15% ethanol

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mark poulson
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15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:07 am

I've read that the EPA has mandated a rise in ethanol in gasoline to 15%.
Will that be out here in CA, too, and will there be come kind of additives we can use to protect our outboard engines?
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Rod Martin
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby Rod Martin » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:07 am

I worry about that too. Right now our reg. 10% ethanol is $2.32 a gal.

But I pay $2.57 for boat gas NO Ethanol

I worry that the crazy California rules will move here and get rid of my boat gas
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monte300
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby monte300 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:56 am

Since I buy all my bass boat gas on the water at Tiki Lagun, I asked them and their gas does contain Ethanol. I currently mix Sta-Bil 360 Marine Ethanol Treatment and Fuel Stabilizer when I gas up my outboard. Is there anything I can be doing better?

kmah
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby kmah » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:41 pm

I have been using Lucas Oil Ethanol conditioner every 4-5 tank.

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-trea ... tabilizers

Support those who support our local industry.

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mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:44 pm

kmah wrote:I have been using Lucas Oil Ethanol conditioner every 4-5 tank.

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-trea ... tabilizers

Support those who support our local industry.

K. Mah


Ken, is using it every 4-5 tanks going to protect against the 15% ethanol gas?
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kmah
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby kmah » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:24 pm

Mark

The conditioner contains additives to prevent rust and corrosion associated with the use of ethanol fuels. It helps protects your engine oil lubricants from the harmful effects of alcohol combustion.

I guess in plain English I’ve put 5 Mercurys into market in the past 5 years. I run lucas oil synthetic and use the ethanol conditioner in each of those engines. I always keep tabs on the Boats and motors I’ve sold and not a single one of those engines (knock on wood) to this date has had one issue at all and especially with fuel diaphragms, fuel rails etc. which ethanol is know to wreak havoc on.

The 13 and 15 that I sold have excess of 400-500 hours on them and other than gas oil and the 100 hour services those owners have had zero issues.

I feel like it helps and most definitely didn’t hurt.

Ken

mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:25 pm

Ken,
I always add fuel treatment whenever I put gas in my boat.
I'm just worried about the 15% ethanol, I guess. From what I've read it is really bad for outboard engines, like my 2008 Opti.
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing.
Mark
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monte300
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby monte300 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:37 pm

I have a 2000 175HP Evinrude Ficht and have always filled the tank every winter adding Stabil storage. I only use my boat 8 months a year. About three years ago I started getting religious about using the Stabil 360 every time I gas up. This engine probably only has 300 or so hours on it. Knock on wood I have not had any fuel related problems.

callwakeup
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby callwakeup » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:44 pm

Great topic..,

How about for 4 strokes?

Thanks

Jerred A Jennings
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby Jerred A Jennings » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:16 am

mark poulson wrote:Ken,
I always add fuel treatment whenever I put gas in my boat.
I'm just worried about the 15% ethanol, I guess. From what I've read it is really bad for outboard engines, like my 2008 Opti.
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing.
Mark





Mark the ethanol Is bad for your outboard. Without a doubt. If your not putting fuel additives your rolling the dice. Definitely with the new outboards.
I have had two outboards have fuelrail and other related fuel issues In the last four years. That have cost me fishing time and money.
You need to put a treatment In your fuel.As Ken said The Lucas ethanol treatment Is a good one and they put money back Into the Industry. I have been using the Lucas ethanol treatment for almost Two years now and It has worked well for me since I started using It. My 2016 Mercury 250 XS had 130 hrs on It and had no fuel Issues or problems when I sold It.
Good Luck.
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mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:25 pm

Jerred A Jennings wrote:
mark poulson wrote:Ken,
I always add fuel treatment whenever I put gas in my boat.
I'm just worried about the 15% ethanol, I guess. From what I've read it is really bad for outboard engines, like my 2008 Opti.
Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing.
Mark


Thanks Jarred.




Mark the ethanol Is bad for your outboard. Without a doubt. If your not putting fuel additives your rolling the dice. Definitely with the new outboards.
I have had two outboards have fuelrail and other related fuel issues In the last four years. That have cost me fishing time and money.
You need to put a treatment In your fuel.As Ken said The Lucas ethanol treatment Is a good one and they put money back Into the Industry. I have been using the Lucas ethanol treatment for almost Two years now and It has worked well for me since I started using It. My 2016 Mercury 250 XS had 130 hrs on It and had no fuel Issues or problems when I sold It.
Good Luck.
Good fishing.
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ash
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby ash » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:38 am

Yeah this sucks all around and the fact that we are doubling down on grain based bio fuels is even more discerning, but thats another topic for another time.

I use the stabil marine in each tank especially when i am not going through the fuel frequently. I am also a big proponent of seafoam in my boat gas and run a separate fuel water separator vs just the fuel filter on board. I am with you I have an older motor and have the same types of concerns.

mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:20 pm

Is there an additive that prevents the fuel separation caused by ethanol?
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ash
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby ash » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:38 pm

Nothing that I have found prevents it, only slows it down. Unless there is some new something and then I'd want to read the white papers on it

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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby Bass Pro Shopper » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:30 pm

I read an article somewhere a while back that said 15% ethanol will start causing problems for car engines outside of more recent model years. Now, when people start to have issues with their vehicles because of that, you'll be hearing a scream that will hopefully get them to take it back down to 10 or (for marine motor sake) less.
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mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:09 am

I've been using True fuel treatment. Will switching to another brand of fuel treatment while some already treated fuel is still in my boat cause any problems?
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65mph Bayliner
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby 65mph Bayliner » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:46 am

I agree 100%, Ethanol does throw a wrench in the mix.

I've been a Race engine/Performance engine builder for 20+ years, Ethanol causes fuel system components to dry out, rubber fuel lines split and leak, gaskets dry out and leak, ect... Worst part is Ethanol attracts water, this can cause major problems for us boaters. Also, for you guys like me who still use carburetors, and some older Electronic Fuel Injection engines the ethanol burns leaner, proper air fuel ratios have always been approx 12.5 full power and approx 14.7 stoich. Add the 10-15% ethanol in the mix and now our full power Air fuel ratio is 12.8-12.9 ish and stoich is approx 15.1-15.2 afr. For us high horsepower guys the ethanol is a great addition to the mix because it resists detonation, this definately helps me and my Bayliner which makes 400+ horsepower. I do use Sta-Bil marine stabilizer when i know the boat sits for long periods of time. This is the key, the ethanol only causes problems when it sits for longer periods of time.

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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby ash » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:24 pm

Defining "long periods of time" is also key I recall reading that after 30 days ethanol begins to separate, i just Dont recall where i read it.

mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:32 pm

ash wrote:Defining "long periods of time" is also key I recall reading that after 30 days ethanol begins to separate, i just Dont recall where i read it.


I read on their website that Sta-Bil 360 does protect against E15 gas damage, so I ordered some.
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monte300
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby monte300 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:19 am

Amazon is a good place to buy Stabil 360

mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:04 pm

monte300 wrote:Amazon is a good place to buy Stabil 360


That's where I got mine.
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NoCAL
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby NoCAL » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:47 pm

Keep in mind E15 is only available a few places none of them in CA and is not mandated...yet. Stations do not HAVE to sell it if they don't want to. Mercury says that E10 is safe to use in Optimax and Verado motors, however for early 2000's era motors, the fuel lines do need to be changed to the ethanol resistant type. For what it's worth, I have only ran E10 in my 2 Mercury motors and have never had a fuel related problem. That said I did or do:
Change out the fuel lines
Only use gas from busy stations
Run Quickleen in every tank
Use it enough in the summer that separation is not a problem
For winter storage (1-2 mo. at most) I fill the tank and add QuickCare, Quickleen,and QuickStor at the recommended amounts. I run them through the motor for a good amount of time on the lake at high RPMs.

NoCAL

mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:59 pm

NoCAL wrote:Keep in mind E15 is only available a few places none of them in CA and is not mandated...yet. Stations do not HAVE to sell it if they don't want to. Mercury says that E10 is safe to use in Optimax and Verado motors, however for early 2000's era motors, the fuel lines do need to be changed to the ethanol resistant type. For what it's worth, I have only ran E10 in my 2 Mercury motors and have never had a fuel related problem. That said I did or do:
Change out the fuel lines
Only use gas from busy stations
Run Quickleen in every tank
Use it enough in the summer that separation is not a problem
For winter storage (1-2 mo. at most) I fill the tank and add QuickCare, Quickleen,and QuickStor at the recommended amounts. I run them through the motor for a good amount of time on the lake at high RPMs.

NoCAL


How long before E15 makes its way here?
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NoCAL
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby NoCAL » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:05 pm

Last info I heard was CA had no plans for bringing E15 here.

NoCAL

mark poulson
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Re: 15% ethanol

Postby mark poulson » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:03 am

NoCAL wrote:Last info I heard was CA had no plans for bringing E15 here.

NoCAL


Man, I hope you're right.
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