"Top Stick" Pro Circuit

C J · Post by **C J** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:20 am

Alright people, Iâ€™ve got a couple of questions for ya. Iâ€™ve been talking to John about setting up a National Bass West tournament circuit in the vein of the â€œTop Gunâ€

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:36 am

If you want to do something different, then stick with the no back seater.

Ray L. · Post by **Ray L.** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:57 am

1 in 6 payout. Co Angler would be great and also I think it would work well if the co could catch a couple of fish to go with the weight. Say maybe 3 fish limit for them. Also You would have to have some kind of schedule so guys could work around other schedule's.I am fine with entry in to all. Although the way I am fishing lately I do not think I would even make the cut to be invited. I also think 2 day for each tournament would be better. I think 1 day anyone can get lucky.

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Thu May 04, 2006 12:51 pm

Where do I send my deposit?

--------------------------------------------

Pro-Am format - Yes
Co Anglers - Yes (make it lucrative for them to fish).
Am entry - $125
Shared weight - yes
Field = 40 participants
$200 (4 events) non refundable deposit to ensure participation. Deposit discount to Pro if they sign up with an AM
Mystery lake for TOC or at least one regular event

kickerken · Post by **kickerken** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:02 pm

This sounds very good to me as I have looking for something to start my pro career somewere. As an amature at WON I was looking to step up. I have mixed fealings about that side and could go eather way.

................ thanks for the good idea,Kickerken

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:07 pm

The "Pro's" in socal that you will need to fill the field would probably want a higher than $200.00 entry fee. If you can get the top prize to the $10,000.00 range, it should eliminate the hesitation for the boaters to share their info. Limit the field to 75 boats, and pay the top 10. Shared weight is the only way to go. My .02 Rick G.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:15 pm

I like it and I will probably start fishing again if the schedule happens to work around my kids' stuff.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:16 pm

I like it and I will probably start fishing again if the schedule happens to work around my kids' stuff.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:17 pm

I like it and I will probably start fishing again if the schedule happens to work around my kids' stuff.

MCSPIN · Post by **MCSPIN** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:34 pm

If Diamond Valley is included in the schedule, I would be out because of the motor on my boat.

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Thu May 04, 2006 1:53 pm

Gary, come see me. Rick G.

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:16 pm

You can name a lot of names but it is pure speculation. Here is a chance to prove it. To me the best is determined not by a one lake circuit but by several lakes. I've said this before and some of the "old school" guys remember that we never got to fish the same lake twice during a season. So here is the opportunity to prove just how good you are. The SoCal "Top Stick" will have bragging rights...at least for that year.

We want to put out a tour that will carefully work around the other things going on and give you a fair, honest and quality tour for the Southern California angler. A tour that will have good payback and the highest competition around. We are still working on the format but so far the things I have seen look real good. Lets see some more suggestions and if you don't want to post them you can always e-mail them to us or send us a pm.
John Barron

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:33 pm

We are doing this circuit, it's not just a thought.
jb

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:37 pm

I'm in!! I've got some Dead Money left.
Guy Williams
Team Dead Money

Gerryjig · Post by **Gerryjig** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:03 pm

I'm in for sure......even if I have to borrow a boat for DV. I'm not too worried about how they'll be run as I know CJ and John will put the best and fairest TOP-STICK together, non-boaters or not.....I do have only one question, where do I send my $ and will this take place this year or next?

DL · Post by DL » Thu May 04, 2006 4:47 pm

I'm in. You tell me the rules and I will play. Although I will have to borrow a boat if DVL gets on the schedule. Great ideas from the minds at National Bass West are never far off!!

Pete Marino · Post by **Pete Marino** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:18 pm

My vote is for NO BACK SEATERS. BOATERS ONLY!!!!
If there are back seaters out there that want to fish they can fish team stuff, club stuff or Stren or WON ProAMs.

These Events should be EXCLUSIVE and different from other events...period peiod period!!!!

The 7 fish deal (5 for the boater and 2 for the nonboater)is a horrible idea as well.
I'm sorry if this offends any nonboaters out there, I just think having events where there is just the PRO in the boat is an AWESOME idea. They would be a blast!!!!
I dont think whether a pro cashes a check or not should depend on if his non boater catches his 2 keepers. Nor do I think it should be "shared" weight because WON already does that. I dont know how many times I've heard a "Pro" say "if it wasnt for my AAA catching that big fish or those key fish, I wouldnt have won the event." I know I may sound "bitter" but maybe I am because I've only had a few AAA's ever help out. A few have, but most have either slept, got in the way, lost fish, or complained. Guy Willaims personally had a AAA that cost him a very high finish at a ProAm because the AAA. I had this AAA sleep in my boat for 2 1/2 hours at Mead once. Another guy did nothing but eat ALL day and when I called for the net 2 different times he couldnt get the net because he had frickin Yams all over his hands. Last year at Havasu my day 1 AAA did NOTHING but watch me sight fish all day when he could have been fishing "outside" like we had talked about at the dock.
My day 2 AA was Carolyn Capparelli, she was awesome to have in the boat because she tried hard all day. She caught a 3lb smallmouth fishing outside then at the end of the day I let her catch a smallie on a bed that culled her previous fish because she tried so hard all day. She was one of my AAA exceptions but most have been opposite of that.

I also don't think it should be a Boater/ Nonboater individual weight format because of "backseating" issues that could arrise.

CJ... the best idea is to have it the way you did last year. It was original, fresh, a nice change and a hell of alot of fun!
I personally would love it and wouldnt mind having to commit to the entire series with a deposit for each.

CJ and John....MAKE IT HAPPEN BOYS!!!!! I guarantee you would have good turnouts at each event..probably 25-40...maybe more.

Just my 2 pennies!!!

Pete

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:41 pm

or I have an 20i that's up for sale soon.
jb

Dennis S. · Post by **Dennis S.** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:44 pm

I agree with Pete 100%!!!!

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:57 am

Sounds exciting. How about a no prefish period, so it truly is a level playing field? I know there that would be hard to enforce, but it sure would bring the cream to the top.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:00 am

Maybe a polygraph could enforce a no prefish rule.

Eric Wong · Post by **Eric Wong** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:29 am

Sign me up!!! I've thoroughly enjoyed the team stuff over the past 10 years, but really was looking for something unique and fresh locally (family commitments prevent me from doing the Pro Tours). Then the Top Gun tournaments of last year came out, which were incredible. What a great concept!! Whatever the format, this Top Stick deal will be awesome!

Like Pete, I personally like the Pros only format, just because it eliminates all the other factors that Pete mentioned. It's just a pure one-on-one, Pro vs. Pro tournament. Having said that, I know that John and CJ's concern will be launching 40, 50, 70 (whatever the field) boats with single anglers.

I helped launch the boats at the Top Gun Castaic last year, as well as a few other anglers. That system worked pretty well. If a certain number of us would commit to helping launch the others, this could work great!!!

Whatever format John/CJ come up with, I'm still fishing because there will be no "cherry picking", and it will show who the true versatile, adaptable and talented anglers are!!

Eric

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:25 am

From NBW point of view, less anglers=less exposure=less sponcers. Also the more $ involved, the more temptation there is for dishonest people to fish, especially if they are by themselves. The concept is great, but to get the numbers needed there needs to be a Pro Boater/Non Boater format. Keep fishing Pete and sooner or later you will get a good AAA. There are already enough 25-35 boat team events. Rick G.

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:07 am

Good point Rick. I know I will commit to them all as well as at least 5-7 of my friends. I especially like the no pre-fish idea. It gives an unfair advantage to the teams who live a.) close b.)don't have jobs c.) cheaters. The only reason why tournament organizations got rid of the 1 week no prefish rule was because of scheduling problems. Bring back the 1 week off limits and we will see who the "real" best fishermen are GUARANTEED!

Rick G · Post by **Rick G** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:22 am

Just think how good DVL would be with a week cutoff. Great idea! Rick G.

C J · Post by **C J** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:35 am

Lemme try to answer a few of the questions that I can so far. I would definetly institute an off-limits period of one week. We will have polygraph access for these events, no one is going to get away with cheating in any way on my watch. The back seater issue is one of the things I'm looking for feedback on, good points from both sides. The circuit could kick off in Fall '06 or Spring '07, there will be plenty of notice for you guys to schedule, sign-up, etc. There is a strong possibility DVL will be considered, but as a banned-motor owner myself, I promise to take the lakes limitations into consideration. Oh, and no Yams, candied or any other kind will be allowed in any competitors boat, Got your back Pete.
Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming. I promise all responses will have weight in our decisions.
CJ

fishinman · Post by **fishinman** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:25 am

I like the pro only format! If there is no Diamond Valley tournament I'm in (presign)!!! Why yiou might ask. Its too far and I my self like many other good ,talented and Great sticks do not care to spend another 12,000 dollars to replace a perfectly good functioning outboard so we can fish a single lake!!!!!

DB · Post by DB » Fri May 05, 2006 11:50 am

I fished one of the Top Gun tourneys and it was awesome...

I am all for the one angler per boat with no co-angler, I helped launch the other competitors boats in that past Top Gun tourney and I would volunteer again in a heartbeat, as I know many of my friends would. It would be a unique format and I think that is what everyone is looking for.

Bob Lindgren

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:15 pm

I'll fish as a non boater and commit for the series...If not I would think on honor that we could all just go fishing and forgo prefish for the true level field. We all have our safety nets on these waters { folks who give us inside dope on different lakes} and even if an angler was for warned I've not seen it make to much of a differance and I wouldn't think we will have an issue we just want to have our own Elite 50?....What do you think John? Nice to split gas money but then If I was to fish alone I would be happiest

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:19 pm

Chris, love the 1 week cut off, love the polygraph, and you know as well as I do that you would have to include Diamond Valley. Even more so than usual because Perris is way too small to hold tournaments on these days. If people don't have the right engines, too bad. I know that sounds harsh, but it might be time to upgrade if your engine is that old. Honestly, I don't know a single person who fishes tournaments who doesn't have an engine that would work. That is, except you. However, I see you getting something new in the very near future. Call me Nostrildamus

hippie · Post by **hippie** » Sun May 07, 2006 12:01 pm

I'm in for boater only,and yes there is still alot of people who don't have rated motors but owell iguess their out

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Sun May 07, 2006 2:03 pm

Maybe DVL doesn't have to be in the rotation.
I know Rick and Kyle will be pissed because of all the money they would have won

, but there are lots of other lakes that aren't restrictive.
I don't see how you'll have a true TOC, if guys who don't have compliant motors can't compete.

kalalex · Post by **kalalex** » Sun May 07, 2006 2:51 pm

You can count me in too,,,either way,,pro only or pro & AAA.
I know there are lots of Pro-Ams out there but they are not truly So-Cal. I wanted to try Pro-Ams as an AAA but that still required pretty big commitment because they are held at places far from So-Cal.
Either way,,,I'm still IN.

{{{{{{{{{{{ When is it happening ??? }}}}}}}}}}

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:14 pm

It would be a Pro/AM draw event. A draw event takes care of:
1. a lot of the possible cheating issues
2. boat launching issues
3. more exposure (more sponsor money)

Now I haven't thought thisall the way through but I see Pete's point about shared weight. I have fish a number of pro-ams (both shared and not shared weight). And as an Am I hate tournaments durring the spawn. When it's not a shared weight tournament I have been blocked off from a lot of good fishing opportunities. Especially when the Pro is the father of one of the AMs and that Am was behind me in the points race. Maybe some sort of shared and non shared weight. I haven't figured out how to make that work but it could be a 4 fish each limit with side pots for shared weight or maybe even four categories
PRO Champion
AM Champion
Best Guide (Pro/AM Shared)
Best Angler to have in the Back Seat (Am/Pro Shared).
With computers it shouldn't be too hard to do. With an 8 fish limit (4 + 4) that should take care of any crazy DFG things that come up.

50 boat max (many of our lakes are pretty tough to fish with 50 tournament boats plus the general public) with priority to
1. Anglers' signing up for all events with a partner
2. Angler's signing up for all events
3. then open it up to fill spots if needed

Mystery Lake
Pull permits for all the lakes fished durring the season for the Championship date and tell everybody it will be at one of the same lakes. Announce the location of the Championship event at the end awards ceremony of the final regular event. This gives folks some time for travel arrangments and if an angler can fish an event at a regular season lake they can surely fish that same lake for a championship.

Championship Format
If the regular season events are Saturday and/or Sunday the Championship should be done exactly the same way. If the season is one day events the Championship should be a one day event. If the seasonal events are two days, so should be the Championship.

one fish wonder · Post by **one fish wonder** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:01 pm

DVL would have to be a part of this. It is to good of a lake not to be!

Brian D. · Post by **Brian D.** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:17 pm

part of the equation.

with a 7 fish limit shared weight. AMs should be able to weigh two of the largest fish in the total limit. This keeps it the fishing fair regardless of the fishing season.

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:20 pm

I think it's a great idea, something different for Southern California but to make it a true "Pro" event the money has to be there. $10K for first place is not unrealistic for these events so precautions MUST be put in place. I don't believe that any of you would cheat but there are people that will. Lie detectors or Voice Stress Analysis are two ways to keep this from taking place and a Triple A format is another. Put them together it's a home run.

I can tell you some horror stories about Triple A's but I can also tell you some good ones. The shared weight system helps perpetuate our sport and gives some opportunitites to some that would otherwise never have the chance to fish with some of SoCal's best sticks and there are some that I would consider the best on the West Coast and beyond.
jb

John Barron · Post by **John Barron** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:32 pm

I'm not saying DV is in or out but how can you test an angler's skill if you don't throw a real test at him?
jb

Schneider Fishing · Post by **Schneider Fishing** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:46 pm

So let's talk lakes
John how about doing one of those poles here on the site or start another thread and give us some lakes to choose from and vote. Let's pick lakes and times that we don't have to cancel because of weather at certain times of the years.

I like
The Old Lake Perris - November (remember the snow)

Diamond Valley - December
San Vicente - January
Castaic - February
Casitas - March

Championship in May

Guy Williams · Post by **Guy Williams** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:12 pm

How about Silverwood, Puddingstone, Pyramid, Piru, Hodges and the list goes on.
John it don't matter where, how and when because the best angler will win! How about a night session or two also. That would be cool.
Guy Williams
Team Dead Money

Team Davies · Post by **Team Davies** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:16 pm

Let's not forget Lake Isabella

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:34 pm

Diamond Valley, Casitas, Cachuma (if full), San Vicente, Perris (only if full), Castaic, Lopez, Hodges. This is my mix of lakes.

mark poulson · Post by **mark poulson** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:20 am

That guy who protected his son's water happened to me, too. Sucks.

C J · Post by **C J** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:14 am

The lake possibilities are pretty endless, especially if it turns out to be a Fall circuit where the ski/pleasure boat crowds are gone at some of our smaller lakes. As far as night events and such, we do have a Summer Piru Night circuit scheduled with dates to be announced soon. Thanks for all the responses, its cool to see that this is the kind of event you guys want to see happen. And Brian, Nostrildamos had me spitting coffee at my monitor, Thanks for the morning levity....

Kelly Ripa · Post by **Kelly Ripa** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:34 am

Cachuma at Night!

Brian Linehan · Post by **Brian Linehan** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:50 am

That would be AWESOME!!! Great suggestion. You would see over 80 boats for that.

Topwater Terry · Post by **Topwater Terry** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:46 am

of running these tournaments. You know, there are a lot of great ideas here. I still think that it sucks that some people can't go to DV because of non-compliant BS that someone in Sacramento made up, but it's too good of a lake not to have one of your events on. These are my ideas....
1. Make sure people pre-sign for all events, to prevent people from dominating a lake and then not fishing the rest of the season.
2. If you really want it to be unique, and in order to make it a test of who the best pro in So Cal really is, make it just one person in a boat.
3. Cap it at 60 participants.
4. Pay one in six.
5. Have a $200 entry, with a couple of $25 options, like big fish, which pays down three spots, and a top five total weight option, maybe paid either three or five spots. If you paid 50% of the big fish money to first place, based on 60 boats, it would pay $750 to big fish-Bassmaster Elites only pay I think $1000 to big fish!
6. Have them at the best lakes at the best times:
Castaic-October- you had your top gun event there in October, lots of boiling fish that time of year. (just be careful here-everyone and their brother has a TOC out of town that month, so maybe early November might be better).
March-Casitas
April-Cachuma
May-DV.
7. Have one day events, followed later on by a two day TOC with a big prize-maybe 5 or 10 grand!

Either way, sounds like a lot of folks are interested already, good luck, scheduling these events without conflicts will be tough with all the other events going on at seemingly every lake every weekend.
Terry

Tags

Notice