TOC prize...Boat or Cash? Which would you prefer?

duaneg4 · Post by **duaneg4** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:51 pm

A question with many possible answers and much to consider.

Taxes...based on MSRP of boat or cash won?

Partners...How do you split a boat evenly? Chainsaw?

I'm all for cash, especially with this economy. Besides, the market is flooded with boats, and I doubt that you could split a boat as quickly as you could cash.

Any opinions?

LOL

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:27 pm

That's a tough call... Some times, the tourney org can get a boat manufacturer to give them a great deal on a boat, and that means they get more bang for the buck. So they get to give away a $24,000.00 boat, where if they only gave cash, they could only deliver a $10,000.00 1st prize (which the winning angler(s) would still pay taxes on). Each situation is unique and that should be left to the org to decide as their goal should be to deliver the best prize possible.

For me, I'm good either way, it's a gift horse and I'm not about to look it in the mouth. Getting to a TOC is simply a big bonus and I will give it my all, but in the end it's all about fun. Boats can be sold quickly (at a loss) and the money (and taxes) can be split if need be.

Be careful what you wish for, because this economy is putting a serious hurt on boat manufacturers, and you might see the effect it has reflected in your TOC payout. I'm happy there are still TOCs to fish.

Leon Pugh · Post by **Leon Pugh** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:13 am

Great attitude Nipples +1

DanWarme · Post by **DanWarme** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:34 pm

Nips is right on.
Depends on who's perspective you want.
Tourney orgs give the boats because they can advertise a $25K grand prize for example, and it may cost them $15K or less to aquire. It is essentially buy it wholesale, give it away at retail.
You benefit because bigger prizes attract bigger fields of competitors, leading to bigger and deeper payouts and our sport grows. And since the lower prizes (2nd through...?) are generally cash, that means more money in your pocket!

Only one team or guy is gonna take 1st place for any tourney.
You can hem and haw about which puts more cash into your pocket as the winner of a boat or cash,
(which all but one of the competitors won't be)
Or you can look at what stands to give you the most bang for your buck the higher percentage of the time?

Sure if tourney orgs could offer $25K in cash or $25K as a boat, take the cash. then buy the boat you want or split the cash evenly with your partner. No muss, no fuss.
But most orgs, can't afford to do that. It would be The boat, or a lot less as a cash prize. The bigger prize in the long run, helps spread the wealth by bringing more dollars and hopefully, more competitors, into the sport.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:40 pm

This is a topic that always blows my mind as to why there is any confusion at all. Lets look at the 2 oldest org's here in the west, ABA and WON BASS. They are supported by Ranger and Tracker/Nitro respectivly. At the WON TOC, you can win a Nitro Z-7 that is sold at retail for 24K with shipping and prep here in the West with a 150 Optimax. So now you have this cert and are in competition for a buyer with the dealers and BPS. The first option should be ask your dealer if they want to buy it. If not, order the boat and park it in your driveway. Remember, when you started the TOC you had NOTHING but hope. Get the most you can! There is no reason to give it away for 15-17K. Your competition sells them all year long for 24. But if you have a brand new boat sitting in your driveway, you will get more than you would have recieved for a cert. The Rangers they give away at the ABA TOC's are Z118's with 175 Optis. That is a 36K minimum retail boat. Let your dealer order it for you, have it in his showroom to sell and at least get the wholesale price, and it a good deal for the dealer because he is not paying any interest on that boat. The biggest thing I see with TOC winners is impatience. Come on, you are a fisherman, patience is in your blood. Wait and get the most, you won and you deserve it!. Here is the classic example of TOC winners ..........call it what you want, but I call it wasting money. Last years NBW TOC at Havasu, they offered 15K or a new 18' Skeeter with a Yamaha 150HPDI that is at the LEAST a 28K boat. Lets do the math together folks.

Winners take 15K, thats 7500 each.
Less taxes, 35% lets say [$2625] and they each clear $4875.

Boat sells for 28K, thats 14K each
Less taxes [$4900.00] and they EACH CLEAR $9200.00!
They FARMED $4325.00 EACH!
IMPATIENCE at work. They did not want the hassle of getting the boat. Remember, you had nothing when the event started, and you need to keep that focus. You might never win again...... Get the most. Rick G.

littlebailey · Post by **littlebailey** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:48 pm

great post Rick. one correction. i got a 1099 for 29,500 for my z7 i won. ouch! i didnt get any where near that.

Ron T. · Post by **Ron T.** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:09 pm

Did you pay taxes on the 29,500.00 or on what you sold it for. Should be only for what you sold it for , afterall thats the true value right ? Its only worth what the market will bring and should only pay taxes on what you profit. Just my .02.

bryanmc · Post by **bryanmc** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:16 pm

Ron T. wrote:Did you pay taxes on the 29,500.00 or on what you sold it for. Should be only for what you sold it for , afterall thats the true value right ? Its only worth what the market will bring and should only pay taxes on what you profit. Just my .02.

The 29,500 is considered income. The difference between that and what you sold it for is a business loss if your tax person is worth a damn. It all comes out in the wash.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:19 pm

You only pay taxes on what you recieve at the TIME of sale. That is why you need to have upfront and honest records with bill of sales when you sell it. That way when your accountant puts the correct amount on your return you have the ammo if you get questioned. Rick G.

tbob · Post by **tbob** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:07 pm

I would like to make one thing very clear as I think it is a point where anglers are often confused and sometimes mislead by tournament organizations and their paybacks.

At WON BASS it is not a choice between a boat and the cash, as we have always paid back BOTH THE BOAT AND THE CASH. When we say we have a certain percentage payback that refers only to the cash paid back on site and in some instances cash held in reserve but also paid back at the TOC events. The boat and motor is something provided by our sponsors to our anglers and is a part of their sponsorship agreement with WON BASS.

The boat and motor is always in addition to the cash at WON BASS, and it is not a case of us using the cash to buy a boat from Nitro, an outboard from Mercury, OR eloectronic from Lowrance, etc. At out Tri State Championships for our teams, and at out Western Classic for the pros we will be awarding both the boats and the money in the reserve reserve fund. I think as Rick stated the same holds true at some other organizations, but as i understand it not at all. At the US OPEN the boat awarded is also in addition to the cash payback amounts. We do not even include the boat packages in our payback percentages. I guess we probably should, but we just never have done it that way.