WON BASS........MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE OUR BACKS?

[onplane]

Looks like someone got caught red handed and now the organization that caught him doesn't want to press charges if I'm understanding this correctly. Kinda makes me wonder about cheaters and how they are going to be handled at the local level. Maybe a slap on the wrist and a stern shame on you finger! Wow.....will the discourage or encourage future or current cheaters?

[Andy Lippert]

Looks like someone got caught red handed and now the organization that caught him doesn't want to press charges if I'm understanding this correctly. Kinda makes me wonder about cheaters and how they are going to be handled at the local level. Maybe a slap on the wrist and a stern shame on you finger! Wow.....will the discourage or encourage future or current cheaters?

I don't think that it is that they don't have our backs. I believe that whatever legal team/advice they had probably advised them that legally pursuing this douchebag would either be fruitless, or that the cost would be much more than the money they had available to do such a thing.

This entire event was a learning experience. This scam artist's name will forever carry an extremely negative connotation, and he is banished from the bass fishing community forever, among other negative occurances that resulted from his douchebaggery. I think that these consequences far surpass any sort of slap on the wrist that a court would've given him.

The reason that this will deter and not encourage cheaters (I think) in the future, is that we are all much smarter now than we were before this event took place. We all know how to better go about catching people who might cheat, and how to get the most "bang for our buck" as far as a prosecution is concerned after cheating has been discovered (i.e. allow suspected person to recieve check/prize, thinking everything is ok, which enables an ORG to slap a more serious charge of fraud on the individual[s]).

If anything, this has shaken our complacency, piqued our interest, and allowed us to be more vigilant in future events. New measures will be taken, and the cheaters will either get caught, or hopefully go away and chose another sport where they can scam their friends out of their hard earned money.

I still say, good job WON on publically outing this individual, and allowing us all to see the events as they took place, exactly.

Andy Lippert

[ketchenbass321]

Agreed. Pursuing criminal charges will probably cost them more (legal fees and such).

What do they need next? Scanners that detect metal in fish???

[bassaddicted]

Damn how many bass are going to be put to death because of this azz clown. I can see it already, that fish sure does have a big bell. Might have a weight in it, let's cut it open, oh **** thats a 2lb trout. No weight to be found. I'm sorry for the embarrassment Mr. Fishalot, but you can thank mr. fart for this. Make an example out of this clown

[green_monster]

Damn how many bass are going to be put to death because of this azz clown. I can see it already, that fish sure does have a big bell. Might have a weight in it, let's cut it open, oh **** thats a 2lb trout. No weight to be found. I'm sorry for the embarrassment Mr. Fishalot, but you can thank mr. fart for this

That's an interesting though.......

[Dan200xl]

Metal detectors won't work either... You gut hook a fish use side cutters to remove most of the hook... Then weigh it in and get DQ'ed?... WON Bass has to press charges or made damn sure local, state or federal officals press charges... Dan

[bryanmc]

Agreed. Pursuing criminal charges will probably cost them more (legal fees and such).

Last I checked, it doesn't cost the wronged party anything to pursue criminal charges. The police take the report, investigate and present the results to the District Attorney's office, or the US Attorney's office in federal matters who determine whether to prosecute or not.

My guess is that there were no laws violated that they had an interest in prosecuting.

[ash]

Agreed. Pursuing criminal charges will probably cost them more (legal fees and such).

Last I checked, it doesn't cost the wronged party anything to pursue criminal charges. The police take the report, investigate and present the results to the District Attorney's office, or the US Attorney's office in federal matters who determine whether to prosecute or not.

My guess is that there were no laws violated that they had an interest in prosecuting.

What Bryan said, The DA is the one to persue the conviction. WON will need to press charges and I am surprised that the state officials that witnessed the crime did not arrest or detain Hart.

[backlash]

LIKE EVERYONE ELSE........REHAB!!!

[keithcant]

CRIMINAL CHARGES do not cost a cent(to the parties involved). The 'victim' is not really the decider whether or not charges are filed--the prosecuting agency is.

First off, the U.S. Atty. will not touch this. It is far too 'small time'.Although in Lk Mead Rec Area- The criminal incident occurred in Nevada, so there is your venue.(multiple jurisdictions)

An investigating agency submits an investigation containing interviews of witnesses. This is reviewed by the prosecuting agency--which would be the District Atty. for Clark Co Nevada. They decide what if any charges are filed.

There is no charge called "CHEATING". There would be a Theft charge, but in this case 'Attempted Theft' since there was no actual taking of prize-money. The dollar amt. determines the choice of either petty theft or grand theft.

A persons criminal history and or $dollar amt. involved determines whether or not a Felony or Misdemeanor is filed.

(This is not a guess on my part.)On a busy day I file 10-15 new cases and regularly handle 20 Felonies a day. This is not a guess on my part. As for the Feds handling this--my info comes straight from the head (Western District) of the Atty General's office.

I would hope Nev. Fish & Game compiled reports of their activity or turned it over to other law enforcement----if not this will be left in a sad state of affairs and end up just a good story.

Wheras a Criminal Conviction says it all.

[Ringer]

Doesn't matter. He will never show up at another tourney for fear of getting beat to a pulp. No one would fish against the guy so all tournament will have to ban him. I use metal detectors all the time and there is a different signal for a small piece of steel vs a chunk of lead even on the cheaper ones. Just borrow one and try it.

[big_gorilla]

Keith is right cheating is not a crime.

If you guys read the whole story in the beginning the State and Wildlife officials said he didn't break any laws. The official they spoke to said cheating in a bass tournament is not against the law. So there is nothing they can do.

WON bass has done pretty much all they can. They have banned him for life and so have the other orgs. You will not be seeing him at any tournaments. Besides do you really think he is going to show up at a tournament?

[Mike Phua]

I'm having a hard time understanding something. Any Officers or lawyers on here. We keep hearing that "Cheating is not a crime" from all the reports on this matter. But aren't there special circumstances here. Wasn't the cheating involved here an attempt to steal money?..............um a whole lot of money? Scum bags go to jail all the time for attempted robbery, attempted car jacking etc. How is this any different? Am I the only one who views it this way? MP

[Rick G]

Now I know that next time I have the sledgehammer out trying to beat down the banks back wall and the drill ready to cut into the safe and I get caught I wont go to jail because I did not get the $. lol What a world we live in. Rick G.

[Big Rye]

I am no lawyer so maybe I don’t understand but it seems to me that Won Bass should have pressed charges and then let the DA throw it out. I don’t see how this will deter others from cheating. The article said he admitted to it?? Again I must be missing something because it seems to me there must be some law against attempted fraud. Sad day for fishing when you can get caught admit to it and walk away clean.

[buddy brown]

I assume it is like a shoplifter that does not walk out the door. So in tournament fishing the door only exists if a check is cashed. Remember the scene in full metal jacket, where they beat that fool with soap in the socks, I picture a scene where there is a hudd rof 16 in every sock

[Greg_Cornish]

Agreed. Pursuing criminal charges will probably cost them more (legal fees and such).

What do they need next? Scanners that detect metal in fish???

Would it be a criminal case or civil case? Criminal - if they pressed charges wouldn't cost anything but time. Civil, they have to look at investment/return unless the lawyer would work on contingency, which I doubt.

[tbob]

Guys

We do not have the option of pressing charges, etc. It is up to the state of federal goverment to prosecute a criminal case and it is the state versus whover is charged in a criminal case. All we can do is cooperate or not, but we have no say in whether a case is prosecuted. This is not different than any other criminal case.

The Nevada Wildlife department was involved with the initial sting operation in the matter, so obviously we have been more than willing to cooperate with them and any other legal authority involved. But we do not get to "press charges" as some are suggesting.

We were told at that time, and again since, to not discuss the case in public, other than to report the facts in our own publication. The more facts are discussed and things get report incorrectly, the more it would hurt any case they might choose to pursue, as an attorney would point to these contradictions when evidence is introduced.

I do think we did a good job in catching a cheater in the US OPEN, and in doing so in a way that mazimized the evidence we had against him and eliminated any controvery and debate in that regard. It obviously is a story getting a lot of press, and hopefully it helps to improve the sport in the long haul.

Our focus at the US OPEN though was not to catch a cheater , as we had hundreds of great and honest anglers battling it out in an amazing battle under the most brutal conditions you can imagine. It was an incredible tournament, a unforgetable Tribute to the Legends dinner program, following a great Icast show. That is what we would like for peope to remember about this years US OPEN, and many will for sure.

[Robert F]

Great explanation Bob. The ones that need the heat are the F&G officials. If they choose to walk away from this incident you can believe there will be a big backlash from the tournament circles. They are on us like crazy to protect their resource when we fish on their water. Now it is their turn to prove they are serious about prosecutiing persons that have admitted to breaking the law and tried to steal from the tournament purse.

[tbob]

The Nevada wildlife department helped us out with this and did everything they could do. They are to be commended. The evidence against Mike Hart is very well documented and steps were taken with their help and oversight to get the right person and to leave little doubt about what happened.

[TEAMDEADMONEY]

Bob... even though no charges will be filed....Is WON still gonna ban him for life??? Id hope so..

Pete

[brambo0311]

What this town needs is a hanging. I don't feel comfortable fishing a event for a tournament organization that won't throw out a little money to prosecute a criminal. Honestly do you think wal-mart makes money when they prosecute a shop lifter? The reason theft isn't out of control is because of fear of jail time. And what this guy did is on a way larger scale and has probably happend for years. I have a idea next tournament whoever can stuff the most junk in your bass wins. Half announce bonus
To most creative I.e. A starting battery

[RMANZO]

won bass did a great job of "catching" a cheater....now the next org that "catches" one, can go ahead and play out the awards, and let the cheater accept a check..once $$$ is accepted,(since cheating isnt a crime) then the crime has been committed....that would have been great if thats the way it played out w/hart..give him his $$$$, and announce to him, in front of all too see, "SIKE",,, you get no $$$, u'r a cheater that would have been classic

[tbob]

Pete

We would not allow someone who attempted to cheat in this manner to fish any of our future events. This was obviously done with advance planning and with the intent to cheat to win money, and with it comes the maximum penalty that WON BASS can hand out, which is a ban from fishing our events.

Bob

[TEAMDEADMONEY]

Fair enough Bob... I understand the circumstances as youve explained them...
Hopefully you are on the phone to the owner of ABA, ANGLERS CHOICE, NBW, BASS, FLW and whoever else telling them of the situation first hand so that they will also Ban his butt for life as well....
We can and have racked our brains over the possibility of this happening in the past with him, but we cant prove anything, its all just justfied speculation but we need to just move forward and see to it that he never fishes another bass tournament again..

Pete

[Garrettt]

I think something big is missing here, only time will tell. It seems so cut and dry from the outside.

[Lugnut]

It doesn't suprise me at all. I don't think you can blame WON, even though it seems to be an open and shut case. For example - I deal with thefts and property damage at our three facilities on a weekly basis. A couple weeks ago I show up at 3am after the alarm sounds. A glass door is broken out, there are shoes and a rake on the roof and numerous pieces of trash thrown outside the dumpster. The police have detained a guy that was there when they responded. He admits to throwing the trash all over and the crap on the roof, but not the rock through the window. They have to cut him loose, they tell me they are 100% sure this scum bag did it, but since there are no witnesses the DA will not file. Yes he may have admitted to a tournament official, and it looks like he was caught redhanded. In reallity if it went to court all he has to do is say not guilty and they can not prove anything.

[Johnny Bass]

Tbob , it's all clear now, thanks for taking the time to explain the process and offer up the straight scoop.

[mark poulson]

I guess the bottom line is that WON is in the business of putting on tournaments, in this case the U.S. Open, and they do that really well.
They are not in the business of setting up stings and catching cheaters in a way that guarantees successful prosecution.
And they shouldn't be.
That is the job of law enforcement.
The cheater was caught and exposed publically, and, for someone who obviously wants public acclaim, that is a pretty stiff penalty. He can never fish in SoCal again without being exposed and ridiculed, and rightly so.
I'm sure WON, and all the other organizations, will learn from this experience.
I'm also sure talks are going on right now about how to make sure that, if someone is caught in the future, there will be an easier case to make, so law enforcement will choose to go forward with prosecution.
I don't think, though, that WON is contacting other orgs, at least not officially, and warning them about this guy, nor should they.
There are all kinds of liability issues at play, and collusion and conspiracy could probably be charged if they did. Legally, he hasn't been convicted of any crime.
Unless he is convicted of a crime, all WON can do is report the facts as they know them publically.
It's up to all the other organizations to pay attention, and decide for themselves how to deal with him.

[SPIKE]

This B.S. can go on forever. The bottom line is any organization that would let (Hart) fish is just as bad as Hart. They would in a since be cheating you for their share of the pot. Anyone banded from any place in the nation should be on a blackball list and never allowed to compete any where.

[DanIsaac]

Not too surprising, and I'll stick my neck out and make a prediction right now, and pray I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

This individual will be back fishing tournaments to some degree, somewhere within the next 5 years.

Dan

[tbob]

Mark

I appreciate the nice comments, but I don't think I have been clear on some points so let me try once more.

The WON BASS tournament staff and the Nevada Wildlife department did an exceptional job of gathering the evidence that we have in this cheating incident. There is more than enough proof for anyone to come to a conclusion as to what happened. Our tournament officials disqualified Mike Hart from the tournament immediately when this happened, and almsot immediately after banned him from future events.

But at some point the state has to decide whether or not they want to put on a trial for cheating at a sporting event where money was involved. There is plenty of evidence to support a case in my opinion, but it is not our decision to make. The Nevada Department of Wildlife and WON BASS did a great job, and I am sure the district attorney will also do what he thinks is in the best interest of the people of the state of Nevada.

Mike Hart is not getting away with anything though. He was caught cheating at the US OPEN and he is now banned from fishing our events and most likely every other organizations events. He was looked at with great admiration by many of us due to his accomplishments as a bass fisherman just a few weeks back, and now he is being condemned by almost every bass fisherman out there for his actions. It's a sad deal, but I am nevertheless very glad that we stopped someone from cheating and getting away with it at one of our events. While we hope this never happens again, we will continue to do things that eliminate cheating or the perception that cheating could occur at our events. There is a lot of speculation out there now and it is not good for the sport of bass fishing in our opinion. The fishermen deserve to feel that they all have an equal chance to win, and that cheaters will be caught and dealt with and that is what happened in this case.

There couldn't be a better case or more evidence, or could we have done things any better in my opinion. And don't think because nothing has happened yet that the DA isn't interested, as my guess is they haven't even seen the case or charges at this point.

[mark poulson]

tbob,
Did the DA give you any idea of when they'll decide whether or not to file charges?
It would be good to end all the speculation, and get the ball rolling, if that's what they're going to do.

[Oldschool]

Hart carefully planned and executed his plan to add 18 oz of lead weight to his bass during the US Open event, violating the tournament rules and was DQ'd. The question is; did Hart violate any criminal law, local or state ordinance, to be charged with crime, without money being exchanged ?
It's amazing the coverage Hart's cheating has generated and that alone should prevent anyone else trying to cheat at a bass tournament.
Tom

[DL]

Hart carefully planned and executed his plan to add 18 oz of lead weight to his bass during the US Open event, violating the tournament rules and was DQ'd. The question is; did Hart violate any criminal law, local or state ordinance, to be charged with crime, without money being exchanged ?
It's amazing the coverage Hart's cheating has generated and that alone should prevent anyone else trying to cheat at a bass tournament.
Tom

As this whole thing unfolded, I expected it to be a localized story. Localized as in the west coast and not really make it to mainstream media. Yes, we all know who the guy is because we are all involved in one way or another in this sport. I really did not think it would go much further than that. I could not have been more wrong. The way Mike has been crucified should be enough to deter the next guy. And to have his face plastered across Yahoo as a cheater, was probably the furthest thing from his mind.

Let the backlash and pure unadulterated hatred for this guy serve as a notice to anyone that dares mess with the integrity of competetive fishing, that this will not be tolerated or swept under the rug...

[mark poulson]

DL said, "Let the backlash and pure unadulterated hatred for this guy serve as a notice to anyone that dares mess with the integrity of competetive fishing, that this will not be tolerated or swept under the rug..."
_________________
Maybe that's why AC hired Brian, because he has no rug to sweep anything under.....

[tbob]

It was surreal to find that we had someone cheating on day 2 and to not know for sure exactly who it was, then to investigate it and come up with a list of poeple who may have done it and with a plan to catch the person if he tried to do it again. Then to have 5 fish presented to the scales that all had weights with hooks in them on day 3 by one of our suspects.

I was on a vacation on a houseboat with my family on Lake Mead at the time, only a few miles away this day, and I was somewhat aware of it all happening and the plan at the time.

I was very relieved and excited to hear we had caiught the person who most likely was the same person who had cheated on day two. Imagine for a minute knowing that someone had cheated on day two at our US OPEN tournament and knowing he might get away with it. It's hard to even explain how much the staff and Nevada Wildlife wanted this plan to work, and so as this all unfolded it was unreal.

We didn't expect that the story would become a big deal, or has that been our intent throughout this process and since. It is our feeling that we had a great US OPEN and the focus should be more on that and not on a cheater who was not successful. When put in that context this doesn't seem to be the huge national story it has become.