clue how engines work there is no need to throw stones.

Walked into a powertech last week and they said the same thing. There had better be a gear change or VPP. Then you are going to have expensive breaks. Unless Yamaha has a huge warranty that gets people to switch then they are into the boat for $$$


All i care about is speed. Thats why I run 83+ in tournament trim. If I can dump the 10 props I have and get an end all be all motor I am ALL FOR IT.

I have just seen so many claims that cant be backed up and Guys like you buying motors that because a "TEST" said it was that fast thinks their boat is that fast..... in the meantime I blast past you at a mind numbing 73 mph.... :roll:

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby M. Warner » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:54 pm

Hey there John Brown, for one 73, my skeeter with a 225 yamaha does that, 73 mph, and you must not be fishing tourneys around here as a boater, because i have never heard or seen you on mead, besides the open, where you are a back seater, whatever,. All i wanted to say is that YOU know everything about everything, go build the motor for yamaha then, and stop bashing on them about the motor. And of course i am going to be happy for yamaha, there one of my SPONSORS. Doesnt mean i will buy a fourstroke, but with what i get from yamaha, your damn right, there the best motors I have ran.

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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby j10b » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:12 am

M. Warner wrote:Hey there John Brown, for one 73, my skeeter with a 225 yamaha does that, 73 mph, and you must not be fishing tourneys around here as a boater, because i have never heard or seen you on mead, besides the open, where you are a back seater, whatever,. All i wanted to say is that YOU know everything about everything, go build the motor for yamaha then, and stop bashing on them about the motor. And of course i am going to be happy for yamaha, there one of my SPONSORS. Doesnt mean i will buy a fourstroke, but with what i get from yamaha, your damn right, there the best motors I have ran.



you are so pathetic, No sponsor Bias here is there?. I dont fish out here. Im just here for 3 years then I get to go back east.

I was joking about my 73... as in I dont even have my foot to the floor when I go flying past you at 73. Its close to 5k RPM

Sounds like you have a case of " fly my sponsors flag so I can say I promoted the product"
PATHETIC

And you can't even get my name right. Its cute of you to try and bash my fishing results...... as if that has ANYTHING to do with fast boats. Which yeah my boat isnt here and includes 2 top 15s one is a win and a lousy finish this year. You should ask my pros their thoughts of me. You would be surprised. I have never heard of you either.

No I run a Bullet 21XRD which is NOT in Nevada. I run 83GPS in tournament trim, full gas, livewells, 2 people with all their gear. Only about 78-80ish in rough stuff. Its 21 feet and 10 inches.


Keep flying your flag for your sponsor though. I mean WHO CARES if its true or not, all you care about is "sales" Right?


FYI your skeeter doesnt hit 73 except on the interstate. Nice try though. :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just saying as a guy that has been close in 90 in my boat ( a 20XD with a 225) and I dont even consider myself a decent driver. I mean heck I am friends with the Bass class Speed record holder. So I do have a little of an idea of what boats look like when they are trimmed to run.
Thats the first thing everyone that actually drives a fast boat notices. The "NEW" motor's boat is trimmed much farther down. Also the Roster tail on the "stock" boat is way lower than the "NEW" motor. Just proves its NOT setup the same.

So WHY would Yammie not set both boats up the same? I mean trim position is EASY! Let me ask some of my buddies that are drivers for most of the big names and I will get back to you. I hope you are right but the video is showing a LOT of interesting things that point against it

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tunaman
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby tunaman » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:35 am

Guys - please let's keep it civil? Any questions, please be sure to familiarize yourselves with forum rule #6.

Roger

Rick G
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Rick G » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:27 am

I remember the day when the Mercury Supercharged Verado was going to "remake" the boat business. Keep your panties on. Couple things to consider, let them get the bugs out, and new technology is not cheap. Rick G.
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biteme
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby biteme » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:31 am

This thread is getting funny. Soon we'll find out what the real deal is, good or bad. I wish Yamaha luck or anyone else that tries to improve our power plants.

Andrew Jackson
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Andrew Jackson » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:35 am

Actually the real reason the other boat was slower is because it was in the slower lane. Might as well use that excuse too.

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MIKE TREMONT
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby MIKE TREMONT » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:53 pm

Some things never change around here, so I won't either.

Have any of you been in a boat pushed by the new series two HPDI? That motor screams and sounds like a well tuned indy engine to me. My cheeks were flapping and eyes tearing up from grinning ear to ear, and I wasn't even operating the boat!

While I commend the industry for for trying to keep our earth blue and meet CARB standards and all the other agencies that know better than us. Unless this is some new radical design of some type, I think we'll find it's the same old new product hype that some of us go gaga over when some thing "new" comes out.

I really hope they pull it off, but I'll wait and see.....
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Re: Yamaha's new outboard engine

Postby Team Davies » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:05 pm

I have two Skeeter ZX 225's one has a 200 HPDI the other has a 200 four stroke 08 model. The F-200 four stroke is only 4 mph slower and gets 40% better gas mileage and don't use any oil. At the WON fish off at mead we got the 08 model up to 64 mph with 50 gallons of gas full of tackle and 2 people. Burned $40.00 of gas on day one at $2.65 per gallon, we fished down in Greggs Basin.


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