Bass Fishing Forum - Westernbass.com

No fishing "Solo" in team events. I'm just guessing but I'm thinking that goes with Pro-Am's too. I'm sure this will be discussed thoroughly from all sides but looks like this is the "NEW" rule in 2011 for WON BASS.
Guy Williams

thats the gayest rule ever heard !

And if your partner has something come up like work, or their kid being sick, etc. ??? That would be a real tough break.

I hardly fish team events anymore, but here are my opinions based on my experience running Angler's Choice.

I'm somewhat in agreement with WON. It's a team event, you're supposed to fish two anglers. I understand if something comes up every now and then, but I recall sometimes where anglers would fish 2 or 3 events on their own due to other other tournament conflicts. They want to commit to that partner because they're good on the body of water where the TOC is going to be located.

With WON's new potential rule, I suggest an angler chose a different partner that can commit to the entire season. If work interferes, then it doesn't look like you're be fishing. Sorry Charlie.

With that all being said, not being allowed all together seems a little too harsh. Maybe a tournament official can act as an observer as a compromise for that day if someone can't show up due to unexpected work, sick, family, etc.

It's give and take. You have to fish solo in a team event...you take a tournament official out on the water with you. And you get him back to the dock 1/2 hour to an hour before weigh in so he can help set up, etc. May not be fair to the solo angler, but at least you're on the water that day instead of on the dock.

Sucks all around, but you know who to thank for these drastic changes to ensure integrity in the sport.

exactly ! or your partner travels for a living... looks like the numbers for next years championship will compete with this years...

Keep putting the nails in the coffin won bass. Won bass is not ran by a tounament fisherman. Doesn't make sense to me.

Personally I still refuse to believe cheating is a common place in tournament bass fishing as most people think it is, but this rule does not make a bit of sense to me.
If a team tournament angler is cheating, odds are his partner is in on it also, so one of them not being there is not going to stop anything.

CBC is kicking around a few ideas to help assure honest anglers that we are doing everything in our power to prevent the few scumbags that give our sport a black eye to ever think of participating in a CBC tournament.

I happen to agree with Won Bass on this one, but probably for some different reasons. Team events are just that, TEAMS.

I would handle it differently by making it a 7 to 10 fish limit. It would encourage guys to fish together as a team.

In the case of an emergency or sickness, one guy could fish solo at a reduced limit of 5. LIKE WE USED TO DO! It puts the pressure on the team to make their own decision. Also, maybe put an offical in the boat. Maybe require 24, 16, or 8 hours of notice that you will be solo so an observer can be lined up. Nothing firm here, just planting ideas. Changing limits will fix most of this.

The 5 fish limit that everyone wants to use lets anglers split up and try to fish different circuits for TOC's. This is good and bad. First, it opens the door for cheating. I think foul hooking bedding fish is by FAR the biggest issue here.

I think anglers should make their choice and support their circuit of choice by fishing as a team. Guys, aren't you tired of 20 BOAT EVENTS???? The better circuits will survive and make our sport better.

Also, weighing more fish stops the luck factor somewhat and the team that caught the best LIMIT wins, not the lucky bite.

Also, going on witch hunts because of Hart is STUPID. 99.99% of our anglers are clean, hard working guys, out for fun, good competion, and maybe make a few bucks to spend on another entry fee.

My ideas are not limited to Won Bass. All of our circuits do 5 fish.

When I started team limits were 10 fish. It was awesome!!

Great idea. 7 fish limit for teams

Or if DFG won't get on board
5 for teams, 3 (or even 4) for solo (at team events)

This way the angler can still fish, but there is a price to be paid so to speak.

You could start with doing it with the CBC team stuff. Pave the way

I agree 100% with Gary, Limits should go back to 7 fish.

I'd love to do 7 fish limits, but I'm pretty darn sure the DFG doesn't want that.

That rule WILL NOT LAST. Cheater will cheat solo or team. What the #!^ (curse word goes here), Hart did it with a "non-team" member in his boat for a few days. DRRRRRR!

Brian Linehan wrote:I'd love to do 7 fish limits, but I'm pretty darn sure the DFG doesn't want that.

I'm with ya Brian, seven fish would make it much more fun and competitive.

But I don't see why DFG would have any problem with seven fish limits for team events.

When we met with them up north at the town hall meeting they made it clear there were no problems with the decline of bass populations in most of the lakes in California.

BS- in my opinion. Guys get the flu or emergenices happen
late friday nite. This is a grave digger idea Won Bass.
Just like putting your fish off on the same date as NBW here
at Havasu. SHI$%y decision, oh well have fun by yourselves.

I do like the reduced limit idea. Fish by yourself (4) BASS. With
your partner (5).


I GOT 5.......MG

Hey Mike-

Ran into Clint yesterday at the tackle shop. Had a great time out there. Smallies were on the chew (little ones)! lol

Anyways, take care buddy and hope to see you soon.

Brian

Penalizing your CUSTOMERS is not the answer. If people are going to cheat, it is very difficult to catch them. We have to continue to try and get better, but the anglers need to police themselves as well. Maybe the director could observe the anglers by going out on the water, just to make the anglers know they must obey the rules all the time.
When there are a lot of cops on the roads, we pay more attention to the laws.
I hope this works out for all the honest people who fish tournaments.

Cudos to Mike and staff at NBW this weekend, when they went through every compartment. Before the event we fished this weekend.

Some of you with wacked out Japanese baits and hooks that want to keep your stuff secret (thank gawd for Thehookuptackle) may want to invest in some lure wraps....

Hopefully this continues!

Tony Richards

Didn't make any WON last year and doubt if I will this year with lake selections and the new rule, which should make very bad turn outs. Maybe we will do some night stuff. Tired of ABA changing dates during the year.

N.A.R wrote:Cudos to Mike and staff at NBW this weekend, when they went through every compartment. Before the event we fished this weekend.

Some of you with wacked out Japanese baits and hooks that want to keep your stuff secret (thank gawd for Thehookuptackle) may want to invest in some lure wraps....

Hopefully this continues!

Tony Richards

Tony.....Were they also checking inside the tow vehicles? I've heard people keeping fish in coolers in vehicles then carrying the cooler down to the boats before blast off?

If you carry a big cooler with water and fish down 200 yards and not get seen your a real ninja!! I'm starting to look for the Popeye arm guys now!!
Guy Williams

WON Bass in my history has never allowed a solo angler to fish a TOC regardless of how they finished during the regular season. During each event they have allowed a solo angler to pay full entry, taken the money each and every time and then not grant equal privileges, hmm.

Yes it is a team event but that is the advantage for the team over the solo angler. Two rods fishing for the same limit versus the one rod.

This alleged proposed rule and the nature of this post in my eyes suggests that somehow a solo angler is not be trusted. If an individual wants to test themselves against the local talent and take on other teams while fishing solo how is this on its own merit somehow bad?

Is this to say that two people fishing together won't cheat but someone by themselves most likely will? What's that old saying? Birds of a feather will flock together. Less than upstanding people will find each other.

If this proposed rule is indeed factual this is a poorly thought out reaction to a situation that is a reflection of how we behave as a society. Someone inevitably performs in a disgraceful manner. The balance never settles in the center, instead it swings too far in the opposite direction.

Some suggest that a team of one can only weigh four and a team of two can weigh five, or something of this nature, yet both parties are in the same event paying the same fee? Any example of this is another form of inequity and bias.

History has shown us that two team members have violated rules and have flat out cheated. History has also shown us that individuals have cheated. So in the spirit of this alleged new rule, for the sake of consistency, and equal application of logic or the lack of it, yes ban all individuals but also ban all teams as well.

Guy Williams wrote:If you carry a big cooler with water and fish down 200 yards and not get seen your a real ninja!! I'm starting to look for the Popeye arm guys now!!
Guy Williams

haha..Guy, your right. Keep an eye out for Popeye arms and water pouring out of the cooler.

Won bass is out of line on this one

shotgun fix for a problem that only integarity can fix!

I fish a lot of tournament be myself and with partners, i like to compete-- if i do better than a team it makes my confedeance go up

you also have to find some one who can comit to the whole year i have the luxury of being able to pay for my fishing some of my friends dont in these hard time.

I do like the rule about 7 fish for a team and five fish for a solo that means I have to step up.

I guess local stuff is out at least for won bass--- look out Pro Ams.

walt kondracki

well just as I suspected ... this email with the new rule listed should NOT have been made public . yet . Thats the problem with people . Always trying to start problems without knowing all the facts. I hate when people make allegations about a subject that have absolutely NO CLUE what they are talking about. Just got off the phone with WON Bass and found out that the new rule is NOT cut and dry. They are trying to come up with a plan to make everybody happy an enable fisherman to fish by themselves if they HAVE to. They are discussing a few ways to get around having someone fish by themselves. Nothing is etched in stone yet. Let WON Bass state the true new rule and an explanation behind the rule itself. It actually has nothing to do with the cheater. Its all about angler safetly people. Won Bass is a great org and is def working for us anglers. Let them make the announcement and dont take some joe blows word for it.

S. Bailey wrote:thats the gayest rule ever heard !

That was a quick 180??

hey chicken !!!! it is the gayest rule I ever heard. Never said it wasnt . Fact of the matter is I would never have made a statement like that if the FACTS about the rule were posted. Like I said it is a gay a$$ rule IF it were going to be true. But WON Bass didnt have the chance to post it and I took some boobs word for it. My fault. But now that I know there will ways to get around that rule its not so gay . Just had to hear the facts from somebody who matters.

I'm for a 7 fish limit. DFG will not stop you. Talk to them. I tried it at the Delta about 5 or 6 years ago and it did not go over very well with the anglers but it sure would make that "fishing solo" most likely go away.
jb

Hey Shawn, I didn't ask for the email but figured you all might want to be informed about something that I got without asking for it. Now, Won Bass is looking at thing "after" I put it out there. Maybe you need to check out the email I posted, nothing said don't talk to guy about it so I made the decision to let everyone know what I knew. This is actually good because now we as anglers have some input on the situation! Guess some want to be in the dark while some want to face things. READ MY EMAIL I POSTED!
Guy Williams

Guy, your a Boob...

Pete

shoulda called and got the facts. period . Instead you started another drama filled day on western bass on purpose without all the facts. You have been doing a lot of that this week calling out a friend of mine with no proof. Im not saying John is innocent or guilty but I will not judge that man until he is proven guilty . Once again you cause drama. Im not sure what to think anymore but I know im not stupid enough to go on a public forum and accuse someone who isnt guilty. WON Bass and John def have something to work out. And im sorry for calling you a boob

Shaun:
I’m not taking sides and I agree people shouldn’t put something out there that is just rumor but it was pretty clear in the email. There were quite a few of us that received that email from Harvey Naslund. Quite frankly I’m surprised you didn’t get it. The email from Harvey was very clear. Look particularly at the last sentence in this quote. If won said it wasn’t the rule then Harvey needs to print a retraction.

[quote]“One aspect of the tournaments that is going to be changed for the 2011 season is the “solo fishingâ€

I have to disagree with you on this one Gary. Seven fish limits won't stop people if they are going to cheat. In addition to that it might work on the Delta with 1500 miles of shoreline to fish but did you notice the looks of the fish here at CL this weekend. You can't hardly find a fish without hook marks in its mouth (and some in other places). You saw for yourself that the numbers just arn't here so why stretch it to seven and beat up more fish. CL this year has been beat to death. In additioin, why penalize a guy because his partner can't make it. Forty and fifty boat tournaments would be great but there are to many circuits out there to get those numbers. Just my .02.

John,
I got exactly the same thing you got when reading that email . Thats why I was shocked. But after this mornings conversation on the phone I was under the impression that they were going to " work on a way " to let guys that are unfortunate to have to fish by themselves still get to fish . I agree with you loud and clear and got the same point out of that email as everybody else did. But when I actually talked with someone at WON Bass today my impression on the rule was changed. Maybe they will fix it , maybe not . Just had to get all the facts straight. I hope they change it cause that wouldnt be good if they didnt.

S. Bailey wrote:John,
I got exactly the same thing you got when reading that email . Thats why I was shocked. But after this mornings conversation on the phone I was under the impression that they were going to " work on a way " to let guys that are unfortunate to have to fish by themselves still get to fish . I agree with you loud and clear and got the same point out of that email as everybody else did. But when I actually talked with someone at WON Bass today my impression on the rule was changed. Maybe they will fix it , maybe not . Just had to get all the facts straight. I hope they change it cause that wouldnt be good if they didnt.

Who in the hell am I supposed to call, the guy that sent me an email? Who am I, ESPN? I don't need three sources before I post what I received without asking for it! I don't need to verify emails Shawn. I think your mad because you don't like my opinion on Zank. Too bad, you have yours and I respect that because that's what friends are for, you have his back till you can't anymore- I get that!! But don't think for one second that I'm going to sit on something that we as the anglers need to know about then hear you all cry (myself included) about a rule we never got to have some input on! Get real bro!!!,

let me ask you this ... did WON Bass send you that email ? or did you receive it from someone who did ? either way that email was sent to a circle of trusted people. And you are right it doesnt say dont make this public or tell anyone cause its common sense . Should have let WON Bass tell us about the new rule and the Zank situation . You knew that they were going to release it you just had to beat them to it. Im with ya on having an opinion on rules and such but without all the facts nobody can form an opinion. And yes I am upset that you called out John. Like I said I dont know what to believe anymore but as far as im concerned he is innocent until proven guilty. And im not on his side. If they called anyone a cheater I would want proof.

S. Bailey wrote:let me ask you this ... did WON Bass send you that email ? or did you receive it from someone who did ? either way that email was sent to a circle of trusted people. And you are right it doesnt say dont make this public or tell anyone cause its common sense . Should have let WON Bass tell us about the new rule and the Zank situation . You knew that they were going to release it you just had to beat them to it. Im with ya on having an opinion on rules and such but without all the facts nobody can form an opinion. And yes I am upset that you called out John. Like I said I dont know what to believe anymore but as far as im concerned he is innocent until proven guilty. And im not on his side. If they called anyone a cheater I would want proof.

I got the email first hand, Sunday morning when I got up. Next time your left out of a decision that makes you wonder, WTF and you really really want to call the org and bitch then shut it because you really don't want to be involved in it! BTW, I waited 12 hours before I posted the full email, I just gave everyone a heads up so maybe just maybe enough people would say "bad rule" and guess what Shawn it looks to be happening! Who would have thought my little post would get a big org to reconsider a horrendous crazy rule that would have doomed them. I know, it was Guy Williams and don't misspell it
Guy Williams

well first of all I didnt call WON Bass and bitch . They actually called me after you started this thread to get my opinion on how to fix it . Im not working for WON Bass and dont expect them to send me emails about important decisions. So im not butt hurt at all . And dont feel left out one bit . Trust me . Your little rant may have changed the way the rule is going to go down. Maybe not . Either way yes its out there and I hope they fix it to .

I will not fish any circuit with that rule and to handicap the guy fishing buy himself is not reasonable, he is already handicapped. I had to fish two events these year because my partner which is also my son could not get off work. I will not find other partners, I am ok with the ones I have. I will simply fish a circuit that does not have this rule. Cheaters allways get caught sooner or later I am really not all that concerned about them. I am far more concerned about learning to be as good as many anglers out there.

Geeeez Guy! Get off your PC. You just bring yourself down to new lows every time you post something. I thought you were getting better over the years but you keep proving me wrong. Your like a 5 year old who doesnt get enough attention at home, then has to act up at school to get what he needs. Just call your friends if you need attention, thats what their for. I just dont understand......i got the email along with a whole bunch of others. The thought never once crossed my mind to stick it on westernbass nor did it with anyone else. why you? i wonder.

Anyone can get on the email list. Just let them know. I received the same email, emailed Harvey back for clarification. It's that easy

Guys

It is not even legal to read someone else's emai without permission in most cases, much less publish it on a message board. So in a general sense I would personally stay away from posting emails unless you get written permission to do so. I looked online today on this subject and it seems prety clear that it is illegal to post emails without permission, but likewise it is rarely enforced and damages are difficult to assign. In this case though you have some third paties you are dragging into the mix, so personally I wouldn't do it. Your choice though.

Obviously this email did not even address the reasons for the rule, or the ways we hope to work with it. If you look at the team reports it is actually not all that common to have guys fishing alone, and having an observer, throwing out an event or two, etc. would address this problem and are things being discussed. Since it isn't all that common hopefully we can solve these problems when they do come up. Heck the CBC hoped to have observers on every boat, so finding a solution for a few guys isn't impossible.

This email was obviously not intended for anyone other than those it was addressed, and all of these people were aware of a lot of background discussions, other emails, etc. Why people want to imply that there is no other thought or solutions that go along with this is simply mind boggling to me. It was not intended for the public and obviously the entire subject is not recapped every time it is mentioned or discussed to those involved in the discussions.

Our primary concerns are safety and in having a structure to our events where the anglers are not tempted to violate the rules. We want them to know that we will be doing everything we can to catch people who cheat at the events, but we do not want to put people in position where they tempted to cheat either. This can apply to someone who is fishing solo, as i am sure everyone can imagine. I think you can all also think of instances where someone had either a boating accident or health issue where having a second person there saved the day.

We are obviously not trying to do things to piss off all our fishermen, as some people ( and especially our competitors) want to imply. We have actually removed many rules this last year which in our opinion were unenforcable or irrrelevent. We for instance removed the rule requiring working running lights for tournaments where we fish under safe light conditions, and we also removed the no fly-over rule. We also allow for the TD to make decisions and interpret rules and violations and to put an appropriate penalty ( or none ) on a given violation. Trivial, accidental violations should not result in a disqualification.

Anyway, i think when you look at how many people this actually affected, how we will actually implement this rule and try to work with anglers, and the safety factor, it will be a plus and probably something the other organizations will copy in short order. I think that anyone who has every had a boating accident knows that when things go bad they go bad really fast on the water, and it's not at all a great idea to fish at tournament speed by yourself. We have also had numerous serious health issues occur during tournaments, and in some cases having a second person there may have saved a life.

I am not sure of the specifics regarding Gary Dobyns accident a few years ago, but he could probably attest to some boating safety aspects of it as a spokesperson California Boating and Safety organization.

Lastly, I do not think that in a shared weight format that a team can share 7 fish. Obviously one angler could catch more than his 5 fish limit at a given lake and be tempted to put it into the shared, combined weight and that wouldn'ty be legal. So this may be a DFG rule with regard to tournaments for this same reason. As best I remember this is why all the organizations went to lower limits many years back. But just as importantly, this again goes back to us not wanting to have rules that would temp people to violate the rules and cheat because it would be impossible to monitor or police.

I obviously do not deal with all these tournament rules full time, so if I am mistating anything please give me a break and call Billy or Harvey and talk about it. I am simply trying to respond and to give you my imput from someone who has been privy to more information regarding these discussions than what was in that one email, that was not intended to be posted and which in my opinion should not have been posted.

Thanks, and I hope this helped.

WON BASS clearly has ther heads up there a$$es! This Naslund character stated that he's not allowin solo teams anymore PERIOD! What's to even think about? With there joke of a TOC, wafflin on rules, and the demise of them as a player in the market, my money is gonna be spent elsewhere!

Why would WON send you guys that email anyways Doesnt it make y'all a little curious why WON would send an email like that but won't come on Westernbass and explain the situation.

WOW! Norcalbasspro. Keep typing it out there for all to see...

So why did I get the email I didn't ask for? I'll post any and all emails I choose to because I never asked for or got it from anyone else but Harvey, take that to your lawyer bob. See what he says, I didn't tape a call asking questions with out your knowledge nor ask anything in a email before this. Big difference!! Glad "now" your listening to us anglers about important issues that might not only affect WON but also the anglers. Take me off the email list because I never gave you permission to have me on it, I'm on the no call list for solicitors!
Guy Williams

Ah the love of fellow anglers....Think I'll take up golf

The reason the 7 bass team limits were discontinued, as I recall, was average livewell capacity was 15 gallons, not enough water to sustain more than 5 bass limits.
In the 70's we could have 1 alternate team angler for emergencies, who could fish 1 tournament. The alternate must be listed before the schedule started. There may have been a weight penalty, just don't recall at this time.
Tom

You know you can give some people a bucket full of Gold and they will still bitch that it weighs to much.

First off - One issue at a time!

That e-mail was sent to other individuals as well, and for some reason they choose not to post it on a public forum of this nature. Harvey and myself have been inundated with e-mails and phone calls since the US Open, regarding the cheating aspect as well as the none cheating aspects of our rules. I have replied to countless e-mails, and none of them have been aired out in the public forums. That being said, maybe people should think twice before they air out someone else's laundry.

Guy - You did not get the e-mail just on a whim... You DID send Harvey an e-mail regarding some question you had regarding the US Open or something of that nature. Thus, you were included on HIS follow up e-mail.

Rules are set in place for two reasons and two reasons only. First is for safety reason, and the other is for fairness. Regardless of what the outcome, we are working very hard to minimize the "Knee Jerk" reactions caused by some of these changes. We are going to be looking into all of our rules in the next few weeks, and working to make sure that our rules are fair and just. As for the information regarding the "No Solo" fishing rule. It will be a rule, and it will be in effect for next year. But that does not mean that we will not be working on ways to help out the solo angler. We all know that you may know well in advance due to schedule conflicts that one or the other partner may not be able to fish an upcoming event due to such issue. There are many non tournament anglers out there who would jump at the opportunity to go fishing in a team style event as a fishing observer, who could learn form that day, and decide later that he or she wants to join in the fun later down the road. The observers weight would not be counted towards the "Solo" anglers weigh in totals. Regardless, it just means that we will not allow anyone to go out alone, and that is mainly due to safety factors. Two people on a boat is much safer than one. We all need to take a step back, and remember that what we say or do, always has consequences, and may effect someone else in a negative light. Please stand by as we do our job, to create the most rewarding and fun tournament trails as we can, with the help of our great sponsors. Stay tuned to Wonbass.com and wonews.com for further updates and stories relating to these issues and many more. Thank you for your support and understanding. See you on the water!

NorCalBasspro - make sure to send me your name, so that I can hold you to your word!

WON BASSIN wrote:First off - One issue at a time!

That e-mail was sent to other individuals as well, and for some reason they choose not to post it on a public forum of this nature. Harvey and myself have been inundated with e-mails and phone calls since the US Open, regarding the cheating aspect as well as the none cheating aspects of our rules. I have replied to countless e-mails, and none of them have been aired out in the public forums. That being said, maybe people should think twice before they air out someone else's laundry.

Guy - You did not get the e-mail just on a whim... You DID send Harvey an e-mail regarding some question you had regarding the US Open or something of that nature. Thus, you were included on this follow up e-mail.

Rules are set in place for two reasons and two reasons only. First is for safety reason, and the other is for fairness. Regardless of what the outcome, we are working very hard to minimize the "Knee Jerk" reactions caused by some of these changes. We are going to be looking into all of our rules in the next few weeks, and working to make sure that our rules are fair and just. As for the information regarding the "No Solo" fishing rule. It will be a rule, and it will be in effect for next year. But that does not mean that we will not be working on ways to help out the solo angler. We all know that you may know well in advance due to schedule conflicts that one or the other partner may not be able to fish an upcoming event due to such issue. There are many non tournament anglers out there who would jump at the opportunity to go fishing in a team style event as a fishing observer, who could learn form that day, and decide later that he or she wants to join in the fun later down the road. The observers weight would not be counted towards the "Solo" anglers weigh in totals. Regardless, it just means that we will not allow anyone to go out alone, and that is mainly due to safety factors. Two people on a boat is much safer than one. We all need to take a step back, and remember that what we say or do, always has consequences, and may effect someone else in a negative light. Please stand by as we do our job, to create the most rewarding and fun tournament trails as we can, with the help of our great sponsors. Stay tuned to Wonbass.com and wonews.com for further updates and stories relating to these issues and many more. Thank you for your support and understanding. See you on the water!

NorCalBasspro - make sure to send me your name, so that I can hold you to your word!

Are you F'in kidding me? I never emailed Harvey about the US Open, I emailed him about the TOC back in late November and early December of 2009. Then I emailed him about my concerns with Zanks personal being, I didn't want to see him get hurt because some were very pissed at him. I was truly looking out for his well being. Get your facts straight! Never did I say, tell me the inner workings of Won Bass! Then you called me on my cell asking me if I was fishing the US Open then again you called me asking if I was fishing the team TOC. You guy's a F'in crazy!! Please tell me more because you just are making it funny now!