Bass Fishing Forum - Westernbass.com

Gamma has a new line called Touch..This is the same line Kota Kiriyuama used to win on Lake Erie. This line is much more limp than the Gamma Edge and still has that Gamma super strength. They make it for drop shotting and it comes in sizes like 4, 5, 7, 8 and 9 lb. test. I have been using it for 4 months (7 lb. test) and not replaced it on my reel and have caught hundreds of fish with zero break offs!!!!

Johnny,

Are you useing it on a spinning outfit or baitcaster, and if you are useing a spinning rig does the line bounce off like old style flourocarbons?

I have been using it on a baitcaster just because thats what I like to dropshot with, but I really think it will work on a spinning reel. I know Kota used it on a spinning reel. It is really linp compared to the old style. I really wanted to give it a good work out before I gave it any kind of endorsement.

Johnny- What rod are you DS'ing with for a bait caster ?


Am using a Powell 681 and a 682 bait cast for DS'ing ... But it seems like I get more feel using the spinning on some Shimano Crucial 702's that Luke and I borrowed/used.

presumably you were using 6lb before, did you find that you were having more breakoffs?

What exactly was causing your breakoffs..knot strength or was it being cut on rocks?

Do you feel that lighter line...like 4lb-5lb can sucessfully be used if your drag is set correctly?

Have you ever used a braid main line straight like 10lb powerpro, or in combination with a FC leader?

Dan I am using a Dobyns 702 and a old custom rod my friend David Hill made me with a medium light blank. Try and use a rod that is not tip heavy. I have not used those Powells but they should be the right power. If you can't feel a bite on a Dobyns rod and Gamma line you never will

acm 95301 I was not having any break off problems since I was using Gamma Edge (wihich I still you for all other flouro apps). And yes I went from six to seven becuase the diameter is the same as six. I also use five in clear water if the bite gets tuff. Using a baitcaster there is no reason to use braid in my opinion.

Now i am going to shovel 16 inches of snow off my 120 foot driveway.

Johnny C wrote: It is really linp compared to the old style.

Oh my brotha! You got my attention here, what is this new "linp Line"? More importantly, how the hell do ya pronounce it? HAR! HAR! HAR!

Dam Coochie, the right word is something you can relate to in yer old age.....limp!!!!!

What baitcasting reel do you use to dropshot?

mark poulson wrote:What baitcasting reel do you use to dropshot?

I often dropshot with a baitcaster as well and I use a Shimano MG50 or a Shimano Core MG50

Mark I have been using a Revo SX. I like the drag for the light line and drop shotting. I am a bigger fan of the Shimano E7's for all my casting needs though.

Thanks Johnny. Does the Revo have centrifugal brakes or magnetic?

mark poulson wrote:Thanks Johnny. Does the Revo have centrifugal brakes or magnetic?

Revo SX has mag brakes.

The problem with FC line is it takes a set after it stretches and stays smaller diameter, weakening that section of line or at the knot.
Mono streches in a similar manner, but doesn't take a set, returning to it's original diameter.
Because of the weakened stretched zone, the stretched FC line should be removed after each days fishing.
How does this new FC overcome cold flow set?
Tom

Old School are you saying that FC is good for one day of fishing?

Also remember that Gamma lines are molecularly altered. I believe how they do this is thier secret.

Oldschool wrote:The problem with FC line is it takes a set after it stretches and stays smaller diameter, weakening that section of line or at the knot.
Mono streches in a similar manner, but doesn't take a set, returning to it's original diameter.
Because of the weakened stretched zone, the stretched FC line should be removed after each days fishing.
How does this new FC overcome cold flow set?
Tom

I have had the same flurocarbon line on all year without fail - I understand in theory what you are saying, but is there any on the water issue?

As far as changing the molecular properties of the line... Berkley lines are also molecularly altered...that does not = better.

Every brand of FC is going to be "molecularly altered" from the next. If it wasn't, every FC line would be the same, just packaged differently. It's the; "Let's throw some big words in there to make it sound special!" marketing approach.

I get the same thing from a friend of mine who sells quixtar products. "Hey, buy this Perfect Water, it's Oxygen infused water for 4 bucks a bottle!" I sure hope it's oxygen infused, because if it wasn't, I think a 4 dollar bottle of H2 would be pretty tough to peddle.

Andy

I only started this thread to help some people with a good line choice. Unlike the vast majority of "bass fisherman" who think this sport is all about secrets. I have already gotten six emails from people asking me why do you try and help the ungreateful? (actually they chose other words) Well I think that is what these forums should be about!!!!
My old team partner Joe Bruce used to always ask me why after we would win a tournament why I would tell the truth.I told him because they all think you are lying anyway.
After fishing many times with me, my good friend Tom Blue would tell me that he thought I was lying all the time after tournaments and he was amzed that it was the exact opposite.
Point is you can use the line if you want. But I wouldn't have mentioned it if I didn't think it was a good product.

Oxygen infused? Is that like carbonation, only with oxygen?
Maybe it gives your burps a better tone and resonance.

I stretch my fluoro line every couple of trips, to take the coils out.
I tie it to the tree in my front yard, let out two casts worth, and then put a good stretch on it, almost to the breaking point, and hold it for five to ten seconds. Until the neighbors think I'm really crazy.
Then I slow reel in back in, passing it between my finger and thumb, feeling for kinks. If I find one, I stop and pull that section between my hands to test it. If it's still good, the kink will straighten out and disappear. If it's not, it will break in my hand, and not on the lake, with a lure or fish at the other end of a long cast. We all know fluoro doesn't like to be kinked.
I've done this for years now, and not had my line weakened by stretching it. When I stop my pull, the line shrinks back again, so it still has stretch in it. Just not as much as it did originally, which I don't mind. One of the things I like about fluoro is it's stiffness and density, which transmits the subtle tick pickup even on a slack line.
The only thing stretching it does is take out the coiling memory, and let me do a line check.
I use BPS fluoro, in 6-17lb., or Sniper, in 4lb., and they both work fine after being stretched. They handle almost the same. The BPS is a little more forgiving of kinks, and casts better, but only slightly.
The BPS is just a heck of a lot cheaper.

Mark I use 20 lb. Gamma Edge on my heavy swimbait rod and change it once a year. The rods I change lines on alot are the ones I use in summer in the blazing heat. I actually waited to use the sample of "Touch' for a month because I wanted to be able to give it a fair test in cooler weather. Sun is brutal on FC.

mark poulson wrote:Oxygen infused?

Hmmm... Water=H2O=2 parts hydrogen, 1 part oxygen - how can water not be infused with oxygen?!?

The only thing stretching it does is take out the coiling memory

Not quite true - it is a fallacy, or at least a misconception, that flourocarbon doesn't stretch. Some brands stretch nearly as much as mono. However, flourocarbon doesn't have the memory of mono, so once it is stretched it remains so... the first time you stretch it the line is actually stretched to its max, and subsequent stretching only reduces the coilset effect.

I've seen several reports of folks who like to always stretch their flourocarbon before the first use.

Roger

Johnny - it's unfortunate that not everyone has the level of integrity you have, and understandable (given all the liars out there! ) that many who don't know you or aren't familiar with you are sceptical by nature.

Don't let it beat you down and supress your willingness to share - those of us who 'know' you appreciate your candor and pay attention when Johnny speaks!

Thanks for the post!

Roger

mark poulson wrote:I stretch my fluoro line every couple of trips, to take the coils out.
I tie it to the tree in my front yard, let out two casts worth, and then put a good stretch on it, almost to the breaking point, and hold it for five to ten seconds. Until the neighbors think I'm really crazy.

Im glad in another neighborhood somewhere there is someone getting the same crazy looks I get. I do the same thing right after I spool up a new spool of braid to make sure its super tight on my spool. You should see it when I have walked off almost a whole curado 300 spool of 65# braid down the street and a car comes around the corner My neighbors are trained now.. they see a doubled over rod the slam on the brakes..

tunaman wrote:Johnny - it's unfortunate that not everyone has the level of integrity you have, and understandable (given all the liars out there! )
Roger

I resemble that remark!

Roger, I agree with what you say about fluoro having some stretch.
Actually, I also stretch my fluoro when I first put it on. I have a manhole in my street (high tech, I know) that's my limit for how much line I let out, and then I stretch it from that point until it feels like it's at it's max. When I release the stretch by walking back toward my tree, the line's tension is gone when I get back to the manhole.
So I know it keeps some stretch, which is a good thing, especially close to the boat with light line.

Johnny, I forgot to say, I will be trying this line due to your recommendation. I like the idea of a more limp flouro, and also 5 lb flouro. I have always wanted to go lighter than 6 but heavier than 4 so hopefully the 5 lb does the trick. Thanks for the heads up.

Andy

I have a love/hate thing on going with FC line. In-Fisherman mag did an in depth comparison test in a recent article that proved all FC line tested takes a set, line diameter reduction when stretched.
This answers a lot of the problems I have had; random low knot strength and random line failures away from the knot or any detectable abrasion areas.
I have tried nearly every good brand of FC, with the same random failures. I'm fishing mostly 14 and 25 lb FC; 14 lb for my jig fishing and 25 lb for larger swimbaits. I don't have issues with 6 to 8 lb FC when drop shot or slip shot fishing; less line stress due to the presentation of light weight lures and smaller bass.
At work I can test line with an Instron machine and validate my knots etc., however it's failures during fishing that count and FC fails at random times; hook setting and fighting a giant bass for example. I love FC when it works and hate it when it fails.
Tom

Tom three summers ago I was fishing with my son at Clear Lake. He was using a 1/2 fish-on jig on a medium rod with 10 lb. Gamma Edge. We all know those rocks are brutal at Clear Lake. Well I was amazed when he caught over 100 bass on that jig (wore the paint off) without retying. He asctually wore the jig out first. He had it tied on with a San Diego Jam Knot. He tied it on at 10 years old!!! I am not saying you don't have to re-tie. That would be insane. I do break off some times because I don't re-tie. But it is usually after many fish. Spots have sharp little teeth.

Once you have confidence in a line, stay with it. I will give it try. Who is carrying it, TW?
Tom

Tom sent you a PM

I've found the reason for line failure with fluoro, away from the lure and the first six feet, is casting with a buried kink or loop, so the line is repeatedly slapped against the reel body.
Taking the time to pick out or unwind a buried kink or loop, as soon as it happens, stops that from becoming a weak spot that will break.
I've had nasty "professional overruns" with 6lb BPS fluoro that I've taken the time to pick out and unwind, and the line was as good as new. With 6lb, any weak spot is immediately exposed on the next cast or two.

I don't want to get into a FC line debate or contest. Each supplier labels their line as a specific # test and some list the diameter of each test. Big differences in FC line;
Gamma / Seaguar & Sunline
6# = .010 D / 6# = .008 D
8# = .011 D / 8# = .009 D
10# = .012 D / 10# = .010 D

Gamma 6# is like fishing with Seaguar or Sunline 10# and should be stronger because it is 10# line labeled 6#, it's like comparing applies to oranges.

Tom

Gamma Touch is 5lb.= .0075 7lb. =.0085 Seaguar InvizX 6lb.=.008 8=.009...That is the same..The Edge is the thicker one.

Have any of you read the Tackle Tour test of FC? It is interesting and a bit disturbing because it is contrary to much of what we think about FC. I don't know much about the folks at Tackle Tour but they seem honest if nothing else. Clearly they are not "scientists" but they do real world testing which is really what we should care about I guess.

Johnny some good info on the line. And yes your right about some people being ungrateful about info you post thats one reason i quit posting reports on eastman and hensley on the forum report and in the fresno bee reports i would post the exact lure or bait and colors i was using at the time what depth and area im catching them in and people would e- mail hammering me so i made up my mined you'll figure it out. Doest matter what time of year it is on either lake if you use the right lures the fish will eat them.

Where do ya find that line. I looked at the website and didn't see it? i am likely blind, I am looking for some floro right now and wouldn't mind trying something new. Let me know......

Sent you a PM tidepoint

Johnny C wrote:I only started this thread to help some people with a good line choice. Unlike the vast majority of "bass fisherman" who think this sport is all about secrets. I have already gotten six emails from people asking me why do you try and help the ungreateful? (actually they chose other words) Well I think that is what these forums should be about!!!!
My old team partner Joe Bruce used to always ask me why after we would win a tournament why I would tell the truth.I told him because they all think you are lying anyway.
After fishing many times with me, my good friend Tom Blue would tell me that he thought I was lying all the time after tournaments and he was amzed that it was the exact opposite.
Point is you can use the line if you want. But I wouldn't have mentioned it if I didn't think it was a good product.

So true.......nobody believes anyone any more.....thanks for the info on the line.........i for one am greatful

I'm not buying some crappy line just cause you recommend it. Who the heck are you? Have you every won any tournaments? Ya act like you're some hotshot guide or something.

Can't wait to try the line. Can I get a sample spool of the 7 lbs.
BTW, tell Geno I said Hey.
See ya at the ISE in San Mateo and have a Merry Christmas.
- Wolfeman

If Gamma Touch was made in 14 to 16lb I would give it try, you never know until you fish with it.
The Tackle Tour test are posted on this site.
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontest.html
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
The line I'm currently tyring out is Black Water FC
http://www.blackwaterinternationalinc.c ... water.html
Tom

Mark, I do exactly the same thing with my FC. In fact, I made a rod holder which I attach to the side of the barn, drop in the rod. crank the drag on the reel down to just above slippage and walk away pulling the line slowly off of the reel. Probably 100 feet. This stretches the line perfectly. I then reel it back as you do keeping pressure on it with my thumb and finger. I have line that has been on for over a year on some of the reels. I check for fraying around the lure or hook area during the day and retie if necessary. I use 20# on my swim bait reel and have never snapped one off. ( Thank Goodness $$$$$)

Ha Jonnny C, Do you mind sending me a PM on were to get the line, I would love to give it a shot. Thanks and good fish'n

Tackle Warehouse carries Gamma FC line.
Tom

Thanks for all the good info Johnny.GB..Jim

I recently saw this line and it looks like it could be a very good value based on its retail price alone.

After a tremendous amount of line testing with line in the .22mm diameter range (approx. 6#), I have found the Blackwater Toray Finesse to be the best.

I have no experience with the new Gamma Touch FC line. I will buy some and compare it to the Toray.

All fluoropolymers cold flow. In fact pure PTFE has little structural applications because it is constantly moving just from its own weight.

It is true that all of the 100% FC lines are made from the same basic material (PVDF) and have similar mechanical properties.

What differs from one manufacture to the other, is diameter vs load rating and processing. This is were Toray is setting the bar. The Finesse line is parallel wound to prevent the denting that is associated with the overlapping that occurs when a line is initially spooled. They have an above average quality program and tight tolerances for the processing, chemistry and spooling pressure.

The price is higher, but so is the cost to manufacture a line to this level quality.