Anyway I can help.......

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Kelly Ripa
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Anyway I can help.......

Post by Kelly Ripa »

Somebody from NorCal read some of my recent trips out on Casitas lake with a spoon and wanted some help. I wrote him an e-mail and figured that since he didn't know much about the subject and had little or no experience I might share some of my thoughts to him with the rest of you. Mind you this how I do it and in not to be taken as any sort of Gospel. If you agree or disagree jump on it and lets spread some tips around on this thread. This is what works for me and you will have to practice/tweek it to make it work for you. Enjoy.

I personally think the spoon is very underrated and very few know how to fish them or have spent the time to learn all they can do. My rule of thumb is to use a ¾ oz spoon from twenty to 55 feet and a 1 oz spoon deeper than that. You get less feed back from the lighter weight of the spoon so the 1 oz size will help you out. I have caught bass and successfully released them from as deep as 110 feet here at lake Casitas. That is not the norm but I just had to know one day if the marks on my meter were bass. I am currently using 10 pound maxima ( I use nothing lighter and have a big bulk spool of it and use nothing over 12# either) a short pistol grip med heavy Loomis (5 ½ foot) and the old school green curado sf. The reel I set up pretty freely so as to allow the bait to free fall and it's maximum speed but not so free that when the spoon touches down it over spins to the point of a backlash. I frequently will just make a long cast and wind it back to the boat to straighten out any problems that are caused from the act of fishing with the spoon. My take on how to work the spoons is to let the spoon drop as freely as possible on the initial drop allowing it to get all the way to the bottom. I put the reel in gear and try to keep my rod tip about a foot from the waters surface as I rip and drop the spoon back down to make contact with the bottom again. I feel most folks overwork the spoon by ripping it to high with a longer rod so if you use a longer rod try to remember this. Typically I rip about 3 feet and let the spoon fall back on a taunt line. That means I am following the spoon down at it's fall rate. You will note that you are catching the treble on your line and fouling the rig up and this is caused by dropping your rod tip faster than the spoon is falling. It is very rare to have the fish bite on the way up but are most likely 99% of the time to bite on the fall. If my spoon stops before it gets to the bottom even if it doesn't feel like a bite I will reel down and set the hook. 99% percent of the things you feel on the rip up are either the structure you are fishing or some stray fishing line. You are forgiven for swinging on the fishing line as it does feel like a fish. I read the other posts from the angler's who responded to your question and here are My choices for spoons. I use a ¾ oz spoon for almost everything. A hammered chrome spoon will out fish anything painted. However as you are fishing a lake that has Kokanne in it a morning dawn bait Duh spoon might do okay but the majority of these fish have been feeding on shad that are dying from various reasons and when the water is colder they get used to eating dying fluttering down shad. A ¾ oz chrome Hopkins shorty was what I used for the first 15 years and still is/was the best spoon around until I found the BPS ( bass pro shop ) tungsten spoons. I feel the compact size allows me to match the hatch better and nothing falls as fast through the water as tungsten....Maybe spent uranium or solid gold but tungsten is cheaper and very dense and better by far than stainless steel. When you put the Hopkins next to the BPS tungsten you will see the big difference in size. I always change out the stock hooks and I now use a #4 Gamagatsu red hook on all of my spoons. I have never found a feather on the hook to make a difference But if you need color or flash it can help. On lakes that have smallmouth you will really mess them up good with the red hook. I resharpen them often with a stone I keep in my breast pocket right next to a bendz mender needle I use for fizzing some fish. I have a plug knocker for getting some baits out of their circumstances but you will find with patience and a little light jiggling most baits will come free of their own accord. Never use a snap swivel or any swivel in conjunction with your rig as it flat kills the action. Use the stock split ring to tie to. Do I get line twist... Hell yes..but I use it to my advantage. A major portion of spoon fish that I catch is because I have stopped the ripping action and just hold the bait a foot or so off the bottom. The line twist has your bait turn flat to edge on down there so it's like it's a blinking light...on,off,on. The just clomp down and swim away. When in heavy cover where I am worried a bit more about getting that spoon back out again I will rip slower until I feel comfortable that I am in the structure not stuck in the structure and I employ the stop and hover technique more. When you hook up it's easier to get that spoon(and fish) back out of the jungle. These are basics for the vertical presentation but I do fish them differently according to what the fish are doing and water temps and fish species. IF I am going to be casting the spoon I don't just huck that bait out and retrieve it. I make my casts perpendicular to the shore so that I don't get stuck on every rock outcropping or branch or elevation change on the way back. Spooning up hill would be the equivalent so I will cast towards the bank into say 10 feet of water and let the bait fall to the bottom on a taunt line and then begin ripping and dropping the bait down the slope until I get either to the bottom or deeper than I intend to fish. A small rip off of a vertical wall equals a long drop closer to the cover/structure. It will surprise you how little you get hung up by fishing this way and if you do get hung up just use the trolling motor to get over the top or on the other side of whatever you in to jiggle the bait out. A GREAT spoon for this stair stepping action is the lowly Kastmaster 5/16oz., 3/8oz., 1/2oz. are all sizes I use and again in chrome or chrome blue with the stock hook swapped out. While tungsten is a great bait there are times it's fall rate are to fast as the fish want the bait to flutter more. In these instances the s.s. Hopkins or the Kastmaster and a silent killer silver buddy will be your go to bait. I prefer to fish points and more vertical banks or the edges of submerged creeks that are sheer and the fish that are on them are used to chasing bait as it comes across the tops of the submerged river/creek channel. Right now the water temps at my lake have just now dipped below 60 degrees ( I hate SoCal ) and By watching the western grebes you can tell our bait fish are offshore...typically in 80 feet or more. I have an hds10 with structure scan and I am going around locating brush or trees and stumps that jut out off of the more vertical hillsides of our impoundment and catching my fish there at around 40 feet. Some days they are there some days not. I just have to frequent different trees to find the biters. You can shut off a bite by releasing the fish right over the same spot as you are catching them so when tournament fishing you might want to get drop them off away from the spot your actually catching them on. I do use buoy's to help me but I try to keep them away from my target so as to not interfere with what I am doing and to just give me a reference point to work from. It is amazing how small the strike area might be and also just how many fish you can drag out of that one small spot. Small mouth really smash the spoon and throwing to the base of a steep hillside and stair stepping down the bait to the bottom will show you some interesting facts about how they are dispersed in the water column. I have caught fish almost on the bank on one cast and then two casts later I'll pick off one down at 40 feet. It's all about fall rate. If I threw a baseball at you head you would either reach out and catch it or let it go by. Speed makes fish stupid and do things that they might not do otherwise. So by fishing your spoon in the dead of winter you will be able to not only fish a reaction bait all day but you'll be able to feel your bait while others are freezing and not feeling there baits at all. You can have 100+ fish days on spoons including almost every species of fish in your lake on the same bait. I have done this in a tournament. Literally catching and culling through a bunch of fish while others struggled to feel or get bit. The wind does not affect this bite but usually gets it going better especially for smallmouth and the stair step method. Crappy weather won't affect this bite but usually get's it going better. When Tournament circuit fishing one fish can be worth a lot of points and help you out immensely in the point standings at the end of a year as opposed to averaging in a zero from a tournament. As you can see I can go on for hours about this bait but I'll leave you to think up more questions and feel free to to give me a holler if you've got more. If the fish are reacting well to the kastmaster or the stair step presentation off the lake walls a 1/2oz. or 3/4oz. Silver buddies can also absolutely make your day really special. Typically these spoon fish are not monster fish but my best on a spoon is over 9 pounds which I consider a trophy. Good luck to you and tight lines.


Kelly


P.S. Check your line and cut off some as much as a few feet and retie often and if you are in the heat of battle it is very easy to slip off a unsharp or bent up hook from that split ring and replace with a new one...couple of seconds might just help you out on that next bite.
LET'S GO BRANDON
Remember ...What the Dormouse said...Feed your head!
Robb R
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Robb R »

Wow !!
What a great post , probably one of the most informative blogs I have ever read .
Thank you ---this is a technique that I have always wanted to get better at doing .
I have caught a few bass and crappie(accidently ) using spoons , but never had enough confidence with my technique to get more than one or two .
tight lines ,
Robb R.
george
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by george »

Way Cool! This is what the site was always suppose to be; an informative and instructional forum that we can share new tactics and products!

Thanks Kelly, great job!
Now lets see the rest of us post something that will teach another angler something new! I guarantee you that you don't need to be giving away any secret tactics or baits, just post something that will help out a new angler or a new Idea for an old angler.

There was a day when this site was a real learning center where you could pick up anything and everything about bass fishing or fishing in general!

George
mark poulson
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by mark poulson »

george wrote:Way Cool! This is what the site was always suppose to be; an informative and instructional forum that we can share new tactics and products!

Thanks Kelly, great job!
Now lets see the rest of us post something that will teach another angler something new! I guarantee you that you don't need to be giving away any secret tactics or baits, just post something that will help out a new angler or a new Idea for an old angler.

There was a day when this site was a real learning center where you could pick up anything and everything about bass fishing or fishing in general!

George
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by george »

I will not be as long winded as Kelly but he is spot on when talking about spoons!

So here is my addition to this thread!

I have been bass fishing all of my life and tournament fishing for over twenty years! I have had the opportunity to fish with some of the best and most knowledgeable tournament anglers out there; as in Denny Brauer, Don Payne, Bobby Barrack, Larry Hemphill and Norvel Pimentel; each and everyone of these guys have taught me very important aspects of bass angling and will hold close to my heart forever!

I have had the honor of fishing with Denny Brauer about five or six times on the Cal Delta, Clear Lake and El Salto, Mexico. I caught my personal best 10.7 on a Strike King Denny Brauer jig in front of him and watched him catch his PB five fish of 44lbs on eight consecutive cast at El Salto; I s__t you not, fish of 7.0 or greater on eight consecutive cast!! har

I am throwing a jig as always and I asked Denny what makes you what you are when throwing a jig and everyone else like me just a ordinary joe; you get five bites to my one!
He went on to tell me what Don Payne had told me years ago: Knock on Wood!!!! If there is wood around you, you had better be "knocking"! Pitch your jig against the tree and make it make noise, hit the piling of the dock, bounce it off the concrete piller. Most guys will throw a jig next to what ever they are fishing and drag it by! Some times that works! But when you "knock on wood" the bass picks up the vibration/sound/site and responds to see what is going on and they do that because they are curious, hungry and sometimes agitated!
Well I think he has a pretty good theory so I am going to stick with it for a while, or at least until I get my picture on a main stream brand of product some where; NOT! lol

One other thing Denny taught me was that you have to be meticulous about how you prep your bait weather it is a jig, punch bait, worm, crank bait or what ever! You have to make sure that every hook is sharp, every line tie eye is clear of old line, every crank bait runs perfect, you have to re-tie after a big fish and check your line for frays often! if you do these things you will have done something that most of your competitors have not! They will lose a fish that you wont, they will have a fish come unbuttoned that you wont, they will have a boat or terminal tackle failure that you wont!
He said, "I am not that much better at catching than the average guy, but I am a lot better in preparing and paying attention to the details".

Just something that a legend taught me and that I hold as gospel; this is my present too all of you this Christmas; Merry Christmas!

George
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Champion Jon »

Thanks for sharing. Great post!
BILLYS
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by BILLYS »

Thank you! Will you spoon with out bait near?
TEAM FATBOY.
knight
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by knight »

Good to see you back Kelly,
This is Ralph. Had to change my name for a new log-in, but these are types of posts I used to love to read because I was new and (I'm still learning :wink: ) I thought, "Man this is the dude I should be listening to." I always read what you have to say Kelly and look up to you as a fisherman. Great to see you back. I'm putting a new FF on my boat and can't wait to try it out!
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Kelly Ripa
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Kelly Ripa »

Sorry the post is long but it is just a copy of an email to someone who had a lot of questions.. :lol:

Will I spoon when there is no bait near? YES If I am looking for fish that are what I call residents. Face it some fish don't move around a whole heck of a lot when they have a good thing. 70 yards to a spawning flat and back to the sanctuary they are at home with. I will often beat this dead horse/no bait thing by covering water and structure and develop a different pattern for these fish with the same spoon. The attacking aggressive fish might be set up on points wanting the spoon flying by and the fish under or in the bait may want the flutter or hovering type of action to get them to eat. Let me mention here that spooning can be a matter of a foot or two and your not being bit because the fish are just not active enough to move much as that strike zone has shrunk considerably down from the cooler water temps. Boat handling and your electronics while fishing in less than optimal conditions mean that you might have to stay longer and fish slower and more methodically to make sure you did everything right as far as fishing the structure before you decide no one was at home and move on.

Rip
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Remember ...What the Dormouse said...Feed your head!
mark poulson
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by mark poulson »

Kelly,
Several of the spoon I have came with swivels attached.
Do you ever use a swivel?
Last edited by mark poulson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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toddmc
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by toddmc »

george wrote:Way Cool! This is what the site was always suppose to be; an informative and instructional forum that we can share new tactics and products!

Thanks Kelly, great job!
Now lets see the rest of us post something that will teach another angler something new! I guarantee you that you don't need to be giving away any secret tactics or baits, just post something that will help out a new angler or a new Idea for an old angler.

There was a day when this site was a real learning center where you could pick up anything and everything about bass fishing or fishing in general!

George
I realize that you have helped build a bigger better site, but I miss the old one. I think all of the advertising scares a lot of people away. Your magazine is good and I appreciate the site, but the forums seem to get the most traffic from tournament advertising/banter. People are afraid to share any kind of actual fishing info on particular lakes because they don't want to kill "their" bite. It is a double-edged sword. Every fishing forum on every site suffers from this problem.
toddmc
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by toddmc »

I remember seeing Kelly on Castaic back in the nineties when we were all doing this. Winter fishing is so peaceful when no one is around and you get on a hot spoon bite. I also caught fish in 108 feet off of the west walls at Castaic on a spoon. DVL is tough to fish right now with the spoon because of all of the brush, but I am managing a few when I can find bait.
milehi
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by milehi »

wow, love it when I find I'm doing something right. I live/fish way up in the mountains and the spoon and silver buddy are mainstays for me. Use a short rod for both, 10 for the spoon, 8 on the buddy. Times up here when you get blown, frozen off the lake, you can tie up in a long multiple dock and drop a spoon in each slip and hammer them at times. they are a way fun bait to fish
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Kelly Ripa
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Kelly Ripa »

I have seen spoons with swivels such as you described Mark but I have shied away from them because if you read above I use line twist to my advantage. I have tried using those rotating Bastar treble hooks but they seemed bulky so I always seem to be back using a red hook as it has a demonstrated advantage on my fishery. Look at ice fishing spoons and they way you'd tie up to them or saltwater spoons and you'll see welded split rings and the like for a reason, No swivel just a snap or the stock split ring. The stock split rings on the hopkins or on most any spoon in my box can handle bringing up fish under pressure from the depths it's the hooks on the baits that I have always found lacking.

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
How many guys have tried the Smith AR 3D jig? It's even better than you think and the wimpy hook on Back? I have drug up 15 pound catfish on that stupid little hook so I guess it can handle anything a largemouth can dish out
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
LET'S GO BRANDON
Remember ...What the Dormouse said...Feed your head!
Oldschool
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Oldschool »

Good to see you pop up Kelly.
Spoons can make your day in the winter on most of our CA deep structured lakes.
Please try to keep your deep depth around 50', deeper can cause brain damage to bass. You can fizz them, better yet weight them with a 8 oz torpedo sinker tied to a rod, put it in the basses throat, lower the bass down, lift the sinker and the bass swims away without a wound to heal.
Hunt up some Wards Champ spoons, 1/2 and 3/4 oz, chrome. I believe Luhr-Jensen has them now. The Champ spoon is similar to a Kastmaster, wider with more action on the drop. I know pianted spoons areca waste of time, but try black and chartreuse shad colors in Megabait jig spoons, 3/4 oz under shad schools. The Megabait* spoons are no longer made, need to hunt for them. I change out the hooks with Owners feathered trebles from Iovino. Of course the feathered hooks don't help, just adds cost, but I do it anyway.
Tom
* Luna Baits makes a similar spoon in 1/2 and 1 oz.
PS, $15 for the Smith 3D, good lure but Rapala ice jigs get it done.
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by merc1997 »

interesting read. since we catch a lot of winter bass on spoons, i will give a little bit of what i know. we have threadfin shad here on table rock lake, and in the winter the fish get them gathered up in big schools. one of the best places to look is in the channels of the bigger creeks. on the lower end of table rock, catching bass 50 to 70 ft. deep is pretty normal. i use three colors of spoons, chrome, white, and chartreuse. i use these three colors based on water clarity, and amount of sunlight. there are times when bass are glued to the bottom that even on a clear windless day, they will eat the chartreuse spoon. you will have to ask the bass about that one. as far as working the spoon, i have discovered over the many years i have fished it, that you do not have to jerk your arm off to catch bass. merely lift the spoon up and let it drop. the one trick you do have to learn is how to stay in contact with the spoon, but not pressure or impede its drop. this will result in the spoon sliding back on its tail, without the flutter and kick the spoon will do when unimpeded. most of the winter, we will catch the majority of our bass suspended. it is really rare to catch them on the bottom, at least here. i never worry about being able to see my lure on the electronics either. i still fish with 5500c's, and when the level winds goes from one side to the other with 14lb. mono, on a normal fill, that is 7 feet of line. to be at the right depth, all you have to do is to count your trips. it is very accurate.

a spoon is most definitely on of your best fishing tools, and it is not just a winter time bait. it will trigger reaction bites from plenty of summer time bass also. once you have located a school, there may be other baits that might catch them better, but the spoon is a great search tool. do not leave home without them.

bo
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fish_food
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by fish_food »

Does anyone prefer a siwash hook over treble hook for spoons?
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Kelly Ripa
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Kelly Ripa »

I have never had to go to the single hook. The crippled herring baits by Luhr Jensen com that way and I fish them like a kastmaster without problems. Why go to the single Hook? I mean ...What would the advantage be? I get out of any trouble (snags) without any problems and have never had issues with treble hooks in the decades I have been using these baits.
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Oldschool
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Oldschool »

The reason some spoons are supplied with single hooks is because the spoon is used for multiple species, fish like salmon. The spoons are being fished more horizontal and a single hook penetrates easier into hard mouth tissue or the corner or the jaw, when a fast moving fish turns. I do this this with my trolling tuna jigs for example.
Spooning LMB is usually more verticle and the bass are often feeding on shad schools where a sharp treble hook gives you advantages over a single hook.
Tom
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by dwise »

George Kramer has a new article on spoons that he just put up on his blog today called, "Looking for answers come 'spoon time'."

http://kramergonefishing.com/2014/01/06 ... poon-time/
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Big Buddy »

Kelly that was fantastic. I just had started a thread about spooning and a few guys told me to read your post. You answered every question!!! Thanks
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fish_food
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by fish_food »

Thanks for the opinions on siwash hooks. I always wondered if there were any advantages to their use in bass'n applications.
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by cking »

This is why I come to this site!
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by BILLYS »

Thanks again... I have re read this a few times.... I guess it is time to print it out and keep it.
May I ask , how to you store your spoons? All tangled in a plano box like mine? LOL.
And PS. It was not to long . :mrgreen:
TEAM FATBOY.
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Kelly Ripa
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Kelly Ripa »

The thread that wouldn't die... :lol: :lol: :lol: I keep my spoons in a box that has like 48 dividers but I still get 8 spoons at a time from my go to tungsten and hopkins baits because having one spoon is like having one potato chip...you'll want more.

I would like to thank my fellow anglers for some of the comments made on this thread about sharing informative/instructional information. I know from experience that I might be able to name a particular bait or technique in my fishing reports here in SoCal and not really feel any repercussions on my fishery as a result. I use to get hate email after I posted about particular bites and had to get the mods to yank my email address from all those reports I had posted. :( Folks armed with the same baits and in my boat under my instruction can barely get the same results as the person who has developed the bite. I never fear sharing. It's like fishing behind another boat...they aren't me and I'm not them so fish'n your way is all that is important. But what worked for you and how your day developed and what did and didn't work....It's still interesting to me even if it has little to do with my fishery and thank you in advance for sharing ...it just might have a kernel of info that I can use.. :wink:

I was looking back over a buzzbait thread from way back that had lots of good info with step by step photo's etc. If you want I could ttt that thread and we can talk buzzbaits. Since those baits are really not in use right now maybe we can solicit more interaction from the gallery as nobody has much to lose by talking about something they aren't using right now...I'm all for spread'n info as you can tell... :twisted:

Rip
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BILLYS
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by BILLYS »

Thanks, and I will be looking for the "buzzbaits" post.
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Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Obi-Hub »

Kelly Ripa wrote:The thread that wouldn't die... :lol: :lol: :lol: I keep my spoons in a box that has like 48 dividers but I still get 8 spoons at a time from my go to tungsten and hopkins baits because having one spoon is like having one potato chip...you'll want more.

I would like to thank my fellow anglers for some of the comments made on this thread about sharing informative/instructional information. I know from experience that I might be able to name a particular bait or technique in my fishing reports here in SoCal and not really feel any repercussions on my fishery as a result. I use to get hate email after I posted about particular bites and had to get the mods to yank my email address from all those reports I had posted. :( Folks armed with the same baits and in my boat under my instruction can barely get the same results as the person who has developed the bite. I never fear sharing. It's like fishing behind another boat...they aren't me and I'm not them so fish'n your way is all that is important. But what worked for you and how your day developed and what did and didn't work....It's still interesting to me even if it has little to do with my fishery and thank you in advance for sharing ...it just might have a kernel of info that I can use.. :wink:

I was looking back over a buzzbait thread from way back that had lots of good info with step by step photo's etc. If you want I could ttt that thread and we can talk buzzbaits. Since those baits are really not in use right now maybe we can solicit more interaction from the gallery as nobody has much to lose by talking about something they aren't using right now...I'm all for spread'n info as you can tell... :twisted:

Rip
Geez Rip ...

I see you are still giving all the 'secrets' away *lol* :mrgreen:
~~~Gary "Obi-Hub" Collins
:mrgreen: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ :mrgreen:
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Post by ash »

Welcome Home Nutcases-

Gawd this takes me back, and thank you Rippa for still putting it strait out there. I have been on a hiatus from much fishing and started back up this year with a Spoon in the boat each trip. I will have to spend some time going over your post, but I wanted to say how much I appreciate popping in here on a Friday and to see a Buzzbait thread from YEARS gone by pop up to the top and a great Rippa Spoon thread. Hope you are doing well my brother.
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Big Ed
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Anyway I can help.......

Post by Big Ed »

Great read Kelly hope you are doing well! I learned from the best..

Thanks for the lesson Rip!

Big Ed!
What you say is meaningless.........What you do is everything!
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