Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

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Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby WB Staff » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:37 pm

Update from Today on the Clear Lake Fish Die-off

...“This season is epic,” Eagle told KTVU. “We have dead fish year after year but nothing this crazy.”
This is true, according to Lake County Water Resources Invasive Species Coordinator Carolyn Ruttan. All summer, she has been fielding phone calls from residents, most of whom are terrified that Armageddon has come and that the water is not safe for drinking or swimming.

“I’m listening to phone calls every day about fish kills,” she said Wednesday. “Most people are telling me they’ve never seen anything like this.”...

More info and pix: http://www.ktvu.com/news/274181897-story
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby mark poulson » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm

Tell me again how herbicides are not causing this.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby birdman920 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:36 am

the shad & carp population could definatly use some thinning out ! the bass population should hold up ! . cooler weather should start next month ? " I hope" !....

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby mark poulson » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:15 am

birdman920 wrote:the shad & carp population could definatly use some thinning out ! the bass population should hold up ! . cooler weather should start next month ? " I hope" !....


If the herbicide killing of aquatic weeds, and their decomposition on the lake floor, is leading to anaerobic conditions where there isn't enough oxygen available for fish, it is not a good thing.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby buzzking » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:33 pm

The problem is that 90 percent of the dead fish I have seen on the north end have been Bass. I went to Konocti bay yesterday and was shocked at the amount of dead fish were lining the south shore. I didn't get close enough to see the species.
I wonder if anyone has considered using the spray boats to clean up some of the dead fish as some government agency is paying for them to be out there anyway.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Larry Hemphill » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:19 pm

I did see several sizes of dead shad yesterday. Some I could barely see (tiny) to 3 inches. I was surprised to see some bigger dead bass. I have noticed this summer that we have caught a lot more shallow bass in spite of all the hot weather. That might be the reason we lost so many bass during this die-off. Not sure - just wondering.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby toddmc » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:27 am

When I was fishing the Riviera area last week, there were schools of bluegill everywhere that were on the surface with their mouths out of the water looking like they were gasping for air. I had never seen this before. This was an ominous sign that convinced me that there was going to be some serious problems in the near future because oxygen levels must be low. The algae got better in that area with a few days of increased winds, but I still saw more and more dead bass each day. You knew something bad was going to happen somewhere when the winds decreased and/or the temps went up.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby 185vsfrog » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:35 am

Clearlake is getting destroyed by all the pelleting. It's obvious. I don't see why powers that be can't see that they are destroying the ecosystem. Ive never seen it like this in the 40 plus years I've been going up to Clearlake since I was a kid. If they don't stop the pelleting, they will ruin the premier bass fishery on the west coast.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby john zillig » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:44 am

Why isn't Calif Fish and Wildlife doing anything about this fish kill? They sure seem to care about dead fish at most large tournaments. Short hours during the summer, how far off-shore to release fish, any fish 5lbs or more in 1 bag, no long lines at weigh-in, etc. But don't seem to mind all the spraying that is indirectly killing so many fish. These people need to spend some time in Texas learning how to manage a fishery.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Kwin » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:59 am

Clear lake's water quality problems are MUCH more complex and bigger than spraying weeds. The aquatic macrophytes being sprayed are going to die off eventually at some point regardless making a fish kill an annual possibility even if spraying didn't occur. I seem to recall a series of huge wildfires in the Clear Lake watershed and then a large amount of rainfall over the last year. The increased loading of nutrients washed into the lake from the fires and the materials used to combat them (phos chek) has magnified the eutrophication that occurs naturally annually. That is the straw that broke the camels back this year, not annual weed spraying.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby WRB » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:38 pm

Fertilization from ash and the fire retardants enhances aquatic plant growth, killing those plants uses up dissolved ovygen from those decaying plants. The very low DO levels kill fish, not the aquatic plant growth!
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby toddmc » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:50 pm

Kwin wrote:Clear lake's water quality problems are MUCH more complex and bigger than spraying weeds. The aquatic macrophytes being sprayed are going to die off eventually at some point regardless making a fish kill an annual possibility even if spraying didn't occur. I seem to recall a series of huge wildfires in the Clear Lake watershed and then a large amount of rainfall over the last year. The increased loading of nutrients washed into the lake from the fires and the materials used to combat them (phos chek) has magnified the eutrophication that occurs naturally annually. That is the straw that broke the camels back this year, not annual weed spraying.

I disagree. We all are smart enough to understand that several problems may be adding to the problem, but the weed spraying is a bunch of BS. Everyone who has witnessed it knows that it is excessive and should have been avoided this year out of pure common sense. It puts the fish under a lot of unnecessary stress that should have been avoided this year. A person with any biology knowledge should have been able to predict how the run-off could affect the lake. A little common sense goes a long way.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby john zillig » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:43 pm

I don't believe heavy rain and a big fire has anything to do with the fish kill. There was a large fire and very heavy rain around Lake Naciamento this past year. 100 inches of rain was recorded in the mountains around the fire. (Rocky Butte) I fished the lake from early spring thru summer this yr. and NEVER saw a dead bass. No, they don't spray the lake. Why didn't the runoff kill some fish there?

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Steve » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:56 pm

toddmc wrote:
Kwin wrote:Clear lake's water quality problems are MUCH more complex and bigger than spraying weeds. The aquatic macrophytes being sprayed are going to die off eventually at some point regardless making a fish kill an annual possibility even if spraying didn't occur. I seem to recall a series of huge wildfires in the Clear Lake watershed and then a large amount of rainfall over the last year. The increased loading of nutrients washed into the lake from the fires and the materials used to combat them (phos chek) has magnified the eutrophication that occurs naturally annually. That is the straw that broke the camels back this year, not annual weed spraying.

I disagree. We all are smart enough to understand that several problems may be adding to the problem, but the weed spraying is a bunch of BS. Everyone who has witnessed it knows that it is excessive and should have been avoided this year out of pure common sense. It puts the fish under a lot of unnecessary stress that should have been avoided this year. A person with any biology knowledge should have been able to predict how the run-off could affect the lake. A little common sense goes a long way.


Weed spraying is the least of the problems although its likely a small contributor. Its the nutrient loading of the lake that causes the annual problems. Im sure most of us could quickly list a few sources where the nutrient loading is coming from. Phosphorus and nitrogen loading are the major problems, and until those inputs are controlled/reduced (SWRCB and not CDFW?), annual fish kills will happen. As Kwin pointed out, last years fire suppression activities and high rains (phosphorus loading) probably are the reason we are seeing much larger fish kills this year. In a nutshell, phosphorus and nitrogen feed algae and other plants; once the algae and plants exhaust the phosphorus and nitrogen (fertilizer), they die and decompose. Decomposition consumes oxygen. The more nutrient loading you have, the greater the magnitude of effects.

As a side note, fish kills as it relates to the fish population arent necessarily a bad thing. It could actually help by reducing population densities, increasing growth rates and average condition, and increasing the quality of the fishery. I know thats a tough pill for many to swallow, but it is what it is.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby toddmc » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:02 pm

Steve wrote:
toddmc wrote:
Kwin wrote:Clear lake's water quality problems are MUCH more complex and bigger than spraying weeds. The aquatic macrophytes being sprayed are going to die off eventually at some point regardless making a fish kill an annual possibility even if spraying didn't occur. I seem to recall a series of huge wildfires in the Clear Lake watershed and then a large amount of rainfall over the last year. The increased loading of nutrients washed into the lake from the fires and the materials used to combat them (phos chek) has magnified the eutrophication that occurs naturally annually. That is the straw that broke the camels back this year, not annual weed spraying.

I disagree. We all are smart enough to understand that several problems may be adding to the problem, but the weed spraying is a bunch of BS. Everyone who has witnessed it knows that it is excessive and should have been avoided this year out of pure common sense. It puts the fish under a lot of unnecessary stress that should have been avoided this year. A person with any biology knowledge should have been able to predict how the run-off could affect the lake. A little common sense goes a long way.


Weed spraying is the least of the problems although its likely a small contributor. Its the nutrient loading of the lake that causes the annual problems. Im sure most of us could quickly list a few sources where the nutrient loading is coming from. Phosphorus and nitrogen loading are the major problems, and until those inputs are controlled/reduced (SWRCB and not CDFW?), annual fish kills will happen. As Kwin pointed out, last years fire suppression activities and high rains (phosphorus loading) probably are the reason we are seeing much larger fish kills this year. In a nutshell, phosphorus and nitrogen feed algae and other plants; once the algae and plants exhaust the phosphorus and nitrogen (fertilizer), they die and decompose. Decomposition consumes oxygen. The more nutrient loading you have, the greater the magnitude of effects.

As a side note, fish kills as it relates to the fish population arent necessarily a bad thing. It could actually help by reducing population densities, increasing growth rates and average condition, and increasing the quality of the fishery. I know thats a tough pill for many to swallow, but it is what it is.

More nonsense. So you think fish kills at this level are a good thing. Have you been there to see/smell them? Go a year without spraying and you will see it help the situation. Yes, it would be nice to have a year without fires and to be able to make farmers accountable for what they contribute to the run-off, but stopping the weed spraying/pelleting is the easiest thing to accomplish in the short run.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DDG » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:48 pm

185vsfrog wrote:Clearlake is getting destroyed by all the pelleting. It's obvious. I don't see why powers that be can't see that they are destroying the ecosystem. Ive never seen it like this in the 40 plus years I've been going up to Clearlake since I was a kid. If they don't stop the pelleting, they will ruin the premier bass fishery on the west coast.

I am not a biologist or anything, but there is no way in hell a die -off at this scale is good for the lake. I am sorry but this many fish dying can not be good.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Scott L » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:32 am

Not a biologist, but if the die off was correlated to a need to thin out the population to improve the quality I would expect to catch skinny, big headed bass.

Having fished there again Sunday and Monday, we are constantly amazed at the sheer girth of the shortest bass. From 1-6# bass they were all thick and heavy, but not as long as a 4-5# bass we catch on another body of water. These bass are very well fed.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby MT » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:27 am

So have the conditions improved recently? I want to go up tomorrow but not if I'll be gagging the whole day.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Scott L » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:11 am

The bite was great both Sunday and Monday for us. Took my two sons up and had great numbers both days. Would we have placed in a tournament? NO. Our goal was to catch numbers, and that we did.

Mainly fished the west shoreline north and south of the narrows. Dropshotting MM III Robo worms, morning dawn Trick worms, T-rigged creature baits in watermelon and pumpkin. Lipless cranks in both red craw and shad colors in the AM.

Son told me another boat we passed was throwing an underspin and was catching some with it.

Depth was 3' to 20'. Most in the 5-10' range. Big fish Sunday was 5.9 and 4.8 Monday. Most were in the 1.75 - 2.75 range.

It is a great time to take a kid fishing. They can make a mistake or miss a bite and know they will have another opportunity in no time. It really speeds up the learning curve on what a bite feels like, how to set the hook, and play a fish.

We didn't see any of the islands of dead fish, but there was a couple of places that the wind pushes the debris where we would see half a dozen dead bass in the 2-5 pound range.

We didn't try to learn the lake or new places. My goal was to put them on numbers for as long as it would last. The fish cooperated all day.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DHutchison » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:40 am

I think I was in that "other boat throwing an underspin" as we hit the Hwy 20 side with rocks for several stretches. If you want numbers and have fun, you can catch 50 plus a day right now. The boats are kind of packed into the narrows and midlake arrow due poor water quality in the arms, but even with the tight quarters lots on 1-2lbs fish biting all day.

Go have fun!

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby MT » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:08 pm

Thanks. Appreciate the info.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Delaney » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:13 pm

I agree with Toddmac above. Clear Lake is known to have fish die-offs in warm weather. Who's to say that that this doesn't help control population densities and make it the great fishery that it is. Look at what the population density of spots have done to the foothill lakes, and I would bet that Bullards Bar is next.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DanIsaac » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:55 pm

toddmc wrote:
Steve wrote:
toddmc wrote:I disagree. We all are smart enough to understand that several problems may be adding to the problem, but the weed spraying is a bunch of BS. Everyone who has witnessed it knows that it is excessive and should have been avoided this year out of pure common sense. It puts the fish under a lot of unnecessary stress that should have been avoided this year. A person with any biology knowledge should have been able to predict how the run-off could affect the lake. A little common sense goes a long way.


Weed spraying is the least of the problems although its likely a small contributor. Its the nutrient loading of the lake that causes the annual problems. Im sure most of us could quickly list a few sources where the nutrient loading is coming from. Phosphorus and nitrogen loading are the major problems, and until those inputs are controlled/reduced (SWRCB and not CDFW?), annual fish kills will happen. As Kwin pointed out, last years fire suppression activities and high rains (phosphorus loading) probably are the reason we are seeing much larger fish kills this year. In a nutshell, phosphorus and nitrogen feed algae and other plants; once the algae and plants exhaust the phosphorus and nitrogen (fertilizer), they die and decompose. Decomposition consumes oxygen. The more nutrient loading you have, the greater the magnitude of effects.

As a side note, fish kills as it relates to the fish population arent necessarily a bad thing. It could actually help by reducing population densities, increasing growth rates and average condition, and increasing the quality of the fishery. I know thats a tough pill for many to swallow, but it is what it is.

More nonsense. So you think fish kills at this level are a good thing. Have you been there to see/smell them? Go a year without spraying and you will see it help the situation. Yes, it would be nice to have a year without fires and to be able to make farmers accountable for what they contribute to the run-off, but stopping the weed spraying/pelleting is the easiest thing to accomplish in the short run.


I swore I was gonna stay outta this one, but I just have to ask one question. How in the heck did "fire suppression" find its way into this and the justification or as a possible cause? None of the major fires, Rocky, Jerusalem, Valley of Clayton fire were even part of the Clear Lake drainage. They were all below or on the other side of the mountain flowing into the Cache (downstream), Putah, and Pope drainages.

Now water is flowing uphill and over the mountain then back down? Oh and furthermore don't try and tell me it was Cobb Mt. as the tankers were not able to lay retardant on top of Cobb due to the high winds at the beginning of the Valley fire.

As for the continued pelleting of the materials designed to remove oxygen from the water in order to kill the weeds,
in the middle of summer while the lake is already suffering suffocation from the algae, high water temps, and the removal of life giving weeds, what do you think the result would be?

Perhaps someday, someone will stand up and say enough, the lake needs to come first, not the County grant projects, vineyards or other AG business...;) I doubt it will ever happen, but one can always hope. It's all about the $$$$ fellas, nothing more, nothing less?
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby mark poulson » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:15 pm

DanIsaac wrote:
toddmc wrote:
Steve wrote:
Weed spraying is the least of the problems although its likely a small contributor. Its the nutrient loading of the lake that causes the annual problems. Im sure most of us could quickly list a few sources where the nutrient loading is coming from. Phosphorus and nitrogen loading are the major problems, and until those inputs are controlled/reduced (SWRCB and not CDFW?), annual fish kills will happen. As Kwin pointed out, last years fire suppression activities and high rains (phosphorus loading) probably are the reason we are seeing much larger fish kills this year. In a nutshell, phosphorus and nitrogen feed algae and other plants; once the algae and plants exhaust the phosphorus and nitrogen (fertilizer), they die and decompose. Decomposition consumes oxygen. The more nutrient loading you have, the greater the magnitude of effects.

As a side note, fish kills as it relates to the fish population arent necessarily a bad thing. It could actually help by reducing population densities, increasing growth rates and average condition, and increasing the quality of the fishery. I know thats a tough pill for many to swallow, but it is what it is.

More nonsense. So you think fish kills at this level are a good thing. Have you been there to see/smell them? Go a year without spraying and you will see it help the situation. Yes, it would be nice to have a year without fires and to be able to make farmers accountable for what they contribute to the run-off, but stopping the weed spraying/pelleting is the easiest thing to accomplish in the short run.


I swore I was gonna stay outta this one, but I just have to ask one question. How in the heck did "fire suppression" find its way into this and the justification or as a possible cause? None of the major fires, Rocky, Jerusalem, Valley of Clayton fire were even part of the Clear Lake drainage. They were all below or on the other side of the mountain flowing into the Cache (downstream), Putah, and Pope drainages.

Now water is flowing uphill and over the mountain then back down? Oh and furthermore don't try and tell me it was Cobb Mt. as the tankers were not able to lay retardant on top of Cobb due to the high winds at the beginning of the Valley fire.

As for the continued pelleting of the materials designed to remove oxygen from the water in order to kill the weeds,
in the middle of summer while the lake is already suffering suffocation from the algae, high water temps, and the removal of life giving weeds, what do you think the result would be?

Perhaps someday, someone will stand up and say enough, the lake needs to come first, not the County grant projects, vineyards or other AG business...;) I doubt it will ever happen, but one can always hope. It's all about the $$$$ fellas, nothing more, nothing less?


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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Steve » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:28 pm

DanIsaac wrote:
toddmc wrote:
Steve wrote:Perhaps someday, someone will stand up and say enough, the lake needs to come first, not the County grant projects, vineyards or other AG business...;) I doubt it will ever happen, but one can always hope. It's all about the $$$$ fellas, nothing more, nothing less?


And this....

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby john zillig » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:57 am

Dan is right on!! People are commenting of this issue who don't even know the drainage or understand how the gov. uses money. Glad you posted Dan, as you are for more aware of what's going on than some who post here.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Rich hamilton » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:45 am

I have lost count as to how many responses I have written and deleted to this thread.

Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks. :)
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DanIsaac » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:58 pm

Come on Richie...let it out! :D :D
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby birdman920 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:05 pm

OMG !... you guys got it all wrong! it's the runoff from all the meth labs around the lake !....

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DanIsaac » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:44 am

But there no meth in Lake County....and there's no crackheads either....just a lot of "nervous" people. I personally think its caused from living next to a volcano .....
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby birdman920 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:18 pm

or secret military experimental drug" laced on wellfare checks ?...

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Criley » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:17 am

DanIsaac wrote:
toddmc wrote:
Steve wrote:
Weed spraying is the least of the problems although its likely a small contributor. Its the nutrient loading of the lake that causes the annual problems. Im sure most of us could quickly list a few sources where the nutrient loading is coming from. Phosphorus and nitrogen loading are the major problems, and until those inputs are controlled/reduced (SWRCB and not CDFW?), annual fish kills will happen. As Kwin pointed out, last years fire suppression activities and high rains (phosphorus loading) probably are the reason we are seeing much larger fish kills this year. In a nutshell, phosphorus and nitrogen feed algae and other plants; once the algae and plants exhaust the phosphorus and nitrogen (fertilizer), they die and decompose. Decomposition consumes oxygen. The more nutrient loading you have, the greater the magnitude of effects.

As a side note, fish kills as it relates to the fish population arent necessarily a bad thing. It could actually help by reducing population densities, increasing growth rates and average condition, and increasing the quality of the fishery. I know thats a tough pill for many to swallow, but it is what it is.

More nonsense. So you think fish kills at this level are a good thing. Have you been there to see/smell them? Go a year without spraying and you will see it help the situation. Yes, it would be nice to have a year without fires and to be able to make farmers accountable for what they contribute to the run-off, but stopping the weed spraying/pelleting is the easiest thing to accomplish in the short run.


I swore I was gonna stay outta this one, but I just have to ask one question. How in the heck did "fire suppression" find its way into this and the justification or as a possible cause? None of the major fires, Rocky, Jerusalem, Valley of Clayton fire were even part of the Clear Lake drainage. They were all below or on the other side of the mountain flowing into the Cache (downstream), Putah, and Pope drainages.

Now water is flowing uphill and over the mountain then back down? Oh and furthermore don't try and tell me it was Cobb Mt. as the tankers were not able to lay retardant on top of Cobb due to the high winds at the beginning of the Valley fire.

As for the continued pelleting of the materials designed to remove oxygen from the water in order to kill the weeds,
in the middle of summer while the lake is already suffering suffocation from the algae, high water temps, and the removal of life giving weeds, what do you think the result would be?

Perhaps someday, someone will stand up and say enough, the lake needs to come first, not the County grant projects, vineyards or other AG business...;) I doubt it will ever happen, but one can always hope. It's all about the $$$$ fellas, nothing more, nothing less?


Could the ashes of the fires contain "nutrients" and settle in areas where they would be washed into the lake? Would large scale aerators and/or fountains help oxygenate the lake on the hot, wind - less days? The fires burned a lot of chamise plant, that plant produces an allelopathic toxin, is it possible that the chemical made its way into the lake and is acting as a herbicide? You guys are onto something, aaaah so many questions for the forum greats and only 2 thumbs to chicken scratch type on my tablet! Keep up this intense topic, I think it is keeping away some of the masses from the off the hook bite up there (at least compared to last year...or maybe that was just me farming them, can't get em every time doh!). Oh yeah one more question why did konocti resort close and when the hell is it going to re open?! I want another shot at seeing Pam anderson, If I forget a pfd maybe she would let me borrow one for the day.
Criley

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Stratos278 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:41 am

Criley wrote: Oh yeah one more question why did konocti resort close and when the hell is it going to re open?! I want another shot at seeing Pam anderson, If I forget a pfd maybe she would let me borrow one for the day.

Konocti Harbor Resort has been closed since 2009, amid charges of Pipefitters Union pension fund mismanagement (Local 38 pension fund was the owner of the resort). There have been a couple of failed attempts to re-open it, but those plans went away. I remember fishing night tourneys at Clear Lake and heading over to Konocti to flip the docks and listen to the concerts. Made nights with a tough bite a little more palatable.
Jim C.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby mark poulson » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:05 am

There are a lot of variables out there, some of which are obvious and some of which a stretch to implicate in the fish die-off.
But the one thing we can control is herbicide spraying and pelleting.
If all the other factors are killing off the grass, the spraying and pelleting isn't needed.
So it will be pretty easy to see if our herbicides are to blame for pushing the lake to a tipping point, causing fish die-offs.
Stop spraying and pelleting for the rest of the year, and see if that stops the die-offs.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby MGJR » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:06 pm

Well...I have to chime on a few things. There is some pure nonsense in this thread and a few good points. First and foremost, there is a problem with anoxic conditions in Clear Lake resulting in massive fish kills. As Steve points out, yes, that does have the potential from a population standpoint to have some positive effects to the bass fishery and is probably beneficial from time to time (the scale of this years die off is considerable and the frequency in which we see them appears to be increasing). Clear Lake is naturally highly productive water body - that said, human inputs of various nutrients are further affecting nutrient loading making the algae problems worse (yes humans - you are having an affect). Now - I don't think phos loading from fire was the issue but the near record rainfall and high loads of influx made the difference this year in addition to an unseasonably warm summer.

Now - I do have some issues with the pelleting program. 1) why does it have to be performed during periods in which there is a risk of driving anoxic conditions and when juvenile life stages of most species are most abundant in these habitats, and 2) everyone in the agencies claim that there are no effects to the fishery - but there are considerable qualitative observations about the adverse affects to fish. Where is the data? I think the agencies need to provide some substantial evidence there are no adverse impacts to recreational fisheries. Unfortunately - I'm not aware of any such studies locally or regionally, data collection, or ongoing research that would provide any demonstrable evidence either way (KWIN/Steve weigh in). In my opinion several steps need to be taken: 1) implementation of TMDLs, 2) ongoing water quality monitoring, 3) focused studies (Clear Lake or elsewhere) on the direct and indirect effects of pelleted and aerosol herbicides (or publish/share existing literature substantiating such claims); 4) Evaluation of success of weed control programs (institute physical as well as chemical means of control)? Send inmates to pull weeds!, 5) DFW needs to implement more quantitative studies that have the potential to at least provide some insight into whether such programs may be having any effect on fish abundance, condition or demographics (from a scientific perspective, thats nearly impossible by the way).

I know all of us anglers get very protective and defensive about this fishery - because it is a truly special place. Clear Lake is a true gem. Unfortunately - fishery management, resource management, bureaucracy, politics, money, etc, etc, all make it nearly damn impossible to do, or change anything. How to fix it? I have the answer - but you all won't like it.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby MGJR » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Kwin wrote:Clear lake's water quality problems are MUCH more complex and bigger than spraying weeds. The aquatic macrophytes being sprayed are going to die off eventually at some point regardless making a fish kill an annual possibility even if spraying didn't occur. I seem to recall a series of huge wildfires in the Clear Lake watershed and then a large amount of rainfall over the last year. The increased loading of nutrients washed into the lake from the fires and the materials used to combat them (phos chek) has magnified the eutrophication that occurs naturally annually. That is the straw that broke the camels back this year, not annual weed spraying.



yes - but the weeds would not have died off during the peak of summer causing the widespread problems observed. :-O

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby birdman920 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:30 pm

MGJR posted the most informed & correct post on this whole thread ! we cannot change Mother Nature!... but we " the (DFW) can definatly conduct studies to determine if the pelleting during hi temps 'increases fish mortality even more ?...lake co. needs every dime in tourist revenue ((fisherman) !,if the fishery ends up crippled ! gonna be a lot more finger pointing going on !..

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DanIsaac » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:16 pm

To what degree I have no idea, but the truth be told this lake has been damaged for certain. Sure you can go out an catch 1-3 lb fish everywhere, but the quality fish, they are extremely hard to find, and most of what we see back in the tules, especially along the east shore are all biguns, 6-14lbs., and when you find 50+ of those in a half mile stretch it cannot be a good thing. Only time will tell how bad it truly is relative to the quality fish.

I too agree, this is all a man made issue. Whether its fertilizer run-off, which continues to increase (just look up on the hillsides for all of the new vineyards) or the continued poisoning of the lake via man introducing who knows what into the lake. I doubt this improves anytime soon unless the State steps in, which again, I doubt will happen.

As far as needing every penny, well, this County see's the wine industry as it's meal ticket, it's no longer the lake.

I'd love to see what would happen if they placed a moratorium on spraying or pelleting from June 1 thru Sept 1.
They regulate tournament hours between those dates state wide, due to lower oxygen levels in the heat of summer, so why not spraying?

Either way, this truly is a special fishery and it's a shame the abuse it takes from those charged with it's care.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby WRB » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:12 pm

All our trophy SoCal bass lakes go through boom and bust cycles usually caused by over harvesting a peak year class. California doesn't have a bass management program.
Clear lake is a unique natural bass lake, the largest natural lake in California and needs management for it's specific ecosystem.
Lake residents don't like the smell of algae or look at or boat in aquatic plant growth, so it's killed off with chemicals. It's that very same aquatic plant growrth that provides the ecosystem with plankton, shelter and dissolved oxygen that support the fishery. Yes, wind helps to add DO via wave action, hot summers are not windy periods, so lower DO events occur naturally. Adding chemicals during the summer period impacts this lake more than other lakes because it's a natural lake, not a ddep structure reservior like nearly every other bass lake in our state.
Big bass need more DO then smaller bass or any other fish in Clear lake, they are the most volnerable and the most important to Clear lakes fishery.
I hope you local bass anglers can save this lake!
Tom

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby hydro » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:55 pm

Anyone care to speculate on just what impact this fish die off situation will have on the FLW Costa series event at the end of the month or the team TOC's this fall?

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Rich hamilton » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:44 am

66 pounds to win the Costa event.
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby john zillig » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:17 am

I think 66lbs. is a very good guess. My guess is if not 66, then less is more likely.

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Rich hamilton » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:31 pm

I figured 22 a day and then looked up the last FLW event and 66 was first and second. I got lucky on that guess. The last event was in October 15th 2015 with a very different lake!

Another prediction is that the lake will fish very small and it will be a shootout between Cody Meyer and Wayne Breazeale. Cody is overdue for a win and Wayne is just Wayne :) RR
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby birdman920 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:19 pm

the deep crank bite is happening now & I think it will hold up thru Nov ' I would of had too wait in line for a spot on Henderson today !....

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby merc1997 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:44 pm

i feel that one needs to be looking into what is being released into the air. of course, what is being put on the crops is a factor also.

bo

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby DanIsaac » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:22 pm

Rich hamilton wrote:I figured 22 a day and then looked up the last FLW event and 66 was first and second. I got lucky on that guess. The last event was in October 15th 2015 with a very different lake!

Another prediction is that the lake will fish very small and it will be a shootout between Cody Meyer and Wayne Breazeale. Cody is overdue for a win and Wayne is just Wayne :) RR


Won't be Cody, he's busy changing diapers on his newborn son!
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby mark poulson » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:47 am

How did this topic get switched to a tournament prediction topic?
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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby mark poulson » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:47 am

How did this topic get switched to a tournament prediction topic?
Attitude plus effort equal success

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Re: Unprecedented Clear Lake Fish Die-Off: Dead fish islands about the size of three football fields.

Postby Stratos278 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:56 am

mark poulson wrote:How did this topic get switched to a tournament prediction topic?


Hijackers...
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