Bass Fishing Forum - Westernbass.com

From the FLW Website - May 18 - Day 2 Potomac River. Seems that a co-angler can affect a Pro's day. One of the reasons BASS removed the co-angling portion from the Elite series.

Pro angler Roland Martin and co-angler Justin Thompson’s day two weight was disqualified after Thompson inadvertently put one of his fish in with Martin’s catch and their individual catches could not be verified.

... and on Day 3, Jim Moynagh (4th place) had to dump his fish and start over because the same thing happened to him .

DAMNNN ITTTTTT!

Put different locks with keys on each livewell. this has alway made me thinking of mix ups happening all the time. It just happens.

Wouldn't happen if they would go with a shared weight system.

dwise wrote:Wouldn't happen if they would go with a shared weight system.

Or separate culling tags, issued by the tourney organization.
How do they keep fish separate when one boater stops and helps another boater who is broken down by taking him and his fish onboard, so the broken down boater can weigh his fish? I know this happens often.

Did Roland kick co's a$$ afterwards? I would

James

Fish frequently jump (squeeze) from one side to the other in a divided livewell system. Heck there is only a 3/4 in. gap at the top. Happened in both my Skeeter zx190 and Champion 198. Just need to get into the habit of tagging the fish before putting them in the box. But from the FLW tour anglers standpoint, its a very costly mistake.

I bet Roland added a few more word's to his saying "Son" of a!!!!!

the co angler is a smuck but I'm not about to begin worrying about poor poor dear old Roland Martin. There is live well on the right and one on the left how the heck can you screw that up. YOUR live well is next to YOUR seat DUH! Bet it was done purposely ,publicity, ? a joke, ? not very funny. I'd be pissed too.

Marty wrote:Here we go again – lets beat up the Co-Angler! Pro’s should be briefing the Co-Angler before blast-off! This is your empty compartment to stow your gear, How to net the fish, Not to step on the seats or my rods, Do you have your life-vest, and to Tag your fish and Put your fish on the right side (as facing the live-wells). He should have said there is no need to open my live-well. I mean this is the Pro that knows all and see all about fishing and what to do in times of excitement when a fish is landed! The guy with the cool head that keep an eye out on everything that happens on his boat.

Maybe someone need to write a fishing article on what Pro’s need to tell the Co-Angler, there have been enough written for the Co-Angler (Remember the Co-Angler is the guy that is going to learn and is getting a guide trip out of it).

Same old shlt just a different diaper!

Better yet, just get rid of co anglers all together!

Now we have to tell the co angler your livewell is on your side of the boat? It's pretty common sense and if you don't already know that you should not be fishing as a co angler at a Tour event. These guys fish for a livelihood and to have someone paying a $600 entry vs a $4000 entry have such a negative effect is just stupid. And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear.

It should be common sense not to step on the seats/rods. And if he wants to tag his fish or if he doesn't is not the responsibility of the pros. They are not there to baby sit a co angler!

I'm not quite sure how my name got on this. The co- and the AAA are both key components of pro bass tournaments, and with their involvement come both opportunities and potential liabilities. However, there is only one captain on a vessel and when things hit the fan, he's the one that goes down with the ship. For that reason, the pro has to be responsible for everything that can sink both players.

Now, as was noted, this kind of error is not an issue in shared weight events. And among the pros in shared weight contests, I can tell you this: The absolute best thing in bass fishing--is your AAA with a 9-pounder!

And I hope I draw him/her this summer.

I agree with you to some extent about the need to debrief on the ground rules, no matter how obvious they may be, with each co. Most of us (and probably especially these guys) do that for sure. It was still a dumb and costly mistake by the co. There are many things that can go wrong but mixing up the livewell SHOULD NOT be one of them, especially at this level of competition. This is the kind of thing that can heat up a "cool head" real fast.

James

Moynaugh bounced back strong, after he had to dump his fish, he caught a good limit and during the finals he was close to a win, he might have won with out the mishap or not, only 2 pounds or so. Maybe Rolands situation was late in the day with no time to make up lost weight. Either way bad deals,

yeah, get rid of the co anglers all together...wait a minute, were all the pros born like that, or were some of them co anglers before they turned pro? Just a thought...Roland is a great guy, I have met him and had my picture taken with him, but he has also been fishing tourneys for 45 years, I would think he would have briefed his co on a few things...

George K


your killing me

Now, as was noted, this kind of error is not an issue in shared weight events. And among the pros in shared weight contests, I can tell you this: The absolute best thing in bass fishing--is your AAA with a 9-pounder!

And I hope I draw him/her this summer.GKramer

walt

Topwater Terry wrote:yeah, get rid of the co anglers all together...wait a minute, were all the pros born like that, or were some of them co anglers before they turned pro? Just a thought..

Great point! Unfortunatly Hollywoods lame thoughts are the same as many pros! They forget where they came from!!

F.Y.I.--Brent Ehrler used to be Rich Taubers co-angler. Alot of the best started out that way, so lets give them a break folks. And as far as Roland is concerned, I bet any loss he had was more that offset with his excitement of seeing his son win the event. Rick G.

jc351 wrote:

Topwater Terry wrote:yeah, get rid of the co anglers all together...wait a minute, were all the pros born like that, or were some of them co anglers before they turned pro? Just a thought..

Great point! Unfortunatly Hollywoods lame thoughts are the same as many pros! They forget where they came from!!

I guess everyone at B.A.S.S. and all the many anglers on the Tour level must be lame then because at least in my opinion there shouldn't be any co anglers at the TOUR level. Won Bass, AC, Federation, TBF, Everstarts, BASS Opens there you go. Those are the places they should be learning at if that is what they are after. The Tour level is the Tour level. At least B.A.S.S. got it right.

jc351 and Rick, I am with you guys on this one. Co's are not the scum of the earth, they put their pants on the same way the pros do. I just hope if I decide to do more co angler fishing the guy in the front will treat me the way I treat him. I remember when Brent won that boat at Cachuma, then slowly made it up into the big leagues, after starting out in a club. How about that, winning the boat at Cachuma as a co....

I haven't watched a BASS event since they dropped the Co-Angler. Not good for the Sport, as a whole. A true Professional wouldn't have to worry about some guy in the back sticking "their" fish. I say FLW has it Right, get to the Top 10 and they only have to stumble around the Cameraman.

mark poulson wrote:

dwise wrote:Wouldn't happen if they would go with a shared weight system.

Or separate culling tags, issued by the tourney organization.
How do they keep fish separate when one boater stops and helps another boater who is broken down by taking him and his fish onboard, so the broken down boater can weigh his fish? I know this happens often.

It's very easy to tag the fish with culling balls. I've even used diaper pins to mark fish when I had my old Skeeter, which only had one big livewell. A little bit of organization, and thought goes a long way in preventing mishaps.

You guys trash talking the CO anglers or AAA's, need to ask, "What would have happened had it been the Pro who put his fish in the wrong livewell?" Would you then be trash talking he Pro instead of the CO?

I would. It was the co in this case but I don't care if it was either one, at this level of competition, this was a mistake that should not have occured by neither party.

The suprising thing was there were 2 instances of it in the same tournament, go figure hah.

James

Hollywood wrote:
Better yet, just get rid of co anglers all together!

Now we have to tell the co angler your livewell is on your side of the boat? It's pretty common sense and if you don't already know that you should not be fishing as a co angler at a Tour event. These guys fish for a livelihood and to have someone paying a $600 entry vs a $4000 entry have such a negative effect is just stupid. And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear.

It should be common sense not to step on the seats/rods. And if he wants to tag his fish or if he doesn't is not the responsibility of the pros. They are not there to baby sit a co angler!

It's attitudes like this that keep this sport from growing. "And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear". Realllllllly? Your post has to be one of the most moronic posts I've seen in a long long time. Congratulations.

Bass fishing: The only sport that you can become a "pro" at as long as you have enough money.

Andrew Lippert

Andy Lippert wrote:

Hollywood wrote:
Better yet, just get rid of co anglers all together!

Now we have to tell the co angler your livewell is on your side of the boat? It's pretty common sense and if you don't already know that you should not be fishing as a co angler at a Tour event. These guys fish for a livelihood and to have someone paying a $600 entry vs a $4000 entry have such a negative effect is just stupid. And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear.

It should be common sense not to step on the seats/rods. And if he wants to tag his fish or if he doesn't is not the responsibility of the pros. They are not there to baby sit a co angler!

It's attitudes like this that keep this sport from growing. "And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear". Realllllllly? Your post has to be one of the most moronic posts I've seen in a long long time. Congratulations.

Bass fishing: The only sport that you can become a "pro" at as long as you have enough money.

Andrew Lippert

Ya ok, post like these keep the sport from growing? I call bull $hit. But nice try.

And yes you won't find an empty compartment in my boat for your gear , it's filled with tools, spare livewell pumps, parts, prop, etc. I didn't know it was a requirement to give a co angler compartment space in my boat??

And once again i said at the tour level I believe co anglers should not be present. BASS agreed, MLF agrees. And I'd be willing to bet 90%+ of Tour level pro anglers would agree with this.

I dont think anyone is really trash talking about Cos or AAA. The main thread is about how mistakes can cost $$$ and that it happens even at the highest level of competetion.

Brian D. wrote:I dont think anyone is really trash talking about Cos or AAA. The main thread is about how mistakes can cost $$$ and that it happens even at the highest level of competetion.

Bingo

Hollywood wrote:

Andy Lippert wrote:

Hollywood wrote:
Better yet, just get rid of co anglers all together!

Now we have to tell the co angler your livewell is on your side of the boat? It's pretty common sense and if you don't already know that you should not be fishing as a co angler at a Tour event. These guys fish for a livelihood and to have someone paying a $600 entry vs a $4000 entry have such a negative effect is just stupid. And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear.

It should be common sense not to step on the seats/rods. And if he wants to tag his fish or if he doesn't is not the responsibility of the pros. They are not there to baby sit a co angler!

It's attitudes like this that keep this sport from growing. "And you won't find an empty compartment in my boat to stow your gear". Realllllllly? Your post has to be one of the most moronic posts I've seen in a long long time. Congratulations.

Bass fishing: The only sport that you can become a "pro" at as long as you have enough money.

Andrew Lippert

Ya ok, post like these keep the sport from growing? I call bull $hit. But nice try.

And yes you won't find an empty compartment in my boat for your gear , it's filled with tools, spare livewell pumps, parts, prop, etc. I didn't know it was a requirement to give a co angler compartment space in my boat??

And once again i said at the tour level I believe co anglers should not be present. BASS agreed, MLF agrees. And I'd be willing to bet 90%+ of Tour level pro anglers would agree with this.

What do you call "bulsh*t" on? The underlying theme that you're lacking is COMMON COURTESY! Your holier than thou mentality is wrong. Cut it up any way you'd like...try and act like all you were talking about is "Tour level pros". Sure thing, buddy.

Fact is, the bass fishing industry needs Co's just as much as it needs guys with boats and money to enter as "pros". There isn't any other way to continually grow the sport. So, keeping that in mind, it does everyone a favor to act courteously to each other, get along, treat each other with respect, and both have a fun day on the water, and have a good derby. When you get some douche on the front that thinks he's Johnny Sh*t Hot (not gonna babysit you don't have room for your stuff!!) thats no good for anyone, and as I said, isn't conducive to growing this sport. Anything else "bulls*t", Kevin? It also isn't in the rules that the Co-angler give any amount of money for gas to the "pro", but 99% of them do anyway. With your mentality, because "it's not a requirement to give a pro money for gas". I'm sure cos NEED the money for food, water, gas of their own, and other living expenses....as I said, it comes down to COMMON COURTESY!

WOW isnt fishing fun gezz i feel sorry for roland martin mistakes happen move on

I think the point that Kevin "Hollywood" is trying to make is that you need to understand that at the highest level of our sport (B.A.S.S Elites and FLW)these pros and their sponsors throw down major cash to fish these events and to have a bone-headed co-angler have your catch disqualified is something that can and should be avoided. And the best possible way to avoid that from happening is to do away with the Co-angler altogether.There are plenty of other opportunities to " get your feet wet" in this wonderful sport. Theres team-tournaments, rookie leagues, club tournaments, etc. where these mistakes will not affect the lively-hood of others.Im not talking about Roland Martin in particular(he has plenty of money).Speaking from experience I had the pleasure of drawing Kevin"Hollywood" on day 1 of the Everstart event at Havasu this year and he was more than courteous. He treated me with respect and we both had a fun day on the water(even though the fishing sucked).

WOW!

Andy - on another note--- We had 87 boats at DVL for the Wounded Warrior Tournament. Terrific day and I think the service men and women there had a great time. That's what fishing is about - giving something back. And guess what - everybody got along No problem fishing near anyone else; everyone was helpful; a fun day. If any of you guys out there have never participated in this event, it will be one of the best tournament experiences you will ever have. Fishing was tough, but you know what - they didn't care. A friend of mine told me he apologized to his Marines because they only caught 2 fish. One of them said: "Sir, are you kidding me? Do you know how many things I was able to cross off my bucket list today?" It's only fishing guys - keep things in perspective.

You got a good point Jim. We had a smaller WW event at Castaic recently, it was a great day. We hope to make it a yearly tradition.

By the way, as far as that livewell thing, the other day at Piru I asked my backseater (yeah, i was running the front how about that) to check the livewell to make sure there were only five fish in there! Livewells can get me paranoid

Word I hear from the event is the co caught a fish that was larger than any of Rolands. It even had a hook in its mouth that the co had cutoff. It was put in Rolands side and he tried to claim it was his. The co called BS, then called the TD who DQ'd them both. Lesson learned, put a ball on each fish caught, pro or co in that format. Roland should know better IMO also. Rick G.

Jim V. wrote:WOW!

Andy - on another note--- We had 87 boats at DVL for the Wounded Warrior Tournament. Terrific day and I think the service men and women there had a great time. That's what fishing is about - giving something back. And guess what - everybody got along No problem fishing near anyone else; everyone was helpful; a fun day. If any of you guys out there have never participated in this event, it will be one of the best tournament experiences you will ever have. Fishing was tough, but you know what - they didn't care. A friend of mine told me he apologized to his Marines because they only caught 2 fish. One of them said: "Sir, are you kidding me? Do you know how many things I was able to cross off my bucket list today?" It's only fishing guys - keep things in perspective.

Jim! You always seem to be able to put things in perspective! Matt and I still talk about that WW event on Vail that we drew you at. I'll never forget it, it was a great day, throwin' those LC cranks, and catchin' that nice one on a wacky rigged senko off the deepside of that treeline.

That derby represents all that is good about bass fishing! Lynne and NBW and Lake Elsinore Bass Club put on an amazing event year after year, where there's nothing but good times, a little bit of competition, and great memories being made all around. Hopefully someday soon I'll be in the financial position to be bringing some guys out there for that derby, instead of fishing in the back! Thanks again for takin' us out there Jim!

Andy

Rick G wrote: Lesson learned, put a ball on each fish caught, pro or co in that format. Roland should know better IMO also. Rick G.

+1

Here comes Mr Lippert to the co angler rescue! I say leave the Co angler slots for Stren and won bass and ac and so on. If its a pro tour, cos just cause unneeded headaches.....plus when was the last time you saw a co on tour sign up as a pro the next year? almost never.

Get rid of the Pros..

Problem Solved!!!!

Bottom Line is Roland is a pro. He should have tagged his fish.

g-man wrote:Get rid of the Pros..

Problem Solved!!!!

Thats what Im saying. pay up or go the heck home. I dont care what they call the class/ division/ profession. it actually easy its called a tournament. Npt a tournament inside of a tournament.

g-man wrote:Get rid of the Pros..

Problem Solved!!!!

But then the "pro" wont have anything to whine about or he wont be able to blame his co for his bad day but really i agree on the big money aka Elites FLW just a pro with a marshall should be in the boat. It's the arrogance of some of you pro's on how you bash the co's that's the issue. I bet if your sponsors were around you wouldn't be asses like that. Respect your fellow anglers pro co or even a damn bank fisherman!! It's not that hard!! See you guys out there!!

jc351 wrote:

g-man wrote:Get rid of the Pros..

Problem Solved!!!!

But then the "pro" wont have anything to whine about or he wont be able to blame his co for his bad day but really i agree on the big money aka Elites FLW just a pro with a marshall should be in the boat. It's the arrogance of some of you pro's on how you bash the co's that's the issue. I bet if your sponsors were around you wouldn't be asses like that. Respect your fellow anglers pro co or even a damn bank fisherman!! It's not that hard!! See you guys out there!!

I don't see anyone bashing any co anglers.

Hollywood wrote: I don't see anyone bashing any co anglers.

You don’t

jloo283 wrote:Did Roland kick co's a$$ afterwards? I would
James

A real bad a$$

jloo283 wrote:It was still a dumb and costly mistake by the co.
James

Drawing conclusion before the whole story is known!

Hollywood wrote: Better yet, just get rid of co anglers all together!

For standing up for himself! The reasons you can’t get rid of the Co Angler is because the other Pro’s don’t trust the other Pro’s - they think someone is going to cheat.

Rick G wrote:Word I hear from the event is the co caught a fish that was larger than any of Rolands. It even had a hook in its mouth that the co had cutoff. It was put in Rolands side and he tried to claim it was his. The co called BS, then called the TD who DQ'd them both. Lesson learned, put a ball on each fish caught, pro or co in that format. Roland should know better IMO also. Rick G.

IMO the Co-angler was doing his job and standing up for the other Pro’s by not letting Roland keep a big fish that was not his. Now think about it a No-Name Co-angler having the balls to stand up to Roland Martin. I bet there are a lot of other Pro’s thanking that Co-Angler.

maybe the pro was putting his fish in the wrong side of the livewell................. maybe there was some mis-communucation as to who's side was who's.....as always blame the co,rookie, am etc they are always at fault.....if they would have used cull tags there wouldnt be a issue...........just another thing in a long line of blame..........wonder what the next issue will be????

Marty, I guess you've got it all figured out, bravo man... now tell me, according to quote from RickG, as you quoted in your replies, why the fish the co caught "was put in Rolands side...." to begin with?

I don't believe anyone of us will know 100% what exactly occured but given the amount of info so far, the reasonable conclusion was the co screwed up and as far as I'm concerned was responsible. And you're damn right I would kick his a$$ if that were the case and if I were in that situation. And knowing you, I believe you would too And don't tell me you wouldn't, that would be complete BS and I'll never believe it.

Now as for Roland not communicating, debriefing, blah blah blah... it's a tour event as has been said!!! Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, who cares, but the bottom line is it WAS a stupid mistake, again, based on the amount of info available so far. If it was Roland who did this, I'd bash him too.

And Roland tried to claim it was his and the co standing up for himself, good for the co, if that were true. So what! That's after the fact. And too bad both got DQed.

In this particular situation, it appears some including myself may be bashing the co, AAA, whatever, but just take it for what it is, based on the info we all have. The bottom line is, this kind of mistake SHOULD NOT be happening at this level of competition by neither party, period.

Peace
James

jloo283 wrote:
Now as for Roland not communicating, debriefing, blah blah blah... it's a tour event as has been said!!! Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, who cares, but the bottom line is it WAS a stupid mistake, again, based on the amount of info available so far. If it was Roland who did this, I'd bash him too.


In this particular situation, it appears some including myself may be bashing the co, AAA, whatever, but just take it for what it is, based on the info we all have. The bottom line is, this kind of mistake SHOULD NOT be happening at this level of competition by neither party, period.

Peace
James

Very well said James!

Can anyone add names to this list? These guys learned while behind a Pro - - - Stetson Blaylock, Justin Lucas, Spencer Shuffield. Pretty good OJT if you ask me. Where did all those BASS guys get their start?

bottom line is if roland saw the co angler catch and land that fish saw him cut the line with said hook in that fish watch him put that fish in the livewell and said nothing then roland manage his boat better. was it a senior moment for roland i think the co angler did his job in standup and saying your not taking my fish so will both get DQ MARTY I AGREE WITH YOU thats a first

If it happens on your boat you own it. Pros are in charge of the boat from start to finish. Any issues that occur are always the Captain's responsibility. No exceptions.

Can a co-angler learn as much from an Elite series pro by not even wetting a line? I think that why BASS created the Marshall program. No competition for fish or no fish management issues. A Marshall can take notes all day long and chat with the pro and still learn.

Brian D. wrote:Can a co-angler learn as much from an Elite series pro by not even wetting a line? I think that why BASS created the Marshall program. No competition for fish or no fish management issues. A Marshall can take notes all day long and chat with the pro and still learn.

I tend to agree here on the Elite and Tour level!