Dragging VS Trolling in a tourny..

cib11b · Post by **cib11b** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:54 am

Is draggin a jig or some plastic considered to be trolling in a tournament and is it prohibited? I don't fish tourny's but I am just confused. I know of people who do it but not sure if it is allowed?

jazzwannabe · Post by **jazzwannabe** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:13 am

As I understand it, trolling is defined by using the big motor, or a kicker. Dragging while using the electric trolling motor is not.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:22 am

I think you have to be holding the rod in your hands, and "manipulating" it, when you're moving the boat/bait with the TM, as opposed to putting it in a rod holder and just trolling with the big motor.
It seems like it could be a matter of interpretation by the TD, and maybe covered in his/her prelaunch meeting.

ASD · Post by **ASD** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:25 am

Trolling is defined as using a motor to pull a bait through the water

drew · Post by **drew** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:39 am

ASD wrote:Trolling is defined as using a motor to pull a bait through the water

Without imparting an action to the bait.

If your holding the rod, reeling, shaking or hoping etc its not trolling.

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:51 am

You are not to let more line out either to lengthen a cast.
Many do this when dragging, it's hard not too on a windy day to stay on the bottom.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:55 am

Here we go again...

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:17 pm

Marc wrote:Here we go again...

Your right. This question has been asked times before.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:47 pm

drew wrote:
ASD wrote:Trolling is defined as using a motor to pull a bait through the water
Without imparting an action to the bait.

If your holding the rod, reeling, shaking or hoping etc its not trolling.

I know I'll hate myself for this.... and as someone said, here we go again...

So, Drew... it's ok to use the big motor to "drag" the bait as long as you impart action? Surely, it can't matter if it's an electric motor, gas motor, steam motor or warp drive as long as you're imparting action.

You know, what back when I was a kid we used to let line out behind the boat and drive around the lake with the outboard. We always held the rod and occasionally jerked or twitched the lure. We always said we were trolling, guess we were dragging huh?

ScottyJ · Post by **ScottyJ** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:31 pm

How about if a fish hits my spook and gets caught in the lip then as I'm fighting it the hook comes out and they are all stuck to the outside of the fish? It started off in the fishes mouuth though?

I wonder what Hippies thoughts are on the subject?

cib11b · Post by **cib11b** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:37 pm

So no one knows the real answer.

ScottyJ · Post by **ScottyJ** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:36 pm

This is the definition of trolling on wikipedia...very interesting...

Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water. This may be behind a moving boat, or by slowly winding the line in when fishing from a static position, or even sweeping the line from side-to-side, e.g. when fishing from a jetty. Trolling is used to catch pelagic fish such as salmon, mackerel and kingfish....
...Trolling from a moving boat involves moving quite slowly through the water. This can be accomplished with the use of a special trolling motor.

So I guess technically we should all be DQ'd from tournaments

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:00 am

Here's Websters definition...

intransitive verb
1
: to move around : ramble
2
a : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving
boat

JohnnyG1 · Post by **JohnnyG1** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:43 am

Well I guess we all are DQ'd

Robert F · Post by **Robert F** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:03 am

ScottyJ wrote:This is the definition of trolling on wikipedia...very interesting...

Trolling is used to catch pelagic fish such as salmon, mackerel and kingfish....So I guess technically we should all be DQ'd from tournaments

Unless you are fishing for pelagics like Salmon, Mackeral or Kingfish, I would say the answer is no.

2ndsuks · Post by **2ndsuks** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:20 am

If you decide to actually fish in a tournament, go ask the tournament director.

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:52 am

In a tournament you can't fish with the big motor running.

So what your saying is you can't fish behind the boat if the trolling motor is running?

bryanmc wrote:
I know I'll hate myself for this.... and as someone said, here we go again...

So, Drew... it's ok to use the big motor to "drag" the bait as long as you impart action? Surely, it can't matter if it's an electric motor, gas motor, steam motor or warp drive as long as you're imparting action.

You know, what back when I was a kid we used to let line out behind the boat and drive around the lake with the outboard. We always held the rod and occasionally jerked or twitched the lure. We always said we were trolling, guess we were dragging huh?

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:16 am

drew wrote:In a tournament you can't fish with the big motor running.

Can't say I've ever seen that rule. Of course, I've never looked for it either. Where did you see it?

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:27 am

Most org.'s have rules that you must be seated with a life vest and lanyard attached while the big engine is running. I have never seen anyone fishing with the big motor running I'm sure its a rule.

bryanmc wrote:
drew wrote:In a tournament you can't fish with the big motor running.
Can't say I've ever seen that rule. Of course, I've never looked for it either. Where did you see it?

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:37 am

The old term for dragging is strolling; using a trolling motor to move a lure. Strolling, trolling or controlled drifting using the boat to move the lure is not allowed during a bass tournament. The original rules you must cast and retrieve the lure using rod and reel.
Today you see a lot of back seaters dragging a worm behind the boat, so the rules must have changed.
Tom

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:55 am

drew wrote:Most org.'s have rules that you must be seated with a life vest and lanyard attached while the big engine is running. I have never seen anyone fishing with the big motor running I'm sure its a rule.

Well... I took a look at AC, WON and ABA and there is no mention of "sitting", merely that the kill switch must be attached to the driver. Maybe it's a rule in some other org, but not the three that immediately came to mind. I would have thought one of them would have fallen into the group of "most".

Personally I've seen guys fishing in the wind after the TM broke or gave out with the big motor running. As long as the kill switch is attached (one org does limit the lanyard length to 48 inches though) it would seem they're ok, as long as they aren't trolling.

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:30 am

Is there anyway to enforce or prove that an angler is trolling with the trolling motor? If the angler stops reeling for 1sec is that trolling? I would hate to be the TD that has to handle that complaint.

drew · Post by **drew** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:46 am

FLW states

"9. Boat operation
Pros will fish from the front deck of the boat only. Co-anglers will fish from the back deck of the boat only. "

I believe CA has a law about standing while driving as well. We need more regulation. The more rules and DQ's the better. Its the new way to win.

Good one Tom. I like the controlled drift concept. Which is even more of a joke then trolling.

Its a waste of time to argue this point. Because we know how it goes down and there is no way to enforce it.

Oldschool wrote:The old term for dragging is strolling; using a trolling motor to move a lure. Strolling, trolling or controlled drifting using the boat to move the lure is not allowed during a bass tournament.
Tom

bryanmc wrote:
drew wrote:Most org.'s have rules that you must be seated with a life vest and lanyard attached while the big engine is running. I have never seen anyone fishing with the big motor running I'm sure its a rule.
Well... I took a look at AC, WON and ABA and there is no mention of "sitting", merely that the kill switch must be attached to the driver. Maybe it's a rule in some other org, but not the three that immediately came to mind. I would have thought one of them would have fallen into the group of "most".

Personally I've seen guys fishing in the wind after the TM broke or gave out with the big motor running. As long as the kill switch is attached (one org does limit the lanyard length to 48 inches though) it would seem they're ok, as long as they aren't trolling.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am

drew wrote:FLW states

"9. Boat operation
Pros will fish from the front deck of the boat only. Co-anglers will fish from the back deck of the boat only. "

And where is the part about the motor running? Sorry, don't see it there.

I think it's pretty obvious when someone makes one cast and fishes all the way around a point or an island, or the boat is moving into the wind with lines strung out behind what's going on.

Sadly with today's state of affairs, it shouldn't be about catching someone, it should be about knowing you can't do it and not doing it.
Remember, we all knew it was wrong to stuff sinkers in bass..... Those that chose to break the rules will, the rest of us will just fish...

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:51 am

I recall a mother & son team that won a lot of tournaments strolling, that could be where the term came from. The mom was back seating and would make a cast every once in awhile or after catching a bass. Lots of compliants, don't remember any DQ's.
Tom

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:58 am

I knew it, your all a bunch of thieving trollers ban'em for life I say!

gofish42189 · Post by **gofish42189** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:05 pm

oldschool, are you talking about Aaron Martens and his mom?

bassindon69 · Post by **bassindon69** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:48 pm

Funny that when someone wins in some way different a rule comes along to stop it

Dee used super long rods to get behind or in the thick cover.
New rule to stop it - no rods over 8'
Why?

I heard a story of some guys at clear lake Letting line out while using the trolling motor to make super long casts and won some cash.
New rule to stop it- Can't use the trolling motor to lengthen a cast. ( I thought this was being creative)

I don't see what's wrong with dragging
But hey it must be wrong because someone won doing so.

What else has changed because somebody won doing it?

How did you win last? We should make a new rule to stop it HAHA!

My wife always drags behind the boat. Good thing we don't do tourneys

bassrman · Post by **bassrman** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:21 pm

OMG!.....if you dont know how its done by now! "hang it up"! ,you remind me of Rich Tauber on Ultimate match Fishing ! Ha!......

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:28 pm

Dee's rods were 14' long and didn't have a reel. The 8' rod rule also included a reel. The rule didn't stop Dee, he made the adjustments and continued winning.
Live bait and trolling were in the early bass tournamnet rules since the late 60's. Knowone is saying trolling isn't effective, it wasn't and still isn't allowed for tournaments. It should be about ethics and following the rules, not about how to find ways to get around them.
If todays contestants and the TD's don't care if strolling or dragging is OK, then rewrite the rules to clarify what is allowed and what isn't, should be simple.
Might add using any legal angling method is OK, why restrict trolling or live bait fishing? both are legal angling methods.
Tom

kopper_bass · Post by **kopper_bass** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:46 pm

bryan,
The organization of Common Sense says its a rule -

Also, the Ca Bass Fed has this rule.

Kopper

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:17 pm

kopper_bass wrote:bryan,
Also, the Ca Bass Fed has this rule.
Kopper

This rule???

Safe boat conduct must be observed at all times by tournament competitors. During the official practice and the tournament, each competitor is required to wear a Coast Guard approved chest-type life preserver. This preserver must be worn anytime the combustion engine is operating. This preserver must be strapped, snapped and zippered securely, and seated in the proper seats and maintained in that condition until the competitor reaches his fishing location and the combustion engine is shut off.

Oh yeah, that's pretty well written. LOL... The "preserver" must be seated!!! I took that straight off their website.

OK... CBF sorta has a rule. Common sense rule? Not sure, as I said before, on numerous occasions I've seen the driver seated and hooked up with the big motor idling while the partner was on the bow throwing a swimbait on a point when the TM was not working.

Just as an aside, and back to the original thread, how does it make a difference if you're using the TM to move the bait vs the big motor. Mechanical propulsion is mechanical propulsion.

Team Fugowee · Post by **Team Fugowee** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:21 pm

If your motor is being used. Once the fishing lines angle is at 45 degrees or more behind the boat (direction of travel being the front), your trolling.

bassrman · Post by **bassrman** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:12 pm

right! let me splain it to ju guys! big motor running do not fish ,always have pfd/kill switch on! trolling motor! if you you use trolling motor to drag,move,troll,your lure! td's call it propell the lure!,you must impart action with the lure!,hop,shake,pop,rip,etc. this has been a controversy sinse the beginning of tourny fishing, to really enforce this rule, you need a marshall/vto in every boat! " not gonna happen....

Flippinjigs · Post by **Flippinjigs** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:53 pm

This is something that has a long history of debate. It's been called strolling, trolling, dragging and might have a few other names. Hard to define. An article was even written in an early 1980's copy of BassMaster Magizine on this subject. They don't call that electric motor on the front of your boat a trolling motor for nothing. Who Cares as long as the fish takes your offering voluntary by the mouth.

Set the hook
&
Good Fishin

longshot · Post by **longshot** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:50 am

I think there is a huge difference between trolling and "dragging" I do not understand some of the rules and why they even exist. If everyone is allowed to do it then there is no advantage. Live bait you have a good chance of gut hooking throw that out ok fair enough BUT during certain times of the year dragging is a great way to search for fish and keeps your presentation correct.
Less rules makes it easier to enforce the other rules. I really feel that if its ok by dfg and isnt using REAL bait then we should all be allowed to do it.
LS

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:02 am

My club allowed "dragging".

Funny thing happened, keyed in on a bite in deep creek channels and thought spinnerbait. My draw partner had a splitshot rig on, I tied a one oz Proline spinnerbait on there and chunked it out behind the boat.

He exclaimed, "Hey man, you're TROLLING!"

"So are you..."

"I am dragging a worm, you've got that blade on there spinning!"

"You don't think worms have action?"

It was funny, he was equating trolling with what type of bait was used. He settled down after thinking about it.

Dragging is trolling.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:16 am

Andy Giannini wrote: Dragging is trolling.

And that, in three words, says it all.

Mark Hiser · Post by **Mark Hiser** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:01 pm

Well, just for ****'s and giggles....... Bryanmc, is it fair to say then that any movement or action imparted to the bait must come from the fisherperson through movement from the rod, reel or both?

Mark Hiser

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:43 pm

Why ask me? You've been around long enough to know the answer

My opinion is merely that, my opinion.

Mark Hiser · Post by **Mark Hiser** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:49 pm

Aw, geez bryan, cause I know you....... and you stepped around the question. You took the time to look it up in websters and post your findings.

I just think some things should be left alone....... if we are going to talk in absolutes then... anyone who ever made a cast and had the wind catch the line and move the bait was trolling, any time the boat caused the bait to move whether by wind, wave or induced power was trolling. So if at any time these things occured in a tournament who's rules prohibit trolling, then those involved were cheating, and should be removed from the event...... probably also shot and left to feed the crawdads

It just seems that there are some real cheaters being caught recently, and they were doing far more than draggin a jig or worm around. For me, those folks are far more worth worrying about, if one really thinks they should worry.

I took care of any issues on my boat.... I installed a "Positioning" motor on the bow. No worries for me

Mark Hiser

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:17 am

I just like to hear all the opinions Mark.

So, if it's ok to cast your bait and use the TM to move it around the point, why not the big motor then? Some folks go so far as to say that if you have a worm or jig on the line it's dragging, but if it's a swimbait or rip bait it's trolling. Still there are folks that refine it so much as to say if you're not shaking, jerking or in some other way imparting action with the rod you're trolling.

My opinion (and merely my opinion) is that if you are deliberately using the tm or other motor to move the bait, it's trolling. The whole problem is that the organizations made a "no trolling" rule but didn't define what trolling is.

Maybe the advisory committees can come up with a definition that could be included in the rules.

ash · Post by **ash** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:39 am

so if I am ever so slowly reeling in line as I am dragging then I am no longer trolling? How about when I open the bail to allow more line out to stay in the zone a little longer then continue to manuver the bait through the area?

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:25 am

Well ash, my opinion only (because until the tournament orgs define what their rule means it doesn't matter).

You make a cast and use the tm to "drag" the bait 50 yards, even if you "turn the reel handle slowly" I would say it's trolling.

As for the open bail scenario, if you're not moving the bait with the motor, I wouldn't consider it trolling. Again, only my opinion. This can be "what iff'd" forever. I think AC (or maybe it's ABA) has a rule about using the tm to lengthen a cast. I couldn't find it again, but if I remember correctly, it didn't specify beginning of the cast or end of the cast, so I would imagine either would be prohibited.

The thing that I think defines the act is if you use the motor to move the bait.

ash · Post by **ash** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:41 am

I agree with you this can and is what iffd forever. I would say 95% of tournament anglers have dragged a bait at one point in thier tournament career, if not more. Even if you are hoppin and poppin that jig or just on a wind drift or a controlled drift with the TM we call it strollin or draggin etc...

The funny part is we all know what trolling looks like and when using hoochies or even trolling a rattle trap or broken back for stripers I am "imparting action" occassionaly by ripping the rod. This is one of those areas where one can nitpick it and find holes in

cib11b · Post by **cib11b** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:21 am

I didn't think it was this big of a topic.. I guess as long as I move the bait with my actions I am ok sounds like a plan!

Andy Giannini · Post by **Andy Giannini** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:30 pm

Here is the deal, ask if you can drag, stroll, whatever from the TD.

And whatever he says, do that. (Or don't do it if its not allowed.)

If its allowed, and you are not doing it, you should give it a shot.

At times, dragging absolutely kicks butt ,and can be very efficient. So if the goal is to win, you should master some form of it if it is allowed.

I am one heck of a good dragger, but I still think its trolling by another name.

Respectfully,

A.G.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:05 pm

I don't remember seeing anything against down-riggers. Dragging with a down-rigger could be the hot setup for suspended fish! Or maybe get an outrigger for when they're tight to the bank so you can drag for them...