Bass Fishing Forum - Westernbass.com

what's everyone using for tying lures with fluorocarbon line. I grew up with the Palomar but have notice when I break off a lure it looks like the knot failed and not the line. I tie it correctly and don't burn my line. I've heard of this happening and thinking it time for a change.

Bass boy dave wrote:what's everyone using for tying lures with fluorocarbon line. I grew up with the Palomar but have notice when I break off a lure it looks like the knot failed and not the line. I tie it correctly and don't burn my line. I've heard of this happening and thinking it time for a change.

The Palomar is the only knot I know how to tie and it has never failed me, to my knowledge. I'm also a fan of braided line.

On YouTube look at Shaw Grigsby demonstrates fluorocarbon knot. He is wearing green jersey. I do 4 wraps versus 3 wraps and use it for fluoro as well as mono. Has not failed just be sure and wet before cinching down.

single uni knot.

MasterBassinator wrote:single uni knot.

^^^^This

Double Palomar Knot and San Diego Jam knot - the okie knot probably the easiest to tie and the cinch protects the line and connection. The reason why palomar is failing on flurocarbon is typically due to friction.

What causes the Palomar knot to fail is crossing the line over itself, this usually occurs by twisting the overhand loop when going over a hook, lure or snap. Any knot the deforms or flattens the line will fail prematurely. The knot is always the weakest link unless the line has been damaged by stress. Wetting the line before clinching the knot tight is critical with mono or FC lines.
Fluorocarbon stays deformed when it yeild under stress forces that exceed 50% of it's tensile strength slightly reducing the diameter. If you snag a lure and pull hard to recover the lure the force can deform the FC line weakening it. You need to be aware of line stress to avoid failures at critical moments like big strong fish near the boat!
The best knot is the knot you can tie properly under fishing conditions, lot of choices.
Tom

I've tried many, many knots and have settled on basically two. The Palomar and the Diego knots. Most of the failures in knots is from not wetting the line before pulling it tight and especially not making sure that the line is NOT stuck in the part of the hook eye where it meets the shaft of the hook. This is especially bad for the Palomar knot, but it will affect any knot. For Floro to Braid, I use the Modified Albright/Alberto knot. It's the smallest and strongest knot I've found.

I only tie the palomar not. havent had it completely fail yet

Trilene knot hands down for me. I have never had a knot break or slip out. All break up the line somewhere. Number of wraps tho – vary with diameter. I average 5 with my 4-6lb. More with lighter – more like 4 with heavier

Stick with the Palomar but make two minor adjustments. 1)Never pinch the line together to run it throughthe hook eye, instead run the end through then turn around and run it back through to double it up. Pinching the line is fine for braid and okformono but terrible for flouro. 2) when cinching it down tight only pull the tag end, not both the main line and tag end at the same time. That way any any friction damage is all on the tag...of course you always want the line wet to cinch but this is just extra precaution. No issues at all w a palomar and flouro after these small adjustments. The other fancy knots are fine but can be more time consuming on the water and can fail if not done correctly. K.I.S.S.

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER wrote:Stick with the Palomar but make two minor adjustments. 1)Never pinch the line together to run it throughthe hook eye, instead run the end through then turn around and run it back through to double it up. Pinching the line is fine for braid and okformono but terrible for flouro. 2) when cinching it down tight only pull the tag end, not both the main line and tag end at the same time. That way any any friction damage is all on the tag...of course you always want the line wet to cinch but this is just extra precaution. No issues at all w a palomar and flouro after these small adjustments. The other fancy knots are fine but can be more time consuming on the water and can fail if not done correctly. K.I.S.S.

Nice BDBR - from a long time Delta Rat and stick i appreciate you commenting on the thread. As I have gotten older i dont have a choice but to run one through at a time (eyes) but ive never considered pulling only on the tag end as to not adding friction to the knot - thats a bit naughty to say

BIG DADDY BLUE RANGER wrote:Stick with the Palomar but make two minor adjustments. 1)Never pinch the line together to run it throughthe hook eye, instead run the end through then turn around and run it back through to double it up. Pinching the line is fine for braid and okformono but terrible for flouro. 2) when cinching it down tight only pull the tag end, not both the main line and tag end at the same time. That way any any friction damage is all on the tag...of course you always want the line wet to cinch but this is just extra precaution. No issues at all w a palomar and flouro after these small adjustments. The other fancy knots are fine but can be more time consuming on the water and can fail if not done correctly. K.I.S.S.

thanks two good points. I do pinch and push through the hook eye. after I wet my line I push it almost all the way down and pull both my main line and tag end at the same time. I will give that a shot. thanks to every one who took time to respond

Spinnerbaits, big treble top water, jerk and crankbaits are difficult to tie using a Palomar knot.
Clinching a knot tight should always be performed wetting the line and pulling the tag end. Pinching the loop to run the line through a small hook eye may deform FC line however the pinched area usually is cut off after the knot is clinched tight pulling on the tag end. Damaged to the line is more common contacting the hook eye wire open end and twisting the knot.
San Diego jam knot is easy to tie using jigs and lures, Palomar works OK tied properly without crossing the line for hooks and clips. Several choices.
Tom

WRB wrote:Spinnerbaits, big treble top water, jerk and crankbaits are difficult to tie using a Palomar knot.
Clinching a knot tight should always be performed wetting the line and pulling the tag end. Pinching the loop to run the line through a small hook eye may deform FC line however the pinched area usually is cut off after the knot is clinched tight pulling on the tag end. Damaged to the line is more common contacting the hook eye wire open end and twisting the knot.
San Diego jam knot is easy to tie using jigs and lures, Palomar works OK tied properly without crossing the line for hooks and clips. Several choices.
Tom

Tom,
Have you ever used the Trilene Knot?

mark poulson wrote:

WRB wrote:Spinnerbaits, big treble top water, jerk and crankbaits are difficult to tie using a Palomar knot.
Clinching a knot tight should always be performed wetting the line and pulling the tag end. Pinching the loop to run the line through a small hook eye may deform FC line however the pinched area usually is cut off after the knot is clinched tight pulling on the tag end. Damaged to the line is more common contacting the hook eye wire open end and twisting the knot.
San Diego jam knot is easy to tie using jigs and lures, Palomar works OK tied properly without crossing the line for hooks and clips. Several choices.
Tom

Tom,
Have you ever used the Trilene Knot?

I'm not Tom, but I'll answer anyway. Basically, the Trilene knot is a variation of the improved clinch knot, with an extra pass through the eye and the tag end passed through the resulting loop at the eye. I used to use it all the time for baits such as those that Tom listed, until I got turned on to the single Uni (or Uni slipknot). IMO, both are equally as strong, the Uni is just a little quicker to tie. I have rarely had one fail, if I get hung up and can't get loose I end up either straightening the hook or cutting the line before the line breaks or the knot fails.

Stratos278 wrote:

mark poulson wrote:

WRB wrote:Spinnerbaits, big treble top water, jerk and crankbaits are difficult to tie using a Palomar knot.
Clinching a knot tight should always be performed wetting the line and pulling the tag end. Pinching the loop to run the line through a small hook eye may deform FC line however the pinched area usually is cut off after the knot is clinched tight pulling on the tag end. Damaged to the line is more common contacting the hook eye wire open end and twisting the knot.
San Diego jam knot is easy to tie using jigs and lures, Palomar works OK tied properly without crossing the line for hooks and clips. Several choices.
Tom

Tom,
Have you ever used the Trilene Knot?

I'm not Tom, but I'll answer anyway. Basically, the Trilene knot is a variation of the improved clinch knot, with an extra pass through the eye and the tag end passed through the resulting loop at the eye. I used to use it all the time for baits such as those that Tom listed, until I got turned on to the single Uni (or Uni slipknot). IMO, both are equally as strong, the Uni is just a little quicker to tie. I have rarely had one fail, if I get hung up and can't get loose I end up either straightening the hook or cutting the line before the line breaks or the knot fails.

Jim,
Thanks for the quick reply. I used to use a Palomar, but the tag end winds up parallel to the main line, and catches weeds, so I started playing around with putting half hitches above the knot to get the line to lie at right angles, more or less. It was a pain in the butt, and didn't always stay tied.
Bobby Barack recommended the Trilene Knot for braid, because it doesn't waste as much tag end as the Palomar. I tried it, and now I even use it with fluoro. As long as I wet the knot and pull it tight slowly it works. I haven't had a knot fail at the lure in almost five years. And the tag end lays down away from the main line, so it doesn't catch weeds. Snot grass doesn't count!

Trilene knot is a double loop clinch knot, improved clinch know you run the tag end back through the loop towards the main line, both were popular long before FC line came out.
When you see a angler swinging the lure while wrapping the tag end around the doubled line he is tieing the San Diego jam nut, first learned this knot in the 70's. The SD jam knot tends to tighten itself with line pressure as you fish, never loosens. Braid has a slippery coating so knots can loosen. The original braid knot was a doubled line clinch knot, very strong but leaves 3 tag ends to cut off!
I have been using the Palomar knot before it was called a Palomar knot in the 60's for hooks and clips. Setlled on the SD jam knot for everything else using FC line. Don't use braid with leaders for bass fishing, for me braid is for heavy cover.
Learning to tie different knots is a good skill to have. The FG knot is excellent for braid to leader, very difficult to tie correctly and under fishing conditions, so the Uni-Uni knot works OK. If you can't tie a knot in the dark or wind it isn't a good knot for you. Try mastering a Bimini twist!
Tom

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91aqhBQFLPk

In another knot wars episode they compare the trilene against the SD jam and declare the trilene the winner but the palomar trumps the trilene in the above link. Real world perfomace may vary....In reality all are good knot, I just prefer simplicity

Everyone has an opinion or a favorite as do I. Palomar is just plain easy to tie, very fast, reliable, and hard to screw up.....personally I use the palomar for all size baits including large swimbaits and even A rigs with a little getting used to but not much issue...to each there own. I have also heard Bobboy B recommend the trilene knot for braid but I personally like trimming off 6”-12” each time I retie braid as the ends start to fray....I dont fish as much as he does though andwould never argue with his success. Personally Ive had to many slip through failures with the trilene and SD jam if not tied correctly but thats just me. For splicing braid to flouro the alberto is a great knot, but time consuming to tie on the water especially when trying to control the boat in wind and current