anorexic bass at dvl

smpboy · Post by **smpboy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:10 am

whats the deal they look like they are from the local golf course i think they are overpopulated and dont have enough food whats your thoughts?

BIG L · Post by **BIG L** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:57 am

These fish are looking worse each week. Our biggest fish weighed 4.41 sat nite it should have been 7# plus. All of our fish were like that. They look starved, but are not eating like they are hungry. They look like lake mead fish. If it were a case of over population you would think that you would catch alot more fish. I think it has to do with the water level and the oxygen levels. Maybe Mike can let us know how the counts are from the shocking, if they are doing any this summer.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:58 am

There are alot of skinny fish right now. Give it a 2 weeks and they all will be puking up shad all over your boat. Ive been more concerned with the bass i catch that have sores all over there body. Alot of my fish have been having reddish sores around their mouth's and Gil plates. I netted a fish that was in the 7-8lb class that had sores eating away at its gills , jaw and tail . When i trolled up to her she was still alive and i thought she might have something lodged in her throat. Well that was'nt that case. She was in bad shape. One bump on the net and she went back down and never came back up. We waited around 10 minutes and never saw her come up. Hopefully she is ok.

I dont know a whole alot about LMBV but it looks like something along those lines.

-John Curry

Bill Hutcheson · Post by **Bill Hutcheson** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:08 am

Perhaps Mike Giusti can hop in on this thread and shed some light on what might be going on........

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:13 am

Another question I dont know where to address. I can see the end of the launch ramp

What's the plan guys? we got 15 ft of ramp left and a Pro am coming up.

ash · Post by **ash** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:24 am

Ever seen a drift boat launch

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:25 am

I hear it's scheduled to drop another 20 feet this Fall.

ash · Post by **ash** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:29 am

Dont look to us, Orroville has no ramps in the water and Folsom is down to the low water ramp and the whole lake is 5 mph.

The incoming tide on the Delta is faster then the outgo as the pumps in Tracy are running overtime!

I say let them open up the Lake Mead water transfer to DVL and let the Clam bake begin!

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:50 am

i heard the same thing Kevin. Lets pray for rain or we might be holding float tube tournies.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:21 am

The ramp is going to be extended to accomodate another 20 ft. drop. It's supposed to drop 20 feet in the next few months.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:45 am

Come rejoice with the boys Brian....

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:52 am

release your load

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:02 am

I released my load all over DVL the last 3 days... oh so stinky. looks like unc found a much needed gem sat night.. thats rad.

Bass Pro Shopper · Post by **Bass Pro Shopper** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:22 am

Brian Linehan wrote:The ramp is going to be extended to accomodate another 20 ft. drop. It's supposed to drop 20 feet in the next few months.

If that's the case, can they please install an escalator to the top of the ramp as well?!

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:58 am

Seriously...However, it's nothing compared to Calville Bay

Kwin · Post by **Kwin** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:56 pm

SUMMER
increased h2o temp=higher metabolism=skinny fish
lower h2o level=crowding (increased competition)=stress &skinny fish
many fish being caught & released=poor handling & increased numbers stressed
poor handling(removal of slime coat)=sores
increased stress=sores
bacterial infections=sores (usually Aeromonas or Psuedomonas)
increased water temp= allows bacterial infections to persist/grow

this is how nature thins the herd when the carrying capacity has been exceeded. Disease is a method of population control to keep things more or less in balance. As long as hundreds of fish don't die en mass, it's nothing out of the ordinary. As far as the comment regarding LMBV, last I checked during school, there was thought that LMBV might be latent in bass and stress brought on the clinical disease. Much like the common cold may be in humans (although colds are rarely fatal.) Viruses are a quirky bunch & a good one doesn't kill it's host. LMBV outbreaks usually occured in the summer with poor water quality conditions present. Water quality should not be an issue at DVL. If anyone wants a good nap I have plenty of papers that cover the dynamics of disease(s) in a fish population, that I could fax you.

Quinn Granfors
Environmental Scientist
Diamond Valley Lake

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:08 pm

actually yeah i would like to read up on it Kwin... send me a pm and ill give you my fax number. Ive been out on DVL 3 days a week for the last month and we have been boating easily over 50 fish a day and 1/3 of them have these sores. Its not a just a few here and there im catching a dozen fish a day that have this on them. Next trip i take to DVL i could put a few in my well if you care to see them. I love that lake and it worries me.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:13 pm

kwin you have a pm

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:01 pm

Hey Quinn, do you think that the lower water could have an impact. Can it cause stress?

Thanks Quinn

JKitz · Post by **JKitz** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:36 pm

Brian Linehan wrote:Hey Quinn, do you think that the lower water could have an impact. Can it cause stress?

Thanks Quinn

From Kwin:

"lower h2o level=crowding (increased competition)=stress &skinny fish "

Brian, h20 is water.. Looks like a little too much sun on that dome of yours!!

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:45 pm

Doh! My bad. Sorry.

Obi-Hub · Post by **Obi-Hub** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:57 pm

Nah...none of the above...

Rumor has it the scourged and nefarious Hub Spinner

has been seen lurking about at DVL and may have somehow come in contact with the water

Be warned, if you see this shady character, it is always best to head in the other direction

obi

ps. Please be advised, if you receive water from DVL, you might not want to consume it or use it for personal hygiene if he indeed has made contact

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:43 am

thanks kwin... it is a dry read but very informative. Alot of the study seems pure speculation. No cut and dry solutions. I guess the same could be said for viral infections in humans.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:02 pm

At the DFG Jamboree in July I asked Dwayne Maxwell, of DFG, and Eloise, the DFG biologist for Castaic, about those red sores.
I also asked the Catch and Release people.
They all said the sores were from warm water, which allows a fungus to grow, and bacteria to follow, or vice versa, I can't remember which. Evidently, adding Catch and Release, plus Please Release Me, to you livewell in the summer helps the bass get rid of the problem.
The bottom line is it's an annual thing, and cold weather/water kills the buggies and the fish will be okay.
I know I am picky about which fish I kiss in the summer.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:26 pm

yeah i wanted to kiss the 7 1/2 but she was too ugly.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:38 am

some guy wrote:yeah i wanted to kiss the 7 1/2 but she was too ugly.

I heard it was the other way around!

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:48 am

that's probably true! Thanks for the tips on the clear coat Mark. I bounced my crank off of everything and it didnt chip once and the fish ate it! Thanks again

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:53 am

Cool! The best part is the fish ate it. That's the ultimate rush, for sure.
Contratulations.

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:55 am

oh for sure.. nothing like catching big bass on something you made in your garage.

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:32 pm

There are some things all of you can do to help with the problem of sores and red spots on the fish. Yes it is a summer problem and it happens to all lakes. You can do a few things when fishing a tournament. You can use Please release me to help with the slime coat and sores. You can also use catch & release to help calm the fish in the livewell. 1 other thing is to take water bottles and freeze them and drop them in your livewell to keep the water temp down while the fish are in the livewell. Also drain & re fill your livewells during the tournament and add new product in when you do this.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:41 pm

Rae El - a couple of questions regarding your response:

Ray L. wrote:You can use Please release me to help with the slime coat and sores. You can also use catch & release to help calm the fish in the livewell.

Are these two products approved to be used together? What would the proper dosage be?

Also drain & re fill your livewells during the tournament and add new product in when you do this.

All the instructions I've seen indicate that the livewells should be filled in the morning (while the water is coolest) and not refilled during the day. The best logic I've seen to explain this is that the fish are typically caught in deeper water during the day, which is significantly cooler than the surface water. It would be difficult to determine exactly how much the new water would need to be cooled (using ice or frozen bottles) to get it to the proper level.

I just want to be sure I take the best care I can, so I want to be sure I fully understand proper livewell management.

Roger

Nlvbassin · Post by **Nlvbassin** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:43 pm

If that's the case, can they please install an escalator to the top of the ramp as well?! :lol

Sounding like Lake Mead. Skinny bass, low water, and heart attack hill for a ramp

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:49 pm

Nlvbassin wrote:Sounding like Lake Mead. Skinny bass, low water, and heart attack hill for a ramp

Pretty much, except the lake is a little smaller, the fish are a little bigger, the heat is a little lower, and the humidity is a bit higher!

Can't wait to get back out on Mead next week though!!!

Roger

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:54 pm

One of the side affects of catching bass from clear deep water with a deep thermocline like DVL is stress caused by pressure changes of more than one atmosphere or deeper than 32 feet.
The bass may appear OK after fizzing, however they have suffered some brain damage. The bass that have brain damaged can no longer successfully feed, they simply don't have the skills to catch enough bait fish anymore and slowly starve.
After several tournaments, there is a higher number of brain damaged bass swimming around that are in poor condition.
I have always said that retarted bass is about all I can catch anymore, so maybe DVL is the place to fish.
Tom

Steve1257 · Post by **Steve1257** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:14 pm

That sounds reasonable Oldschool.Most of the really sad looking fish I catch are around 4.5 but have heads like 6's or 7's.Some are so bad off I'm sure they are going to die.The shorts and smallies seem to be ok.I liked catching them deep in the Winter but I'll stay above 35' now.

SoCalBassAssassin · Post by **SoCalBassAssassin** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:13 pm

hmmmmm The sores sound like a severe case of ick like in aquarium fish. I have had a lot of aquariums over the years, and when the water gets too warm the fish really get stressed. They lose their color, and their scales get all funky. I haven't fished DVL, so I haven't seen those fish, but I agree that heat = stress and bad health in fish.

Saul

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:42 am

I have changed the water at least once in the day for over 15 years and have not lost fish. I just change it and also put a frozen water bottle in along with product to hel pthe fish out. Seems to work very well for me. The fish also seem to be in great shape after a day in the livewell. If you want to know an exact ratio for adding c&r as well as please release me just call Lane. I have gone by the pour theory myself and it has worked well for me for many years.

Lane · Post by **Lane** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:42 pm

I agree with Kwin. Summertime can cull out the weaker fish. In addition to aeromonas and pseudomonas, we see an increase
in flexibacter columnaris. Fish can carry high parasite loads which
make them more susceptable to opportunistic bacterial infections.

It is important that handling the fish be kept to a minimum this time of year, as well as time spent in the livewell. Allowing fish
to thrash around on the carpet is a BIG NO, NO! That is how infections get started, due to removal of the protective slime from the fish. If possible, use an knotless or rubber mesh net to secure the fish.

Tunaman, Ray is right you can mix Please Release Me with the
Catch And Release if you wound a fish or catch one with obvious
infections/sores. Use the usual amount of Catch And Release, then
dose with Please Release Me. You can even put a pinch directly on the wound or sore.It will not hurt the fish to use both of them together. Please Release Me contains medications that can help fish with external infections. Catch And Release contains the disinfectants that control the spread of viruses, mussel veligers. Catch And Release also removes ammonia which is more toxic in
warmer water. You don't need to use Please Release Me year round, only when needed.

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:51 pm

Thanks as always for the great information Lane.

Roger

Lane · Post by **Lane** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:13 pm

Glad to help! Those green backs are pretty cool, which is why we
love to catch them.

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:52 pm

What make our local SoCal clear water deep reservoirs different than most lakes is the depth the largemouth bass suspend during the summer and winter months. DVL, Castaic and Casitas have deep water population of bass nearly year around. Deep water being 50 to 60 feet during the summer period. Largemouth bass can, IMO, withstand about 1 atmosphere of pressure change without visual harm, that is about 32 feet of water.
Even though you maybe only fishing at say 35 feet, the bass holding at 60 can easily move up to the lure and strike it, then you fight the bass to the surface, a total depth change 60 feet or nearly 2 atmospheres. The basses airbladder extends into it's throat and can't keep it's self upright. The common practice is to needle or fizz the bass so it can swim upright.
If you are a tournament fisherman and the bass is good size, you put it in the livewell for a few hours. The bass goes for a boat ride, gets weighed and then released. This bass looks good, swims off OK under it's own power and considered a heathly released bass.
Is it? More than likely the bass is a swimming zombie, partially brain dead, unable to feed successfully and dies slowly.
I believe that is what happened to some of the bass being caught in DVL.
The only solution is letting the angler weigh and record the bass and release it quickly by lowering it back down to the depth it was hooked. With $$$ involved, there isn't enough trust between contestants without impartial whitness. The bottom line is a percentage of bass die as a result of our deep water fishing.
Tom

some guy · Post by **some guy** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:31 pm

That is dead on. With the amount of derbies held at DVL we are just ruining a good thing. People will be blind to it for another few years.

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