Water theft

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mark poulson
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Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:19 pm

This is Restore the Delta's take on what's being proposed:

Barbara Barrigan-Parrilla of the nonprofit Restore the Delta called the proposed contract "strikingly corrupt."

"Secretary Bernhardt is functioning like Santa Claus with a bag of giveaways for his former client Westlands," Barrigan-Parrilla said. "He is gifting them a perpetual contract for water deliveries with increasing amounts despite a collapsing San Francisco Bay-Delta estuary, and water needs in other parts of the state during extended droughts from climate change."
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BigBassDaddy1190
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Re: Water theft

Postby BigBassDaddy1190 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:55 pm

I’m tired of hearing it

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:47 pm

BigBassDaddy1190 wrote:I’m tired of hearing it

I'm tire of them doing it.
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WRB
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Re: Water theft

Postby WRB » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:00 am

Just to remind folks the last mega drought California suffered from lasted over 100 years between the 1200's to mid 1300's before Columbus sailed. Prior to that we had a 250 year mega drought between 850 to 1100AD. Mega droughts are defined by annual rain fall less then 4". According to a USC study we may be starting into mega drought. Without pointing any fingers droughts have occurred long before they became a political issue. All we can do is recognize less rain fall is in our future for extended period of time and conservation of water is critical with our current population density still increasing.
Mark, keep up the informative posts, we are all in the same boat regardless of political preferences.
Tom
Last edited by WRB on Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:07 pm

WRB wrote:Just to remind folks the last mega drought Califotnia suffered from lasted over 100 years between the 1200's to mid 1300's before Columbus sailed. Prior to that we had a 250 year mega drought between 850 to 1100AD. Mega droughts are defined by annual rain fall less then 4". According to a USC study we may be starting into mega drought. Without pointing any fingers droughts have occurred long before they became a political issue. All we can do is recognize less rain fall is in our future for extended period of time and conservation of water is critical with our current population density still increasing.
Mark, keep up the informative posts, we are all in the same boat regardless of political preferences.
Tom

Thanks Tom.
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mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:07 am

From the Delta's strongest advocate:

“California has a limited water resource and water is going to become more and more scarce with climate change. Westlands Water District has used its outsized influence with Secretary Bernhardt to jump over other people to acquire water rights and guarantees that they shouldn’t get like this,” said Barbara Barrigan-Parrilla, executive director of California water conservation group Restore the Delta. “Bernhardt is like Santa Claus, handing out goodies to his former client.”
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BigBassDaddy1190
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Re: Water theft

Postby BigBassDaddy1190 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:34 pm

mark poulson wrote:From the Delta's strongest advocate:

“California has a limited water resource and water is going to become more and more scarce with climate change. Westlands Water District has used its outsized influence with Secretary Bernhardt to jump over other people to acquire water rights and guarantees that they shouldn’t get like this,” said Barbara Barrigan-Parrilla, executive director of California water conservation group Restore the Delta. “Bernhardt is like Santa Claus, handing out goodies to his former client.”


Luckily for us climate change is fake. Increasing population density will be/is the cause of water shortage.

bass king
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Re: Water theft

Postby bass king » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:11 pm

"Luckily for us climate change is fake. Increasing population density will be/is the cause of water shortage."

.......bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....





....HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Whoopbass
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Re: Water theft

Postby Whoopbass » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:09 pm

[quote="bass king"]"Luckily for us climate change is fake. Increasing population density will be/is the cause of water shortage."

.......bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

I don't know what you're laughing at???? Man made climate change is a hoax. There have been so many predictions decade after decade about everything from Jesus is coming to were going to run out of oil by the year 2000 and not one of them has ever come true.
Newsom could have done something about this and he didn't. Hopefully this water theft can get tied up in court since our politicians don't give a damn.

I agree with BigBassDaddy.....give it a rest Mark unless you're going to hold both sides culpable.

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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:39 pm

Whoopbass wrote:
bass king wrote:"Luckily for us climate change is fake. Increasing population density will be/is the cause of water shortage."

.......bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

I don't know what you're laughing at???? Man made climate change is a hoax. There have been so many predictions decade after decade about everything from Jesus is coming to were going to run out of oil by the year 2000 and not one of them has ever come true.
Newsom could have done something about this and he didn't. Hopefully this water theft can get tied up in court since our politicians don't give a damn.

I agree with BigBassDaddy.....give it a rest Mark unless you're going to hold both sides culpable.

I didn't pick sides. I just posted the articles. I have called out Newsom for vetoing SB1, too. Read what I post, not what you think I post.
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BigBassDaddy1190
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Re: Water theft

Postby BigBassDaddy1190 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:51 pm

bass king wrote:"Luckily for us climate change is fake. Increasing population density will be/is the cause of water shortage."

.......bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....





....HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I don’t get it.

gold fish
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Re: Water theft

Postby gold fish » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:23 am

Typical Liberal always twisting **** around..

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:25 am

BigBassDaddy1190 wrote:
bass king wrote:"Luckily for us climate change is fake. Increasing population density will be/is the cause of water shortage."

.......bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....





....HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I don’t get it.

It's really pretty simple.
San Joaquin farmers and water districts have money.
They make big contributions to politicians of all stripes.
Politicians pass laws that favor them.
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WRB
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Re: Water theft

Postby WRB » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:19 am

The argument that the climate is changing from a wet period to a dry period is man made from pollution defies historical geological sceince data. Knowone can argu that modern man creates air, water and ground pollution, that is a given and something man can and should control.
The earth is by far the largest source of pollution but you can't politically influence Mother Earth, you can politically influence mankind. Don't put your head in the sand and believe the climate isn't changing....it is like it or not.
Conservation is good, limiting pollution is good, blaming each other isn't good.
Tom
PS, It's Veterans Day take a moment to thank those who served so we can have this debate.

Whoopbass
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Re: Water theft

Postby Whoopbass » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:40 am

mark poulson wrote:
BigBassDaddy1190 wrote:I’m tired of hearing it

I'm tire of them doing it.


I assumed when you said "them" you meant the Republicans and more specifically Trump and his team. Each side has an agenda when it comes to water and neither agenda benefits the delta or the environment.

Am I wrong in thinking that if more water goes South then more water has to go through the delta? So if that's the case then the most impact will be to our reservoirs and juvenile fish killed by the pumps. It's that a reasonable thought??

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:53 pm

Whoopbass wrote:
mark poulson wrote:
BigBassDaddy1190 wrote:I’m tired of hearing it

I'm tire of them doing it.


I assumed when you said "them" you meant the Republicans and more specifically Trump and his team. Each side has an agenda when it comes to water and neither agenda benefits the delta or the environment.

Am I wrong in thinking that if more water goes South then more water has to go through the delta? So if that's the case then the most impact will be to our reservoirs and juvenile fish killed by the pumps. It's that a reasonable thought??

I mean the water people, regardless of political party. CA is a Democratically controlled State, yet the State is sending the water south, or letting/helping the Feds do it. Both sides are shafting the Delta, and the people who live around it.

The tunnel plan is to intercept Sacramento River water upstream, and bypass the Delta completely. The tunnel would shoot the water directly to the Aqueduct pumps, without ever passing through the Delta.
Bypassing the Delta will mean more salinity, as sea water moves farther upriver due to decreased freshwater river flows. This will affect everyone's drinking water who rely on the Delta for their water, and all of the farmers in the Delta who draw irrigation water from the Delta.
The State is already asking for bids on tunnel infrastructure, even though they don't have the permits to build it.
All the hogs are lined up at the trough, just waiting for the taxpayer money to start flowing.
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Whoopbass
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Re: Water theft

Postby Whoopbass » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:32 pm

I can't keep up with all this. It goes from twin tunnels to a single tunnel and then to the state wanting to increase the water flows down the river supposedly for the environment (yeah right).
I assume it's going to happen one day since this state keeps on growing and no way they will let the cities in the south dry up just so the delta can be saved. There is way more money in charging each home extremely high water bills then there is to let it run to the ocean or keeping fish alive. I pay $60 a season for one acre foot of water. That amount is suppose to last one home for a year so a homeowner would pay roughly $1200 for that amount of water. Something ain't right.

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:53 am

Whoopbass wrote:I can't keep up with all this. It goes from twin tunnels to a single tunnel and then to the state wanting to increase the water flows down the river supposedly for the environment (yeah right).
I assume it's going to happen one day since this state keeps on growing and no way they will let the cities in the south dry up just so the delta can be saved. There is way more money in charging each home extremely high water bills then there is to let it run to the ocean or keeping fish alive. I pay $60 a season for one acre foot of water. That amount is suppose to last one home for a year so a homeowner would pay roughly $1200 for that amount of water. Something ain't right.

I agree. If the state doesn't do something to limit demand and increase supply, we are going to run out of water, and it will trigger massive economic problems. No one can afford to pay that much for water, residential or commercial. That's why the state got into the water distribution business in the first place, to insure that we all have safe water to drink, and to live.
I judge politicians by how they address this.
So far, both Newson and Trump get a FAIL.
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El Jefe
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Re: Water theft

Postby El Jefe » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:14 am

Farmers built most of the dams and levee systems for their benefit..... they had the foresight to store water in the wet years so they could still produce a crop in the dry years..... when they have excess, they sell it to other districts or municipalities..... you guys keep bringing up some billionaire from Southern California but the facts are that most irrigation districts are basically non profits owned by the farmers themselves and proceeds from these water sales are put back into infrastructure, subsidies for farmers to convert to more efficient irrigation systems, and of course lawyer fees to fight people who have moved into subdivisions and think that it is’nt “fair” that they have to pay more for something that they did not invest in to begin with.

I’m sure every one on here complaining has done their part by tearing out their lawns and flower beds.

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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:31 am

Here's what Restore the Delta posted today:

The #LATimes Editorial Board knocks it out of the park with an editorial that gets at what the Trump water plan and Newsom Voluntary agreements mean for the Delta's largest city, Stockton, and the Delta's environmental justice communities. To read the editorial in full, click here.

"...it’s not only the fish, fishing industry, the orcas and the ecosystem that are in jeopardy.

"It is also the people of Stockton and those other communities up and down the river that live or die on the flow of water through their cities. It is the heart of California, sacrificed for more politically connected areas. It is multi-generational delta farming families, losing their water to newer, larger farms to the south. The contest is not farms versus fish. It is money versus people, political clout versus the powerless, the haves versus the have-nots...."

"Some of the water that the Trump administration has ordered to be diverted from the rivers would flow to Southern California faucets as well as Central Valley nut orchards. But surely Los Angeles did not sign up for this — for policies that drain rivers, degrade the natural environment and leave cities in other parts of the state to choke on toxic algae and intruding saltwater. Our survival does not require snuffing out salmon, Stocktonians or our neighbors in other parts of the state."
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WRB
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Re: Water theft

Postby WRB » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:13 pm

It rarely rains in arid SoCal so long ago the visionaries that knew the need for water was critical planned to have it delivered from regions where water is plentiful.
The initial water source was Ownens Valley that Mulholland built the 1st aqueduct system to deliver water south to the Los Angeles area and the Metropolitan Water District was formed. The 2nd project was water from further south the Colorado River via the All American canal system to supply Los Angeles to San Diego. The 3rd was the Feather River project bringing water from the delta region.
The Feather River project never intended to primarily supply agriculture, the water was intended for the increasing SoCal area population.
What happened was greed. Agriculture business lobbied politicians to allow them to devert excess water supply to their use and maximized water flow as a result. SoCal only uses somewhere between 20% to 25% of the Feather River project water supply, big agri uses 75% and about 5% is lost in transpiration.
The solution is cut back on agriculture water use south of the delta and stop the expansion into arid areas. California is entering into a long term drought period and logic, not money corrupting politicians is needed for everyone's sake.
Tom
PS, LA Times article is accurate and surprised they published it!

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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:47 pm

WRB wrote:It rarely rains in arid SoCal so long ago the visionaries that knew the need for water was critical planned to have it delivered from regions where water is plentiful.
The initial water source was Ownens Valley that Mulholland built the 1st aqueduct system to deliver water south to the Los Angeles area and the Metropolitan Water District was formed. The 2nd project was water from further south the Colorado River via the All American canal system to supply Los Angeles to San Diego. The 3rd was the Feather River project bringing water from the delta region.
The Feather River project never intended to primarily supply agriculture, the water was intended for the increasing SoCal area population.
What happened was greed. Agriculture business lobbied politicians to allow them to devert excess water supply to their use and maximized water flow as a result. SoCal only uses somewhere between 20% to 25% of the Feather River project water supply, big agri uses 75% and about 5% is lost in transpiration.
The solution is cut back on agriculture water use south of the delta and stop the expansion into arid areas. California is entering into a long term drought period and logic, not money corrupting politicians is needed for everyone's sake.
Tom
PS, LA Times article is accurate and surprised they published it!

I was surprised, too.
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El Jefe
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Re: Water theft

Postby El Jefe » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:57 pm

How about we stop building sub divisions and encroaching on valuable farm land , which in turn would slow down farmland expansion into less desirable areas? I wish 100% of the Feather River Project went to farmers...... So Cal and the Bay Area can pony up the cash and start de salinating the damn ocean.

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Re: Water theft

Postby WRB » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:46 pm

California has 39 million people, 10 million more people then 2nd largest state population Texas.
It's about time everyone realize the importance of water, the people are not going to leave.
Politicians are not going to serve the people who elected them if not held accountable.
The problem for a small special interest group like fisherman is we are poorly organized and split into smaller regional groups who want to protect their own turf.
I lived in Bishop California a few years and the animosity towards people who lived in SoCal was openly displayed, yet nearly everyone who lived there were transplants from SoCal. The scares from the Owens River project were deep yet didn't affect Bishop residents who benefited from lakes Crowley and Pleasent Valley reservoirs. The Owens River is free flowing past Bishop and water deverted at Tinnamaha near Lone Pine about 60 miles south of Bishop. The Ownes River historically ended at Ownes lake seeping into the desert floor.
Regarding small family farms selling out to large coops over looks how crops are sold to storage facilities and brokered to the highest bidder. The days of small local markets buying crops are gone with the exception of a few small organic farmers selling to local farmers markets. Large distribution to world wide markets is today's market place. The local farm land is more valuable then the family farm.
Wishing everything was like it used to be ignores the fact 39 million people would need to pack up and leave without any more taking our place. The indigenous California natives were small nomadic tribes moving seasonally because of the ever changing climate, water has always been a problem.
Tom
Last edited by WRB on Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Water theft

Postby Tom_Zam » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Ahaha. Oh my. Just joined the forum a couple of days ago and even here I'm hearing about this Bernhardt jackass :o

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:20 am

WRB wrote:California has 39 million people, 10 million more people then 2nd largest state population Texas.
It's about time everyone realize the importance of water, the people are not going to leave.
Politicians are not going to serve the people who elected them if not held accountable.
The problem for a small special interest group like fisherman is we are poorly organized and split into smaller regional groups who want to protect their own turf.
I lived in Bishop California a few years and the animosity towards people who lived in SoCal was openly displayed, yet nearly everyone who lived there were transplants from SoCal. The scares from the Owens River project were deep yet didn't affect Bishop residents who benefited from lakes Crowley and Pleasent Valley reservoirs. The Owens River is free flowing past Bishop and water deverted at Tinnamaha near Lone Pine about 60 miles south of Bishop. The Ownes River historically ended at Ownes lake seeping into the desert floor.
Regarding small family farms selling out to large coops over looks how crops are sold to storage facilities and brokered to the highest bidder. The days of small local markets buying crops are gone with the exception of a few small organic farmers selling to local farmers markets. Large distribution to world wide markets is today's market place. The local farm land is more valuable then the family farm.
Wishing everything was like it used to be ignores the fact 39 million people would need to pack up and leave without any more taking our place. The indigenous California natives were small nomadic tribes moving seasonally because of the ever changing climate, water has always been a problem.
Tom

Thanks for this. People alive today don't know about the history of the Owens Valley. In the 50's my family used to drive up the switchbacked Sherwin Grade, and pass the Basque sheep herders moving their herds down to Bishop for the winter. There wasn't anywhere in Bishop, on the west side of 395, that didn't have standing water. So different now.
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mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:58 am

Another voice in protest of the water theft:
http://www.elkgrovenews.net/2019/11/gro ... b.facebook
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gixxer464
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Re: Water theft

Postby gixxer464 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:08 pm

Whats wrong with building more dams?

mark poulson
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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:39 pm

gixxer464 wrote:Whats wrong with building more dams?

Nothing.
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WRB
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Re: Water theft

Postby WRB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:18 pm

San Vicente dam was raised 117' to double water storage, the project was intended to be completed a decade ago finished last year in 2018. I believe the Shasta dam project is still in work?
I read a new dam is scheduled and funded for the Scaramento River water, it will be interesting to follow how this progresses. New reservoirs are definately needed as water storage is so critical.
It's difficult to get a permit to build a new house with all the environmental impact studies needed. A dam floods terrian that every environmentalist will claim some species will be endangered, courts get envolved and a decades goes by while funding shrinks.
Let's hope the 8 funded water storage facilities get completed as soon as possible.
Tom

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Re: Water theft

Postby mark poulson » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:37 pm

WRB wrote:San Vicente dam was raised 117' to double water storage, the project was intended to be completed a decade ago finished last year in 2018. I believe the Shasta dam project is still in work?
I read a new dam is scheduled and funded for the Scaramento River water, it will be interesting to follow how this progresses. New reservoirs are definately needed as water storage is so critical.
It's difficult to get a permit to build a new house with all the environmental impact studies needed. A dam floods terrian that every environmentalist will claim some species will be endangered, courts get envolved and a decades goes by while funding shrinks.
Let's hope the 8 funded water storage facilities get completed as soon as possible.
Tom

Amen.
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